Guild Wars 2

It just seems odd to me that that this skill isn’t a Stunbreaker. Granted, in its current form it does take more skill—you’ll have to predict if you’re going to be knocked out by some CC. The thing is, pretty much every other Stability granting skill is a Stunbreaker.

—Guardian’s “Stand Your Ground!”
—Warrior’s “Balanced Stance” and “Dolyak Signet”
—Elementalist’s “Armor of the Earth”
—Mesmer’s “Power Break”
—And the Necromancer’s very own “Well of Power”

I wouldn’t mind that much if RS3 isn’t a Stunbreaker, but it does getting used to in Ascalonion Catabombs or something. “D’oh! I forgot to activate Stability before the kitten ed Gravelings hit me!”

I could get behind this. Necro having another stun-break would be nice, especially where Reaper is a melee brawler-type spec. And having it inherently in shroud beyond just FitG would be great (because, let’s be honest, a DS/RS build doesn’t want to flash shroud. Those builds want to stay in shroud as long as possible, making FitG not nearly as useful)

Looking at the stats – the update thread mentioned that Infusing Terror should now only start recharging once the duration expires (or you trigger the active effect, presumably). Thus, if you go for maximum Stability, it has an effective 28s recharge. You get 1 stack lasting for 3s, pulsed 8x once per second (so 1-2-3-3-3-3-3-3-2-1 stacks of stability). Relative to SYG!, the overall stability duration is longer (10s vs 5s), although you get fewer stacks at once, and SYG! also gives Retaliation as well as affecting the entire party, while the recharge is very similar. Relative to Balanced Stance, you get roughly the same personal Stability duration but lose Swiftness in exchange for a shorter recharge. Thus it seems fairly balanced for Infusing Terror to also be a stunbreak … some of the other Stability-granting utilities have much higher recharges, but they generally have (a) a lot more stacks of Stability and/or (b) other, additional benefits (e.g. Armor of Earth gives 10 stacks of Stability as well as Protection, but has a shorter 6s duration and a much longer 75s recharge).

Also, is there a reason the Infusing Terror skill fact implies it causes Fear? I don’t remember it Fearing enemies initially, and the skill description implies you have to use the shatter to do so, but I might have just not been paying attention.

Vydahr.4285:

I could get behind this. Necro having another stun-break would be nice, especially where Reaper is a melee brawler-type spec. And having it inherently in shroud beyond just FitG would be great (because, let’s be honest, a DS/RS build doesn’t want to flash shroud. Those builds want to stay in shroud as long as possible, making FitG not nearly as useful)

This ^

The current stun breaker options don’t work for RS/DS builds. FitG only works if you are not already in shroud. We still don’t have access to our utility bar in shroud, so if they are going to continue to refuse to allow us to play a complete profession, they need to give us a low cd stun break on a DS/RS ability.

The logical alternative, however, is to stop gimping us for flavor reasons and just allow us to use our utilities in shroud.

Son of Urza.1692:

Looking at the stats – the update thread mentioned that Infusing Terror should now only start recharging once the duration expires (or you trigger the active effect, presumably). Thus, if you go for maximum Stability, it has an effective 28s recharge. You get 1 stack lasting for 3s, pulsed 8x once per second (so 1-2-3-3-3-3-3-3-2-1 stacks of stability). Relative to SYG!, the overall stability duration is longer (10s vs 5s), although you get fewer stacks at once, and SYG! also gives Retaliation as well as affecting the entire party, while the recharge is very similar. Relative to Balanced Stance, you get roughly the same personal Stability duration but lose Swiftness in exchange for a shorter recharge. Thus it seems fairly balanced for Infusing Terror to also be a stunbreak … some of the other Stability-granting utilities have much higher recharges, but they generally have (a) a lot more stacks of Stability and/or (b) other, additional benefits (e.g. Armor of Earth gives 10 stacks of Stability as well as Protection, but has a shorter 6s duration and a much longer 75s recharge).

Also, is there a reason the Infusing Terror skill fact implies it causes Fear? I don’t remember it Fearing enemies initially, and the skill description implies you have to use the shatter to do so, but I might have just not been paying attention.

In the preview we had of the skill, it showed that when Infusing Terror expired, it feared enemies for 2 seconds, but other than that, I don’t know why it would mention any other fear effect

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

I’ll take the unpopular stance and say that it doesn’t really need to be a stun break, and probably shouldn’t be. It’s an obscenely strong stability skill as is, essentially making you immune to all CC for 8-10 seconds. It has a strength that other stability skills don’t, because the stability regenerates. If an ele pops Armor of Earth, a single boon strip/corrupt can counter it. But a boon strip/corrupt won’t really do much against Infusing Terror, because the stability builds back up. I know we all hate compensation nerfs, but in this case, the skill not being a stun break is warranted because of its huge advantages over other stability skills.

Sigmoid.7082:

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

Well since there’s no utility skills allowed in reaper shroud it should be fair to add a little more utility in the 1-5s.

Zalavaaris.5329:

Sigmoid.7082:

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

Well since there’s no utility skills allowed in reaper shroud it should be fair to add a little more utility in the 1-5s.

I rather they let me use my utilities in Shroud.

Sagat.3285:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Sigmoid.7082:

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

Well since there’s no utility skills allowed in reaper shroud it should be fair to add a little more utility in the 1-5s.

I rather they let me use my utilities in Shroud.

utilities in shroud would be good also if shroud have their own utilities would be better
from heal to elite

@Captain Unusual: You make good points and I definitely agree with you. On top of what you said, the preemptive way the skill works is perfectly adequate, given that one Hard CC isn’t gonna knock you out of RS (in most situation) which means you can activate the stab the first time a warrior smacks you in the face with a hammer.

@Brokensunday: I don’t know why more people haven’t suggested that. Making DS/RS have their own utilities, designed for their specific styles of play, would be great. I’m fairly certain I’ve only seen this type of idea once or twice, but it’s a good one. The question would be, how could each shroud be augmented with 6-10 skills? Also, would it be different utility sets for each shroud like I mentioned, or one base set that is in both shrouds? Your thoughts?

Brokensunday.4098:

Sagat.3285:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Sigmoid.7082:

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

Well since there’s no utility skills allowed in reaper shroud it should be fair to add a little more utility in the 1-5s.

I rather they let me use my utilities in Shroud.

utilities in shroud would be good also if shroud have their own utilities would be better
from heal to elite

Using existing utilities would create less balance issues than Shrouds having their own and it wouldn’t miss the point of having them which is DS actually being a non-limiting HP shield.

Sagat.3285:

Brokensunday.4098:

Sagat.3285:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Sigmoid.7082:

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

Well since there’s no utility skills allowed in reaper shroud it should be fair to add a little more utility in the 1-5s.

I rather they let me use my utilities in Shroud.

utilities in shroud would be good also if shroud have their own utilities would be better
from heal to elite

Using existing utilities would create less balance issues than Shrouds having their own and it wouldn’t miss the point of having them which is DS actually being a non-limiting HP shield.

True, but then the question would be, could we choose the utilities in DS/RS separate from those outside of shroud? Or would they be one and the same? Honestly, whether they’re existing skills or new ones, utilities in shroud would be a great benefit.

Though, on the side of new skills, they could be balanced around DS/RS as being a different state. As in, limited time, and perhaps requiring a set percentage of LF to be used. That way it’s still balanced in terms of risk/reward. Because using pre-existing skills, there wouldn’t be much risk in using them, only reward. And I think that risk is necessary if we are to get utilities/heal/elite in shroud.

Also, I have to say, having specific skills while in shroud would likely be much more flavorful. On top of that, perhaps there could be a choice of a set of condi based utilities and power based and you can choose between those to mix and match or use one full set.

Vydahr.4285:

Sagat.3285:

Brokensunday.4098:

Sagat.3285:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Sigmoid.7082:

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

Well since there’s no utility skills allowed in reaper shroud it should be fair to add a little more utility in the 1-5s.

I rather they let me use my utilities in Shroud.

utilities in shroud would be good also if shroud have their own utilities would be better
from heal to elite

Using existing utilities would create less balance issues than Shrouds having their own and it wouldn’t miss the point of having them which is DS actually being a non-limiting HP shield.

True, but then the question would be, could we choose the utilities in DS/RS separate from those outside of shroud? Or would they be one and the same? Honestly, whether they’re existing skills or new ones, utilities in shroud would be a great benefit.

Though, on the side of new skills, they could be balanced around DS/RS as being a different state. As in, limited time, and perhaps requiring a set percentage of LF to be used. That way it’s still balanced in terms of risk/reward. Because using pre-existing skills, there wouldn’t be much risk in using them, only reward. And I think that risk is necessary if we are to get utilities/heal/elite in shroud.

Also, I have to say, having specific skills while in shroud would likely be much more flavorful. On top of that, perhaps there could be a choice of a set of condi based utilities and power based and you can choose between those to mix and match or use one full set.

There is a risk you are not using #1-5 from either shroud or your weapons and already existing utilities means they won’t always be on CD,it’s also a QoL change seeing your CD while in Shroud,DS loses it’s limitations,allow fluidity,depth and flexibility for all specs. We can’t afford corruptions like new utilities for shroud the base ones are already underwhelming I still can’t believe MoC made it past imagination.

Sagat.3285:

Vydahr.4285:

Sagat.3285:

Brokensunday.4098:

Sagat.3285:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Sigmoid.7082:

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

Well since there’s no utility skills allowed in reaper shroud it should be fair to add a little more utility in the 1-5s.

I rather they let me use my utilities in Shroud.

utilities in shroud would be good also if shroud have their own utilities would be better
from heal to elite

Using existing utilities would create less balance issues than Shrouds having their own and it wouldn’t miss the point of having them which is DS actually being a non-limiting HP shield.

True, but then the question would be, could we choose the utilities in DS/RS separate from those outside of shroud? Or would they be one and the same? Honestly, whether they’re existing skills or new ones, utilities in shroud would be a great benefit.

Though, on the side of new skills, they could be balanced around DS/RS as being a different state. As in, limited time, and perhaps requiring a set percentage of LF to be used. That way it’s still balanced in terms of risk/reward. Because using pre-existing skills, there wouldn’t be much risk in using them, only reward. And I think that risk is necessary if we are to get utilities/heal/elite in shroud.

Also, I have to say, having specific skills while in shroud would likely be much more flavorful. On top of that, perhaps there could be a choice of a set of condi based utilities and power based and you can choose between those to mix and match or use one full set.

There is a risk you are not using #1-5 from either shroud or your weapons and already existing utilities means they won’t always be on CD,it’s also a QoL change seeing your CD while in Shroud,DS loses it’s limitations and allow fluidity,depth and flexibility for all specs. We can’t afford corruptions like new utilities for shroud the base ones are already underwhelming I still can’t believe MoC made it past imagination.

Hm… Good points. Alright, so under the assumption that we’d have existing utilities in shroud, I would think there would have to still be alterations to the shroud skills, surely? At the very least for the heals

Vydahr.4285:

Sagat.3285:

Vydahr.4285:

Sagat.3285:

Brokensunday.4098:

Sagat.3285:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Sigmoid.7082:

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

Well since there’s no utility skills allowed in reaper shroud it should be fair to add a little more utility in the 1-5s.

I rather they let me use my utilities in Shroud.

utilities in shroud would be good also if shroud have their own utilities would be better
from heal to elite

Using existing utilities would create less balance issues than Shrouds having their own and it wouldn’t miss the point of having them which is DS actually being a non-limiting HP shield.

True, but then the question would be, could we choose the utilities in DS/RS separate from those outside of shroud? Or would they be one and the same? Honestly, whether they’re existing skills or new ones, utilities in shroud would be a great benefit.

Though, on the side of new skills, they could be balanced around DS/RS as being a different state. As in, limited time, and perhaps requiring a set percentage of LF to be used. That way it’s still balanced in terms of risk/reward. Because using pre-existing skills, there wouldn’t be much risk in using them, only reward. And I think that risk is necessary if we are to get utilities/heal/elite in shroud.

Also, I have to say, having specific skills while in shroud would likely be much more flavorful. On top of that, perhaps there could be a choice of a set of condi based utilities and power based and you can choose between those to mix and match or use one full set.

There is a risk you are not using #1-5 from either shroud or your weapons and already existing utilities means they won’t always be on CD,it’s also a QoL change seeing your CD while in Shroud,DS loses it’s limitations and allow fluidity,depth and flexibility for all specs. We can’t afford corruptions like new utilities for shroud the base ones are already underwhelming I still can’t believe MoC made it past imagination.

Hm… Good points. Alright, so under the assumption that we’d have existing utilities in shroud, I would think there would have to still be alterations to the shroud skills, surely? At the very least for the heals

From my point of view you should be able to use your heals in DS as a strategic concept that was supposed to come with DS a HP shield, first start with traits and regen (Parasitic Contagion is seeing no type of play btw),then utilities and elites if it becomes oppressive you start reducing the max pool then go with heals if it happens again lower the pool.

The new found synergy should make up for loss of pool but obviously we have to test it to avoid perfect scenario balance. Robert seems to be moving away from those thank you for that.

Sigmoid.7082:

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swap

Just one case, but it does have precedence.

And we also will get http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sigmoid.7082:

Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swap

Just one case, but it does have precedence.

And we also will get http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies

The second is a trait that makes skills stun break, slightly different. But i did overlook swap. Thats one of a kind.

Imo, Infusing Terror should be a stun breaker. Just like every others professions stability skills.

Lynnie.7213:

Imo, Infusing Terror should be a stun breaker. Just like every others professions stability skills.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hallowed_Ground
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Plasma
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Wild
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirlwind_Banner

Some "similar"skills.

Let’s take a look at the situation from the perspective of a balance team member (which is just another slave to the almighty marketing team):

Facts:
- balance isn’t about 1v1 but team vs team
- revenants and elementalists will be able to support the team with AoE stun breakers

Goals:
- keep CC at the same threat level, no watering down
- keep elementalist OP (done) and revenant a strong selling point (in progress)

Possible solutions:
- reduce access of other professions to stun breakers
- increase amount of hard CCs
- nerf necro (note from Colin: being a slow melee class in light armor doesn’t give them all the rights!)

So now, and for the greater good, you can (not) see why CttB staying on a 120s cooldown and RS3 stability going from 20 to 28s cooldown was a first step to improve balance!

:p

Vydahr.4285:

Though, on the side of new skills, they could be balanced around DS/RS as being a different state. As in, limited time, and perhaps requiring a set percentage of LF to be used. That way it’s still balanced in terms of risk/reward. Because using pre-existing skills, there wouldn’t be much risk in using them, only reward. And I think that risk is necessary if we are to get utilities/heal/elite in shroud.

No profession has a “risk” in using their utility skills…other than them being on cool down after use…at least no profession currently in game. Why should necromancers/reapers be any different. Surely you aren’t trying to say that DS/RS is so powerful that we should be penalized for it? If people/developers really believe that…then take away the extra hp and let DS/RS function like an engineer’s kit. I’d gladly trade away some extra health that evaporates in seconds of being focused…in favor of actually getting to play a fully functional profession…versus half a profession at a time.

ODB.6891:

Vydahr.4285:

Though, on the side of new skills, they could be balanced around DS/RS as being a different state. As in, limited time, and perhaps requiring a set percentage of LF to be used. That way it’s still balanced in terms of risk/reward. Because using pre-existing skills, there wouldn’t be much risk in using them, only reward. And I think that risk is necessary if we are to get utilities/heal/elite in shroud.

No profession has a “risk” in using their utility skills…other than them being on cool down after use…at least no profession currently in game. Why should necromancers/reapers be any different. Surely you aren’t trying to say that DS/RS is so powerful that we should be penalized for it? If people/developers really believe that…then take away the extra hp and let DS/RS function like an engineer’s kit. I’d gladly trade away some extra health that evaporates in seconds of being focused…in favor of actually getting to play a fully functional profession…versus half a profession at a time.

Revenant, a different profession that can have an entirely different utility bar, has risk in using those skills because of energy cost. If we get utilities in shroud, it should use a percentage of LF for each skill. I think it’d be fair

Vydahr.4285:

@Brokensunday: I don’t know why more people haven’t suggested that. Making DS/RS have their own utilities, designed for their specific styles of play, would be great. I’m fairly certain I’ve only seen this type of idea once or twice, but it’s a good one. The question would be, how could each shroud be augmented with 6-10 skills? Also, would it be different utility sets for each shroud like I mentioned, or one base set that is in both shrouds? Your thoughts?

for balance reasons the skills have to be base at least the utilities the shroud only change the first 5 skills so kind of separate the first 5 skills to be offensive skills and the utilities a defensive skills example have a invulnerability but cost life force to use that way we can’t be forever in shroud and need to think before spamming skills

Vydahr.4285:

ODB.6891:

Vydahr.4285:

Though, on the side of new skills, they could be balanced around DS/RS as being a different state. As in, limited time, and perhaps requiring a set percentage of LF to be used. That way it’s still balanced in terms of risk/reward. Because using pre-existing skills, there wouldn’t be much risk in using them, only reward. And I think that risk is necessary if we are to get utilities/heal/elite in shroud.

No profession has a “risk” in using their utility skills…other than them being on cool down after use…at least no profession currently in game. Why should necromancers/reapers be any different. Surely you aren’t trying to say that DS/RS is so powerful that we should be penalized for it? If people/developers really believe that…then take away the extra hp and let DS/RS function like an engineer’s kit. I’d gladly trade away some extra health that evaporates in seconds of being focused…in favor of actually getting to play a fully functional profession…versus half a profession at a time.

Revenant, a different profession that can have an entirely different utility bar, has risk in using those skills because of energy cost. If we get utilities in shroud, it should use a percentage of LF for each skill. I think it’d be fair

Have you seen the cooldowns on revenant utilities?

Vydahr.4285:

ODB.6891:

Vydahr.4285:

Though, on the side of new skills, they could be balanced around DS/RS as being a different state. As in, limited time, and perhaps requiring a set percentage of LF to be used. That way it’s still balanced in terms of risk/reward. Because using pre-existing skills, there wouldn’t be much risk in using them, only reward. And I think that risk is necessary if we are to get utilities/heal/elite in shroud.

No profession has a “risk” in using their utility skills…other than them being on cool down after use…at least no profession currently in game. Why should necromancers/reapers be any different. Surely you aren’t trying to say that DS/RS is so powerful that we should be penalized for it? If people/developers really believe that…then take away the extra hp and let DS/RS function like an engineer’s kit. I’d gladly trade away some extra health that evaporates in seconds of being focused…in favor of actually getting to play a fully functional profession…versus half a profession at a time.

Revenant, a different profession that can have an entirely different utility bar, has risk in using those skills because of energy cost. If we get utilities in shroud, it should use a percentage of LF for each skill. I think it’d be fair

Revenant, not currently in game, so its mechanics are subject to change at this point. The cool downs are non existent on its utilities as well…which eliminates the only real “risk” associated with using them..provided they can maintain their energy mechanic. This is a mechanic that is still in debate until the class gets in the hands of all ANET’s customers and really gets tested. The revenant’s energy resource is not something that degenerates from using their class mechanic constantly. It is something that they can even get a significant amount of just by switching legends. It is a mechanic that they don’t have to switch away from their current skills to use and something that enemies can’t deplete by attacking them. In short, this is a completely different mechanic than what necromancers/reapers have and is in no way related to the topic…which is why I originally said “currently in game” in my previous reply.

This idea that necromancers/reapers should have to pay a penalty for access to the same thing that every other profession has no penalty to access is beyond me. Its like when someone gets abused to the point where they ask for more abuse voluntarily. The whole mentality ANET has with necromancers/reapers…that everything associated with the profession has to have a 10 page list of restrictions…is a huge part of what has been keeping this class at the bottom of the pve desirability list for so long.

We have to keep in mind that currently there is no weapon skill in the game that is a Stunbreaker, so that might be weird giving RS 3 a Stun break. I’ll be fine if they don’t make RS3 a Stunbreak, just that it feels…weird. I guess I’ll get used to it with more playtime, but it’s unintuitive IMO when pretty much every other stability skill is a Stun break.

ClawofBeta.8015:

We have to keep in mind that currently there is no weapon skill in the game that is a Stunbreaker, so that might be weird giving RS 3 a Stun break. I’ll be fine if they don’t make RS3 a Stunbreak, just that it feels…weird. I guess I’ll get used to it with more playtime, but it’s unintuitive IMO when pretty much every other stability skill is a Stun break.

There is no weapon skill, but engineer has a few F skills with stunbreak, and RS is our F skill, so it wouldn’t be truly out of the ballpark.
This and Plague could really use Stunbreaks.

ClawofBeta.8015:

We have to keep in mind that currently there is no weapon skill in the game that is a Stunbreaker, so that might be weird giving RS 3 a Stun break. I’ll be fine if they don’t make RS3 a Stunbreak, just that it feels…weird. I guess I’ll get used to it with more playtime, but it’s unintuitive IMO when pretty much every other stability skill is a Stun break.

…I just linked one earlier…

Besides, a number of Stability skills are not stunbreaks. Rampage, Plague, Lich, Tornado, Consecrated Ground, Signet of the Wild, Dagger Storm, and Strength of the Pack all give Stability without breaking stun. That’s actually higher than the number that grant Stability and break stun.