Improving Deathly Chill - Suggestions

Improving Deathly Chill - Suggestions

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Posted by: Kydar Schattendolch.6879

Kydar Schattendolch.6879

Hi fellow necs, ANet and all other

I think like me many of you muss the odt “Deathly Chill” and I think I can live with the new version, if there would be a few tweas, because as it stands atm, its in my opinion not GM worthy.

So, this is what I suggest to make this trate more viable again:

1: Increase the inflicted bleeding stacks from 1 to 2

This would compensate for the huge dmg loss by removing the chill dmg much more than the 1 stack it’s actually.

or

2: Rename to Frost burn: Inflict 1 Stack of Burn for 4s everytine you chill a foe

Same funktionality as it is now but much better compensated for the lost dmg due to burn condition. This would the necro also give more options to inflict burn.

Edit: New suggestion (for more see post below):
Deathly Chill (or rename to: Tormenting Chill)
Everytime you chill a foe you also inflict 2 stacks of torment for 8s and you recieve 1 stack of Chilling Might/Power for 10s. Your conditions deal 2% more damage per stack (max. 5 Stacks).

Any thoughts?

(edited by Kydar Schattendolch.6879)

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

how about rename it toxic chill and make it afflict poison. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Toxic_Chill And increase poison duration.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

1. 2 bleeds is viable, but it’s boring and potentially a fairly high burst potential (though with longish cooldowns and visibility when it’s coming). It’s not a bad way to handle it.

2. The burst with burns is too high. A dev said they toyed around with using Burning but combos like Rs5→4 was too devastating. I tend to agree.

Personally:
I think 2 torment for 8 seconds is the best idea. For one, Necromancers deserve more Torment access and a bitter cold sounds fairly tormenting. It does good damage, but does more with an enemy playing bad/has counter play for the enemy. Lastly, due to the nature of the Rs5→4 combo stunning initially, it helps curb the initial burst of the combo by nature of movement prevention, while still remaining fully impactful in normal play.

In general, 2 torment for 8 seconds makes the most sense and supports comboing with Fear (our other niche) to secure burst damage.

That’s my two cents.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

how about rename it toxic chill and make it afflict poison. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Toxic_Chill And increase poison duration.

I already suggested that, Karl McLaine said they didn’t want DC to have any additional utility, its intention was purely offensive.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Kydar Schattendolch.6879

Kydar Schattendolch.6879

“The reason it’s bleed and not something like poison is that this trait is intended to be a DPS add instead of another debilitating effect.”

This is, what ANet said in AMA to the update to this. Add poison has another debilitating effect (heal reduction), and to don’t reject this decision, i made the following suggestions.

Incresed Poison duration could be with Furious Demise (Minor II Curses). It can be replaces with Increased Poison Duration by 33% or somewhat^^

2. The burst with burns is too high. A dev said they toyed around with using Burning but combos like Rs5->4 was too devastating. I tend to agree.

In that fact, u could make it a 1s ICD per foe…this would prevent from stacking it that high with DS 5—>4

I also thought about torment and I think if it would be replaced, 2 stacks are ok for this (like bleeding).

Lower amounts are not GM worthy IMO^^

(edited by Kydar Schattendolch.6879)

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Posted by: Avigrus.2871

Avigrus.2871

Change it back to chill – i don’t care if it overlaps with other chill. Reduce the damage if need be. Halve the damage even. It’s the consistent dps from chill that was helping out the condi reaper.

2 bleeds – i would still not take the trait. It’s a grandmaster trait.

80 Necro (5), 80 Guard (4), 80 Mesmer (3)
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Posted by: Brokensunday.4098

Brokensunday.4098

change it’s name to brain freeze and make it apply torment and confusion

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

I don’t get it … if they want a pure DPS add on chill effect, the solution isn’t a bleed, it’s simply:

“When you apply chill, chill does X damage”.

Boring? Yes. Does anyone really care? Not likely.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

change it’s name to brain freeze and make it apply torment and confusion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Brainfreeze/first#post3182686
Lol all that time ago.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

They could also give the trait some group utility. Such as increasing condition damage on foes, much like Valn. Although that might be boring. Or only increasing your condi damage against chilled foes. Which would be useful but boring.

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Posted by: Kydar Schattendolch.6879

Kydar Schattendolch.6879

What about this:

Everytime you chill a foe you inflict 1 stack of bleed for 8s.
If your foe has swifness you additionally inflict one stack of torment for 8s. If your enemy has no swiftness, you inflict a second stack of bleeding for 8s.

This would increase the dps in pve with mostly 2 stacks bleed and also be maybe a little bit more interesting for wvw and pvp.

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Posted by: Brokensunday.4098

Brokensunday.4098

What about this:

Everytime you chill a foe you inflict 1 stack of bleed for 8s.
If your foe has swifness you additionally inflict one stack of torment for 8s. If your enemy has no swiftness, you inflict a second stack of bleeding for 8s.

This would increase the dps in pve with mostly 2 stacks bleed and also be maybe a little bit more interesting for wvw and pvp.

you gave me a nice idea

hitting a chilled foe apply’s conditions for each hit or hitting a chilled foe corrups a boon
1s internal cooldown

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Posted by: Icewolfnector.1487

Icewolfnector.1487

To quote myself from another topic:

“Just though about somehting that I think could make the trait interesting again. With the right numbers of course.
What about making it act like this:

1 bleed evertime you apply chill (like now)
+ increase the damage of your bleeds by X% on chilled foes

It think this would give good synergy with the trait helping to apply aditional bleeds and at the same time buff the damage of your other bleeds while you have got your opponent chilled.
This way chill on it’s own won’t be as dangerous anymore. If the enemy cleanses your bleeds the damage is gone even if he is still chilled. And the other way around if he cleanses the chill and still got some bleed on him, he still maged to reduce your condi damge and of course get rid of the usual chill debuffs."

Also it would give some use to loger duration chills damage whise

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Posted by: Kydar Schattendolch.6879

Kydar Schattendolch.6879

Or only increasing your condi damage against chilled foes. Which would be useful but boring.

To quote myself from another topic:

“Just though about somehting that I think could make the trait interesting again. With the right numbers of course.
What about making it act like this:

1 bleed evertime you apply chill (like now)
+ increase the damage of your bleeds by X% on chilled foes

I had a similar Idea of those today.
What’s with:

Deathly Chill (or rename to: Tormenting Chill)
Everytime you chill a foe you also inflict 2 stacks of torment for 8s and you recieve 1 stack of Chilling Might/Power for 10s. Your conditions deal 2% more damage per stack (max. 5 Stacks).


you could also replace torment by bleeding, but with torment you would give the necro better availability to this condition as well as another dmg condition besides bleed/poison/burn. Actual the tormen appliction is very limited, this would be changed with this a little. But I think the beeding is sill an option, it it would not be torment.

As to the point with confusion: IMHO confusion ist not a condition that fits great to necromancer. It is not the style of this profession to deal confusion…so..not a fan of adding confusion to the repertoire in any way.

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Posted by: Brokensunday.4098

Brokensunday.4098

make that trait an aura for opponent that when they get chiled start reciving damage

or make chill apply a second condition like a super chill that only deals damage if the foe is chilled

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Posted by: The Wizland.8435

The Wizland.8435

2 bleeds for 4 seconds is good. If you compare the damage to old Deathly Chill, yes it’s lower, but not enough to be bad. Lemme show this through math (assuming 1400 condi damage)

2 Bleeds for 4 seconds: ((.06*1400)+22)*4*2 = 848 damage
1 second of Chill (old): (.255*1400)+202 = 559 damage
2 seconds of Chill (old): 559*2 = 1118 damage
3 seconds of Chill (old): 559*3 = 1677 damage

The bleeding is a great addition for short duration Chills. It stacks intensity, so it’s also good for rapid application. So long as you can apply Chill twice every 3 seconds, it’ll outpace old DC. An unrealistic goal, yes, but you won’t be too far behind old DC. Yes it’s a nerf (for PvP), but the trait needed a nerf anyway.
The issue with the current version of the trait is that the damage is very spread out and hard to keep up.

Jesusmancer

(edited by The Wizland.8435)

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Posted by: Reh.5986

Reh.5986

I actually love the idea of adding a damage modifier on this. I think if you could go with something like 2 bleed stacks at 4 seconds and then throw in a damage mod for bleed it would make it worthy and very desirable for condi builds.

You would be able to stack bleed, the chill bleeds would be a bit more bursty and the trait would give benefit to all bleeds so actual synergy with scepter/dagger.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

2 Torment for roughly 8 seconds is the best solution imo. Torment has the best thematic fit, since Reaper is all about anti-movement, plus it allows for a bit of counterplay and thought behind either running and taking Torment or not moving and taking on Reaper in melee.

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Posted by: Aesa.4819

Aesa.4819

2 Torment for roughly 8 seconds is the best solution imo. Torment has the best thematic fit, since Reaper is all about anti-movement, plus it allows for a bit of counterplay and thought behind either running and taking Torment or not moving and taking on Reaper in melee.

I agree with this.
Torment is as close to Weaken Knees we can get, and we should have more of it IMO (I would like to see Death Shroud #5 buffed aswell, in this regard).

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Posted by: Akrasia.5469

Akrasia.5469

2 Torment for roughly 8 seconds is the best solution imo. Torment has the best thematic fit, since Reaper is all about anti-movement, plus it allows for a bit of counterplay and thought behind either running and taking Torment or not moving and taking on Reaper in melee.

I agree with this.
Torment is as close to Weaken Knees we can get, and we should have more of it IMO (I would like to see Death Shroud #5 buffed aswell, in this regard).

I also agree Torment would be the best for both function and theme. Hear that THEME LOVING devs. Torment Please instead of bleeds. Either that of make more bleed combos to support the change. Give us more traits like Blood Bond in Blood Magic and make the trait like more appealing so we have some good combos and you’ll hear less complaints from the necro community.

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Posted by: Ragion.2831

Ragion.2831

2 Torment for roughly 8 seconds is the best solution imo. Torment has the best thematic fit, since Reaper is all about anti-movement, plus it allows for a bit of counterplay and thought behind either running and taking Torment or not moving and taking on Reaper in melee.

Not bad, yea this would work

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Posted by: Brokensunday.4098

Brokensunday.4098

2 Torment for roughly 8 seconds is the best solution imo. Torment has the best thematic fit, since Reaper is all about anti-movement, plus it allows for a bit of counterplay and thought behind either running and taking Torment or not moving and taking on Reaper in melee.

i agree and add admage modifier deal 5% more dmage ( power and condi) to torment foes or chilled foes would be nice

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

“Your conditions deal increased damage to Chilled foes”

I know this is the third time I’ve posted this, but it does feel like it could be a good alternative.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
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Posted by: Sabre.8627

Sabre.8627

2 Torment for roughly 8 seconds is the best solution imo. Torment has the best thematic fit, since Reaper is all about anti-movement, plus it allows for a bit of counterplay and thought behind either running and taking Torment or not moving and taking on Reaper in melee.

My only problem with this is that putting a sigil of earth and sigil of ice on a scepter makes your auto attack stupidly powerful. One single auto attack chain could result in 4 stacks of torment(2 AOE), 5 stacks of bleeding, AOE chill, poison, and a corrupted boon.
(counting barbed precision and chilling nova)

I like this suggestion but I feel like it would be too strong with the way everything else functions right now. It would be nearly as strong as before, probably even stronger since torment can stack. Could you imagine how ridiculous a fear chain would be?
(This is solely PvP perspective obviously)

(edited by Sabre.8627)

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

2 Torment for roughly 8 seconds is the best solution imo. Torment has the best thematic fit, since Reaper is all about anti-movement, plus it allows for a bit of counterplay and thought behind either running and taking Torment or not moving and taking on Reaper in melee.

My only problem with this is that putting a sigil of earth and sigil of ice on a scepter makes your auto attack stupidly powerful. One single auto attack chain could result in 4 stacks of torment(2 AOE), 5 stacks of bleeding, AOE chill, poison, and a corrupted boon.
(counting barbed precision and chilling nova)

I like this suggestion but I feel like it would be too strong with the way everything else functions right now. It would be nearly as strong as before, probably even stronger since torment can stack. Could you imagine how ridiculous a fear chain would be?
(This is solely PvP perspective obviously)

Every interaction would be the same as before, but with Torment instead of chill or bleed. If the previous iterations didn’t break anything, its doubtful that this would.

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Posted by: bearshaman.3421

bearshaman.3421

1. 2 bleeds is viable, but it’s boring and potentially a fairly high burst potential (though with longish cooldowns and visibility when it’s coming). It’s not a bad way to handle it.

2. The burst with burns is too high. A dev said they toyed around with using Burning but combos like Rs5->4 was too devastating. I tend to agree.

Personally:
I think 2 torment for 8 seconds is the best idea. For one, Necromancers deserve more Torment access and a bitter cold sounds fairly tormenting. It does good damage, but does more with an enemy playing bad/has counter play for the enemy. Lastly, due to the nature of the Rs5->4 combo stunning initially, it helps curb the initial burst of the combo by nature of movement prevention, while still remaining fully impactful in normal play.

In general, 2 torment for 8 seconds makes the most sense and supports comboing with Fear (our other niche) to secure burst damage.

That’s my two cents.

That would be pretty cool. I can get on board with torment instead of bleed.

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

“Your conditions deal increased damage to Chilled foes”

I know this is the third time I’ve posted this, but it does feel like it could be a good alternative.

^ this.

Though I’d prefer : “You do more damage and condition damage on chilled foes”. 5% – 7% would be fine.

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: bearshaman.3421

bearshaman.3421

“Your conditions deal increased damage to Chilled foes”

I know this is the third time I’ve posted this, but it does feel like it could be a good alternative.

^ this.

Though I’d prefer : “You do more damage and condition damage on chilled foes”. 5% – 7% would be fine.

I would also be fine with a percentage increase to condition damage to chilled foes. These are both (this and torment) better options to fit the theme of Deathly chill I think.

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Posted by: Vindtunneln.3896

Vindtunneln.3896

Not exactly sure if I agree that it needed a nerf, chilled wasn’t that easy to apply constantly as people think it is, but if it was dealing to much dmg, why not just scale it down a bit? I loved having another dot tick, so visually appealing.

But since that’s probably not going happen, can you at least freaking not completely destroy the trait, 1 freaking bleed stack per chill? That’s just BS.

Many good suggestions in here, just fix it asap, because it’s current state is just pathetic.

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Posted by: Yannir.4132

Yannir.4132

“Your conditions deal increased damage to Chilled foes”

I know this is the third time I’ve posted this, but it does feel like it could be a good alternative.

^ this.

Though I’d prefer : “You do more damage and condition damage on chilled foes”. 5% – 7% would be fine.

I would also be fine with a percentage increase to condition damage to chilled foes. These are both (this and torment) better options to fit the theme of Deathly chill I think.

+1’d This is the only sensible suggestion I see in this thread. As for the others… Confusion? Burning? Torment?! Powercreep much?

Bleeds may be boring but they are easily stacked high. It also makes multiple reapers more viable. It has the potential for higher dmg than ever. You just need to commit to playing differently.

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Posted by: bearshaman.3421

bearshaman.3421

“Your conditions deal increased damage to Chilled foes”

I know this is the third time I’ve posted this, but it does feel like it could be a good alternative.

^ this.

Though I’d prefer : “You do more damage and condition damage on chilled foes”. 5% – 7% would be fine.

I would also be fine with a percentage increase to condition damage to chilled foes. These are both (this and torment) better options to fit the theme of Deathly chill I think.

+1’d This is the only sensible suggestion I see in this thread. As for the others… Confusion? Burning? Torment?! Powercreep much?

Bleeds may be boring but they are easily stacked high. It also makes multiple reapers more viable. It has the potential for higher dmg than ever. You just need to commit to playing differently.

Yeah, I don’t see the change as a buff or a nerf, just a alteration, on that brings chill back in line. Turning a duration stacking condition into a damaging one was a bad design move, and one I’m glad they changed. Bleed works as an alternative, since I’m pretty sure the trait was intended for condi builds anyway. I’m open to the idea of other options, and am glad some people are starting to see the solid possibilities with the new DC.