Guild Wars 2

As if the “Rise!” wasn’t enough of a buff to minion masters: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Upcoming-Global-Change-to-Player-Minions/

This sounds really, REALLY amazing for us lol

This is super exciting! I’d like to see how a Vamp MM would do in high end raids/fractals with these changes.

That is indeed an amazing buff to PvE necros.

Minions are still lower damage in PvE than simply performing standardized rotations. I definitely expect that this will benefit PvE minionmancers substantially, but that doesn’t mean you suddenly start running one if you plan on moving through content quickly and efficiently.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Minions are still lower damage in PvE than simply performing standardized rotations. I definitely expect that this will benefit PvE minionmancers substantially, but that doesn’t mean you suddenly start running one if you plan on moving through content quickly and efficiently.

They add a ton of survivability with the condi transfer and vamp procs, as well as a good deal of toughness when traited. Considering we haven’t seen anything but the easiest of raid bosses as well, there may be call for the extra help they might provide. Anyways, it’s too early to tell yet, of course, but it’s certainly something to be excited about.

Wouldn’t that be a nerf for Death Nova?

Well, I started this game as a PvE minion master, guess it’s time to go back to the roots.

I’ve been considering both Curses, and Blood Magic as possible alternatives for Soul Reaping in my PvE reaper build. Never thought I’d be considering Death Magic.

Hmm, time for solo dungeon run

I’m glad to hear these changes. Playing MM will be much more enjoyable in pve now.

Well that’s a big buff for rise…and all my minions….I is a happy necro. Can’t wait to see if this MIGhT in some way transition to PvP or WvW. If so, just imagine…..

Yeah I think we’re going to see some pretty crazy sustain builds with these guys being more resistant to damage. I might finally have to give MM a real go.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Minions are still lower damage in PvE than simply performing standardized rotations. I definitely expect that this will benefit PvE minionmancers substantially, but that doesn’t mean you suddenly start running one if you plan on moving through content quickly and efficiently.

Don’t be like that, think about the positives, rise might become a serious defense tool with this change.

reaper + healing from minios. We gonna be able to just stand in the crowd andtank everything while doing creazy dmg ^^

Holy kitten. 15+

Cool change, no one get too excited because minions are still largely subpar but at least they are usable.

I think nobody really expected MM to suddenly become crazy overpowered or become “meta” because of this change =P

In PvE Mesmers benefit from this change more than any other class anyways, but I think for us it might open up the possibility for some cheeky aggro-control builds for content where that sort of thing can work (stacking Toughness with Flesh of the Master and Corrupter’s Fervor to hold aggro while running full Berserker’s that is).

Something like this maybe: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAodRnM0AN1gd1AebCs3gFqBbqBUBmASBgBQKLuDeCbhA-TxRBABPt/wVK/wTfwDnCAAeCAUq+jZKBJFQEjBA-e

Will they let Bone Minion explosions crit yet?

Bhawb.7408:

Cool change, no one get too excited because minions are still largely subpar but at least they are usable.

Yep, but with a little of AoE healing “Rise!” could make Reapers pretty much immortal in PvE.

Kain Francois.4328:

Will they let Bone Minion explosions crit yet?

They already can. They just naturally have a 4% crit chance. Fury works to boost it, however.

So does this mean Flesh Golem now goes on everybody PvE bar?

nekretaal.6485:

So does this mean Flesh Golem now goes on everybody PvE bar?

Solid point, since he’ll decimate Break Bars with cripple on every hit + CC on active.

nekretaal.6485:

So does this mean Flesh Golem now goes on everybody PvE bar?

Probably unless is for really specific purpose alongside Rise! for reapers. PvE necro in dungeons/raids etc will probably still take two wells but I can see Rise! be the staple and occasionally swapped out for CPC.

Generally an improvement even with fewer Death Novas. I may prefer cast and CD reduction but reduced damage taken from untargeted AoE works.

I’m glad “Rise” might actually be a PVE thing now.

So basically they finally gave in and made the minions work like WoW “pets” ? Cool. Now something similar needs to happen in PvP (with lower reduction of course), then they actually might not die in every other firefield.

This potentially gives some interesting uses to unholy martyr and signet of vampirism, doesn’kitten

I know minions aren’t the strongest option, but they’re great for playing tanky and a lot of fun. I was already planning to make a minion reaper build. This just ensures it will be awesome.

Seems like this would benefit from staff a lot, what with the regen in mark of blood for keeping minions upright.

I prefer to use Transfusion to heal minions over MoB. With axe now 900, staff is not even that helpful for setting targets at range.

Charblaze.6958:

Yep, but with a little of AoE healing “Rise!” could make Reapers pretty much immortal in PvE.

Blighter’s Boon and the fact that precision is scarcely needed to maximize DPS already make Reapers nearly immortal in PvE. “Rise!” will both be a DPS loss and add unnecessary bulk basically anywhere. I can’t even foresee it being useful in raids (unless you’re bad and want to facetank mechanics you should be avoiding); you didn’t need to mitigate even close to that much damage in the first encounter.

Don’t get me wrong, this is a really cool change, I just want to make sure our community doesn’t start bringing minions everywhere thinking they’re awesome only to draw flak because they’re still bad.

How much less DPS do minions actually bring compared to, say, Well of Suffering, over a long fight? The well deals high damage for 6 seconds every 35 seconds, while minions keep doing damage with no cooldown. And the guaranteed projectile finishers from bone fiend and flesh wurm might actually be useful now, for a few extra burn stacks.

And I assume this change would make Blood Fiend easily our highest dps healing skill, when the heal isn’t needed, putting it above SoV.

Captain Unusual.9163:

How much less DPS do minions actually bring compared to, say, Well of Suffering, over a long fight? The well deals high damage for 6 seconds every 35 seconds, while minions keep doing damage with no cooldown. And the guaranteed projectile finishers from bone fiend and flesh wurm might actually be useful now, for a few extra burn stacks.

And I assume this change would make Blood Fiend easily our highest dps healing skill, when the heal isn’t needed, putting it above SoV.

I’d be interested to know the comparison between Lich and Flesh Golem over long fights, Lich would need to be a 7k DPS increase over its duration (no buffs) to beat out Flesh Golem, roughly speaking. But I doubt other minions would out DPS, their damage is ~200 DPS unbuffed, so they definitely lose out to Well of Suffering.

Flesh Golem also takes off a lot of breakbar (at least on Vale Guard) or ~2 stacks of defiance. Better option than Chilled to the Bone, I’d argue.

Meanwhile, Flesh Golem still hasn’t received swimming lessons.

Another problem with minions is they are still balanced off exotic, not ascended.

Bhawb.7408:

Another problem with minions is they are still balanced off exotic, not ascended.

So, what should they have like 220 dps instead?

Pretty much. But they already scale really poorly, having them left behind by the ascended power creep is just piling on that.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Charblaze.6958:

Yep, but with a little of AoE healing “Rise!” could make Reapers pretty much immortal in PvE.

Blighter’s Boon and the fact that precision is scarcely needed to maximize DPS already make Reapers nearly immortal in PvE. “Rise!” will both be a DPS loss and add unnecessary bulk basically anywhere. I can’t even foresee it being useful in raids (unless you’re bad and want to facetank mechanics you should be avoiding); you didn’t need to mitigate even close to that much damage in the first encounter.

Don’t get me wrong, this is a really cool change, I just want to make sure our community doesn’t start bringing minions everywhere thinking they’re awesome only to draw flak because they’re still bad.

Thank you captain obvious? If you have defensive stats and traits Raise! has no meaning, but if you have Raise! you can go full offensive.

Minions have some interesting interactions with raid mechanics. They contribute to the body count of the contracting orange AoE and they body block the damaging blue orbs giving the invulnerability boon to the vale guardian. With all the AoE heal spam you had a dozen of shamblings at any time. Another interesting interaction is the stacking toughness with death magic so you may keep the aggro and lead a boss with zero stats investment. Finally, if one guy allows the other 9 to DPS without hindrances even senseless facetanking may have a place, but I don’t like or approve this idea. Raise! in the presence of AoE heals allows you to build an army of minions and have all the defense you ever need with the investment of only one utility slot.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never thought or said that MM are the future of PvE, I just wanted to point out some interesting interactions of a specific skill in a specific context.

If you are wondering where all the harshness comes from: you replied in a really condescending manner, building a strawman of unfounded assumptions and arbitrary placed “MM propaganda” words in my mouth.

Charblaze.6958:

If you have defensive stats and traits Raise! has no meaning, but if you have Raise! you can go full offensive.

You already can, though. Reaper is in the unique position where it’s super bulky with Blighter’s Boon and does solid DPS. You wouldn’t have taken Reaper’s Onslaught anyway since Dagger does comparable damage to a buffed RS1 and GS2 spam under 50% is better than both.

Charblaze.6958:

If you are wondering where all the harshness comes from: you replied in a really condescending manner, building a strawman of unfounded assumptions and arbitrary placed “MM propaganda” words in my mouth.

Err, nope! I actually think you assumed the condescension and such was there when, in fact, it was not. I even specifically put my second paragraph there to ensure it was clear that I wasn’t trying to rain on anyone’s parade.

well now i cant spam posion fields in pve

It’s a huge buff to the 95% of the players who don’t care about their party composition beyond things that outright don’t work in select dungeons. This will make being a minion master in crucible of eternity and fractals a LOT easier.

This won’t make a difference to speed running. speed running is as meta as it gets composition wise, and minion master will never have a place in that (not like it really matters).

striker.3704:

It’s a huge buff to the 95% of the players who don’t care about their party composition beyond things that outright don’t work in select dungeons. This will make being a minion master in crucible of eternity and fractals a LOT easier.

This won’t make a difference to speed running. speed running is as meta as it gets composition wise, and minion master will never have a place in that (not like it really matters).

I feel this is an extremely concise and correct estimate of how things will go in the long run.

Personally I love Minions and plan on running around with as many of the puppy things as I can when I’m solo. If I want to speed run with the 31337 then I’ll look up something on metabattle and turn off party chat until the dungeon is over so I can avoid the way every speed run team I’ve ever been on has talked to one another.

Given the attitude in your posts, it’s no wonder you’ve had such poor experiences with experienced groups using meta builds in dungeons! I’ve been doing it for years and I can assure you that if you avoid the groups that require ridiculous things and join just groups asking for “experienced” you’ll have no trouble with attitudes 9 out of 10 times. I’ve pubbed as a Necro for longer than I can remember, and most of the time it goes really well and the runs are pretty darned fast assuming you don’t use totally terrible builds.