Guild Wars 2

It is suddenly much clearer to me why everyone else seems to think that spec is OP.

That burst…..

_

Be honest. Is that burst really any different than what thieves can do to people? I bet you can kill a person faster than a necro can with a glass cannon build.

Sword/dagger does really well against necros still BTW.

Your point is? It’s always good to know that someone lost 1v1.

LOL he is the thief most likely…he is upset the necro beat him came here to refill the river of flowing tears….DO NOT WORRY ANET hears you they will fix this soon

Kravick.4906:

Be honest. Is that burst really any different than what thieves can do to people?

Yeah, it was. Thief duels usually come down to who jumps whom and who’s able to stack their damage better. This Necro used her Deathshroud to block my burst regardless of who engaged and then bursted me down so hard I had to blow pretty much everything to escape.

Now, I’m not saying the spec was OP per se. If I decided to leave the fight, there wasn’t a whole lot she could do to stop me from leaving. But running away was pretty much the only counterplay it had.

My point is just it makes a lot more sense to me now why this spec seems OP. It’s really hard to see how to play against something like this. My build even has pretty good condi clear and recovery, but it wasn’t fast enough. If I were an sPvP player I’d probably switch to Runes of Lyssa and save my Basilisk Venom for it, but them’s expensive for PvE.

Nebiros.4801:

LOL he is the thief most likely…he is upset the necro beat him came here to refill the river of flowing tears….DO NOT WORRY ANET hears you they will fix this soon

Chill out, dude, I have a Necro as well and love all my characters equally.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Kravick.4906:

Be honest. Is that burst really any different than what thieves can do to people?

Yeah, it was. Thief duels usually come down to who jumps whom and who’s able to stack their damage better. This Necro used her Deathshroud to block my burst regardless of who engaged and then bursted me down so hard I had to blow pretty much everything to escape.

Now, I’m not saying the spec was OP per se. If I decided to leave the fight, there wasn’t a whole lot she could do to stop me from leaving. But running away was pretty much the only counterplay it had.

My point is just it makes a lot more sense to me now why this spec seems OP. It’s really hard to see how to play against something like this. My build even has pretty good condi clear and recovery, but it wasn’t fast enough. If I were an sPvP player I’d probably switch to Runes of Lyssa and save my Basilisk Venom for it, but them’s expensive for PvE.

So let me get this straight. First, the Necro did not kill you. You decided to engage, got countered, but successfully escaped before dying.

Second, you acknowledge that the Necro cannot stop you from escaping the fight. In other words, the Necro cannot kill your Thief unless you over commit.

Third, you mention that running away is the only counterplay available when you are specifically playing on a hit-and-run themed class. Combine this with the fact that the Necro cannot kill you, and you will find the solution. Engage the Necro repeatedly in order to burn fear CDs and drain life force. Eventually, you will gain the favorable engagement and kill said Necro.

And yet you can still see how this is perceived as OP for the Necro? Pretty sad predicament for the supposed “attrition class,” eh?

^^ love this guys logic! Couldnt say it better!
Dont forget that necro was desing as counter class since beggining and you actually should regret attacking it <<devs words!

to kill a necro as thief (1v1): engage until necro uses up life force, then disengage; engage again when ready: necro does not have enough time to recharge life force.

BondageBill.4021:

So let me get this straight. First, the Necro did not kill you. You decided to engage, got countered, but successfully escaped before dying.

Second, you acknowledge that the Necro cannot stop you from escaping the fight. In other words, the Necro cannot kill your Thief unless you over commit.

Third, you mention that running away is the only counterplay available when you are specifically playing on a hit-and-run themed class. Combine this with the fact that the Necro cannot kill you, and you will find the solution. Engage the Necro repeatedly in order to burn fear CDs and drain life force. Eventually, you will gain the favorable engagement and kill said Necro.

Can’t. I had to blow too many cooldowns to escape her initial burst and it took too long to recover sufficiently to try another attack.

And to be clear, she killed me twice. I got away, but then was curious how the 30/30/10 build could handle a longer fight, so I went back in, died, then waypointed, found her again, and lost again. I’m not saying I couldn’t have done something differently, but it was hard to see what.

BondageBill.4021:

And yet you can still see how this is perceived as OP for the Necro? Pretty sad predicament for the supposed “attrition class,” eh?

I think this is kinda what was off about it: this patch didn’t give the Necro the attrition we’re supposed to have, it just gave us nasty burst.

It should go back to where a Thief can hit a necro for 23k dam while in stun. Stay invis so can’t be attacked to finish him off without taking any dam.

Also, why did they fix the necro’s 1200 range, it was way more fair when a thief could just sit out of range of a necro & dps them down without taking any damage.

Why did they make ‘Brakes Stun’ less than 1min CD now?

It’s good that a necro only has fear to save them while downed, That way stability or Invis is a nice cheap 100% promised stomp.

Necro’s actually being able to do damage back… What crazy world is this?!!

thieves are op from the start of the game, why don’t you QQ about that? they can use invisibility even in combat, not for one time surprise attack like other games. if they nerf necro, they have to nerf thief perma stealth and perma dodge abilities too. or that won’t be fair and thief will remain op.

I feel as if some of you aren’t reading my posts in full and getting all defensive over nothing. Though I suppose that doesn’t really surprise me. All I’ll say for clarification is that this new spec sucks to play against and doesn’t feel like Necro attrition to play. I don’t think it’s overpowered exactly, but it’s lopsided and needs adjustment.

Blaine Tog.8304:

I feel as if some of you aren’t reading my posts in full and getting all defensive over nothing. Though I suppose that doesn’t really surprise me. All I’ll say for clarification is that this new spec sucks to play against and doesn’t feel like Necro attrition to play. I don’t think it’s overpowered exactly, but it’s lopsided and needs adjustment.

It probably doesn’t surprise you because the spvp and necromancer forums have been flooded with hysteria and ridiculous claims since the patch. Most necromancers agree that it’s to much, and a thief feigning love of the class so he can take potshots at it doesn’t help at all.

“Most necromancers agree " meh….

Well, I’m a necromancer and thief player, and as we always tell people in the thief forums…..

LEARN TO PLAY!!!!

Blaine Tog.8304:

It is suddenly much clearer to me why everyone else seems to think that spec is OP.

That burst…..

_

A thief talking about burst ?… no really… do go on

I gotta back up Blaine here, thieves are at a huge disadvantage against a 30/30/10 necro.

I play against some thief buddies from other servers in WvW on a regular basis. They can not win in a straight up duel if I use Dhuumfire. It’s about as futile as a necro fighting an S/D thief pre-patch.

I currently play 20/30/20 (w/o Dhuum) with a 20% crit chance, but when I switch to 30/20/20 my crit chance drops down to 15% and I still win against thieves every time because of burning.

flow.6043:

I gotta back up Blaine here, thieves are at a huge disadvantage against a 30/30/10 necro.

I play against some thief buddies from other servers in WvW on a regular basis. They can not win in a straight up duel if I use Dhuumfire. It’s about as futile as a necro fighting an S/D thief pre-patch.

I currently play 20/30/20 (w/o Dhuum) with a 20% crit chance, but when I switch to 30/20/20 my crit chance drops down to 15% and I still win against thieves every time because of burning.

I do not understand why you keep trying to bring necromancer down. ArenaNet will either make it right… buff or nerf as needed, or not… as a marketing tactic, just like they do with Starcraft 1 and 2, you need to buy the next 3 expansions to get your balance.

The thing is… if it were up to you we would get nerfed, and that would make necromancers remain not present in high TPvP official matches.

Sure… remove our burst, give us the ability to not be focused… or let us keep our burst. Between you and me i’d like that particular bursting potential to be nerfed and gain some anti focus survivability instead.
I much rather have a proper fight… then win most 1v1s and lose all 1v2s…
But just asking for nerfs will put us back where we started if ArenaNet listens, i don’t think they will simply nerf us without giving us something in return.

Why bash the class ?… Why do any of you bash your own class, if it’s OP enjoy it while it lasts… or at least be objective, ask for reduced damage and increased survivability.
After all the things this class has been through… you guys don’t want to enjoy a bit of OPness (if any ?). Have some fun… we were underpowered for a while now…

Oh… i’m sorry, i’m sure there were many people before patch that could 1v2 easily. I have a mate, his name is Shiva… me and him is enough to bring down any necromancers even now. But me and him sometimes we could not kill our mate Nash… which with his bunker elementalist escaped the both of us like 40% of the time.

Anyone want to take me up on that challenge ?… Me and Shiva vs you… you don’t have to win, just survive for more then 20 seconds.
A thief could, an elementalist could… a guardian could and an engineer could…

A… and warriors were bad before patch too, i don’t know how they are now.

In WvWvW smart necromancer can get his life force pretty quickly by killing everything around. Your way is to play as deffensivly as you can untill you burn his stunbreaker and Doom fear. After that, mke sure to duel in clean area, without mobs he can use to epidemic you/gain LF, recuperate a bit and CC him to death

-First, the game is not balanced around 1 v 1.
-Second, if you had someone (like a shout guardian —> removing 2 conditionss per shout) to give you stability and faced that necro + another person (so its a nice 2 v 2), the necro’s damage would go wayyyyy down. Why? You can’t fear someone with stability. If you can’t fear them, fear does not do damage (Yeah but he will bring corrupt boon! No.. not always. He will likely take his Spectral Wall + Spectral Grasp, in which case he is left with one utility, and if it isn’t for survival, he/she will be a squishy sitting duck).
-Then there’s the burning, which is more tricky, but it is once every 10 secs, so if you remove it quickly, you are safe for 10 secs. Just because you met your counter does not make it OP. (unlike you thieves, with that setup we can’t just vanish into thin air, we just sit there waiting for a beating). I have always played a necro and decided to go into sPvP the other night. To my surprise, it was infested with necros to the point where I was being feared left and right. Most of those necros were actually really, really squishy….. But all we really needed, as a team, was AoE condition removal and stability, but people like their dmg too much to go for support :P

I agree with Nemesis.

@flow.6043, what builds were your thief friends playing? If they were playing glass cannon then they deserve what came to them. If they were playing S/D then that would be the worst build EVER against a necromancer! I would love nothing more than any class to stand in front of me and try to melee me, and I’m a powermancer. Have your friends put 30 in shadow arts, pick up D/P or D/D and try to duel you again….

I’m not bashing our class.

But how much enjoying while it lasts can be done when all we do is “win most 1v1s and lose all 1v2s”?
Since our suvivability is still lacking (which is an entirely differnet issue btw) I’d rather be an underdog again like we were pre-patch rather than dominating every 1v1 encounter.

flow.6043:

… rather than dominating every 1v1 encounter.

… there always was, and always will be “MOA”.

Your survivability will lack if you run 30/30/10…. and this is basically your fault.

Azraeel.1238:

@flow.6043, what builds were your thief friends playing? If they were playing glass cannon then they deserve what came to them. If they were playing S/D then that would be the worst build EVER against a necromancer! I would love nothing more than any class to stand in front of me and try to melee me, and I’m a powermancer. Have your friends put 30 in shadow arts, pick up D/P or D/D and try to duel you again….

You are underestimating Sword thieves. You need to bring so many stun breaks against those builds that you won’t be left with any aggressive utilities.
Just trust me when I say, I’ve played against some of the very best thieves there are… and they/we tried all kinds of builds against each other in hundreds of duels.

flow.6043:

I’m not bashing our class.

But how much enjoying while it lasts can be done when all we do is “win most 1v1s and lose all 1v2s”?
Since our suvivability is still lacking (which is an entirely differnet issue btw) I’d rather be an underdog again like we were pre-patch rather than dominating every 1v1 encounter.

But seriously now… at least now we’re good for something.

It doesn’t matter what we all bicker here about, balance is balance… and it will be achieved regardless of personal preferences and “feelings” of certain players. There’s a bigger picture here… if the game wants to be an ESport that is…

I had my doubts about ArenaNet in the begging because this game was lacking certain aspects, and then i saw… “the hellfire armor”.
They are learning… they are listening. Maybe no one from the ArenaNet staff heard me preaching for months about EPICNESS and ARMOR and combined = PROFIT…

Maybe they didn’t hear it from anyone as a feedback, yet they made this choice on their own… i don’t even know which one is better… the fact that they listen to the community, or the fact they don’t have to and still make good decisions.

Regardless… ArenaNet has my faith for the time being, this year… maybe the next, maybe for ever… Maybe i hit the jackpot and buy it

Azraeel.1238:

Your survivability will lack if you run 30/30/10…. and this is basically your fault.

Like I said, I run a different build.
Also, what are you going to do with “more” survivability anyway? Win 1v2s? nope.

Azraeel.1238:

Your survivability will lack if you run 30/30/10…. and this is basically your fault.

I am sorry, did you even playd Necro ?=)
Of cource we are losing 30 trait point that we would put in blood and ds, but it wont make so much diffrence – since ds pool is very slowly filling (mb not so slowly as pre patch) and we would be at the starting point, but with all nerfed skills.

i died to a thief yesterday while i was afk at a camp in wvw
thieves are op pls nerf

Batlav.6318:

i died to a thief yesterday while i was afk at a camp in wvw
thieves are op pls nerf

Nuff said.

I would like better LF generation for condi builds without having to rely on Spectrals. I would also really enjoy more access to protection (since they nerfed Spectral Wall) and reduce our condi burst a little bit.

We are almost on par, but it was overshot with burst and barely even touched with sustain/survivability. Maybe Death Shroud will eventually get a patch that will help this in some way. I can honestly say I would much rather have more ways to out last than to burst as a Conditionmancer. I think our condi damage (I don’t play power) is at a good place atm, maybe even a little too good, but survival is definitely still as low as ever.

emon.1863:

Azraeel.1238:

Your survivability will lack if you run 30/30/10…. and this is basically your fault.

I am sorry, did you even playd Necro ?=)
Of cource we are losing 30 trait point that we would put in blood and ds, but it wont make so much diffrence – since ds pool is very slowly filling (mb not so slowly as pre patch) and we would be at the starting point, but with all nerfed skills.

Man, I’m having a hard time understanding what you wrote, anyways, not only have I played a necro, it is my main over 4 80s with more than 800 hours spent on it. I loved the class pre patch and still do after the buffs. I personally prefer power builds over hybrids or condition builds, however I’m pretty sure you can last more with a lets say 30 points in blood than in going full in spite, or 20 in blood, 10 in Death Magic and 10 in Soul Reaping. Now, will you be able to win against two? Up to your skills and how good the ones against you.

Azraeel.1238:

I agree with Nemesis.

@flow.6043, what builds were your thief friends playing? If they were playing glass cannon then they deserve what came to them. If they were playing S/D then that would be the worst build EVER against a necromancer! I would love nothing more than any class to stand in front of me and try to melee me, and I’m a powermancer. Have your friends put 30 in shadow arts, pick up D/P or D/D and try to duel you again….

Actually, S/D is one of the better builds to use against necromancers right now. Between the evades, dazes, and blinds, a necro is going to have a very hard time even landing a single mark on them.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Can’t. I had to blow too many cooldowns to escape her initial burst and it took too long to recover sufficiently to try another attack.

And to be clear, she killed me twice. I got away, but then was curious how the 30/30/10 build could handle a longer fight, so I went back in, died, then waypointed, found her again, and lost again. I’m not saying I couldn’t have done something differently, but it was hard to see what.

What is your build? I’m quite curious because there is such a thing as immortal thieves in WvW, which IMO are quite broken. Not that they’ll kill much, but they’re also unstoppable.

You made it very clear which of the classes has the upper hand though. This isn’t death match, you get points for objectives not kills, and as you said, despite their “burst”, the necromancer could not kill you except when you kept going back and over commit.

What’s this whole 30/30/10 build going around? Can someone please explain it to me/how it works and/or provide a link to a build of it? Thanks.

Ok my personal view on Necro WvW since patch:

1 v 1: 30/30/10 works great vs average players in 1v1.

1 vs. 2 or more: not so much, not even vs average players because 1-2 knockdowns, fears, stuns can ruin your day.

Another downside are the available rune and foodbuff combinations. For example Melandru + Lemongrass combined with strong anti condition- or CC builds will have you running or downed in notime. In the future i can see Guardians, Eles, Warriors (yes Warriors!), maybe even Engineers as strongest counters 1v1, even before Mesmers and Thieves.

As for the threadstarter who plays a thief: Rightnow, many Thieves are still using Lyssa which you can easily bait for. Your best bet is being specced into shadow arts and to get rid of Necro Lifeforce in an attrition fight for an easy kill.

Sithaco.4673:

What’s this whole 30/30/10 build going around? Can someone please explain it to me/how it works and/or provide a link to a build of it? Thanks.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Build-30-30-10/

Kravick.4906:

Actually, S/D is one of the better builds to use against necromancers right now. Between the evades, dazes, and blinds, a necro is going to have a very hard time even landing a single mark on them.

Pretty much, yeah.

Since the patch I can handle S/D thieves much better though, with Tainted Shackles and Well of Power breaking stuns now, i’d have to play more matches but I guess this thief build is still the hardest one to beat as a necro.

ProxyDamage.9826:

You made it very clear which of the classes has the upper hand though. This isn’t death match, you get points for objectives not kills, and as you said, despite their “burst”, the necromancer could not kill you except when you kept going back and over commit.

You are forgetting that thieves are known to be a little ocd about unfinished business.

The biggest boost I’ve seen in my necro damage has actually been due to the new +50% crit grandmaster trait in soul reaping…

flow.6043:

I gotta back up Blaine here, thieves are at a huge disadvantage against a 30/30/10 necro.

I play against some thief buddies from other servers in WvW on a regular basis. They can not win in a straight up duel if I use Dhuumfire. It’s about as futile as a necro fighting an S/D thief pre-patch.

I currently play 20/30/20 (w/o Dhuum) with a 20% crit chance, but when I switch to 30/20/20 my crit chance drops down to 15% and I still win against thieves every time because of burning.

You win because the thieves refuse to run additional condition clears. If they are running their available additional condition clears, and you are still beating them on necro, it is a skill issue. Think fighting a phantasm mesmer that slots condition removal everwhere.

I agree that a normal D/D, S/D using his roaming around build is likely going to lose in a…. duel….. with a necro (the only time they ever stay around long enough to die). If you are dueling people consecutively, and they are not swapping around their traits/skills to deal with your conditions, then they deserve to lose. Thief has the best available toolkit to kill necro now, before, and always. The fact they choose to not use that toolkit is their problem.

The extra 800+ burning damage is a game changer, if and only if you refuse to acknowledge necros can now do more than bleed and lightly poison you. Once you recognize that not taking additional condition clears is going to kill you, you will be fine.

And what are those additional condition cleanses?

Besides Shadow’s Embrace (which every thief runs anyway) there’s only the Sigil of Agility and Show return (both for the swords and Shadow Step). Am I missing something?
Even if you have all of those, the condi pressure is too much for a thief.

And no, this is not a “skill issue”.

Terok.7315:

and a thief feigning love of the class

How dare you. I post on the Necro forums far, far more than I most anywhere else, never claiming the Necro needs something adjusted down. I farmed Arah for a second set of Exotic armor for my Necro, while my thief still has just her one purchased set. I play WvW more on my Necro than I do with any of my other characters and will take her on any dungeon over my thief in a heartbeat. You don’t know me, sir or ma’am (“madam” is filtered, really Anet?).

Nemesis.8593:

A thief talking about burst ?… no really… do go on

The irony isn’t lost on me. Nevertheless, I would prefer the Necro be the attrition class it was advertised as rather than become tourny-viable just because Anet gave us enough burst to instagib. The Warrior could be made to be a required profession in torneys if they got a utility skill that instantly killed its target at up to 1,200 range through blocks, invulnerabilities, dodges, and walls on 5 second cooldown with a 1/4 second cast time, but that wouldn’t be good for the game, nor would it make Warriors all that much fun to play.

Nemesis.8593:

I do not understand why you keep trying to bring necromancer down. ArenaNet will either make it right… buff or nerf as needed, or not… as a marketing tactic, just like they do with Starcraft 1 and 2, you need to buy the next 3 expansions to get your balance.

The thing is… if it were up to you we would get nerfed, and that would make necromancers remain not present in high TPvP official matches.

I don’t think this is a fair charge. No one here’s saying the Necro should get straight-up nerfed.

Nemesis.8593:

Sure… remove our burst, give us the ability to not be focused… or let us keep our burst. Between you and me i’d like that particular bursting potential to be nerfed and gain some anti focus survivability instead.

Me too. I’m still waiting for our strong attrition mechanics to show up.

Nemesis.8593:

Why bash the class ?… Why do any of you bash your own class, if it’s OP enjoy it while it lasts… or at least be objective, ask for reduced damage and increased survivability.
After all the things this class has been through… you guys don’t want to enjoy a bit of OPness (if any ?). Have some fun… we were underpowered for a while now…

I have rarely felt particularly underpowered on my Necro. And I’d rather we be balanced than OP. I don’t mind making the most of specs that are supposedly UP, but it always makes me feel dirty playing something I know is OP, like every victory I have has been stolen from me before I even get them because the deck was stacked so heavily in my favor.

I would prefer, however, for the Necro to simply be balanced. To get out exactly what I put in.

Kravick.4906:

Actually, S/D is one of the better builds to use against necromancers right now. Between the evades, dazes, and blinds, a necro is going to have a very hard time even landing a single mark on them.

I should probably give that a try. I just dislike the sword so very much.

ProxyDamage.9826:

What is your build?

I’m currently running a 0/30/30/0/10 spec, zerker armor with Valkyrie trinkets. I love the Shadow Arts line, I love everything about it except that I can only take 3 major traits.

For condi clear, that means I have Hide in Shadows (lose bleeding, burning, poison), Shadow’s Embrace (lose a condi on stealthing and then another every 3 seconds), and Shadowstep (lose 3 condis on second application). It didn’t matter. It wasn’t nearly enough. This fight inspired me to pick up a few Bowls of Poultry and Leek Soup (the cheap version of Lemongrass poultry soup) so I would have a contingency plan when facing something like this in the future.

ProxyDamage.9826:

You made it very clear which of the classes has the upper hand though. This isn’t death match, you get points for objectives not kills, and as you said, despite their “burst”, the necromancer could not kill you except when you kept going back and over commit.

Oh yeah, like I said, it isn’t like duels actually matter much in WvW. She couldn’t pin me down since I’d Shadowstep outside of tether range.

My point isn’t that this build is wrecking the game mode. I’m just saying, the QQ makes more sense to me now, and I think the problem is it’s made the Necro into a burster with some burst avoidance and serious follow-up DPS as opposed to the attrition class with moderate burst it was advertised as.

Rennoko.5731:

flow.6043:

I gotta back up Blaine here, thieves are at a huge disadvantage against a 30/30/10 necro.

I play against some thief buddies from other servers in WvW on a regular basis. They can not win in a straight up duel if I use Dhuumfire. It’s about as futile as a necro fighting an S/D thief pre-patch.

I currently play 20/30/20 (w/o Dhuum) with a 20% crit chance, but when I switch to 30/20/20 my crit chance drops down to 15% and I still win against thieves every time because of burning.

You win because the thieves refuse to run additional condition clears. If they are running their available additional condition clears, and you are still beating them on necro, it is a skill issue. Think fighting a phantasm mesmer that slots condition removal everwhere.

I agree that a normal D/D, S/D using his roaming around build is likely going to lose in a…. duel….. with a necro (the only time they ever stay around long enough to die). If you are dueling people consecutively, and they are not swapping around their traits/skills to deal with your conditions, then they deserve to lose. Thief has the best available toolkit to kill necro now, before, and always. The fact they choose to not use that toolkit is their problem.

The extra 800+ burning damage is a game changer, if and only if you refuse to acknowledge necros can now do more than bleed and lightly poison you. Once you recognize that not taking additional condition clears is going to kill you, you will be fine.

… but but but ! taking condition removals prevents them from taking more “leet skillz” to one shot people. This simply can not be ! “We must stop them !” – Magg reference anyone ?

The real problem they said necromancer is “borderline OP” in the rare situations when everything “clicks in” and you have AoE burning + AoE bleeds and you drop AoE fear on top… you can wipe a team…

Yes… no character should be able to do that, that is OP.

The second problem is that while that is very strong vs multiple in the rare occasions it happens, but doesn’t make it any different in 1v1, it’s something that is really strong if it clicks, and while it shouldn’t do that vs multiple… perhaps it should do that vs 1 target…

Third problem would be that ArenaNet wants us to be an attrition class with low mobility and high attrition, which i totally agree with… i don’t think we should be given mobility and stability and be turned into an elementalist… So we have Death Shroud to compensate for our lack of mobility.
Here’s the catch… a thief goes into stealth to escape 1 player or 5 players, a mesmer goes distorted to escape 1 player or 5 players, an engineer eats an elixir to escape 1 player or 5 players… guardian becomes invulnerable.

A necromancer can absorb damage from 1 player to escape… dies instantly from 5… if DS is to be used to compensate for that, it would be either too much for 1v1 and enough for 1v multiple, or not enough for 1v multiple…

Now add the lack of mobility and stability / escape mechanisms… and we have the perfect class to be focused. No chance = free kill = GG.

The only way i see this getting fixed is with additional mechanics vs being focused… like Reaper’s Protection moved somewhere more accessible and have an additional effect such as: “Resets in 90 seconds AND resets every 3-4-5 consecutive CCs done in 90 seconds under 90 seconds”… therefor DS remains the same and doesn’t imbalance 1v1, and focus fireing gets punished…

A spec is not OP if it kills you in 1v1 i get the impression a Necro is not supposed to be able to kill a thief am i right and if they do it is OP?

ok your argument is you had to blow everything to escape but doesn’t that not count the same for many other professions who still can’t escape a thief?

There is a meta where thieves believe that they will win every 1v1 to the point they are completely arrogant that when they are beaten it must mean the opponent is OP

Iv seen it so many times just the other day a guy got stomped by a thief stealthing out and wearing the guy down the dude came back to where the thief was roaming setup a stealth trap thief tripped it lost his escape mechanism got beaten got rage invited the guy to party only to call him a stupid noob lol

Ive always given thieves a run for their money, this patch just makes it more painful for them. We’re one of few classes that doesnt need a target to unleash a ton of damage, which is something they should fear. On the other hand if they play smart avoid our siphon and avoid/evade or marks, they can destroy us pretty bad. Problem for most theives is they dont know necros well enough to fight them effectively.

Nemesis.8593:

The only way i see this getting fixed is with additional mechanics vs being focused… like Reaper’s Protection moved somewhere more accessible and have an additional effect such as: “Resets in 90 seconds AND resets every 3-4-5 consecutive CCs done in 90 seconds under 90 seconds”… therefor DS remains the same and doesn’t imbalance 1v1, and focus fireing gets punished…

I would love this.

Another option (probably should go hand in hand with your suggestion) is to engineer Lifeforce generation to occur more quickly with more foes around. This is already kinda the case but as you noted, it doesn’t go far enough to give us a linear progression of survivability against multiple foes. Stuff like DS#4 is perfect for helping the Necro survive against groups, it just needs to be a bit more ubiquitous.

Axle.5182:

ok your argument is you had to blow everything to escape but doesn’t that not count the same for many other professions who still can’t escape a thief?

Thieves are supposed to be high-burst but squishy. If you can manage to pin them down better than they can manage to escape, they should die.

Necros are supposed to be an attrition class. If you get into a fight with a Necro, it should be difficult to escape and difficult to kill them, but there should be a reasonable window of time in which you can outplay their attrition. It shouldn’t simply be impossible to kill them and they shouldn’t be able to spike you down instantly while still having attrition mechanics.

To put it simply, there should be a smooth tradeoff between offense and defense. If I can kill you instantly, you should be able to kill me instantly. If I’m trying to wear you down, it should be possible to wear me down. This has nothing to do with individual professions and everything to do with a balanced risk/reward formula. The counterplay option of “just don’t fight” should only very rarely be the best (or even remotely the best) option. The game should encourage engaging in fights, not discourage it.

Axle.5182:

There is a meta where thieves believe that they will win every 1v1 to the point they are completely arrogant that when they are beaten it must mean the opponent is OP

No, I think the more skilled opponent should win in 1v1, if both are specced for roaming. Which isn’t to say I think I’m more skilled at my thief than this Necro was at her necro or anything. It just didn’t feel like skill really mattered here.

Axle.5182:

Iv seen it so many times just the other day a guy got stomped by a thief stealthing out and wearing the guy down the dude came back to where the thief was roaming setup a stealth trap thief tripped it lost his escape mechanism got beaten got rage invited the guy to party only to call him a stupid noob lol

Conversely, I added this Necro to my party to ask her about her build and congratulate her for beating me, which I usually do when I lose a duel.

Kilger.5490:

Ive always given thieves a run for their money, this patch just makes it more painful for them. We’re one of few classes that doesnt need a target to unleash a ton of damage, which is something they should fear. On the other hand if they play smart avoid our siphon and avoid/evade or marks, they can destroy us pretty bad. Problem for most theives is they dont know necros well enough to fight them effectively.

Oh yeah, I take particular glee in killing Thieves on my Necro. I also knew how to avoid a lot of this Necro’s burst. I was dying even AFTER dodging most of her marks and clearing her condis.

“I faced a hammer guardian/warrion on my necro in WvW”

It is suddenly very confusing for me why noone thinks these specs are OP.
Look mommy i m flying!!…..
_

OP, if you are a thief in WvW and die, you’re doing something wrong. Thieves are completely broken in WvW roaming. broken.

I ran across a quite a few thieves on my necro in wvw recently. I’ve managed to kill two of them. Just two.

How did I kill them? With their stupidity. One stealthed into my mark of blood, then ran into my Reaper’s Mark, and I dropped my entire signet of spite on him, cast Doom on him and hit him with Life Blast and Transfer. At that, he still almost got away.
The other ran repeatedly into my Spectral Wall while I unloaded on him. Both of them were glass cannon builds.

For all the other encounters, I was either killed, or they ran off.

I solo roam on my necro sometimes.

There is one class I have zero respect for and that is thief. If a thief is losing they just run away they can get away from zergs as easy and 1 v 1s at any time. Its beyond OP its god mode, until other classes have the ability to 1 shot a thief at will thief will always be OP in WvW.

I am going to play devil’s advocate here and defend thieves for a second.

Thieves are only OP against glass cannons / bad players. I am not pointing fingers, but you can deal with thieves very easily if you can live through their initial burst. Especially with DS, Necromancers should have no problems if prepared.