Guild Wars 2

So… I’m at a bit of a loss with my Sigil choice for Reaper. I’ve used both Hydromancy and Chilling, and I like them both, but….

Does anyone have any numbers that show one being better than the other? Or at least a more fair comparison than I’ve managed

(Note: Currently I use GS/Staff as a Reaper)

I would say it really depends on how many chill applications you have. If you plan on relying more on the GS chill, go for chilling sigil because the GS attack chill is really low duration. If you have plenty of other chill sources, hydro would almost always be the better option imo. You know when to expect it.

Because hydro will proc on swap and on entering RS. As long as you are doing either every 10s or so them hydro would be better. Especially if youbare in melee.

Chilling 20% duration is only useful in certain instances where you need the extra duration bit as cold shoulder is a thing and already has 20% on there there are a lot of instances its not needed or the opportunity cost over another sigil is to large.

Chill is good if you have lots of chill access from GS.

Hydro is good if you are always in melee range

Ice is good if you are ranged and not using GS

I think I prefer ice for my condition build. Throw it on staff and it gives you an extra 2-4s of chill on every staff rotation. Combined with Staff 3 means you’d get 10s of chill every 9s just from staff.

Hydro for reaper for sure, until they nerf rs so it doesn’t count as a wep swap

This is my build if that helps. Though, it occurs to me, Bitter Chill should make Hydro sigils inflict vuln too, right?

NeXeD.3042:

Hydro for reaper for sure, until they nerf rs so it doesn’t count as a wep swap

I think they won’t since RS is built as hammer It will always count as weapon swap since we can’t wield hammer for it not to proc. They would need to change RS to be GS based for it not to proc when you are wielding GS and pop RS. And because it has been like this from the get go and not changed. I don’t think they will.

Vydahr.4285:

This is my build if that helps. Though, it occurs to me, Bitter Chill should make Hydro sigils inflict vuln too, right?

That is correct!
AoE 3 sec chill, ~1.5k dmg, 3 stacks of vuln every 9 sec

samulihei.1952:

NeXeD.3042:

Hydro for reaper for sure, until they nerf rs so it doesn’t count as a wep swap

I think they won’t since RS is built as hammer It will always count as weapon swap since we can’t wield hammer for it not to proc. They would need to change RS to be GS based for it not to proc when you are wielding GS and pop RS. And because it has been like this from the get go and not changed. I don’t think they will.

Hope not, but I forsee some people complaining about it. I was using an interesting build that would proc hydro, chill of death, that new chill nova, and I would swap between the close to death or the one that casts axe 3, along with fire sigil. Had some hilarious results if everything procced

NeXeD.3042:

samulihei.1952:

NeXeD.3042:

Hydro for reaper for sure, until they nerf rs so it doesn’t count as a wep swap

I think they won’t since RS is built as hammer It will always count as weapon swap since we can’t wield hammer for it not to proc. They would need to change RS to be GS based for it not to proc when you are wielding GS and pop RS. And because it has been like this from the get go and not changed. I don’t think they will.

Hope not, but I forsee some people complaining about it. I was using an interesting build that would proc hydro, chill of death, that new chill nova, and I would swap between the close to death or the one that casts axe 3, along with fire sigil. Had some hilarious results if everything procced

Gotta love power proc-o-mancer <3

Mischief Sigil should be in the discussion if you are Traited with chilling darkness.

nekretaal.6485:

Mischief Sigil should be in the discussion if you are Traited with chilling darkness.

All depends what game mode he’s talking about. That sigil isn’t in pvp.

I say chill for for ranged, hydro for melee, and really both can be used for a reaper build. I used chill for a bit on my scepter for my Condi build, I found the pressure the chill out out as a cover condition, as well as proccing the Vul on chill trait created a lot of trouble for enemy cleansing in WvW.

TheLastNobody.8319:

I say chill for for ranged, hydro for melee

This. Chill is better if you are worried about issues of getting in range, Hydro is better if you are confident you can get/stay in melee often enough.

Holl.3109:

Vydahr.4285:

This is my build if that helps. Though, it occurs to me, Bitter Chill should make Hydro sigils inflict vuln too, right?

That is correct!
AoE 3 sec chill, ~1.5k dmg, 3 stacks of vuln every 9 sec

Are the values really that high for Hydro sigils? kitten . Thought it was only 2 secs of chill and maybe 500 damage.

Also, @Bhawb: I think Hydro will probably be my choice, as I use staff as a point blank aoe weapon just as often as a ranged weapon (regardless of game mode)

Vydahr.4285:

Holl.3109:

Vydahr.4285:

This is my build if that helps. Though, it occurs to me, Bitter Chill should make Hydro sigils inflict vuln too, right?

That is correct!
AoE 3 sec chill, ~1.5k dmg, 3 stacks of vuln every 9 sec

Are the values really that high for Hydro sigils? kitten . Thought it was only 2 secs of chill and maybe 500 damage.

Also, @Bhawb: I think Hydro will probably be my choice, as I use staff as a point blank aoe weapon just as often as a ranged weapon (regardless of game mode)

Hydrodynamcy can crit and is effected by all damage modifiers. Those numbers are accurate and can be higher as well. Also its a base 2s chill but reaper has a baseline 20% chill duration so the chill lasts 2.4s anyways. can be higher depending on rune and sigil.

Sigmoid.7082:

Vydahr.4285:

Holl.3109:

Vydahr.4285:

This is my build if that helps. Though, it occurs to me, Bitter Chill should make Hydro sigils inflict vuln too, right?

That is correct!
AoE 3 sec chill, ~1.5k dmg, 3 stacks of vuln every 9 sec

Are the values really that high for Hydro sigils? kitten . Thought it was only 2 secs of chill and maybe 500 damage.

Also, @Bhawb: I think Hydro will probably be my choice, as I use staff as a point blank aoe weapon just as often as a ranged weapon (regardless of game mode)

Hydrodynamcy can crit and is effected by all damage modifiers. Those numbers are accurate and can be higher as well. Also its a base 2s chill but reaper has a baseline 20% chill duration so the chill lasts 2.4s anyways. can be higher depending on rune and sigil.

So is that number without critting? As in, say, a typical 2375 power build?

I’ve seen hydro crit for 3k at most in WvW.
Usualy numbers are about 2.2k crits and 1k non crits. Chill should be around 3 seconds with all the reaper traits associated with it

IMO hydro is always better

Agreed, love hydro

Thanks guys. I kinda figured Hydro would be better, but it was definitely helpful to ask

Vydahr.4285:

Sigmoid.7082:

Vydahr.4285:

Holl.3109:

Vydahr.4285:

This is my build if that helps. Though, it occurs to me, Bitter Chill should make Hydro sigils inflict vuln too, right?

That is correct!
AoE 3 sec chill, ~1.5k dmg, 3 stacks of vuln every 9 sec

Are the values really that high for Hydro sigils? kitten . Thought it was only 2 secs of chill and maybe 500 damage.

Also, @Bhawb: I think Hydro will probably be my choice, as I use staff as a point blank aoe weapon just as often as a ranged weapon (regardless of game mode)

Hydrodynamcy can crit and is effected by all damage modifiers. Those numbers are accurate and can be higher as well. Also its a base 2s chill but reaper has a baseline 20% chill duration so the chill lasts 2.4s anyways. can be higher depending on rune and sigil.

So is that number without critting? As in, say, a typical 2375 power build?

6~900 before damage mods usually. The chill can get up to a max of 4s but on reaper it has a base of 2.4 because of the innate 20% bonus to duration they get.

Glad we could help

I loved Hydro before. Now it’s almost a no brainer with Reaper+Bitter Chill.

BTW, is it the 23rd yet?

In pvp and wvw your always better off taking a sigil that applies a condition with no exceptions. People can cleanse a condition making your extra duration worthless, another application means you go through another cleanse. If you feel like you have enough chill application and don’t want the extra one with hydro, take a different sigil unrelated to chill.

Keep in mind that each geomancy/hydro/enfeeble counts as a hit that removes blind as well

On GS I’m partial to sigil of chilling and sigil of ice. The 30% chance to proc can set up the third hit of the auto attack. The 20% increased duration is also awesome for all the other chill sources you have.
Honestly sigil of hydromancy should only compete with the sigil of ice. Both are additional sources of chilling, the difference is dependant on how you use your chills. I’d honestly say hydromancy is the better defensive one, and ice is the better offensive. You should always use the sigil of chilling if you’re running a lot of chill applying skills.

No Contest.

Hydro.

• Does Damage
• AoE
• Chill
• Procs Leeching Automatically when you pair it with Hydro
• Damage scales with your power stat.

striker.3704:

On GS I’m partial to sigil of chilling and sigil of ice. The 30% chance to proc can set up the third hit of the auto attack. The 20% increased duration is also awesome for all the other chill sources you have.
Honestly sigil of hydromancy should only compete with the sigil of ice. Both are additional sources of chilling, the difference is dependant on how you use your chills. I’d honestly say hydromancy is the better defensive one, and ice is the better offensive. You should always use the sigil of chilling if you’re running a lot of chill applying skills.

Eh… maybe in PvE, but not really. Hydro adds an additional chill, predictable rather than random, deals damage when it procs, and if you’re running Condi, geomancy would be better than +20% chill duration, or if you’re running power, air or fire would increase your damage more.

striker.3704:

On GS I’m partial to sigil of chilling and sigil of ice. The 30% chance to proc can set up the third hit of the auto attack. The 20% increased duration is also awesome for all the other chill sources you have.
Honestly sigil of hydromancy should only compete with the sigil of ice. Both are additional sources of chilling, the difference is dependant on how you use your chills. I’d honestly say hydromancy is the better defensive one, and ice is the better offensive. You should always use the sigil of chilling if you’re running a lot of chill applying skills.

Eh… maybe in PvE, but not really. Hydro adds an additional chill, predictable rather than random, deals damage when it procs, and if you’re running Condi, geomancy would be better than +20% chill duration, or if you’re running power, air or fire would increase your damage more.

So for PvE perspectives… Hydro and Force on GS seems the way to go?

Cerbeius.7129:

So for PvE perspectives… Hydro and Force on GS seems the way to go?

Hydro and Fire would probably be better for power dps, if you want to maintain your chill.

Caine.8204:

Cerbeius.7129:

So for PvE perspectives… Hydro and Force on GS seems the way to go?

Hydro and Fire would probably be better for power dps, if you want to maintain your chill.

Force > Fire. Always.

Sigmoid.7082:

Caine.8204:

Cerbeius.7129:

So for PvE perspectives… Hydro and Force on GS seems the way to go?

Hydro and Fire would probably be better for power dps, if you want to maintain your chill.

Force > Fire. Always.

Only when you can guarantee hitting your attacks, which basically only means for PvE. It doesn’t take a whole lot of downtime for Fire to overtake Force for damage.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sigmoid.7082:

Caine.8204:

Cerbeius.7129:

So for PvE perspectives… Hydro and Force on GS seems the way to go?

Hydro and Fire would probably be better for power dps, if you want to maintain your chill.

Force > Fire. Always.

Only when you can guarantee hitting your attacks, which basically only means for PvE. It doesn’t take a whole lot of downtime for Fire to overtake Force for damage.

Force is also good for a tanky bruiser-style soldier build that has little to no critical hit chance. Nice bit of flat boost constantly

Edit: Though, really, it wouldn’t be bad for a Reaper to take both Hydro and Chilling sigils and give up Force (assuming a build like mine)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sigmoid.7082:

Caine.8204:

Cerbeius.7129:

So for PvE perspectives… Hydro and Force on GS seems the way to go?

Hydro and Fire would probably be better for power dps, if you want to maintain your chill.

Force > Fire. Always.

Only when you can guarantee hitting your attacks, which basically only means for PvE. It doesn’t take a whole lot of downtime for Fire to overtake Force for damage.

He did specifically ask about PvE. So yes it would be Hydro and force.

And I got my PvE-answer, thanks! ^^

Yeah, I pretend to play my Reaper on PvE with Hydromancy & Force on the greatsword and with a full set of Runes of Ice in the armor to begin with. I expect it to be really tanky but to punch hard as well. For the secondary weapon set I’m torn between axe/focus, axe/warhorn and staff.

Caine.8204:

striker.3704:

On GS I’m partial to sigil of chilling and sigil of ice. The 30% chance to proc can set up the third hit of the auto attack. The 20% increased duration is also awesome for all the other chill sources you have.
Honestly sigil of hydromancy should only compete with the sigil of ice. Both are additional sources of chilling, the difference is dependant on how you use your chills. I’d honestly say hydromancy is the better defensive one, and ice is the better offensive. You should always use the sigil of chilling if you’re running a lot of chill applying skills.

Eh… maybe in PvE, but not really. Hydro adds an additional chill, predictable rather than random, deals damage when it procs, and if you’re running Condi, geomancy would be better than +20% chill duration, or if you’re running power, air or fire would increase your damage more.

(I’m talking PvP here)
Damage isn’t always the most important thing. Chill is a good condition in PvP thanks to it’so ability to slow down cooldown recovery. Even without it’s damage components it’s useful to any type of necromancer build to some extent, especially reapers.

I think every necro pvp build should take at least one energy in pvp. Need that extra dodge when you don’t have rezbots like Nos. That leaves you with blood, air, hydro or rage for power, or geo, hydro or doom for condi. Fire got a big nerf, and is way worse than hydro now.

yeah but force is 8 G Would Frailty be an alright substitute considering decimate defenses and target the weak? Would a stamina sigil or ice sigil ever be more useful?

Quells.2498:

yeah but force is 8 G Would Frailty be an alright substitute considering decimate defenses and target the weak? Would a stamina sigil or ice sigil ever be more useful?

Stamina is kinda worthless. If you just killed something, you usually don’t need the dodges it gives you.

Quells.2498:

yeah but force is 8 G Would Frailty be an alright substitute considering decimate defenses and target the weak? Would a stamina sigil or ice sigil ever be more useful?

Frailty would be alright, not so much the other two. If you’re running reaper you might as well double down on Hydro and Chilling

PvE>>
So how come, for a Chillomancer, you would not want to take Corruption and stack additional condi (which chill damage scales off of)? Are the stacking sigils not worth it in the long run? I was thinking of Chilling on my focus, Agony on my Scepter and then Corruption and Chilling on my GS/Staff. Is Hydromancy the better one now that RS/DS trigger the sigil? Or would the condi stacks overall end up better once you have it maxed out (which is easy to do with events in PvE)?
Additionally, is pairing those with Grenth runes excessive in applying & maintaining chill?

Quells.2498:

yeah but force is 8 G Would Frailty be an alright substitute considering decimate defenses and target the weak? Would a stamina sigil or ice sigil ever be more useful?

Maybe go run arah p1/p2. That’s 8 gold right there.

You have to remember that chill has a stack limit of 5 and is replaced when a longer chill is applied. Make sure that if your taking chilling that you have the highest condi damage possible. Otherwise hydro is better. If you have bitter chill you end up with a bit more vulnerability on 5 targets. If your running chilling darkness the sigil of mischief could also be an option.

I got about 5k Hydromancy and Ice runes in stash to profit from when Reapers realize that its optimal

I put hydro and ice on the greatsword. The stack limit is small as Dhampyr points out but most of our chills only last 2.5 seconds so I think it’ll break even. Unless of course we have a group/raid full of necros but I don’t ever see that happening and I don’t think other professions can apply as much chill as we do.

Now if only I can decide on a secondary weapon. I have one of everything and seem to swap them out a lot.

Go staff for the chill on 3 and 5. You’ll thank me later when you have a ranged weapon. The other option is sceptre to load them up with your 3

Dhampyr.2813:

You have to remember that chill has a stack limit of 5 and is replaced when a longer chill is applied. Make sure that if your taking chilling that you have the highest condi damage possible. Otherwise hydro is better. If you have bitter chill you end up with a bit more vulnerability on 5 targets. If your running chilling darkness the sigil of mischief could also be an option.

Just wanted to say that this is not how it works. If you apply a longer chill to a capped 5 stack it just does nothing, it doesn’t knocked off shorter chills.

The limit really just needs to go away.

Also hydro is just an AOE around you like geomancy is? and does hydro stack with geomancy?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Dhampyr.2813:

You have to remember that chill has a stack limit of 5 and is replaced when a longer chill is applied. Make sure that if your taking chilling that you have the highest condi damage possible. Otherwise hydro is better. If you have bitter chill you end up with a bit more vulnerability on 5 targets. If your running chilling darkness the sigil of mischief could also be an option.

Just wanted to say that this is not how it works. If you apply a longer chill to a capped 5 stack it just does nothing, it doesn’t knocked off shorter chills.

The limit really just needs to go away.

Also hydro is just an AOE around you like geomancy is? and does hydro stack with geomancy?

Could’ve sworn it worked like that. Means our deadly chill trait just got really bad in groups. Thought one of the reasons they removed the caps on things was so condi uses didn’t hate seeing each other. I don’t think chill should be uncapped, It would be way to strong uncapped.