Is MM is the hambow of necromancers?
I think its more due to the fact that you aren’t really doing anything. Just like Mesmer and Phantasms. They are just summon and forget. Sure you have the special attack but other than that its just let them run wild.
I think its more due to the fact that you aren’t really doing anything. Just like Mesmer and Phantasms. They are just summon and forget. Sure you have the special attack but other than that its just let them run wild.
Yeah I can see that argument, isn’t the basic idea to just overwhelm your enemy with AI minions and conditions?
I think its more due to the fact that you aren’t really doing anything. Just like Mesmer and Phantasms. They are just summon and forget. Sure you have the special attack but other than that its just let them run wild.
Yeah I can see that argument, isn’t the basic idea to just overwhelm your enemy with AI minions and conditions?
Less so with conditions (most MM conditions come from the minions themselves), and really, minions don’t overwhelm. They just provide a steady stream of damage until their target buckles. The fact that the Necro getting CC’d doesn’t stop the minions at all also helps in that regard, but what kills you in a minion build is that you can’t simply out-tank all of the minions and the necro. None of them have heavy hits to dodge (save Charge), but just keep up a steady stream of damage.
Now, if you don’t try to out-tank the minions, you find MM’s rather easy to fight. The only fight I’ve lost to a MM in PvP was one where I was going for the trebuchet on Khylo instead of the MM manning it. Surprisingly, my Flesh Golem kept whacking at the treb while I kept the other necro (and minions) back. I could not get that to happen again if I tried, I’m sure.
I think its more due to the fact that you aren’t really doing anything. Just like Mesmer and Phantasms. They are just summon and forget. Sure you have the special attack but other than that its just let them run wild.
Yeah I can see that argument, isn’t the basic idea to just overwhelm your enemy with AI minions and conditions?
Less so with conditions (most MM conditions come from the minions themselves), and really, minions don’t overwhelm. They just provide a steady stream of damage until their target buckles. The fact that the Necro getting CC’d doesn’t stop the minions at all also helps in that regard, but what kills you in a minion build is that you can’t simply out-tank all of the minions and the necro. None of them have heavy hits to dodge (save Charge), but just keep up a steady stream of damage.
Now, if you don’t try to out-tank the minions, you find MM’s rather easy to fight. The only fight I’ve lost to a MM in PvP was one where I was going for the trebuchet on Khylo instead of the MM manning it. Surprisingly, my Flesh Golem kept whacking at the treb while I kept the other necro (and minions) back. I could not get that to happen again if I tried, I’m sure.
as another necro, i find fighting them incredibly easy. most of them play like the majority of rangers. let pet tank , get nuked by my dagger hits.
As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
People don’t understand MM. They don’t know how to build effectively, don’t know how to play it, don’t understand the minions at all, they just summon them and press random buttons. Now, I’m not saying that MM is the hardest build to play, because it isn’t, but it is one of the most knowledge intensive builds out there. But if you don’t understand a build its very hard to make a good opinion of how it works.
There is so much you have to consider and know if you are playing against people who aren’t “hurr durr roll face to win”. While the build doesn’t have the kind of micro managing it did in GW1, it has its own unique flavor, and if they made the changes I detailed in a profession-balance forum thread then the build would feel similar in its own way.
But to the hambow comparison, no they aren’t the same. The loose similarity is that they are both tanky builds that deal damage and have CC. Hambow is a lot easier to play perfectly, although if you are just considering low/mid skill players then sure, they are similar enough to compare.
MM does not suck. And you can play the summon and forget way sure… but your much more effective if stay active with your minion skills blowing up your minions at the right times, using golem charge to knock down 3 people at a time, using bone fiend to catch those pesky eles and warriors who just keep disengaging to get rid of minons. I mean your still using your other skills lol you don’t just sit there afk and let the minions do all the work. If you did that the minions wouldn’t even attack they would be studying the flowers and rocks. I think terrormancer would be the closest thing to our version of mm though.
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
MM is ok, but it is out of your personal control as to whether your minions survive. Thus at higher tiers, they are very easily countered.
The issue however, is the simple effectiveness of such a passive build, as certain builds find it hard to put out the aoe pressure required to kill of minions.
Rolyate
How do you pronounce your name?
How do you pronounce your name?
its still too easy, just like the other classes that have ai massing builds. I say delete them all and bring back the skill in the game (mm, turret engi, spirit ranger, (Mesmer would not be so bad if they couldn’t just stealth away-.-) even ele’s elemental)
ps I realise Mesmer cant be deleted =p
its still too easy, just like the other classes that have ai massing builds. I say delete them all and bring back the skill in the game (mm, turret engi, spirit ranger, (Mesmer would not be so bad if they couldn’t just stealth away-.-) even ele’s elemental)
ps I realise Mesmer cant be deleted =p
Except only two other professions have true AI builds, Mesmer (PU) and Engi (turret). Spirits have no AI at all, they are just slightly different banners, and no other profession can successfully run a summon build.
Also, what skill? The majority of popular builds have just as little skill as MM without all the bugs or weaknesses of MM and far more effectiveness.
MM is ok, but it is out of your personal control as to whether your minions survive. Thus at higher tiers, they are very easily countered.
The issue however, is the simple effectiveness of such a passive build, as certain builds find it hard to put out the aoe pressure required to kill of minions.
This isn’t at all true, if you know how to build and want to go that route (hence: knowledge intensive, not execution). If you want minions to survive though its fairly easy to make it happen.
The big issues with MM right now is the completely passive traits and the ease that they can beat certain builds with no meaningful input (as far as them being too strong situationally, there are plenty of other issues).
Refer to: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Giving-Counterplay-to-Minions/
its still too easy, just like the other classes that have ai massing builds. I say delete them all and bring back the skill in the game (mm, turret engi, spirit ranger, (Mesmer would not be so bad if they couldn’t just stealth away-.-) even ele’s elemental)
ps I realise Mesmer cant be deleted =p
Except only two other professions have true AI builds, Mesmer (PU) and Engi (turret). Spirits have no AI at all, they are just slightly different banners, and no other profession can successfully run a summon build.
Also, what skill? The majority of popular builds have just as little skill as MM without all the bugs or weaknesses of MM and far more effectiveness.
MM is ok, but it is out of your personal control as to whether your minions survive. Thus at higher tiers, they are very easily countered.
The issue however, is the simple effectiveness of such a passive build, as certain builds find it hard to put out the aoe pressure required to kill of minions.
This isn’t at all true, if you know how to build and want to go that route (hence: knowledge intensive, not execution). If you want minions to survive though its fairly easy to make it happen.
The big issues with MM right now is the completely passive traits and the ease that they can beat certain builds with no meaningful input (as far as them being too strong situationally, there are plenty of other issues).
Refer to: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Giving-Counterplay-to-Minions/
Yeah, I always found it strange that MM get singled out as relying on AI when classes like engis and mesmers use similar methods but are considered strategic. Doesn’t it all come down to how good you are regardless?
It is not necessarily like hambow because it is OP- You don’t magically slough off your weaknesses like Hambow does; you’re still vulnerable to CC and you’re still vulnerable when your bag of tricks runs dry(arguably even moreso because the other player controls when you run out of tricks, not you). An MM can be a tricky shellfish to crack open for the uninitiated, but once you get past the razzle dazzle of the zombie horde, you can knock them down.
It arguably has a low skill floor, depending on whether you consider finagling the fine aspects of the AI to be a measurement of skill or not. You could argue that this makes it similar to Hambow in a respect.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
MM faceroll… OK.
Fighting a MinionMaster is boring, but all you have to do is learn to kite minions, even considering they have huge pathing and AI issues.
I’d say that Mesmer’s Phantasms are way more faceroll than Minions… ranged, chasing you to hell, ridicle kittened damage.. Stealth allows you to soak more damage than Death Shroud.
I’d propose to kick out of the game all the nerdpriders which seek fame and glory in PVP. That would do the job.
ALPHA, BETA, several months, … 1 Year later…“When it’s ready”[cit.]
Yeah, I always found it strange that MM get singled out as relying on AI when classes like engis and mesmers use similar methods but are considered strategic. Doesn’t it all come down to how good you are regardless?
Its not even that you “rely” on AI, you actually fight against AI in many situations.
It is not necessarily like hambow because it is OP- You don’t magically slough off your weaknesses like Hambow does; you’re still vulnerable to CC and you’re still vulnerable when your bag of tricks runs dry(arguably even moreso because the other player controls when you run out of tricks, not you). An MM can be a tricky shellfish to crack open for the uninitiated, but once you get past the razzle dazzle of the zombie horde, you can knock them down.
It arguably has a low skill floor, depending on whether you consider finagling the fine aspects of the AI to be a measurement of skill or not. You could argue that this makes it similar to Hambow in a respect.
You bring up a good point: MM has an incredibly low skill floor, which everyone can agree with. It also has, I’d consider one of the strangest (not necessarily high) skill cap because once you are playing at the very top level, you are actually having to understand how to make your minions work for you, and not against you, and this often means using weird tricks.
i find that most MM necros are similar to most rangers. positively terribad. i go out of my way to engage them. it’s unfortunate.
As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
i find that most MM necros are similar to most rangers. positively terribad. i go out of my way to engage them. it’s unfortunate.
This is true.
But the other day I fought a very good MM and it was a difficult fight. So in that sense it’s like a hambow in that a good player wielding the spec is a tough fight.
There are many crappy MM necros out there mainly because MM is easy to use against unskilled hotjoin or soloqueue oponents. However, there are also some skilled MM that while time their cc and damage perfectly and can be a tough fight. MM recieve alot of hate though because of the numerous inexperienced necros playing against other inexperienced players and letting their build carry then to some degree.
So to answer your question, if you are ever insulted by an enemy for playing MM, they are most likely scrubs that need to l2p, so just lol and ignore them.