Guild Wars 2

Just wondering has anyone stayed Necromancer because they like Death Shroud?

And forgo mobility, extra pulsing stab, stun, aoe fear, and hard melee cleaves? I mean I liked Death Shroud, but Reaper Shroud made DS obsolete.

gavyne.6847:

And forgo mobility, extra pulsing stab, stun, aoe fear, and hard melee cleaves? I mean I liked Death Shroud, but Reaper Shroud made DS obsolete.

I can forgo all that for fun for myself. Hmmm

If that is the case of what you said being true. It seems like some balance needs to be in order.

Give me a faster aa (like the underwater version plague blast) and a more reliable dark path and i may consider going back to DS…

rager.4963:

Just wondering has anyone stayed Necromancer because they like Death Shroud?

cricket noises….tumbleweed rolls past….crows cawing

ZeftheWicked.3076:

rager.4963:

Just wondering has anyone stayed Necromancer because they like Death Shroud?

cricket noises….tumbleweed rolls past….crows cawing

Haha. I am sure some people play like Necromancer over Reaper. I ^^ I don’t know. I just feel like having options of play style>having option of weaker or not.

Let’s be honest – there may be a group that prefers base necro over reaper, sure. But certainly not because of DS. More likely because the needed a base necro traitline in place of the reaper, or just don’t have HoT.

In PvE, RS is totally superior in every single way. There’s not even any contest, its the epitome of P2W for the Necro. Buy HoT and own everything.

In WvW however, I find myself running ye olde regular Necro. In my experience the Reaper is inflexible when roaming and get owned hard when facing most ranged classes, especially when its a couple of them (although it is a T3 camp capping facetank machine). The regular DS AA can hurt people real bad at range, so it doesnt matter if you are CCed or they are trying to kite you. RS while zerg frontlining is a nice change of pace, but ultimately a normal ranged wellbomber beats it IMO (even a frontline wellbomber). You become incredibly reliant on the RS to manouver in the frontlines, which cripple your range. A zerg Necro is simply best when not relying on DS so much, its mostly the staff that put the hurt down.

I still play core necro, not for Death Shroud though.

Since I don’t know much about things. What does core necro offer over reaper? I will get HOT one day, and don’t pvp much. It is just a matter of style. I always enjoyed the caster type of game play. I always enjoyed necromancer. (I use a staff/DS build) and just enjoy the play style. So that is why when I see reaper I just..not feeling it?

rager.4963:

Since I don’t know much about things. What does core necro offer over reaper? I will get HOT one day, and don’t pvp much. It is just a matter of style. I always enjoyed the caster type of game play. I always enjoyed necromancer. (I use a staff/DS build) and just enjoy the play style. So that is why when I see reaper I just..not feeling it?

Instant and longer fear (although not aoe), aoe immobilize, #2 actually hits people so it procs dark path (also, procs a very long chill), range 4-5k crit auto attacks.

Basically reaper’s shroud is really bruiserish : mobility, aoe cleave, fast auto attacks and stability
while death’s shroud is a lot more caster oriented : better cc, aoe damage with better range, long range nukes.

I don’t like new DS even if it has stability and rush and other probably cool stuff. I don’t want to melee stuff in shroud.
I’d like to drop reaper… but then I’ll lose “Rise!”.
Thus, whole utility skill set is not available unless you waste trait line on this new profession. I’m ok with losing greatsword, but why limiting utility? It surely does not promote build diversity, I’m now running blood-death-reaper and I don’t even use greatsword, I use only one skill from the whole traitset – Rise. And funky new shroud.
If I could go something like blood-spite\curses-death and still retain Rise, I’d do this in a second.

Winds.3087:

I don’t like new DS even if it has stability and rush and other probably cool stuff. I don’t want to melee stuff in shroud.
I’d like to drop reaper… but then I’ll lose “Rise!”.
Thus, whole utility skill set is not available unless you waste trait line on this new profession. I’m ok with losing greatsword, but why limiting utility? It surely does not promote build diversity, I’m now running blood-death-reaper and I don’t even use greatsword, I use only one skill from the whole traitset – Rise. And funky new shroud.
If I could go something like blood-spite\curses-death and still retain Rise, I’d do this in a second.

Yeah that whole system is kinda weird. I don’t think a single traitline should give access to weapons/utility.
Or if they want this mechanic, then do it for all the trait lines, for example curses would give you access to corruptions and scepter, etc.

chibbi.3706:

Yeah that whole system is kinda weird. I don’t think a single traitline should give access to weapons/utility.
Or if they want this mechanic, then do it for all the trait lines, for example curses would give you access to corruptions and scepter, etc.

Maybe it’s because of paywall… will never know why they decided it to be like this. Well it makes some sense with chronomancer, those wells are based around it’s flavour. But Rise is clearly MM thing which is death magic.

chibbi.3706:

Yeah that whole system is kinda weird. I don’t think a single traitline should give access to weapons/utility.
Or if they want this mechanic, then do it for all the trait lines, for example curses would give you access to corruptions and scepter, etc.

Maybe it’s because of paywall… will never know why they decided it to be like this. Well it makes some sense with chronomancer, those wells are based around it’s flavour after all. But Rise is clearly MM thing.

If Life Blast attacked faster and Dark Path travelled faster, it would really be a tossup between the two.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If Life Blast attacked faster and Dark Path travelled faster, it would really be a tossup between the two.

For me the stability on RS would still be the clear tie breaker. DS will always be inferior unless it gets at least some small amount of stability somewhere.

rager.4963:

What does core necro offer over reaper?

A combination of 3 core specializations.

rager.4963:

Just wondering has anyone stayed Necromancer because they like Death Shroud?

The current meta in pvp favours the old Necromancer so I’ve been playing it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If Life Blast attacked faster and Dark Path travelled faster, it would really be a tossup between the two.

Pretty much my thoughts on it too.

A source of stability would be nice too, but that could be from utilities or something instead of shroud.

OlliX.1705:

A source of stability would be nice too, but that could be from utilities or something instead of shroud.

If you want to buff Death Shroud then no, it could not come from utilities, especially since utility skills can’t be used in Shroud. Also, a non-Shroud stability source would be available to Reapers as well, so either you’re buffing an already popular skill with stability, in which case both core necro and Reaper would take it and the gap wouldn’t be closer at all. Or it’s a bad or mediocre skill that Reapers wouldn’t take because they get a ton of stability for free, but then you’re forcing core necros to sacrifice a utility slot for this particular bad or mediocre skill just so they can get somewhere close to the stability of RS.

You don’t need stability in death shroud since it’s a range shroud.

With decent positionning and/or dodges you barely ever gets cc’d while at range and even if you do you usually have 2 stunbreakers. I only need stability when i’m going in with reaper shroud to cleave/stomp/aoe.

Talking purely about PvP here.

chibbi.3706:

You don’t need stability in death shroud

wrong

chibbi.3706:

since it’s a range shroud.

wrong

chibbi.3706:

With decent positionning and/or dodges you barely ever gets cc’d while at range

wrong

chibbi.3706:

I only need stability when i’m going in with reaper shroud to cleave/stomp/aoe.

wrong

chibbi.3706:

Talking purely about PvP here.

All of what you said would’ve made just a little more sense if you were talking about PvE.

I did say with a decent positionning.

I’ve never had any problems with cc while dpsing at range in teamfight, so if you do, problem comes from you.

Oh sorry, obviously I didn’t see you say decent positioning, which is totally possible in any PvP match instead of actually fighting on capture points and stuff. You know what will avoid even 100% of all cc? Being afk at spawn.

Just to make it clear, from what you described it sounds like you’re being carried by your team mates while you’re standing as far away as possible so you can sprinkle in the occasional Life Blast. With that kind of mentality you might as well play rifle warrior.

To sum it up:
1. You will always need stability, because…
2. Death Shroud is not a “range shroud”.
3. Even if it was (but it isn’t) every other class has gap closers and/or ranged stuns.
4. And in the unlikely case that you are actually allowed to free cast at range (which is only possible against bad opponents) you are neither capturing nor holding a point.

So the problem in regards to cc-free positioning might not come from you, but this way you are definitely a problem for your team.

flow.6043:

Oh sorry, obviously I didn’t see you say decent positioning, which is totally possible in any PvP match instead of actually fighting on capture points and stuff. You know what will avoid even 100% of all cc? Being afk at spawn.

Just to make it clear, from what you described it sounds like you’re being carried by your team mates while you’re standing as far away as possible so you can sprinkle in the occasional Life Blast. With that kind of mentality you might as well play rifle warrior.

To sum it up:
1. You will always need stability, because…
2. Death Shroud is not a “range shroud”.
3. Even if it was (but it isn’t) every other class has gap closers and/or ranged stuns.
4. And in the unlikely case that you are actually allowed to free cast at range (which is only possible against bad opponents) you are neither capturing nor holding a point.

So the problem in regards to cc-free positioning might not come from you, but this way you are definitely a problem for your team.

I’m not playing base necro, i’m playing reaper, and what i’m saying is when i’m not going melee for stomps or to cleave, then I don’t need to have stability.

Death shroud is mostly a range shroud, you’re not going in the middle of the fight just for a transfusion. You go in at very specific timings when you know it’s safe.

Other classes have gap closers yes, but you’re not gonna have everyone jump at you at the same time, and if they do, you have wurm or signet of plague if you only need a stunbreaker.
Also, most meta classes that would jump at you don’t have that much cc.
On most maps it’s actually very possible to free cast at range, and it’s not your job to capture points as a dps necro.

And i’m sitting at 65% winrate getting in diamond soon while only soloQing, so i don’t think i’m a problem for my team either.

Since you’re playing Reaper the argument is pointless anyway. But the way you’re describing core necro sounds like you’re a liability to your team even though you’re fighting the worst opponents in game.

chibbi.3706:

Death shroud is mostly a range shroud

For special emphasis, this is simply wrong.

flow.6043:

chibbi.3706:

Death shroud is mostly a range shroud

For special emphasis, this is simply wrong.

Well no it isnt wrong. Yes DS is most effective in a 600 range but still, it can be used up to 1200 range. With a max range of 1200, i find it hard to say DS is not a ranged shroud…

Also, while close to it, 600 range is technically still not melee thus i would consider it ranged (mid ranged if you will).

If you guys are talking about PvP, reaper shroud is superior in every way, no if’s and but’s about it. The extra stab will make sure you aren’t tossed around like a ragdoll as much. I say “as much” because even with pulsing stab and extra stab from chilled to the bone, you will still get tossed around a lot in higher ranked pvp.

Nobody in their right mind would allow a necro to just stand there free cast. Teams that don’t focus target necros are bad teams. Death’s Charge is a gap closer you’ll need if you even want to have a chance at fighting in ranked. Stab, mobility, stuns, and extra chills are things reapers have that’ll almost always give them the advantage over a baseline necro in any given fight.

Let’s also make one thing clear, life blast hits like wet noodles outside of 600 range. At under 600 range, you might as well be a reaper and use the melee cleaves and all the goodies that come with a reaper. Seriously, the thing I really do miss from Death Shroud is non-los lifetransfer. Everything else, I simply have not looked back because I enjoy not having that slow, uninspiring, life blast that’s easily dodged and interrupted by any decent player. Or that always unreliable dark path…give me death’s charge any day.

I agree with above poster, death shroud isn’t a good ranged dps form. It shines at under 600 range in every way, even DS 5 & 6 are 600 range. Unfortunately when it comes to under 600 range combat, reaper shroud and the traits/utilities reapers have access to are simply superior.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If Life Blast attacked faster and Dark Path travelled faster, it would really be a tossup between the two.

Yep. I actually quite like Death Shroud, but Dark Path just feels so terrible to use.

Muchacho.2390:

flow.6043:

For special emphasis, this is simply wrong.

Well no it isnt wrong. Yes DS is most effective in a 600 range but still, it can be used up to 1200 range. With a max range of 1200, i find it hard to say DS is not a ranged shroud…

Also, while close to it, 600 range is technically still not melee thus i would consider it ranged (mid ranged if you will).

I know what the up-to range values of Death Shroud are, but that doesn’t mean that Death Shroud is exclusively used at this range. Quite the contrary, the playstyle with Death Shroud is pretty much as melee as Reaper. Not just because – as already pointed out by gavyne – Life Blasts at 600+ range are a waste of life force, but usually you simply don’t have the choice of staying at range at all. Maybe you have to hold/capture a point, maybe your opponent uses gap closers, or maybe you’re up against a kiting opponent (ranger, mesmer,…) that you have to force into melee in order to beat them.
Also, remember that you actually have two weapon sets, one of them probably being a dagger and a warhorn since a power build is the only thing that makes sense when you’re even remotely considering Life Blasts at 600+ range. Of course you don’t walk back and forth as go in and out of DS. Instead, lowest common denominator: the dagger’s range, and this is where you’ll spend most of your time during a fight.
And this is not at all a disadvantage for your time spent in DS. Even though you might have high range on some DS skills, the highest offensive pressure is available at close range. And as it happens, melee range is also where Death Shroud is usually used for its main purpose: a defensive tool. Why? because melee range is where most other classes are strongest as well.
For example: Class X moves super close to you, that probably means you can expect some sort of burst. When you go into DS to absorb this damage, naturally you will apply any follow up counter pressure right away, at melee range, instead of walking away first in order to land some weak sauce Life Blasts at 1200 range.

TLDR: staying at range with Death Shroud is either impossible, counterproductive or wishful thinking.

flow.6043:

Muchacho.2390:

flow.6043:

For special emphasis, this is simply wrong.

Well no it isnt wrong. Yes DS is most effective in a 600 range but still, it can be used up to 1200 range. With a max range of 1200, i find it hard to say DS is not a ranged shroud…

Also, while close to it, 600 range is technically still not melee thus i would consider it ranged (mid ranged if you will).

I know what the up-to range values of Death Shroud are, but that doesn’t mean that Death Shroud is exclusively used at this range. Quite the contrary, the playstyle with Death Shroud is pretty much as melee as Reaper. Not just because – as already pointed out by gavyne – Life Blasts at 600+ range are a waste of life force, but usually you simply don’t have the choice of staying at range at all. Maybe you have to hold/capture a point, maybe your opponent uses gap closers, or maybe you’re up against a kiting opponent (ranger, mesmer,…) that you have to force into melee in order to beat them.
Also, remember that you actually have two weapon sets, one of them probably being a dagger and a warhorn since a power build is the only thing that makes sense when you’re even remotely considering Life Blasts at 600+ range. Of course you don’t walk back and forth as go in and out of DS. Instead, lowest common denominator: the dagger’s range, and this is where you’ll spend most of your time during a fight.
And this is not at all a disadvantage for your time spent in DS. Even though you might have high range on some DS skills, the highest offensive pressure is available at close range. And as it happens, melee range is also where Death Shroud is usually used for its main purpose: a defensive tool. Why? because melee range is where most other classes are strongest as well.
For example: Class X moves super close to you, that probably means you can expect some sort of burst. When you go into DS to absorb this damage, naturally you will apply any follow up counter pressure right away, at melee range, instead of walking away first in order to land some weak sauce Life Blasts at 1200 range.

TLDR: staying at range with Death Shroud is either impossible, counterproductive or wishful thinking.

Well that is all true (and i never claimed otherwise) but it is still false to say that DS is not ranged. For me “ranged” is simply defined by how far you abilities will go not by its effectiveness at different distances.

played and mained necro since original release..

reaper shroud > death shroud in pretty much every aspect. There’s things to like about DS thematically, but if you’re even a slight shred of a competitive player in any aspect, RS will win.

Death Shroud isn’t ranged tool. Mid-range (melee-600/900) at best. Life Blast, Doom – both are improved in close range. Dark Path – moves into melee.

I’d love to play Necromancer without Reaper, but it has Deathly Chill. I’m not a fan of this E-spec, as I’ve expressed many times, but I understand that since Specialization patch, devs balance around Reaper, not Necromancer.

Which is obviously bad, but I won’t fight it.

Reaper brings a lot of things to necro that we’ve been lacking for the last few years.

Burn
Large amounts of poison that last longer than .5 seconds
Stability (Something we used to sell our bodies for)
Mobility (reaper charge on reliable cooldown)
AoE Stun
Melee centric shroud skills (since dagger is one of the most popular weapons next to scepter)

in the current meta, death shroud provides:
a long cd gap closer that requires target connection and fails most of the time
a short fear (excess) that can also be blocked.
AoE(same as RS, but hits for less)
AoE torment (this didn’t accomplish what Anet said they were trying to reinforce on the necro as an attrition class)

A lot of the DS toolset is stale and unneeded. The reaper shroud lunge skill alone makes us more of a lock-down chaser class than torment does, which is weird because Anet has been trying to make us the sole “attrition unstoppable chaser” type class thematically for forever.

I thought I would like DS more than RS, but after playing Reaper in PVP the shroud is soooooo much better. Stability pulses, great cleave, great mobility (for a necro) an awesome aoe stun and chill, poison, and it just feels so much more fluid and the scythe is freaking awesome.

I really like DS over RS, but if you wanna PvP you need the stab, so…

DS really pales in comparison to RS for condi builds. Life Blast is completely pointless for anything other than power damage. Life Transfer is a total joke vs soul spiral. Dark path feels gross when you have to give up Terror to make it really hurt. The Fear in DS isn’t what it used to be, which leaves Tainted Shackles as the ace in the hole for a condi spec, and it simply isn’t enough.
As a condi traitline, Reaper is far better than the other options, especially since it goes so nicely with Spite and Soul Reaping.