I vote for a healer Elite

I vote for a healer Elite

in Necromancer

Posted by: Rikimaru.7890

Rikimaru.7890

In GW1 Necromancers were a force to be reckoned with, so how did they fall so low in GW2? Don’t try to make excuses now because I heard it all.
Let me explain how it happened, it’s because the builds they used back in GW1 have no way to appear in GW2. Other classes like the Elementalist or Warrior remain similar in playstyle as their GW1 counterparts.
Necromancers however had very specific builds which arguably were the most powerful in the game, however they had 1 loophole which made them unfit for team builds. I’ll get to that soon, but first I will mention a few of the most popular ones and why they would not work in GW2.

- The SS Nuker i.e. Spiteful Spirit, there are several skills with SS initials, however when someone said “SS” it nearly always ment “Spiteful Spirit”.
Spiteful Spirit is an Elite hex spell which causes enemies to take damage when they attack or use a skill. Basically a hex is something like conditions, only their effects are unique and much more deadly. Spiteful Spirit only targets 1 enemy however the damage is AoE so by casting it on multiple targets the damage stacks. Even better is the fact it’s damage ignores armour, so it is a “good for all” skill. In GW1 this build could melt legions of enemies in seconds, which is why it was often used for Duo Underworld i.e. 1 tank 1 spiker. However we can’t have it in GW2 because there are no hexes here and even if we did it would probably have 180 sec recharge instead of 10 as in GW1.

- Minion Master, ok, ok we can do that too here, but it’s nowhere near the level from GW1. For starters in GW1 you couldn’t have just 1 minion per skill, you can summon multiple minions of each type. There is a limit of how many minions you can have at once though, mostly it’s up to 11 with 12 being the absolute limit. In GW1 minions require corpses to summon and they die over time, which is why a MM would constantly recycle them. The build worked far better in GW1 though, for starters GW1 minions can function as pseudo-tanks. Because the AI will cause enemies to attack the “weakest” opponents first and minions were nearly always the weakest. So while enemies are playing with the minions the rest can blow them to kingdom come and once they start dying the MM starts producing new minions. The build also has far greater tricks to it, like the MM can cast “Death Nova” on their minions to make them explode when they die or a Monk can cast “Dwayna’s Sorrow” on the minions which causes all party members to gain health when they die or you can do both and more.
The build cannot be so great in GW2 however, because for starters we cannot rely on corpses and thus the build has to be nerfed. In GW1 you fight platoons not single enemies 1 by 1 so there aren’t enough corpses in the game to make the build so elaborate. And so we have a “skill limit” instead of a “corpse limit”.

- BiP i.e. “Blood is Power” yes this is a skill in GW2 too, however in GW1 it was used to give other classes what they wish they had when they think about Necromancers.
Necromancers in GW1 regain energy when something near them dies so they almost never run out. Blood is Power is an Elite enchantment which a Necromancer can only cast on someone else and it causes the target to regenerate energy much faster than normal. Which is why BiP is often called a “battery” as all they do is keep casting that 1 spell on everyone over and over, so the party never runs out of fuel. However again we can’t do that in GW2 because there is no energy in GW2 …. ugh.

Now what is that “loophole” I talked about? Well it’s simple while the Necromancer builds are practically unmatched they cannot be mass used i.e. if you have 1 Necro with such a build you don’t bring more. The SS can possibly cause more damage than any other build, however 2 or more SS Nec’s would only get in each others way. Casting SS on same target twice would do nothing so 2 players using this build would often just cause conflicts. So it works like this:

SS Necromancer > Elementalist
4 SS Necromancers < 4 Elementalists

Yes Elementalists using their nuking builds together will stack their damage while SS Necromancers not really. Exception to this rule is the Elite mission “The Deep” where people sometimes do take multiple SS Necro’s as the pro’s outweigh the con’s there.
Next the Minion Master is also usually only 1 because more would not have enough corpses to build their minion army. An exception to this rule is Bogroot Growths dungeon as there are so many corpses there that more than 1 MM can actually work, however even then most people only bring 1 MM there.
And as for BiP it’s pretty simple, 1 battery is enough, 2 would just be dead weight.

I vote for a healer Elite

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Posted by: Rikimaru.7890

Rikimaru.7890

So yes main PvE Necro builds from GW1 simply have no place in GW2. However there is another meta build in GW1 which is the Necromancer Healer build. It’s not a build for players mind you, as it’s mostly used by Hero’s. Hero’s are allied NPC’s in GW1 which you can costumize just like your own character. However Hero’s have limited AI and thus they will not manage their energy properly, thus Necro hero’s are used as healers because they never run out of energy. Of course a player healer will almost never be a Necro in GW1, but maybe that’s what they should do in GW2.

Ok the main problem here is that Necromancers are suppose to “gain power from death” and that’s what they do, but it’s mostly good for survival, which is actully bad in this case. You see it means that by the very concept Necromancers cannot be as good at doing damage as Elementalists because they would be too OP then. If Necro’s delt damage comparable to Ele then why would anyone use them? Since Necro does about the same damage, but can also survive a lot more punishment than Ele who needs them then? So if you still have hopes that Necro’s will ever deal damage comparable to Ele you can forget it.
However Necro’s could become healer’s instead through a new Elite spec like say “Vampire Lord”. Where they don’t exactly heal but instead grant effects which cause party member’s to steal a lot of health, which would be both healing and bonus damage. The Shroud would also gain new effects where it rips life force from enemies and feeds it to party members to restore their health.

So yes I vote for a healer elite spec. Necro’s will never replace Ele’s but they could replace Druid’s.

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Posted by: Quarktastic.1027

Quarktastic.1027

Without reading that huge wall of text: No.

My ranger already got shafted with the druid spec. I don’t want the same nonsense happening to my necromancer.

Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Necro need a healer elite?

Do we have any other class in the game with a skill that can pump out a ~12-14K AoE heal (per person, not total) that also put 30ish stacks of bleed on enemies in the same AoE, on a 25s cd?

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Posted by: Sun Lian.4075

Sun Lian.4075

Why would you want necros to replace druids?

Most problems with balance between classes are because every class is able to do almost everything.
Besides, you can already heal too much on necro if you make a build just aimed at that.

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

The necromancer need an elite spec that allow him some usefull support not necessarily an healing spec.

So yes I vote for a healer elite spec. Necro’s will never replace Ele’s but they could replace Druid’s

Druids are used as healer not primarily for their heals but for all the extras that come with their heals. If you remove all the extra, you’d take a ventari revenant. You take a druid because it can : heal, freely give non prioritary boons (regen/swiftness/fury), give free precision (spotter), grant increase condi/direct damage (grace of the land), grant extra damage via spirits and have great tactical hard CC.

Why would you even take a necro with a healing spec against this beast that is the druid? The necro need to be even with the extra he will grant to be taken as a healer and that’s where there is a need for a lot of work.

Our support as it is now is not competitive and more heal won’t make it better. Like Dawdler said we are already able to spit out large healing number and this does not make us more competitive in any way.

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: mazut.4296

mazut.4296

I would like one day to get healing elite spec. But you are not right about gw1. Necro was healer ONLY while using skills from its secondary profession. So it was never a real healer, unless you count stealing hp as healer ^^

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Posted by: Methuselah.4376

Methuselah.4376

I absolutely adored necro in GW1 and I agree that it is FAR superior to necro in GW2. However, I cannot agree with a healer’s spec. As mentioned, in GW1 you would need to take Monk/Ritualist as a secondary profession in order to heal your party properly. There were some necro skills that provided some group healing but they were far inferior to monk/ritualist spells. Now life stealing was something I used to LOVE to play in faction battles…no one could kill me so long as I was not constantly interrupted! However, as pointed out many times over the years, our life stealing powers in GW2 suck donkey balls.

In GW2 play style, we would be more useful in parties if, say, Lingering Curse was a trait that could affect everyone similar to Pinpoint Distribution which means that party members not only get a condi buff but also duration. Or have an Elite spec that is similar to the ritualist (as suggested in this forum) where you can make use of spirits that offer a myriad of offensive and defensive capabilities.

We have yet to see what the Scourge will be like and it might very well be to our liking. I believe I read that once the expansion comes out they will also rework reaper a bit to be more power centered as Scourge will be the condi elite (something I totally agree with). Hopefully we might be able to compete with condi ranger….though torch seems to be a main hand weapon rather than an offhand, which means we cant synergize it with scepter in the same set. I’m hoping the image we saw was a mirror image…but I don’t think it was.

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Posted by: Wintermute.5408

Wintermute.5408

I don’t think we need healer spec as much as support one. Like, ability to give meaningful buffs to the team is THE problem with PVE necro since forever. Give us something akin to what Chrono was for mesmers.

And no, as much as I love blood magic, on its own it’s not enough.

Welcome to Rivendell, mister Anderson

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Posted by: mazut.4296

mazut.4296

I see necro more as preventing the party from taking damage then direct healing. Might have support in form of better hp steals.
Protective shields that deal damage/harm the enemies(similar to Vengeful Hammers). Also Some heals/effect that use Life force as source. The more LF you have the longer you can use some skills(again similar to Revenant Vengeful Hammers).
Or the more LF you have, the more powerful the skill execution are. 100%/80%/60% or 100%/75%…etc)
Which probably will lead to the need of bit better LF generation.
Or enter stance where you redirect part of the damage from your party to the necro, and get some benefits from it.
And so on… Many possibilities, but none of them will even be in the game

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Posted by: Sublimatio.6981

Sublimatio.6981

no.

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Posted by: Emapudapus.1307

Emapudapus.1307

If you are true necro, all you need is dmg.

all is vain