Guild Wars 2

I always thought that the current state of consume conditions was actually what was holding us back. As potent as it is, it made us extremely predictable in pvp, if you didn’t have that floating sack of guts hanging around, chances are, you had consume conditions. They could have just done a straight forward nerf that lessened how much each condition healed or only apply to damaging conditions, but they didn’t!

Now consume conditions is as potent as we like it, but with a nerf that is less about straight number changes and more about demanding player skill. Between this, the changes to vampiric wells, and the buff to signet of vampirism, we now have four heals meant for distinct builds.

Condi classes have tons of opportunities to transfer conditions, so this vulnerability nerf is a minor set back at best and damaging to unskilled players at worst. If you spec for corruptions anyways, this could be considered a buff.

Well of blood is now the go to for WvW well bombers. I feel that not many people appreciated how much the new vampiric wells trait + targeted wells being baseline made this skill so much more viable! Good well bombers have always been the ones to stay away from danger in the first place, so consume conditions was more of a safety net anyways.

For my fellow power death shroud necromancers, signet of vampirism or “your soul is mine” is now our go to heals! I’m thinking of so many possibilities with our new and improved skill that was once useless! Will we combine it with unholy sanctuary to focus more on passive heals plus that sexy new double the power in death shroud trait? Or will we combine it with blood magic to focus more on active healing while striking as well as all those new support traits?

other things you should pay attention to regarding defense against conditions
-our new spiteful renewal
-plague sending
-our new shrouded removal (combine this with the new speed of shadows!)
-necromatic corruption
-corruptors fervor
-relentless pursuit!!

I think with an extra 5 seconds and some vulnerability, consume conditioners will be fine!

Consume Condition wasn’t what was making us painfully predictable or what was holding us back, darling. Its death shroud. Its always been death shroud.

So then you would buff the other heals to match. Even after the change making it more situational, even for well/minion builds with 0 synergy, consume conditions is straight up better than well of blood/wigglemonster.

Make the leech minion attack 20% faster, give well of blood its 10 seconds back, and there we go.

Tested the other heals in a couple PvP matches, they just plain suck. Necro has no healing skill anymore. How far are they willing to go, to cripple a class…

CratZ.6270:

Tested the other heals in a couple PvP matches, they just plain suck. Necro has no healing skill anymore. How far are they willing to go, to cripple a class…

I’m talking about what the other heals will be.

Well of Blood is meant for backline necromancers who stay in a safe spot in the first place. Its about supporting your allies as much as supporting yourself. With the new vampiric rituals trait, this becomes more evident. You gain extra healing while your allies gain protection.

Blood fiend is for minion masters. From what I have seen, they aren’t that useless already and some old minion traits are becoming baseline.

Signet of vampirism’s active effect will heal in shroud. In death shroud, a fear + transfusion should give you plenty of opportunity to land some hits during this time, as well as allies. (remember, this game isn’t balanced around 1v1, the only thing necromancer is good at this moment in sPvP) With reaper shroud, well… reaper’s onslaught.

Your soul is mine + siphon in death shroud sounds awesome!

Those quick mentions to the traits at the end of my post was to signify that we are getting more defensive and offensive options for removing conditions across multiple trait lines, making us more options when we are immobalized + low on health. Currently, consume conditions and putrid mark(clunky) are the only things most necromancers bring to that situation.

But OP, it’s cooldown is 5 seconds longer and it gives us some vuln after the cast! Necros don’t have any way to take advantage of that. Might as well just delete my character, uninstall the game, and drive my car into a lake.

Captain Unusual.9163:

But OP, it’s cooldown is 5 seconds longer and it gives us some vuln after the cast! Necros don’t have any way to take advantage of that. Might as well just delete my character, uninstall the game, and drive my car into a lake.

EDIT
Please Ignore what I have said.. I was under the impression of something else.

However.. it’s not as doom n gloom as everyone is saying… Though Consume conditions is screwed up.

Captain Unusual.9163:

But OP, it’s cooldown is 5 seconds longer and it gives us some vuln after the cast! Necros don’t have any way to take advantage of that. Might as well just delete my character, uninstall the game, and drive my car into a lake.

Because the necro forum is raging again (classic) I already wrote that on other posts.
It’s a good thing for condimancers: Transfer the vuln
Bad thing for powermancers, unless they decide to run D/D or the Shrouded removal trait (or plague signet, but kitten that kitten)

HardRider.2980:

Captain Unusual.9163:

But OP, it’s cooldown is 5 seconds longer and it gives us some vuln after the cast! Necros don’t have any way to take advantage of that. Might as well just delete my character, uninstall the game, and drive my car into a lake.

I hope you’re kidding right?
Plague Signet – passes condi to foes when you have 3+ on you (5 condi tops) rech 30 seconds…. Trait for corruption and signets… and boom.. 24 seconds cooldown.

Dagger 4 after heal – .. place down a well heal – condi removed = boon.
.. Please read everything before dooming

The problem with that is that you have to use an extra skill to make your healig skill work properly.

If they wanted to make the other heals competitive — or even viable — then the thing to do would have been to buff them, not to cripple the only heal that worked.

Minionmancers currently use Consume Conditions; Blood Fiend means no healing.

Signet of Vampirism will still be garbage. Traited to 28 second cd: 3960 initial heal and a maximum (assuming you land a blow every second on the dot) bonus healing of 2352, for a total of 6312 — above the base heal of Consume Conditions (5240), but only under ideal circumstances, and Signet doesn’t remove conditions. (The passive healing is negligible.)

Well of Blood will still be garbage. Traited to 32 second cd: 5240 initial heal and a maximum (assuming you stand still for 5 seconds) bonus healing of 1400, for a total of 6640 — less than the healing of Consume Conditions with just 2 conditions (6688), and Well doesn’t remove conditions.

Blood Fiend will still die to incidental cleaving.

The team healing is meaningless, because other professions (Elementalist, Guardian, Warrior) bring more healing for less cost.

To the forum trolls who don’t play the game, please understand: The fact that a Necromancer can transfer the conditions does not mean that it is in any way optimal that it must. Yes, there are countermaneuvers for everything, but being forced into a countermaneuver means your actions are being dictated, which is the beginning of losing a fight.

HardRider.2980:

Captain Unusual.9163:

But OP, it’s cooldown is 5 seconds longer and it gives us some vuln after the cast! Necros don’t have any way to take advantage of that. Might as well just delete my character, uninstall the game, and drive my car into a lake.

I hope you’re kidding right?
Plague Signet – passes condi to foes when you have 3+ on you (5 condi tops) rech 30 seconds…. Trait for corruption and signets… and boom.. 24 seconds cooldown.

Dagger 4 after heal – .. place down a well heal – condi removed = boon.
.. Please read everything before dooming

So you expend 2 30 second cd skills to to what you could formerly do with one, also plague signet got hit with the nerfbat too, so you can only get rid of HALF the vuln. Sorry, but this is still bullkitten.

Falcon.8713:

Captain Unusual.9163:

But OP, it’s cooldown is 5 seconds longer and it gives us some vuln after the cast! Necros don’t have any way to take advantage of that. Might as well just delete my character, uninstall the game, and drive my car into a lake.

Because the necro forum is raging again (classic) I already wrote that on other posts.
It’s a good thing for condimancers: Transfer the vuln
Bad thing for powermancers, unless they decide to run D/D or the Shrouded removal trait (or plague signet, but kitten that kitten)

Oh, transfer 4 seconds Vulnerability. Great idea! Burn one of two reliable transfers! Necromancer is absolutely immortal to Conditions!

I’m sick of people who have no clue about condition play, yet post.

Shiki.7148:

HardRider.2980:

Captain Unusual.9163:

But OP, it’s cooldown is 5 seconds longer and it gives us some vuln after the cast! Necros don’t have any way to take advantage of that. Might as well just delete my character, uninstall the game, and drive my car into a lake.

I hope you’re kidding right?
Plague Signet – passes condi to foes when you have 3+ on you (5 condi tops) rech 30 seconds…. Trait for corruption and signets… and boom.. 24 seconds cooldown.

Dagger 4 after heal – .. place down a well heal – condi removed = boon.
.. Please read everything before dooming

So you expend 2 30 second cd skills to to what you could formerly do with one, also plague signet got hit with the nerfbat too, so you can only get rid of HALF the vuln. Sorry, but this is still bullkitten.

are you trolling? 5 condis refers to 5 different condition stacks. removing 25 stacks of bleeding takes one condi remove. removing 10 stacks of vuln take one condi remove too.

Shiki.7148:

HardRider.2980:

Captain Unusual.9163:

But OP, it’s cooldown is 5 seconds longer and it gives us some vuln after the cast! Necros don’t have any way to take advantage of that. Might as well just delete my character, uninstall the game, and drive my car into a lake.

I hope you’re kidding right?
Plague Signet – passes condi to foes when you have 3+ on you (5 condi tops) rech 30 seconds…. Trait for corruption and signets… and boom.. 24 seconds cooldown.

Dagger 4 after heal – .. place down a well heal – condi removed = boon.
.. Please read everything before dooming

So you expend 2 30 second cd skills to to what you could formerly do with one, also plague signet got hit with the nerfbat too, so you can only get rid of HALF the vuln. Sorry, but this is still bullkitten.

Mhh i am pretty sure that stacks still count as one condition. So all vuln stacks will be transfered. Well unless ofc. you have 6 or more conditions on you then there is a chance that all vuln stacks will stay on you.

For condition necros you can take master of corruption and get the CD down to 20s, 5s SHORTER than it is now.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

For condition necros you can take master of corruption and get the CD down to 20s, 5s SHORTER than it is now.

Here’s a fun thing – you’ll gain one self-condition more, you don’t get any more reliable condition transfer (procs don’t count as reliable things), you lose both Terror and Path of Corruption.

Have fun in the first week. After that, I can bet 100g, you won’t see Condition Necromancer in any tpvp competitive play whatsoever.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

For condition necros you can take master of corruption and get the CD down to 20s, 5s SHORTER than it is now.

By giving up Path of Corruption or Terror, both of which are more valuable than Master of Corruption, not to mention that it also makes you give yourself another condition on top of the Vulnerability.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

For condition necros you can take master of corruption and get the CD down to 20s, 5s SHORTER than it is now.

I was planning on getting that trait before not anymore I don’t see worthy reward. I thought they would have adjusted CPC to make it like a condition version of WoS and change the weakness but nope so I won’t really use that.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

Shiki.7148:

HardRider.2980:

Captain Unusual.9163:

But OP, it’s cooldown is 5 seconds longer and it gives us some vuln after the cast! Necros don’t have any way to take advantage of that. Might as well just delete my character, uninstall the game, and drive my car into a lake.

I hope you’re kidding right?
Plague Signet – passes condi to foes when you have 3+ on you (5 condi tops) rech 30 seconds…. Trait for corruption and signets… and boom.. 24 seconds cooldown.

Dagger 4 after heal – .. place down a well heal – condi removed = boon.
.. Please read everything before dooming

So you expend 2 30 second cd skills to to what you could formerly do with one, also plague signet got hit with the nerfbat too, so you can only get rid of HALF the vuln. Sorry, but this is still bullkitten.

are you trolling? 5 condis refers to 5 different condition stacks. removing 25 stacks of bleeding takes one condi remove. removing 10 stacks of vuln take one condi remove too.

Well, then my bad, i really thought it meant 5 stacks. It is still 2 30 second CD (not traited) skills though. But i guess if you take Death magic you have quite a few ways to mitigate that… getting the condition-sucking minions if you run golem (well, if his AI ever gets fixed), that trait that gives you toughness and less incoming condi damage when you cause conditions, or shrouded removal… Hmm. I wonder what the additional condi will be on the skill that reduces corruption-CDR… imagine it being chill, ahaha.

Guys, as a fellow Necro i have to say: dont cry so much!
Consume Condi was just so potent, bc it was/is atm one of the best healing skills in the entire game! In a balance patch its a MUST that they nerf that good skill. And to be honest, im happy to see the didnt change any numbers at all from that skill. Just think about no vuln on cast, but less heal. You would not use it anymore (if the numbers are very low).

Now it has tradet less cooldown than befor, still cleanse ALL your condis and applys some vuln. That not the end of the world.

The new signet of vamparism seems also very potent. In DS it heals, and just 3 enemys with DS4 means tons of HP and good Lifeforce, still avarange DPS and some staing power in a teamfight.

The well is… well not my go to option. for spezific situations it might work, but its not that kind of support we bring to WvW or dungeons in the first place. also sPVP not very useable.

i dont like the minion AI in gw2, so i dont talk about that bloodsack of minion what is supposed to be a healing skill. Its just a bad joke, some1 who realy hates necro’s must had the idea of this skill. but we have other options, so its just waste of hero points if you wanna get the flesh golem.

Rym.1469:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

For condition necros you can take master of corruption and get the CD down to 20s, 5s SHORTER than it is now.

Here’s a fun thing – you’ll gain one self-condition more, you don’t get any more reliable condition transfer (procs don’t count as reliable things), you lose both Terror and Path of Corruption.

Have fun in the first week. After that, I can bet 100g, you won’t see Condition Necromancer in any tpvp competitive play whatsoever.

The key is losing terror. i think if terror was a minor trait or a GM trait swapped with parastic contagion (which is completely useless in pvp) then alot of these issues seem better. Currently I agree, its bad, very bad. They might as well have deleted terror!

No idea why ANET kept the skill cooldown traits.. seriously all need to be baseline to skills or just tossed out so they can properly balance skills. Consume Conditions was wayyyyy overdone here with nerfs and should only have 5 vulnerability applied instead of a massive 10 .. imagine healing after a Ranger does rapid fire on you… wait I thought I just removed those stacks.. lol… the 30 cooldown… ok it sucks but that is acceptable but TEN vulnerability… yikes.. I guess ill be hugging my guardians more in wvw lol.

Coffietire.2783:

I always thought that the current state of consume conditions was actually what was holding us back. As potent as it is, it made us extremely predictable in pvp, if you didn’t have that floating sack of guts hanging around, chances are, you had consume conditions. They could have just done a straight forward nerf that lessened how much each condition healed or only apply to damaging conditions, but they didn’t!

Now consume conditions is as potent as we like it, but with a nerf that is less about straight number changes and more about demanding player skill. Between this, the changes to vampiric wells, and the buff to signet of vampirism, we now have four heals meant for distinct builds.

Condi classes have tons of opportunities to transfer conditions, so this vulnerability nerf is a minor set back at best and damaging to unskilled players at worst. If you spec for corruptions anyways, this could be considered a buff.

Well of blood is now the go to for WvW well bombers. I feel that not many people appreciated how much the new vampiric wells trait + targeted wells being baseline made this skill so much more viable! Good well bombers have always been the ones to stay away from danger in the first place, so consume conditions was more of a safety net anyways.

For my fellow power death shroud necromancers, signet of vampirism or “your soul is mine” is now our go to heals! I’m thinking of so many possibilities with our new and improved skill that was once useless! Will we combine it with unholy sanctuary to focus more on passive heals plus that sexy new double the power in death shroud trait? Or will we combine it with blood magic to focus more on active healing while striking as well as all those new support traits?

other things you should pay attention to regarding defense against conditions
-our new spiteful renewal
-plague sending
-our new shrouded removal (combine this with the new speed of shadows!)
-necromatic corruption
-corruptors fervor
-relentless pursuit!!

I think with an extra 5 seconds and some vulnerability, consume conditioners will be fine!

There is (or at least was) a reason why about 80% of all necros in pvp use concume conditions. The other heals are actually horrible. Anything that involves siphons is horrible (I guess they buffed them by 20 % but in my book 80% of horrible=still horrible).

Traited CC will now SELF-INFLICT TWO CONDITIONS. And as many people pointed out, the change actually goes against any sound gameplay: if you have a condi transfer up and condis on you, obviously you would just transfer the condis and not have to use CC for the condi removal. Saying that the change is OK because you can always transfer the condi is rather nonsensical.

Smooth, Anet. Let’s nerf the one usable heal skill for necros.

In a game where damage-heavy AoE skills are king, blood fiend is unusable. In WvW/GvG it is dead before the fight begins. In PvP it’s targeting/positioning mechanics are horrendous. When it isn’t dead, half the time it isn’t even attacking. In PvE it’s a burden because it unnecessarily keeps you in combat.

Most people would now turn to well of blood. 5/6k self heal with AoE heal ticks. It seems fine but in reality a 40s healing skill is absurd for a necro. We are not guardians who have access to aegis, block on shelter, and renewed focus to sustain us until our heal is back up. And when you think about it realistically, where does an AoE heal have actual usage? Dungeons/fotm? The healing is hardly enough sustain and the light field is undesirable. WvW/GvGs? Only time it would be useful as an AoE heal is on a reset where allies would actually be sitting in the well. Oh wait… it’s a light field. PvP? Good luck not getting a 1 second cast time heal interrupted. It already happens with consume conditions.

But wait. Let’s take necro’s only reliable source of condition removal (stop trying to make dagger offhand and plague signet happen. They’re not going to happen) and increase the cooldown. Oh and let’s add a side-effect that puts conditions back on to them after casting it for kittens and gigs. Cuz I know when I’m trying to remove condis to get out of combat I sure could go for some more condis.

Rym.1469:

Have fun in the first week. After that, I can bet 100g, you won’t see Condition Necromancer in any tpvp competitive play whatsoever.

You’ll win that bet because necromancer is in sorry shape right now.

Anyways, the reason we all take consume conditions is that we need the condition removal.

If we could use finishers to remove conditions with well of blood, or the minion trait was reliable, then that would be a different story.

Power creep has given everybody far more conditions than the necromancer can handle. The new plague signet trait will help, but I’ve been playing Shoutbow which has a similar trait and that trait alone is vastly insufficient.

The alternatives still don’t remove conditions & we’ll still be taking consume conditions.

Signet of vampirism passive still does literally nothing.

All it does is reduce incoming damage packets by 300. Who cares. No one would ever use this crap.

I can actually probably learn to live with the vulnerability (so sad that we necros just learn to live with it and accept all the kitten thrown our way) but the fact that now my heal skill effectively will keep me in combat mode is gonna have a massive impact.