If bleed cap goes up...

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Posted by: Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

Would you rather keep Dhuumfire as a burning applicator, or change it to stack bleeds in DS, instead?

It occurred to me that lifting the bleed cap might make the whole point of giving Necromancer burning moot because burning was a way for Necro to do additional condition damage. There was effectively no cap in PvP 1:1 and no cap in solo but WvW and end-game PvE might cap bleeds.

Right now, Dhuumfire is the only burning Necro has access to so it is an expensive trait in that burning support runes and sigils do not benefit any other aspect of Necromancer.

What do think?

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Still important that it’s burning and not bleeds because cleanses exist.

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Posted by: Balekai.6083

Balekai.6083

Still important that it’s burning and not bleeds because cleanses exist.

I agree. To a condi Necro, Dhuumfire’s burning will act as a cover condition in addition to extra DPS, allowing for whatever condis you stacked before entering it (along with Dark Path, Tainted Shackles and to a lesser extent Doom) to be safer from cleanses.

Edit: I guess you could also argue that there’s another extra advantage of having one more condi available to trigger more benefit from things like Target the Weak or Feast of Corruption, regardless of how small that boost may be.

(edited by Balekai.6083)

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Posted by: Toxsa.2701

Toxsa.2701

But.. but burning stacks in intensity after the patch too!
Even though it may be cap at 5, that’s still around 35 stacks of bleeding.

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

But.. but burning stacks in intensity after the patch too!
Even though it may be cap at 5, that’s still around 35 stacks of bleeding.

The damage of burning is also being reduced.

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Posted by: Strill.2591

Strill.2591

But.. but burning stacks in intensity after the patch too!
Even though it may be cap at 5, that’s still around 35 stacks of bleeding.

If you look at how burning stacks in the livestream, you’ll note that the first stack of burning has the biggest effect, while subsequent stacks make much less difference.

(edited by Strill.2591)

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Posted by: Toxsa.2701

Toxsa.2701

But.. but burning stacks in intensity after the patch too!
Even though it may be cap at 5, that’s still around 35 stacks of bleeding.

If you look at how burning stacks in the livestream, you’ll note that the first stack of burning has the biggest effect, while subsequent stacks make much less difference.

Can you please give-me the exact ratio please? I don’t watch livestream :/
Like how much less damage according to your observation?

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

But.. but burning stacks in intensity after the patch too!
Even though it may be cap at 5, that’s still around 35 stacks of bleeding.

If you look at how burning stacks in the livestream, you’ll note that the first stack of burning has the biggest effect, while subsequent stacks make much less difference.

The stacks are simply of the burning condition, there is no unique difference between them for the necromancer. Maybe you’re mistaken due to the physical damage of the life blast.

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Posted by: Shiki.7148

Shiki.7148

I actually think that, with Burning going to stacking, it should return to the old Dumbfire where everything triggers it (maybe with a short icd and only on crits). That might be worth taking.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140

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Posted by: Balekai.6083

Balekai.6083

I actually think that, with Burning going to stacking, it should return to the old Dumbfire where everything triggers it (maybe with a short icd and only on crits). That might be worth taking.

Well the problem with any ICD would be that it would ever only trigger once, so with the reduced damage the 1 stack, even if it had a long duration, would probably be ineffective. Having it trigger on crits only would make it a GM that’s precision build centric (which Anet seems to be trying to get away from e.g. Barbed Precision/Hemophilia merger.).

Remember with Unyielding Blast you can turn LB into a multi-target hitting burning AA with no ICD. So you can spread that burning to 4 targets. With positioning, you can easily hit 2 targets in any mode with UB traited. In PvE if there’s 4 enemies we can usually line them up all or target the farthest in a mob stack.

Regardless, the burning on LB gives us an excuse to use LB with better effectiveness, instead of just activating DS for the damage absorption, the other skills or trying to finish players with a very low damaging LB (especially against high AR toons). The old version of Dhuumfire with a longer ICD triggering on all attacks was already deemed “too OP,” so one without is probably still a no go.

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Posted by: Ragnar the Rock.3174

Ragnar the Rock.3174

From what I saw on the live stream the base effect at 80 of burning was around 130 ish damage a second.

Who knows how well it will scale.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Burning tooltips from the AMA stream showed Burning to be sitting at 131 damage/second base. The Necro had no condition damage.

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Posted by: Toxsa.2701

Toxsa.2701

Burning tooltips from the AMA stream showed Burning to be sitting at 131 damage/second base. The Necro had no condition damage.

That is a pretty big nerf if you ask me XD.
Burning used to scale better the lower your condition damage. Now it’s only like 2.5 times of the bleeding.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Yes, because burning having such a high base damage was part of the massive celestial problem we had. It didn’t make sense that non-condition builds were killing someone with conditions. Plus we don’t know the new scaling.

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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

If bleed cap goes up I look forward to dropping Spike Trap, throwing my torch, bringing my targets health down to 75% for Sharpening Stone to proc, dropping Entangle, using Split Blade -> Hunter’s Call -> Crippling Talon and watching bleed stacks reach up to 30 or higher on my trapper in less than 15seconds.

Where as on my Necro… I look forward to maybe being able to reach 25 in the first place, let alone passing 25…

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
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Posted by: Ragnar the Rock.3174

Ragnar the Rock.3174

Burning tooltips from the AMA stream showed Burning to be sitting at 131 damage/second base. The Necro had no condition damage.

That is a pretty big nerf if you ask me XD.
Burning used to scale better the lower your condition damage. Now it’s only like 2.5 times of the bleeding.

It will stack in intensity though.

So depending on how well they look at things that apply it & adjust the number of stacks/how long they are applies correctly it could be a nice change.

That being said since it will no longer be at max damage the instant you apply it it does create the need for guardian to have access to a second damaging condition.

My vote would be for torment.

How about for something like “Whenever you apply burning to an already burning target you also apply X seconds of torment”

it would be a good cover condition & fit well since they don’t want guardians to have ready access to cripples/slows.