Guild Wars 2

Hi Necromancer Community!

I would like to ask you how this situation could happened and what can I do next time to avoid it. Please note:

I do not want to call any nerf on this gameplay! Please do not give words into my mouth!

So the story:

I have seen an MM necro (first one I’ve seen since days…) taking our Far on Foefire. I made my way to the point and opened the fight with my regular abilities (Banish+Judge’s Intervention). The poor necro was flying through the air just out of the point. I immobilised him then my plan was to land my Mighty Blow but the tale didn’t get that far. I died instantly.

With a huge Q.Q W.T.F??!! expression on my face I checked the combat log… There wasn’t any individual damage source what was above like 500. Note: My damage log was full from the MM “attacks”. So there might be a huge hit I got but didn’t show up in the log (unfortunately I couldn’t remember my printscreen hotkey so I have no image proof of this). He wasn’t in Lich Form (I’m well aware thet a Lich can two-shot me :S ).

My build is an Asura carrion burn meditation guardian (20k HP and 2500 armour). Trait lines: Radiance, Valor and Virtues. I was on full or nearly full HP.

Can somebody explain me what happened and how can I spot this next time?

Go Go MM necro!

if you killed all the minions that 3-6 death nova that would go off at the same time. but as far as i know it wouldnt kill you instantly

MM does a fair amount of damage if all those things are alive.. then the necro has new the vampiric aura wich will apply to his minions aswell.. meaning every hit from minions will deal about 100-200 siphon damage maybe that’s it

additionally they give you back the burn damage you applied to the necro..

Something similiar happened to me in Courtyard playing as a full tank engineer, however it wasn’t vs a MM necro (but the opponents had 3/5 necros and 2 took the golem so…?).
I was sitting at 80% hp when i just got downed, no damage popped up, the combat log didn’t mention anything either.

Weird… x3

What likely happened was bone minions. You probably got hit by hte majority of hte pets simultaneously stripping any active defense you had. In retaliation he most likely popped both of his bone minions which were likely right ontop of you. All in all you probably took 9-10k damage over a very short period of time. Then took hits from the golem. That would be my guess atleast.

One of the best methods for an MM to kill is with those bone minions. Just catching someone by suprise with them can be lethal. Sounds like thats what happened to you.

EDIT: Before I forget to add this. If you loaded him up with burning its also highly likely his pets ate it then transfered it back to you. So if you had popped something to inflict high burning stacks on him you might have had that ticking on you as well. So if its a burst then 3-4k burning ontop of everything else….= ouch.

Shadelang.3012:

What likely happened was bone minions. You probably got hit by hte majority of hte pets simultaneously stripping any active defense you had. In retaliation he most likely popped both of his bone minions which were likely right ontop of you. All in all you probably took 9-10k damage over a very short period of time. Then took hits from the golem. That would be my guess atleast.

One of the best methods for an MM to kill is with those bone minions. Just catching someone by suprise with them can be lethal. Sounds like thats what happened to you.

EDIT: Before I forget to add this. If you loaded him up with burning its also highly likely his pets ate it then transfered it back to you. So if you had popped something to inflict high burning stacks on him you might have had that ticking on you as well. So if its a burst then 3-4k burning ontop of everything else….= ouch.

And additionally it still counts as the Engis damage, so it might not show up properly in the Log.

Since you’re running burning my guess is you stacked a bunch of burns on him, and during the process ate some of the Minion attacks, thus removing your blocks. Minion then probably got the burns off the necro, and that minion hit you with an attack, applying them to you. Plus if he had bone minions, that’s another big chunk of damage (love those guys, great way to screw over thieves) and that would’ve procced deathnova for even more damage, plus poison to keep your heals in check.

Pretty much what it sounds like is while focusing on the MM, you didn’t pay attention to what the minions were doing. They do actually hurt a good bit….if they attack. Someone above me may have the actual maths, sorry!

Huh, I just landed like 3-4 stacks of burn on the whole companion… And since I’m in carrion it could hurt a lot (1200 condi damage so like 360 each?)

If I had all the burns back that’s about 1-1,5K damage a sec. Those minions should damage the rest of the 15-18k HP… Or 13-15k if we speak about 2 seconds…

Well If I got hit by an Air sigil too…

I’m still not sure what happened but I rebinded my printscreen… You know just in case

Shiki: are you sure that “Explode Minion” or whatever ability does not show in the log? That could be an answer…

Anyways: sorry for the lack of informations. I know this could be hard to analyse and give a good feedback…

Thank you for your time…

TheLastNobody:

If I apply let’s say 4 stacks of burn on the necro and the minions give the LOVE back… How much burning stack will I have? Four or four times the number of the minions?

Aggrostemma.1703:

TheLastNobody:

If I apply let’s say 4 stacks of burn on the necro and the minions give the LOVE back… How much burning stack will I have? Four or four times the number of the minions?

4, since the condition first goes to 1 minion and this thing transfers it back to you on a succesful hit.

If you applies 4 stacks of burning to EACH minion and him. You recieved ALL stacks back on you, more than likely. Plus the damage they do, plus the putrid explosions, plus whatever the necro did. I can see how you’d get ruined that way. It was just an awkward situation for you and lucky for that necro. (I play a MM necro in PvP :P)

DEATHsCLAW: thank you for the clarification…

TheMurkMuffin: are you sure? DEATHsCLAW says the opposite… But What you said can pretty much confirm the reason I died… If I had 24 stacks of burning and the Minions and the Nova and the explosion…

Did you do any tests lads?

The minions transfer any condition on themselves, it does not have to be one they received from you. In addition to that Necromantic Corruption’s transfer from the Necro to the minion doesn’t happen until 10 seconds after combat starts. So if he applied 4 stacks of burn to the whole group of minions, he easily could have gotten 16-28 stacks of burning applied back, depending on how many minions there were and other things like if the Necro had anything ticking to start the NC timer before it started.

In addition, Death Nova deals 1300-1600 damage every time you kill a minion.

Also, all minion attacks are in the combat log now, including the explosion when you kill a minion. My guess is you are slightly exagerating how long it took you to die, that you didn’t notice another player was there helping the MM, or just that you literally ate kitten from all the minions at once in a freak accident.

But yes MM can do a lot of damage very quickly, especially if they have spite and soldier gear, and you kill the minions unknowingly. Flesh Golem hits for 1k+, Flesh Wurm 1k+, Bone Fiend can hit 1k on the cripple attack, blown up Bone Minions are 2k each, Death Nova is 1300-1600, then Necromantic Corruption would have transferred all those burns back as well, so that’s an easy 20 burn stacks back on you, Chill of Death proc, possible things like Leeching sigil proc for 975. And all of these hits are very front-loaded, so it is conceivable if you allowed them to all get close and weren’t paying attention, maybe really focused on landing your burst combo, that it killed you.

I know this for a fact, because its usually how I counter people with high condition related bursts. We also have spells that transfer conditions as well that wont show up as one large attack.

Bhawb… If I exaggeriting it must be only slightly (maybe my memories tricked me but I had a friend who was following me since I the Guardian are struggling fighting against the Necro)… And at the time he arrived I was all dead.

But if the minions gave back all the burning (note: that’s 24 stacks at least) and they exploded by the utility command… This pretty much explains it.

I did not kill any minion. My focused target was the Necromancer.

Aggrostemma.1703:

Bhawb… If I exaggeriting it must be only slightly (maybe my memories tricked me but I had a friend who was following me since I the Guardian are struggling fighting against the Necro)… And at the time he arrived I was all dead.

But if the minions gave back all the burning (note: that’s 24 stacks at least) and they exploded by the utility command… This pretty much explains it.

I did not kill any minion. My focused target was the Necromancer.

I’d guess you used Judge’s Intervention and gave every minion 3 stacks of Burning and the MM had Necromantic Corruption and gave you 15+ stacks of burning back. Also small damage+ vampiric damage + a bone minion explosion add up.

Edit: Should’ve read whole thread. Muffins answer and Bhawb’s last paragraph explain it pretty good.

Bellamy: yes, this is the solution probably…

I hit the necro with JI+Banish… that could be 4 stacks of Burn straight away… Then I might proc Zealot’s Flame (Radiant Fire trait) and Amplified Wrath… so two more stacks.

That’s six stacks. If every minion applied this on me… OMG that’s 30 burning + the explosions…

Do I get this right?

As others have said, the minions probably transferred your burning back to you and Bone Minions (the little tiny guys) probably died or the Necromancer killed them for serious damage. Most MM’s will run Death Nova which causes their minions to explode when they die. Death Nova can deal some pretty serious damage similar to how Mesmer clones can hurt pretty bad if you cleave through them fast enough.

Aggrostemma.1703:

Huh, I just landed like 3-4 stacks of burn on the whole companion… And since I’m in carrion it could hurt a lot (1200 condi damage so like 360 each?)

If I had all the burns back that’s about 1-1,5K damage a sec. Those minions should damage the rest of the 15-18k HP… Or 13-15k if we speak about 2 seconds…

Well If I got hit by an Air sigil too…

I’m still not sure what happened but I rebinded my printscreen… You know just in case

Shiki: are you sure that “Explode Minion” or whatever ability does not show in the log? That could be an answer…

Anyways: sorry for the lack of informations. I know this could be hard to analyse and give a good feedback…

Thank you for your time…

No i meant the backtransferred burning might not show. Whether or not “Death Nova” shows up, I have no idea, but I’m pretty sure it would, in some way or another.

Death Nova does, though not by name, show up on the log. It also seems to scale with minion power interestingly enough, although I haven’t done enough testing to be 100%, kind of wish I could multibox for that reason.

OK thank you for your help!

I hope ANET will fix the combat log…

I will have some time this weekend to test it with a friend but until this I’ll going to dream about 20.6k HP oneshotLOL MM necro builds

Been one shotting guardians all week with their own conditions. Its weird but pleasing.

Its like they run up and explode.

I’m pretty sure that it is you who killed yourself.

The new minion trait from MM transfer the condition you applied to their minions back to you when they attack. You are most likely die from your own 10~15 stacks of burning.
I’m glad there’s a new spec from Necro that can counter condition spam and instant gib zerker Meta. It could be the savior of GW2 now!

Honestly, I think Ranger’s Empathetic Bond should have done that a long time ago.. Yet they give this to Necro, and in BIG QUANTITY TOO!

Maybe it has nothing to do with the necro since there seems to be a bug where people instantly die for whatever reason. See:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Unexpected-Deaths

Thank you Mordran!

To be honest with you lads I hope it wasn’t the bug Mordran mentioned and I will see more counter-condi necromancer in the future.

Before the patch I could count the number of MinionMasters I encountered on my one finger. Seeing that every profession has 2-3 viable and versatile builds makes me nod.

Now I found some counterplay (dodge the bonedogs, save a stunbreaker for the big thingy’s charge, save Contemplation of Purity for the real condi overload, line up the minions and land Binding Blades on the necro than separate him from his minions with Hammer#5 and go for the kill…). I like this kind of gameplay a lot. Waiting with my burst for the right moment makes me enjoy the PvP.

Thanks for all the informations!

Go go MM necro!

Aggrostemma.1703:

Thank you Mordran!

To be honest with you lads I hope it wasn’t the bug Mordran mentioned and I will see more counter-condi necromancer in the future.

Before the patch I could count the number of MinionMasters I encountered on my one finger. Seeing that every profession has 2-3 viable and versatile builds makes me nod.

Now I found some counterplay (dodge the bonedogs, save a stunbreaker for the big thingy’s charge, save Contemplation of Purity for the real condi overload, line up the minions and land Binding Blades on the necro than separate him from his minions with Hammer#5 and go for the kill…). I like this kind of gameplay a lot. Waiting with my burst for the right moment makes me enjoy the PvP.

Thanks for all the informations!

Go go MM necro!

Well it could be both. There could be a bug too but I’ve been reading MM necro posts about 1 shotting guardians so I don’t think the bug made those happen.

Viable builds for Necro? Necro is my favorite class but I hope this shuts up the whiners. Yeah I agree we’ve had the short end of the stick for a while but now that it seems that’s we’re getting something lets keep things positive and give good feedback instead of just saying how Dhuumed we are as a class.