Guild Wars 2

I don’t play necro. However, I do play ranger, and as a ranger I feel like Astral Form steps all over necros tankyness while having good dps and group support. How do you guys feel about it?

There really isn’t any gameplay comparison between Astral Form and Shroud, except the fact that they are transforms gated behind a resource you have to build, like Berserker is. Otherwise, Astral Form is very different than Shroud. Don’t see any reason to feel shafted that Rangers also got something cool for once.

Don’t see how is it similar, so personally don’t care.

I don’t really see them as similar. Like….it’s about as similar as a vampire to a werewolf….if that makes sense. I’ll let you sort it out. I have nachos to eat

Rangers got group support that they lacked, necros got to become melee monsters and got a small bit of mobility that they lacked. Win/win imo.

If you want to talk shafted, visit tempest, daredevils, and dragon hunters.

• druids cannot leave astral form and keep the energy they had left: they start from 0
• druids cannot use this “energy pool” as a secondary life, though of course the amount of healing makes up for it… a lot
• druids can in principle use any weapon to build astral force, but in practice only one works. Oh wait, necro too
• druids cannot give much damage while in astral form
• druids can use their utilities while in astral form (grrrr)
• druids can receive healing while in astral form (grrrr)

so quite different. But druids and necro could benefit from each other’s mechanics

• no incoming healing in death shroud is hard (and maybe unfair) for necros
• not having the possibility to use astral form for 1 or 2 skills only and pop out of it after + having most astra skills with very similar function (i.e. healing) means astral form is spammy as kitten. I had high hopes but it ended up being super boring to play.

gavyne.6847:

Rangers got group support that they lacked, necros got to become melee monsters and got a small bit of mobility that they lacked. Win/win imo.

If you want to talk shafted, visit tempest, daredevils, and dragon hunters.

I honestly love tempest and dragonhunter, come at me.

Anyways, reaper is by no means getting us shafted. Thematically it’s extremely cool and flavorful, and mechanically it honestly works out very well with a few tweaks needed here and there. It gives the necromancer stuff it’s been missing for a while, so it’s doing it’s job just fine.

Druid doesn’t give you a life shield, so in reality it’s very different. I don’t feel threatened by it at all.

I’m still jealous that Druids can heal themselves in Astral Form.

You felt wrong.

Reaper > Your astral form anyday bby

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m still jealous that Druids can heal themselves in Astral Form.

lol, agreed, but that is probably the only thing about Astral Form that I like more than Reaper Shroud.

I think necro got one of the best elite specs, if not the best spec.

It’s good that ranger got a good one too, as they’ve been consistently shafted by inaction on crappy pet implementation for 3 years.

Win win.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

I don’t play necro. However, I do play ranger, and as a ranger I feel like Astral Form steps all over necros tankyness while having good dps and group support. How do you guys feel about it?

I have a hard time believing you play ranger at all. Necro can eat rangers alive (literally).

Silverkey.2078:

• druids cannot leave astral form and keep the energy they had left: they start from 0
• druids cannot use this “energy pool” as a secondary life, though of course the amount of healing makes up for it… a lot
• druids can in principle use any weapon to build astral force, but in practice only one works. Oh wait, necro too
• druids cannot give much damage while in astral form
• druids can use their utilities while in astral form (grrrr)
• druids can receive healing while in astral form (grrrr)

so quite different. But druids and necro could benefit from each other’s mechanics

• no incoming healing in death shroud is hard (and maybe unfair) for necros
• not having the possibility to use astral form for 1 or 2 skills only and pop out of it after + having most astra skills with very similar function (i.e. healing) means astral form is spammy as kitten. I had high hopes but it ended up being super boring to play.

Totally agree
Reaper Necro is AoE dps
Druid Ranger is AoE heal

A match made in heaven… unless the Necro is in Shroud so, a match made somewhere else.

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

I don’t play necro. However, I do play ranger, and as a ranger I feel like Astral Form steps all over necros tankyness while having good dps and group support. How do you guys feel about it?

I have a hard time believing you play ranger at all. Necro can eat rangers alive (literally).

I want to know how. I got destroyed by a ranger 5 times tonight.

Svarty.8019:

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

I don’t play necro. However, I do play ranger, and as a ranger I feel like Astral Form steps all over necros tankyness while having good dps and group support. How do you guys feel about it?

I have a hard time believing you play ranger at all. Necro can eat rangers alive (literally).

I want to know how. I got destroyed by a ranger 5 times tonight.

Comparative builds? Necros have a tough time with Longbow Rangers that have a good vantage point, but devour condition rangers. Even Longbow rangers become much easier if you’re packing CPC.

Anchoku.8142:

Silverkey.2078:

• druids cannot leave astral form and keep the energy they had left: they start from 0
• druids cannot use this “energy pool” as a secondary life, though of course the amount of healing makes up for it… a lot
• druids can in principle use any weapon to build astral force, but in practice only one works. Oh wait, necro too
• druids cannot give much damage while in astral form
• druids can use their utilities while in astral form (grrrr)
• druids can receive healing while in astral form (grrrr)

so quite different. But druids and necro could benefit from each other’s mechanics

• no incoming healing in death shroud is hard (and maybe unfair) for necros
• not having the possibility to use astral form for 1 or 2 skills only and pop out of it after + having most astra skills with very similar function (i.e. healing) means astral form is spammy as kitten. I had high hopes but it ended up being super boring to play.

Totally agree
Reaper Necro is AoE dps
Druid Ranger is AoE heal

A match made in heaven… unless the Necro is in Shroud so, a match made somewhere else.

Indeed. Since a saw the Druid spec and Celestial form, all I could think about was a Reaper/Druid duo team. Just honestly think about the mechanics+build synergy possibilities and you have one (possible) ridiculously powerful mid duo.

I’ll try to add a couple builds to illustrate where my mind is at here.

I have no doubt that Reaper/Druid is going to be a nasty duo, but we STILL have no idea what new Sigils and Runesets are coming. Chrono/Reaper/Druid mid point domination?
Rune of the Wellomancers Reaper/Chrono+Rune of the Mesmer, Celestial Druids with 9 second Dazes! O.O

Just throwing silly ideas out there because cool factor. I just want to see new Sigils and Runeset so bad. The Meta is going to change big time and I still think most of the shift will come from things we have yet to see.

Be careful of assumptions. Neither Reaper, nor Druid are very resistant to hard CC. Both are designed with defensive and offensive gaps to be filled by other professions.

Specializations imply HoT will require more than two jobs cooperating for more than casual PUG encounters.

Bhawb.7408:

There really isn’t any gameplay comparison between Astral Form and Shroud, except the fact that they are transforms gated behind a resource you have to build, like Berserker is. Otherwise, Astral Form is very different than Shroud. Don’t see any reason to feel shafted that Rangers also got something cool for once.

Seeing the Astral form made me glad lad I’d leveled up a Ranger. It looks like it might be fun to play with. I don’t feel like Druid’s getting Astral Form hurts Necromancers either. I want to be able to do neat things no matter what class I’m playing on.

Nah, i’m happy with reaper shroud, it really is everything I wanted out of this elite spec.

^ Agree with this 100%
Reaper’s shroud is way cooler and more interesting than Avatar.

Anchoku.8142:

Be careful of assumptions. Neither Reaper, nor Druid are very resistant to hard CC. Both are designed with defensive and offensive gaps to be filled by other professions.

Specializations imply HoT will require more than two jobs cooperating for more than casual PUG encounters.

Just go with a 5 Revenant team and problem solved.
They can self boost themselves with 25 mights, perma fury, perma swiftness, perma regen by just standing together. Their dps is top level too. They have cleanse, projectile block, lots of boons, lots of CC, stability, boon removal.
They also are strongest when it comes to damaging break-bar.

They can do everything.

Silverkey.2078:

• druids cannot leave astral form and keep the energy they had left: they start from 0
• druids cannot use this “energy pool” as a secondary life, though of course the amount of healing makes up for it… a lot
• druids can in principle use any weapon to build astral force, but in practice only one works. Oh wait, necro too
• druids cannot give much damage while in astral form
• druids can use their utilities while in astral form (grrrr)
• druids can receive healing while in astral form (grrrr)

so quite different. But druids and necro could benefit from each other’s mechanics

• no incoming healing in death shroud is hard (and maybe unfair) for necros
• not having the possibility to use astral form for 1 or 2 skills only and pop out of it after + having most astra skills with very similar function (i.e. healing) means astral form is spammy as kitten. I had high hopes but it ended up being super boring to play.

I’d say that with the change announced, The avatar is one or 2 step closer to the shroud :

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

• Celestial Avatar Form: Entering this form now has a 10s CD. Charging of Astral force by healing has been reduced by 40%. Charging of Astral force by outgoing strikes has been increased by 200%. You now retain half your current astral force if you decide to break form early.

Well wishes,
~Irenio

- Shroud base cool down : 10s -> avatar CD 10s.
- Keep half of the astral force if breaking avatar early.
- almost easier to build astral force than life force…

I’d still say that it’s way to close of a shroud and way to far of the core ranger mechanic for the good of the game.

Dadnir.5038:

Silverkey.2078:

• druids cannot leave astral form and keep the energy they had left: they start from 0
• druids cannot use this “energy pool” as a secondary life, though of course the amount of healing makes up for it… a lot
• druids can in principle use any weapon to build astral force, but in practice only one works. Oh wait, necro too
• druids cannot give much damage while in astral form
• druids can use their utilities while in astral form (grrrr)
• druids can receive healing while in astral form (grrrr)

so quite different. But druids and necro could benefit from each other’s mechanics

• no incoming healing in death shroud is hard (and maybe unfair) for necros
• not having the possibility to use astral form for 1 or 2 skills only and pop out of it after + having most astra skills with very similar function (i.e. healing) means astral form is spammy as kitten. I had high hopes but it ended up being super boring to play.

I’d say that with the change announced, The avatar is one or 2 step closer to the shroud :

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

• Celestial Avatar Form: Entering this form now has a 10s CD. Charging of Astral force by healing has been reduced by 40%. Charging of Astral force by outgoing strikes has been increased by 200%. You now retain half your current astral force if you decide to break form early.

Well wishes,
~Irenio

- Shroud base cool down : 10s -> avatar CD 10s.
- Keep half of the astral force if breaking avatar early.
- almost easier to build astral force than life force…

I’d still say that it’s way to close of a shroud and way to far of the core ranger mechanic for the good of the game.

I think druids having a unique buff that works similar to might is way more of a problem. Up to 15% more damage for power and condi for the team is insane.

Rangers certainly will not be unwanted. I just wish Necro had group support so desirable. Transfusion and spamming 2 on greatsword is all i can think of atm. Chill will be ignored in PvE and the first raid does not need piles of AoE soft CC or cleave.

Anchoku.8142:

Rangers certainly will not be unwanted. I just wish Necro had group support so desirable. Transfusion and spamming 2 on greatsword is all i can think of atm. Chill will be ignored in PvE and the first raid does not need piles of AoE soft CC or cleave.

I’d say that it’s up to the behavior of the rangers. But yeah they get a lot of utilities with HoT and I personnally think that their greatest buff is the breakbar itself since they finally won’t be a bother anymore with their knockback fetish.

You forgot vampiric aura, it’s not much but it’s still something “desirable”.

gavyne.6847:

If you want to talk shafted, visit tempest, daredevils, and dragon hunters.

Dragonhunters are fine, thanks. In fact I’m kinda shocked the forums didn’t explode with finger-pointing envy when they got the best +damage% trait IN THE GAME a couple days ago.

Vampiric Aurora is too weak to support intense combat. Ranger and other professions will do vastly more powerful heals and offer stronger damage modifiers.

I am guessing Necromancer will only be useful for AoE damage and the Transfusion gimick. Maxed out on boons and other damage modifiers Necro should be excellent for holding a point against waves of veterans and champs.

That’s not really the kind of thing that this raid sample show us but we can hope I guess.

Vampiric aura have the advantage to be especially effective with fast hiting skills like Druid staff AA, mesmer GS AA or Ele air scepter AA. Though the damage are abysmal but the healing value are… well… not as bad as it may be I guess…

Honestly I think the Ranger/Druid got shafted.

It

(1) Doesn’t have 100% healing skill form uptime
(2) does almost no damage in its form
(3) Doesn’t provide useful boons like Aegis or Protection. It only heals

Why bother with a druid when you can blast water fields & take a character who helps you better beat the raid timer?

Nike.2631:

gavyne.6847:

If you want to talk shafted, visit tempest, daredevils, and dragon hunters.

Dragonhunters are fine, thanks. In fact I’m kinda shocked the forums didn’t explode with finger-pointing envy when they got the best +damage% trait IN THE GAME a couple days ago.

The Guardian forum is the loudest complaining forum here. They were part of 90% of every pvp meta and 100% of every WvW and PvE meta.

And they never get nerfed.

The stuff they complain about (their shield) was perfectly useable, just defensive in nature. It got super buffed to a great state & people still complain.

Dragonhunters are close to imba. Compare their low cooldown high duration immobilize to dagger 3. Their longbow has two lines of warding. It’s a stability ripper. Longbow 2 is a short cast sniper shot at long range.

They’ve still got all the defensive stuff (focus5) to avoid getting hit while doing damage, and they are top tier at damage, ranged damage, and condition damage.

Ok the Dragonhunter name kinda sucks, but the class specialization will be great, offering a whole lot at the cost of being slightly worse 1v1 on a capture point.

I have played a ton of necro and ranger and they’re almost completely different. I actually feel BAD going into astral form on ranger because contrary to what you’re saying, astral form druid is some of the worst DPS in the entire game. They can heal allies I guess.

Necros heal less allies, but are a house of pain in DS. Staying alive and not doing anything is like playing a paperweight. I am probably going to play Reaper 100x more frequently than I play Druid in PvP.

nekretaal.6485:

The Guardian forum is the loudest complaining forum here. They were part of 90% of every pvp meta and 100% of every WvW and PvE meta.

I’m gonna nominate Thief, but they all have their… malcontents. I think I can say that without getting banned .

And they never get nerfed.

Not never (old Spirit Weapons, we miss you), but it’s been a long time in relative equilibrium. Personally I’m good with that, but stability makes some people antsy.

The stuff they complain about (their shield) was perfectly useable, just defensive in nature. It got super buffed to a great state & people still complain.

It was ok. There were better choices for almost every situation. The new version (which is still defensive in nature) will actually look pretty solid when compared to some of the new shield skills wizzing around on Revenants and Chronomancers. The sane Guardians try to not make eye contact with the ones still complaining about our shields .

Dragonhunters are close to imba. Compare their low cooldown high duration immobilize to dagger 3. Their longbow has two lines of warding. It’s a stability ripper. Longbow 2 is a short cast sniper shot at long range.

They’ve still got all the defensive stuff (focus5) to avoid getting hit while doing damage, and they are top tier at damage, ranged damage, and condition damage.

Ok the Dragonhunter name kinda sucks, but the class specialization will be great, offering a whole lot at the cost of being slightly worse 1v1 on a capture point.

I’m one of the most dedicated Dragonhunter supporters there is and I do look at the newest round of changes and think… ’hmm. That, that might get nerfed shortly after launch."

I have two necros at 80 – I love the class dearly, but honestly I feel like Reaper hit the ground really solid and has only shaped up even better with relatively small tweaks to timing (and I love the shouts being more reliable baseline and less of a ‘can I find/manage 5 targets?’ gamble.)

Nike.2631:

gavyne.6847:

If you want to talk shafted, visit tempest, daredevils, and dragon hunters.

Dragonhunters are fine, thanks. In fact I’m kinda shocked the forums didn’t explode with finger-pointing envy when they got the best +damage% trait IN THE GAME a couple days ago.

My comment was based on beta weekends, not the post-BWE3 changes they got after the beta weekends. If people are happy with dragonhunters now, more powers to them.

Druid will be an almost pure healing role and operate from the back line.

Between Druid and the front line will be Dragon Hunter setting traps and giving defense buffs while Revy and Chronomancer support the front line in their own ways.

Front line is Reaper playing a rock to be tripped over while Daredevil, Berserker, Scrapper, and Tempest zoom all over.

There needs to be a Power, Toughness, Condition Damage armor and weapon stat set.

Also new minions.

AND WILL ANET FINALLY FIX THE FLESH GOLEM AI?!!?!?? It still stands around doing nothing instead of attacking

Anchoku.8142:

Front line is Reaper playing a rock to be tripped over while Daredevil, Berserker, Scrapper, and Tempest zoom all over.

I prefer to think of Reapers more as a black hole from which not even light or tens of thousands of HP can escape.

Derenek.8931:

AND WILL ANET FINALLY FIX THE FLESH GOLEM AI?!!?!?? It still stands around doing nothing instead of attacking

…does it? All minion AI was updated recently, pretty much everyone agrees that they are far more responsive now (attack a target and they’ll attack it).

AI is fine now

Yep. Having seen celestial shroud in action, I didn’t even feel threatened by it on a non-reaper Necro. Shroud’s secondary health gimmick is extremely strong, and the reaper skills are useful in most all types of combat. It’s a great Swiss Army knife of a class mechanic.

Ranger shroud is very powerful in its own way. It gives great support and a massive hearing burst that can save a party from sudden defeat, but you can’t “flash” it the way you can death shroud, there are fewer traits involved to customize it, it does no damage, and frankly there a ranger’s utilities are primarily supportive in nature, somtheynonly way they can deal damage with them in celestial shroud is if they run traps. A Necro with access to utilities in shroud could do some very nasty corruptions while the shroud bar takes the condition hit. That would be a bit overly,powerful.

If you wanna talk about shafted, go over to the ele forums. At least necro gets a wicked and useful spec.

Reaper got an amazing, powerful autoattack that auto-generates might, and can be traited to apply vulnerability, dhuumfire or have a +50% crit chance, and replenish itself (essentially a life-steal)

Skill 2 skill blocks projectiles, does an immense amount of damage, and leaps the Reaper forward a huge amount.

Skill 3 is on-demand stability.

Skill 4 is THE best Whirl Finisher in the game, and applies 20+ stacks of Poison, for huge condition damage.

Skill 5 is a great execution skill that chills foes.

I think Reaper is in a good place, much more-so than other classes.