Guild Wars 2

I’ve been wondering if there are any hybrid builds floating around out there that utilize Sinister stats to create an “effective” hybrid power/condi build. I know it won’t be ideal, but it strikes me that running scepter/dagger with axe/warhorn on swap instead of staff could be an kitten load of fun; with strong, effective conditions on one, and a fair bit of burst and retaliation to overcome those situations your condi’s can’t.
If anybody knows one, or has any tips on details on making one, post below!

Axe horn don’t synergize very well. Would go d/h instead.

Its A/WH because that is what hybrids use. That said, I have never been a fan of hybrid necro, except when Dhuumfire was on crit.

Yeah but why does axe even count as hybrid…. because it cause vuln on auto? Meh, feel like the dps, life force regen and immobilize make dagger win everytime… only time I take axe is on a pure glass dps build and I pretty much never press 1 since I time it out well enough I can just use 3 2 swap to ds lb lb lb axe 2 and back to d/h.

Dagger hits faster and harder probably proccing barbed precision more…. and even on a hybrid build are you really pressing one often enough for the vuln to be a reliable cover condi?

That immobile would give wells more reliability too no?

NeXeD.3042:

Yeah but why does axe even count as hybrid…. because it cause vuln on auto? Meh, feel like the dps, life force regen and immobilize make dagger win everytime… only time I take axe is on a pure glass dps build and I pretty much never press 1 since I time it out well enough I can just use 3 2 swap to ds lb lb lb axe 2 and back to d/h.

Dagger hits faster and harder probably proccing barbed precision more…. and even on a hybrid build are you really pressing one often enough for the vuln to be a reliable cover condi?

It is used because of Axe 2, and its AA, afaik, plus the range. Also now Axe finishes its AA faster than dagger will, you will get a tiny bit more attacks overall with Axe’s auto. And all of that is basically because you rely on on-crit condition procs to be “hybrid”.

Bhawb.7408:

NeXeD.3042:

Yeah but why does axe even count as hybrid…. because it cause vuln on auto? Meh, feel like the dps, life force regen and immobilize make dagger win everytime… only time I take axe is on a pure glass dps build and I pretty much never press 1 since I time it out well enough I can just use 3 2 swap to ds lb lb lb axe 2 and back to d/h.

Dagger hits faster and harder probably proccing barbed precision more…. and even on a hybrid build are you really pressing one often enough for the vuln to be a reliable cover condi?

It is used because of Axe 2, and its AA, afaik, plus the range. Also now Axe finishes its AA faster than dagger will, you will get a tiny bit more attacks overall with Axe’s auto. And all of that is basically because you rely on on-crit condition procs to be “hybrid”.

Axe is faster? Since when? You sure? I know you can make it faster by some fancy weapon stowing…. but normally I’m pretty sure dagger is still hitting more often and none of the on crit sigils have a cooldown low enough for it to matter that much, I guess you could be proccing them more at range… seems to be the only possible reasoning I can see.

Bhawb.7408:

It is used because of Axe 2, and its AA, afaik, plus the range.

I use the Axe in a hybrid but definitely not for its AA. And honestly, if I use all the other skills whenever they are off cd I’ll rarely ever get to auto attack anyway.

NeXeD.3042:

Axe is faster? Since when? You sure? I know you can make it faster by some fancy weapon stowing…. but normally I’m pretty sure dagger is still hitting more often …

According to wikipedia the full AA chain of dagger is 2.1 sec for 4 hits, and the axe needs 0.95 sec for 2 hits.
I haven’t tested it with that exact precision but it seems about right to me.

Bhawb.7408:

And all of that is basically because you rely on on-crit condition procs to be “hybrid”.

You’re right, depending on the type of hybrid build you want to use, Barbed Precision will contribute to your damage to some extent. And Ghastly Claws coupled with other attacks like Locust Swarm can actually ramp up a good amount of stacks, especially with sinister gear.
However, what you need to understand when you try to make a hybrid necro work is that unlike other classes you simply don’t have a weapon that does both direct and condition damage equally well like the warrior’s sword for example. Instead you need to pick a condition weapon and a power weapon, and then layer attacks in a way that makes conditions tick on your target while you follow up with direct damage.
Death Shroud innately works this way already, even more so if you trait for Dhuumfire and/or Terror. In a way it works as a natural bridge when you’re transitioning from a condi to a power weapon or the other way around.
So the fact that the axe or dagger aren’t doing any condition damage on their own doesn’t really matter, because usually you still have conditions from DS and your other set ticking until you swap back to them.

flow.6043:

Bhawb.7408:

It is used because of Axe 2, and its AA, afaik, plus the range.

I use the Axe in a hybrid but definitely not for its AA. And honestly, if I use all the other skills whenever they are off cd I’ll rarely ever get to auto attack anyway.

NeXeD.3042:

Axe is faster? Since when? You sure? I know you can make it faster by some fancy weapon stowing…. but normally I’m pretty sure dagger is still hitting more often …

According to wikipedia the full AA chain of dagger is 2.1 sec for 4 hits, and the axe needs 0.95 sec for 2 hits.
I haven’t tested it with that exact precision but it seems about right to me.

Bhawb.7408:

And all of that is basically because you rely on on-crit condition procs to be “hybrid”.

You’re right, depending on the type of hybrid build you want to use, Barbed Precision will contribute to your damage to some extent. And Ghastly Claws coupled with other attacks like Locust Swarm can actually ramp up a good amount of stacks, especially with sinister gear.
However, what you need to understand when you try to make a hybrid necro work is that unlike other classes you simply don’t have a weapon that does both direct and condition damage equally well like the warrior’s sword for example. Instead you need to pick a condition weapon and a power weapon, and then layer attacks in a way that makes conditions tick on your target while you follow up with direct damage.
Death Shroud innately works this way already, even more so if you trait for Dhuumfire and/or Terror. In a way it works as a natural bridge when you’re transitioning from a condi to a power weapon or the other way around.
So the fact that the axe or dagger aren’t doing any condition damage on their own doesn’t really matter, because usually you still have conditions from DS and your other set ticking until you swap back to them.

k, even so wouldn’t dagger still be optimal for damage given you are in range?

NeXeD.3042:

k, even so wouldn’t dagger still be optimal for damage given you are in range?

Well, yeah. That’s why dagger is the PvE weapon of choice for power builds.
But in PvP it depends.
Axe definitely has a better burst with Ghastly Claws. So if I just compare the 2.25 sec channel of that with the 2.1 sec AA sequence of dagger I’ll not only get more direct damage with axe but also more Barbed procs.
If you are looking at a longer time interval then dagger will easily overtake the axe. But then you have to ask youself: are people going to stay in dagger range for that long? Do I actually want to auto attack this long or am I more likely to use other skills as well? And how many? Enough so I’d actually have Ghastly Claws off cd again if I was using the axe instead?
Also, you have to take utility into consideration. Like, what is your offhand weapon, what utility skills do you use, or what traits synergize better with each weapon setup.
For example: I use Axe Mastery, but with a dagger I’d obviously choose Chill of Death instead. So what is the better option here? The burst potential might actually shift in favor of the dagger if you can get someone below 50% in the right moment. But is the Spinal Shiver proc a better boon strip than Unholy Feast?
Anyway, you see where I’m getting at. It’s more of a matter of how you incorporate certain skills into your build rather than comparing just the damage of the two weapons.

Indeed. Well stated Flow, and in this age of boon sharing and AoE+AI pets running around, I have to go with Axe myself. Nothing worse that AoE proccing that Spinal Shivers on a Ranger pet or an Illusion. :/

Also, how balanced does this Hybrid need to be? Could you lean more towards one or the other instead of trying to go the 50/50 route? I personally think it’s better to, at least counter one type of build instead of being mediocre against them all.

Tman.6349:

Also, how balanced does this Hybrid need to be? Could you lean more towards one or the other instead of trying to go the 50/50 route? I personally think it’s better to, at least counter one type of build instead of being mediocre against them all.

If you go more into any one direction you might as well just finish the job and go full condi or power.

I was mainly referring to traits/utilities instead of stats, ie. taking Axe Mastery instead of Spinal Shivers(for the boonstrip/extra condi, as the conversation we were having.

A hybrid might be able to make a lot of use out of BiP as well vs it’s usefulness in a more specialized build.

Currently, I have a build like this. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBLRdG2IHNV3WajjN83moWogOCCgrN6PoESBqmDA-TRyCABAcCAi4IAc8DAoE9BtqE0YTfCp8bZ1fWa/BSB4nSL-e

The idea behind it being to have situational utility, and two different play styles, that work in tandem with one another while also working independently. I want this to be awesome for pvp, and still be viable for map completion/events in pve. This’ll be my second necro; I played a vampiric well bomber on my first one, and I wanted something different.

The idea being to lay on the conditions through scepter/Signet of Spite, and switch to axe/ds for quick burst. I specced Axe Mastery for the increased damage, since it applies to ds, and I thought it would help with the burst aspect. So conditions, finish with burst.

I’m having trouble deciding on utilities; I feel like BiP is a necessity, since it’s so amazing, and Signet of Undeath will get that lf generation that the scepter lacks; but idk if I’d be better off taking Epidemic/a well for that slot, since I have the axe for lf generation. Signet of Spite is, I feel, awesome for a hybrid build, due to the passive power boost, and the active ability to get a 12% increase in damage for Ghastly Claws/Life Blast because of Target the Weak.

As far as gear, I have a set of unbound sinister exotic armor laying around on my other necromancer; I feel like the stat distribution is perfect. I don’t currently have a way to craft sinister weapons or accessories, but it’s something I want to work on; unless you guys feel Rampager gear would be better? I’m honestly not sure.

It’s a complex thing; obviously a balanced hybrid isn’t going to to be as effective as either a straight power or a straight condi build, but I want to find a point in between that will still be powerful, and fun.

So a couple of the questions I’m still asking myself, after reading all of this, is what should I be using for sigils/runes? I grabbed rune of the thief just for the combo condi damage/precision. Also, on a semi unrelated note, I have been curious about necros and greatswords with HoT coming; does anyone have any clue whether that’s going to be more power or condi oriented, ranged or melee?

So I found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKcDOIgEGLU and it seems to be pretty much exactly what I’m looking for. I made a few tweaks; exotic accessories, 3 zerker, 3 rabid, full rampager gear, rabid scepter/dagger, zerker axe/focus or warhorn…still undecided on that.

Now, from my understanding, Dhuumfire is basically kitten for conditionmancers now, but for how I want to play this character, where I’d stack on the bleeds, switch to axe for the burst, and go into ds for more burst until it’s burned up, it seems like it’d still be good. But idk whether I should take Dhuumfire or Parasitic Contagion. I guess, if I want more damage and am fine with how survivable I am, Dhuumfire? Parasitic Contagion if I am dying a lot? Or is Dhuumfire just Dhumbfire now, and PC is just better by defailt?

Garky.1735:

So I found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKcDOIgEGLU and it seems to be pretty much exactly what I’m looking for. I made a few tweaks; exotic accessories, 3 zerker, 3 rabid, full rampager gear, rabid scepter/dagger, zerker axe/focus or warhorn…still undecided on that.

Keep in mind that that nemesis is known for his love of unconventionnal builds. What he presented is meta only for the triple trouble wurm (condition team mostly).

In dungeon PuGs, this build is outperformed almost everywhere by the DS shredder. Consider using this build only on level 30+ fractal pugs.

For teh weapons :

• S/D as your condition set
• Either A/F OR D/W as your direct dps set.

Do NOT mix axe and warhorn together. If you really want the warhorn, take a dagger in your main hand. Trust me it’s for the better.

Thanks for the reply, Vod; I dropped the warhorn after like 2 seconds. Focus is much better. I myself love unconventional builds, so this one is attractive to me. I’ll end up putting my own spin on it; I plan on using DS as a main, offensive part of my rotation. Would Dhuumfire be worth it, at that point? Or should I just take Parasitic Contagion?

The Shredder build is a straight power build, and I wanted a hybrid; I know it’ll be outperformed in most place, but I like the versatility, and the play style.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBLRhG2IHNN2Wdj3Nc4mAXom6Jg+NDgoN6M4DGBA-ThDFABFrsxXtAAcEA+9BA0rJknUKkjSoM0IkmmAFOBACr+Tc7P6AU+gAolSQSBA2wK-e

This is the one I’ve been using particularly for Silverwastes. There was another thread somewhere on the forum where someone suggested Aristocrat runes. While in Death shroud you can pop a quite large number of might stacks for yourself which gives you quite a lot of extra condition damage. The Aristocrat runes keep those stacks humming along very nicely.

You’ll note a fair bit of rabid gear in the build and that’s largely a holdover from when my necro was in full Rabid. The torment sigil in the warhorn was a random experiment I was running, I’ll probably be replacing that at some point.