Guild Wars 2

Would that solve most of the complaints?

It would solve most of mine.

I actually think we are under-reacting to the consume conditions mega nerf. The fact is that its our own even semi viable heal in pvp. Its “ok”. It is not great because it can be easily countered by good players.

The main problem is we condition necromancer is dead because you can’t take terror if you want to have a viable heal. Consume conditions on a 30s cd with a 1.25s cast and gives you vulnerability isn’t viable at all. It is terrible. And it hurts EVERY single necro builds. Every one. The 5 second increased cooldown is a much bigger issue than the vulnerability. This is OUR ONLY HEALING on any condi spec. And it is being nerfed by 20%. We are essentially getting our sustain nerfed by 20%. This is beyond huge. This game has no healers and so every class needs to have a viable heal in order for it to be even remotely useful. It is of critical importance.

I dont think any of the traits will change. But maybe we can persuade anet to not make CC a corruption skill. To just leave it as it is. Heck, at this point I will be happy with this outcome.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Would that solve most of the complaints?

No.

Lordrosicky.5813:

This game has no healers and so every class needs to have a viable heal in order for it to be even remotely useful. It is of critical importance.

It’s definitely of critical importance for the one class that can’t be healed by allies half the time at all.

Ice Furl.4982:

it was probobly the strongest healing skill across any proffession so I am not surprised to see it take a hit.

Clearly you’ve started playing necro only yesterday (or maybe even the game?) so we’ll forgive your ignorance.

The only good thing about Consume Conditions is its utility, the full cleanse. The actual heal on the other hand is bad, it’s bad compared to the healing skills of other professions and it’s especially bad in context of how our class works. We have the highest health pool and no other defensive mechanic but face tanking, one might assume that such a class actually has the best healing of all classes but for now we’re stuck with life force regen and a single heal that fills on average about ~25% of our total hp every 25 seconds. In actual fights this translates to not being able to recover from damage at all unless we get out of combat again.

Now, the Consume nerf means several things:

1. The full cleanse isn’t actually a full cleanse anymore. The ONE thing this heal had going for it won’t work anymore. (don’t worry, our other healing skills are still worse than Consume so we’re stuck with it)
Well great, if I want to counteract this issue alone I’m forced to take extra cleanses like Shrouded Removal, Spiteful Renewal or Plague Sending. Not that these traits aren’t decent, but the latter two are rng based or depend on factors you can’t control and Shrouded Removal is now in a specialization that no one except minion masters will ever use again because the staff traits were move away. Either way, our build diversity takes another small hit.

2. The cooldown is higher.
Now this one is completely uncalled for, and I’m sure the only reason the cd was raised in the first place is because Anet wanted to buff some corruption skills indirectly by buffing Master of Corruption. But increasing the cd reduction of the trait to 33% would’ve made Consume Conditions have a 16 seconds cooldown, and apparently they thought 20 seconds is as low as they want to go so just bump the base cd up to 30 sec.

First of all, even a 16 second Consume wouldn’t have nearly been as much healing as we actually need. The amount it heals for is just laughable. So maybe they were worried about giving us that full cleanse (which isn’t actually full) on such a low coodlown? Clearly not, otherwise they wouldn’t have added traits like Plague Sending as the only reasonable choice in adept tier (until people go Chilling Darkness + Reaper).
So basically Curses has been reduced to a mandatory Plague Sending (because there is no other choice) and Master of Corruption (so your heal doesn’t suck). Terror and Path of Corruption – the current standard picks for condi builds – completely take a back seat, and the only realy choice you’ve got left is: Weakening Shroud vs Parasitic Contagion vs Lingering Curse.

So again, would the shelter treatment help? A little, but it doesn’t solve any other issues with Curses either.

Consume conditions and curses are my two biggest complaints about the changes. Now, that doesn’t address the fact that all of our weapons except warhorn need love, that we still need some QoL fixes to other skills, that our heals need to be buffed, and plenty of other issues, but at least consume conditions being treated like shelter would resolve half of the problems I have with the changes being made. The other half would require curses to be fixed.

It is ofcourse very frustrating that CC is getting nerfed but keep in mind that it was probobly the strongest healing skill across any proffession so I am not surprised to see it take a hit. It is still going to be very viable even with 5 second longer cd.
There is alot of power creep coming to the necro like the other classes and sacrifices must be mde in the name of balance.

Bhawb.7408:

Consume conditions and curses are my two biggest complaints about the changes. Now, that doesn’t address the fact that all of our weapons except warhorn need love, that we still need some QoL fixes to other skills, that our heals need to be buffed, and plenty of other issues, but at least consume conditions being treated like shelter would resolve half of the problems I have with the changes being made. The other half would require curses to be fixed.

I agree. Lots of problems with curses and no upside to allot of the changes. Especially when we compare it to other professions condition line. Some traits are exactly the same which is bad because the compared profession has double or triple the attack speed we currently have, other changes just kill us like master of corruptions and then we have traits that sit on top of each other such as terror and path of corruption.

But if you’re a conditionmancer, you’ll be doing like 15000 dps and getting 10% of that as health every second

Ice Furl.4982:

It is ofcourse very frustrating that CC is getting nerfed but keep in mind that it was probobly the strongest healing skill across any proffession so I am not surprised to see it take a hit. It is still going to be very viable even with 5 second longer cd.
There is alot of power creep coming to the necro like the other classes and sacrifices must be mde in the name of balance.

CoCo probably the strongest heal? It’s nowhere near the strongest heal, high cooldown, low HPS, obvious animation, long cast time but only upside is that it cleansed all condis. I would gladly take Thief’s Withdraw on my necro over other heals. Instant immob cleanse, otherwise you need to cast transfer skills which can get interrupted or dodged.

consume condition needs to be left as is and other heals get buffed to be useful

Lordrosicky.5813:

Would that solve most of the complaints?

It would solve most of mine.

I actually think we are under-reacting to the consume conditions mega nerf. The fact is that its our own even semi viable heal in pvp. Its “ok”. It is not great because it can be easily countered by good players.

The main problem is we condition necromancer is dead because you can’t take terror if you want to have a viable heal. Consume conditions on a 30s cd with a 1.25s cast and gives you vulnerability isn’t viable at all. It is terrible. And it hurts EVERY single necro builds. Every one. The 5 second increased cooldown is a much bigger issue than the vulnerability. This is OUR ONLY HEALING on any condi spec. And it is being nerfed by 20%. We are essentially getting our sustain nerfed by 20%. This is beyond huge. This game has no healers and so every class needs to have a viable heal in order for it to be even remotely useful. It is of critical importance.

I dont think any of the traits will change. But maybe we can persuade anet to not make CC a corruption skill. To just leave it as it is. Heck, at this point I will be happy with this outcome.

Those 10 stacks of vulnerable will draw pressure to you, ensuring that if your low and just succeeded in healing you will be focused to death so it’s even worse than you make it sound.

A: On consideration . . . probably, yes.

I hate the Plague change, but I could live with it because I use Plague more often for utility than for its full duration.

As to the necessary traits overlapping . . . well, were Consume reverted it would be between Terror and Path of Corruption. I’m not sure there’s a good answer there, but traits can always be moved around when the proof manifests in matches.

It’s been said over and over: If they want players to consider using the other heals, make them better; don’t make the good one worse. Nothing that heals for a similar amount but doesn’t clear conditions will compare with Consume. And Signet of Vampirism healing in DS is meaningless. Your main attack in DS has a 1 second cast time, plus travel time, and hits hard so is a priority to dodge. How many of those are you going to land in 6 seconds? Or are you going to blow Life Transfer just to get 3 quick ticks? Keep in mind the base heal per hit is 392 (you will have no Healing Power). If the change goes through, people will still take Consume (I mean, since Antitoxin Spray is being removed and all).

If they revert Consume to an uncategorized spell and its prior numbers, it would still have problems, but everything would be a lot easier to swallow.

I used to play another MMO years ago, and I remember looking at the changes to talents and abilites of one class — not my main, just a fun one I used sometimes as an alt — and noticing that within these talents and abilities there were lots of tradeoffs: a buff for a debuff, damage done for damage taken. It was all very neat, but the problem was that other classes could do these things without the cost. It was like the design teams were operating on different theories from one another.

This seems to be the case here as well. Someone said it somewhat roughly in another post, but the whole notion of the Corruption skill type doesn’t appear to have been executed in a way that works. Making more — especially core — abilities Corruptions is a poor change. One can imagine the meetings:

Necromancer Designer: So we’ve gone ahead and made Consume Conditions a Corruption. It can benefit from traits, but now it gives the caster Vulnerability, so you’ve got to make a tough choice and walk the tightrope between life and death! How about you?

Guardian Designer: That’s cool. Yeah. Us? Uh . . . we just left Shelter as it is. Figured it worked fine, why screw with it, you know?

I know there are many posts about the Consume Conditions changes but I couldn’t find a definitive answer to the following questions.

What if your Consume Conditions get interrupted?

It’s very common in PvP so I am wondering if:-

1. It will still go on full cool down (I am assuming yes).

2. You don’t remove any existing Conditions (I am assuming yes).

3. You will also get the 10 stacks of vulnerability added to whatever other conditions you already had.

4. If you slot the trait you also get the additional Condition?

If 3. and 4. apply that all seems a little unfair. Players are already well used to interrupting a Necro’s heal so this will give them all the more incentive to do so.

Rav.9475:

I know there are many posts about the Consume Conditions changes but I couldn’t find a definitive answer to the following questions.

What if your Consume Conditions get interrupted?

It’s very common in PvP so I am wondering if:-

1. It will still go on full cool down (I am assuming yes).

2. You don’t remove any existing Conditions (I am assuming yes).

3. You will also get the 10 stacks of vulnerability added to whatever other conditions you already had.

4. If you slot the trait you also get the additional Condition?

If 3. and 4. apply that all seems a little unfair. Players are already well used to interrupting a Necro’s heal so this will give them all the more incentive to do so.

If consume conditions gets interrupted it does not go on cooldown. You can test this is the game right now by casting it and dodge rolling halfway through the cast time.

OK I am not sure about it not going on full cool down – not sure if dodge rolling is the same as interrupting or cancelling. I have had it interrupted many times and seem to remember it not going on full cool down but can’t be certain.

Anyway, what about the other points?

I am hoping that 3 and 4 don’t apply as the skill never completed (ie. the Vulnerability and other condition only get applied at the very end of the skill).

Rav.9475:

What if your Consume Conditions get interrupted?

I think it would be an improvement to have the extra vuln applied at the start of the cast, so when you actually make it through the agonizingly long cast time you are “rewarded” by consuming it for some extra hp, assuming you didn’t have vulnerability already.
This way it would still fit the currption skill theme but you’d avoid being in combat for a longer time after using it as a cleanse.
Also, it would create another element to Consume Condition’s counterplay: you take more damage while casting it and if it’s interrupted the vulnerability stays on you. And in my opinion, this would warrent leaving the regular cooldown at 25 seconds or 16 seconds if traited.