Guild Wars 2

Seriously. What is the problem?

-“OMG Dhuumfire!”

Other classes have burning. We need to go 30 into POWER for a CONDITION. So what, you trait 30/30/10 and have wretched lifeforce gen. Even with undead runes and rabid amulet you’re still just a condition generator who’s 100% susceptible to CC. If you’re ignored you can do damage, but who’s going to ignore us now? We sucked vs hard CC before patch we suck now after patch, except at least before patch no one cared about us.

-“OMG Terror!”

Again all I see is people crying about “BURNING + TERROR = OP”. See above. Or are you traiting 30/20/0/0/20 for Master of Terror but now your Staff is a complete joke which negates a significant amount of well, everything you do. Oh, are you running 0/30/20/0/20? The same exact Fear build that everyone has been running since Terror got buffed? Spectral Wall and Doom are now suddenly breaking the game? I’d rather not limit Doom use to within 600 range, especially when I need it as an on-demand interrupt regardless of what range I’m at. Spectral Wall is NOT an extra fear when Corrupt Boon no longer guarantees you convert Stability into Fear; it was compensation for the CB nerf and it made the spell actually useful. Sigil of Paralyzation making Fear’s too long? That’s not a Necro issue.

Thing is, everyone cries about a class or specific build being OP and then they immediately use that build against other people then cry when it inevitably gets nerfed into uselessness with no compensation. If it’s so OP stop using it. It’s only OP when you’re fighting 1v1 against a Terror necro, kicking the crap out of him, and then two more flavor of the month rerollers with the exact same build come up and spam CC on you some more. Now instead of it being “I can’t win versus 3 players” (derp), it becomes “necros are overpowered”.

I, as I’m sure many others, have been playing this class since BWE1 not because it was OP but because it was fun. I always felt competitive versus other classes regardless of what the forum QQ says, never had any issues with damage or attrition. Now we get some long overdue buffs, I STILL prefer my pre-patch build which essentially saw zero buffs, and yet suddenly we’re all “OP necro noobs rage rage”.

Hanzo.9624:

you trait 30/30/10 and have wretched lifeforce gen.
…100% susceptible to CC.

unless you were to take stun breaks and spectral skills (maybe even with Spectral Attunement). Problem solved.

Also, it’s not like you’re significantly more resilient with any other trait distibution. Either way, when you’re getting focused by 2+ players you’re done. So you might as well take the one current build that basically guarantees a win in 1v1s.

Btw I also use my pre-patch build which doesn’t include Dhuumfire, and with it I’m doing alright against other 30/30/10 necros… but that is only because I am a necro as well.
Other classes don’t have skills like Plague Signet or Putrid Mark that just sends every condition back at your opponent. So for me it is very conceivable why there are players complaining about the Dhuum/Terror build.

Also some of the primary complaints necros have had since day one are “necros need more access to fear”, “warrior and thief have longer fears than necros, we need longer fear duration”, “necros can’t do anything another class can’t do better”.

-They gave us more access to Fear by making spectral wall useful (only useful if the enemy hits it). They then nerfed CB to limit our access to Fear to try and balance.

-They slightly extended the duration of Doom but with a close range requirement.

-They made it so we can chain Fear better than any other class, so tournament teams looking to base a comp around cc would want to bring a necro along.

They basically did exactly what we asked for. Granted I would have liked to see a little more given to power builds but this is what we got. Just enjoy the game. You know it’s going to change constantly, you know things will get buffed and nerfed regularly. No company can make every single player of every class happy at the same time! It’s a game just have fun with it until you get bored and then go play another game. Isn’t that the point?

Hanzo.9624:

Just enjoy the game. You know it’s going to change constantly, you know things will get buffed and nerfed regularly. No company can make every single player of every class happy at the same time! It’s a game just have fun with it until you get bored and then go play another game. Isn’t that the point?

Very well-put.

Traits like terror aren’t really OP because they are cooldown limited and also require a relatively high skill cap to execute properly combining 3 different fear sources, tainted shackles and chill to be most effective at taking people down (considering high fear duration %s).
And even then thats just 1v1. Necros are still just as susceptible to focus fire due to their lack of escape mechanisms, so all in all I’d say the class is much more balanced with its new offensive buffs

This is bound to happen when you’ve had these other classes getting spoon fed wins off a silver platter for zero effort for the past several months. They’re going to cry and whine and scream nerf, but eventually they’ll either have to learn how to actually play their class…or just do like they did in the past and roll a new flavor of the month. You’re never going to escape these kinds of players because they’ve done it so long they don’t know any other way to play. It’s best to do like Hanzo said and just have fun while we can.

You start dying to the white mobs in open world PvE and tell me you wouldn’t start screaming for nerfs.
That’s what people feel like about the necro in sPvP right now.
We’re bringing a burst condition build into the meta, that has not happened since release.
Builds need to change much more than from previous patches and people are still confused on how to adapt.

I just hope that ANet applies the slow toning down mentality they’ve had for other professions when it comes to Necros, if they even decide something has to be toned down.
I say the nerf to corrupt boon came in quite well to stop the terrormancer build from being truly OP.

The only reason there’s QQ is because there’s a lot of necromancer players that have gone back to their class to try out builds. On the same note, there’s also a big influx of warriors for the same reason.

When people get killed by X class repeatedly (mainly because there’s more people trying out necro builds right now) they scream for nerfs since from their perspective, X class is killing them repeatedly.

The other problem is novelty: Since necros have not been popular for a long time, the counter-play hasn’t developed yet.

Kiriakulos.1690:

We’re bringing a burst condition build into the meta, that has not happened since release.
Builds need to change much more than from previous patches and people are still confused on how to adapt.

Wait. How was there not burst condition builds since launch?

The first build I ever tried after the default sPvP build was 30/30/10, S/D + Staff, Earth/Corruption + Earth, Rabid Am + Zerker jewel. What’s really changed to make this standard pvp build suddenly brokenly overpowered? Burning? Close to Death is STILL better than Dhuumfire. If you don’t take Dhuumfire it’s the same build that people have been using since launch.

Hanzo, it sounds like you are disappointed by Dhuumfire. I tried it out, myself, and found it synergizes best with the Curses line’s Lingering Curse scepter condition duration buff. Add a slice of pizza and some condi duration runes with proc on crit sigils or just sigil of force. Scepter, to me, seemed like a power/axe build equivalent that plays a bit more like conditionmancer.

Dhuumfire does very little, if anything, for MM, wells, and spectral skills. It has some potential with corruption utilities, specifically BiP and Epidemic, but if you are running axe the trade between axe training on a powermancer hybrid and lingering curses on a conditionmancer hybrid may not be significant.

Dhuumfire buffed another hybrid variant for those who want to run scepter and slipped axe training down to master level for those who like axe. The change did enable more damage overall but it is not an OP buff as many had hoped.

Best augment I’ve seen for us being OP, is that thief should be able to 1vs20 and win.
Wells/Marks can bust them invis/damage them invis.

So it’s unfair that any other class can damage them.

Hanzo.9624:

Kiriakulos.1690:

We’re bringing a burst condition build into the meta, that has not happened since release.
Builds need to change much more than from previous patches and people are still confused on how to adapt.

Wait. How was there not burst condition builds since launch?

The first build I ever tried after the default sPvP build was 30/30/10, S/D + Staff, Earth/Corruption + Earth, Rabid Am + Zerker jewel. What’s really changed to make this standard pvp build suddenly brokenly overpowered? Burning? Close to Death is STILL better than Dhuumfire. If you don’t take Dhuumfire it’s the same build that people have been using since launch.

I don’t think the new terrormancer is OP, but adding burning and an extra 1.5 seconds of base fear can easily become over 4k damage above what a terrormancer could do during the cc chain pre-patch.

On classes like Ele and Guardian( classes with minimum base Vit) outright downing them as opposed to just leaving them at 3k HP and alive to disengage, full heal and reengage while your stuff is on cooldown, is a pretty big difference.

Anchoku.8142:

Hanzo, it sounds like you are disappointed by Dhuumfire. I tried it out, myself, and found it synergizes best with the Curses line’s Lingering Curse scepter condition duration buff. Add a slice of pizza and some condi duration runes with proc on crit sigils or just sigil of force. Scepter, to me, seemed like a power/axe build equivalent that plays a bit more like conditionmancer.

Dhuumfire does very little, if anything, for MM, wells, and spectral skills. It has some potential with corruption utilities, specifically BiP and Epidemic, but if you are running axe the trade between axe training on a powermancer hybrid and lingering curses on a conditionmancer hybrid may not be significant.

Dhuumfire buffed another hybrid variant for those who want to run scepter and slipped axe training down to master level for those who like axe. The change did enable more damage overall but it is not an OP buff as many had hoped.

Wait what? Lingering Curse affects on-crit effects? Now I never knew that, I thought it was just a base increase to conditions applied by the Sceptre ie these ones http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scepter#Necromancer_Necromancer

Palmski.6419:

Anchoku.8142:

Hanzo, it sounds like you are disappointed by Dhuumfire. I tried it out, myself, and found it synergizes best with the Curses line’s Lingering Curse scepter condition duration buff. Add a slice of pizza and some condi duration runes with proc on crit sigils or just sigil of force. Scepter, to me, seemed like a power/axe build equivalent that plays a bit more like conditionmancer.

Dhuumfire does very little, if anything, for MM, wells, and spectral skills. It has some potential with corruption utilities, specifically BiP and Epidemic, but if you are running axe the trade between axe training on a powermancer hybrid and lingering curses on a conditionmancer hybrid may not be significant.

Dhuumfire buffed another hybrid variant for those who want to run scepter and slipped axe training down to master level for those who like axe. The change did enable more damage overall but it is not an OP buff as many had hoped.

Wait what? Lingering Curse affects on-crit effects? Now I never knew that, I thought it was just a base increase to conditions applied by the Sceptre ie these ones http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scepter#Necromancer_Necromancer

I think lingering curses literally just applies to sceptor 1 and sceptor 2 effects. I will test now that it has been brought up to verify.

Please do, Rennoko. I have not verified it with Fraps but assumed it true after less rigorous experiments combining multiple methods of condi-duration increase.

People just like to complain, they think if it isn’t Warrior, Theif or Guardian then the class shouldn’t be useful.

Unfortunately they will whine loud enough that you will be nerfed and you will end up back where you started before this patch if not worse.

Signed: A Ranger who sympathizes with your eventual pain.

Anchoku.8142:

Please do, Rennoko. I have not verified it with Fraps but assumed it true after less rigorous experiments combining multiple methods of condi-duration increase.

I can verify that lingering curses has no effect on Earth Sigil or the burning from 30 points in spite. Both effects last the same duration lingering curses on/off.

Running Dhuumfire and Terror at the same time feels like having two builds at the same time.
Signet of Spite has almost no warning while casting and a massive 1200 range.

I’ve actually beaten people 30 ranks above me after the patch, and I’m not good at sPvP.

I don’t think Spectral Wall is overpowered, though.
It’s Signet of Spite having little counterplay and Dhuumfire getting ran along with Terror at the same time.

Dhuumfire should be exclusive to Main-hand Dagger or something.
Not be extra damage for the best Necro build.

As for my build… 30/20/10/0/0/10
You don’t need Master of Terror.
That’s the problem. The Spite traitline gives enough duration anyway.

LastDay.3524:

Running Dhuumfire and Terror at the same time feels like having two builds at the same time.
Signet of Spite has almost no warning while casting and a massive 1200 range.

I’ve actually beaten people 30 ranks above me after the patch, and I’m not good at sPvP.

I don’t think Spectral Wall is overpowered, though.
It’s Signet of Spite having little counterplay and Dhuumfire getting ran along with Terror at the same time.

Dhuumfire should be exclusive to Main-hand Dagger or something.
Not be extra damage for the best Necro build.

As for my build… 30/20/10/0/0/10
You don’t need Master of Terror.
That’s the problem. The Spite traitline gives enough duration anyway.

Spite has a 60 second cooldowns still… and does not really apply the very dangerous condtions. I think most people would prefer you run that over spectral wall, epidemic, corruption boon. I agree that burning should have been tied to something not available so easily with sceptor, but the problem there is everyone will just continue on their merry way and ignore the spite tree.

The only real saving grace with the current build is that you have bad LF generation and are easier to focus down. If you take 30 points elsewhere, its going to reduce burst, but increase survival, and conditions are still going to be everywhere (as people say). It won’t stop the qq.

48 sec with Signet Mastery.
Spite Adept doesn’t really have anything you can’t go on without anyway.

Try using it on a target golem for an optimal situation test.
If it crits it alone brings a golem to around 20% health pretty fast.

Of course people clear condis etc. but given it’s 1 skill from 1200 range and almost impossible to see coming it’s pretty crazy.
For example it makes Mesmers blow their Nullfield and after that you can just pile on condis, Fears included.

Corrupt Boon is great vs builds with tons of Boons of course.
I’ve ran Signet of Spite, Spectral Wall, Spectral Walk quite a bit.
All with cooldown traits.
You can replace Spectral Walk with Well of Corruption or Corrupt Boon if you want.

30 Spite is good in PvE as is.
Thanks to Axe Mastery and Close to Death working with Life Blast.
Making it work better in sPvP and with Dagger could be tricky, though.

Also optionally, if you want, you can grab Training of the Master and Flesh Golem for a surprising amount of extra damage.
I tend to prefer Plague but seen some do that to great effect.

Long cooldowns don’t matter because by the time I trudge to a fight all my skills are off CD anyway. There’s a bright side to bad mobility!

I’m glad that the class has finally been compensated for the fact that once we’re in a fight we can’t really run away. People complain that Necros do a ton of damage (which they did prepatch too) and have loads of defense (also had that prepatch). What they’re forgetting is that when our 1v1 becomes a 3v1 we die. Even Warriors have a few GTFO skills.

That said, I fully expect Necro damage to be nerfed into uselessness in a couple of months. But I’m a bit of a pessimist.

The odd thing is that I don’t have a lot of problems with Condi Necros when playing my S/F Ele. I just DPS them until they’re out of LF, knock them over when they raise their hand to Consume Conditions, then burst them to death. I don’t get what all the fuss is about.

Rennoko.5731:

Anchoku.8142:

Please do, Rennoko. I have not verified it with Fraps but assumed it true after less rigorous experiments combining multiple methods of condi-duration increase.

I can verify that lingering curses has no effect on Earth Sigil or the burning from 30 points in spite. Both effects last the same duration lingering curses on/off.

Thank you, Rennoko. The encouraging results I had from using Dhuumfire on scepter must hace been only from Spite, runes, and food, along with the extended bleed and poison duration. I plan on spending time in rabid gear using scepter and axe on a hybrid build to get a better feel for comparative strength between weapons. Dhuumfire definitely favors a condition damage / duration build versus target the weak.

Will investigate more after work and over the holiday.