Guild Wars 2

It seemed like everyone thought RS did pretty good damage, but were we fooled by the cool animations?

On the wiki the power coefficients are listed at 0.61, 0.61, and 1.22. Overall that’s pretty weak unless it’s faster than most autoattacks. You’d need to complete the whole chain in about 2 seconds to get respectable DPS and even then it would be weaker than dagger.

I dunno are those numbers wrong or are we just suckers for cool animations?

I think we all thought it was subpar, but couldn’t really know for sure because the grandmaster trait was bugged.

To be fair, you can get some good damage out on the #4

If reapers onslaught starts to work it should have an attack speed similar to dagger auto. It can also be used with a 2h weapon so it has a relative coeff of 2.684 vs 2.8 but hits more targets.

Also it works with all the traits that effect shroud skill #1 so it can stack vuln, burns and might very quickly.

Sigmoid.7082:

If reapers onslaught starts to work it should have an attack speed similar to dagger auto. It can also be used with a 2h weapon so it has a relative coeff of 2.684 vs 2.8 but hits more targets.

Also it works with all the traits that effect shroud skill #1 so it can stack vuln, burns and might very quickly.

“Similar to Dagger Auto” kinda sucks IMHO.

Dagger Auto builds up life force, this auto loses life force at 4% per second, and requires you to take a grandmaster trait to even get this (ie you don’t have blighters boon).

And if you’re using this with a 2 handed weapon, you aren’t benefitting from the blood line that gives Dagger viability as a sustain weapon.

nekretaal.6485:

Sigmoid.7082:

If reapers onslaught starts to work it should have an attack speed similar to dagger auto. It can also be used with a 2h weapon so it has a relative coeff of 2.684 vs 2.8 but hits more targets.

Also it works with all the traits that effect shroud skill #1 so it can stack vuln, burns and might very quickly.

“Similar to Dagger Auto” kinda sucks IMHO.

Dagger Auto builds up life force, this auto loses life force at 4% per second, and requires you to take a grandmaster trait to even get this (ie you don’t have blighters boon).

And if you’re using this with a 2 handed weapon, you aren’t benefitting from the blood line that gives Dagger viability as a sustain weapon.

It does things dagger doesnt. Cant have everything on the one ability. If you want more damage use dagger, better cleave?, stack might?, vuln and burn? use the RS auto with a variety of traits that do nothing for dagger.

It does about the same damage as dagger once Reaper’s Onslaught gets fixed to, y’know, work at all. It then gives the benefits of being usable with a second health bar, applying a crapton of trait effects on the auto attack (might, vuln, burning, death perception), cleaves more targets, and comes with 4 other useful abilities, rather than dagger 2 and 3 which are kind of useless. And it’ll allow you to take 2 weapons that aren’t dagger, for greatly increased utility.

And if they keep it, it behaves as a double handed weapon.

Think it’s good where it is right now. Don’t forget it can be upgraded to do a number of different things, unlike weapon auto attacks, and you can use it while protected by Shroud, where as normal weapons you’ll be losing HP.

I was concerned it was too low originally. But its better than regular DS and reapers onslaught should bring it up to dagger level or above. But RS has might and vuln in abundance so it shouldnt be better than dagger. The main issue with reaper was greatsword and shouts.

I think it’s important to remember that RS can also spike damage with its 4 and 5 skills, the dagger auto attack is all its got for damage. So even if the 1 is slightly subpar to the dagger auto I think it will all even out. And seeing as you’re using RS you’ll probably be using dagger anyway for LF generation, not to mention that while you’re in it you can face tank a little more.

tboneking.2531:

I think it’s important to remember that RS can also spike damage with its 4 and 5 skills, the dagger auto attack is all its got for damage. So even if the 1 is slightly subpar to the dagger auto I think it will all even out. And seeing as you’re using RS you’ll probably be using dagger anyway for LF generation, not to mention that while you’re in it you can face tank a little more.

Not to mention blighter’s boon being a thing for those who don’t take reaper’s onslaught. Bit less damage, slightly more sustain. Either way, RS seems decent so far

I think the autoattack chain needs to do more damage. On a soldiers build just autoattacking the golems down I killed the golems faster with dhuumfire equipped than I did with death perception, and thats with 0 condi damage aside from spite might.

So that either means that

1: Burning too stronk
2. RS auto base damage too weak

Or maybe both. Who knows.

nearlight.3064:

I think the autoattack chain needs to do more damage. On a soldiers build just autoattacking the golems down I killed the golems faster with dhuumfire equipped than I did with death perception, and thats with 0 condi damage aside from spite might.

So that either means that

1: Burning too stronk
2. RS auto base damage too weak

Or maybe both. Who knows.

Burn to stronk. Maxed out it ends up more dps taking dhuumfire than DP..especially if you have other ways of gaining crit %.

Buring way to strong seconded. I thought RS shroud was ok dmg it just needed all the quality of life stuff it should be getting before bwe2. The main difference is the stability oh my lord the stability finally combined with nightfall from gs and I could finally get some stomps.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Buring way to strong seconded. I thought RS shroud was ok dmg it just needed all the quality of life stuff it should be getting before bwe2. The main difference is the stability oh my lord the stability finally combined with nightfall from gs and I could finally get some stomps.

Apparently our stability is getting nerfed, it wasn’t functioning right and the cooldown wasn’t getting set unless you shattered the armor. Still, you’re right though it is nice.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Buring way to strong seconded. I thought RS shroud was ok dmg it just needed all the quality of life stuff it should be getting before bwe2. The main difference is the stability oh my lord the stability finally combined with nightfall from gs and I could finally get some stomps.

Apparently our stability is getting nerfed, it wasn’t functioning right and the cooldown wasn’t getting set unless you shattered the armor. Still, you’re right though it is nice.

It will basically make our CD up to 8 seconds longer, depending on how long we wait for before we shatter the armor. It was quite broken in the beta since we, if traited, had stability on a 9 second cooldown.

Reaper Shroud needs a similar damage buff to greatsword auto, a 20% damage buff.

It is a resource you build up. You shouldn’t lose potential DPS in PvE by using your class mechanic.

I don’t want death shroud to be just an extra hp sponge, it should be an upgrade in damage as a transformation with limited duration that locks out your access to utilities and the elite.

Zenith.7301:

Reaper Shroud needs a similar damage buff to greatsword auto, a 20% damage buff.

It is a resource you build up. You shouldn’t lose potential DPS in PvE by using your class mechanic.

I don’t want death shroud to be just an extra hp sponge, it should be an upgrade in damage as a transformation with limited duration that locks out your access to utilities and the elite.

With the damage boost GS is only about 5% behind dagger auto and RS auto, with a fixed reapers onslaught, is about 6% behind. If its auto got a damage boost it would out class them both by a mile while granting might,vuln, burn. Wouldnt be very fair seeing as with a fixed onslaught + dhuumfire RS auto should out damage dagger auto.

In any situation now where you can hit any more than two targets both weapons are vastly better and single target they only GS is a bit weaker till 50% then GD spam outdoes dagger auto.

Khristophoros.7194:

It seemed like everyone thought RS did pretty good damage, but were we fooled by the cool animations?

On the wiki the power coefficients are listed at 0.61, 0.61, and 1.22. Overall that’s pretty weak unless it’s faster than most autoattacks. You’d need to complete the whole chain in about 2 seconds to get respectable DPS and even then it would be weaker than dagger.

I dunno are those numbers wrong or are we just suckers for cool animations?

we were fooled by cool animation. the same with Greatsword skills. Gravedigger has 50-60% unnecessary animation. it does a hover in the air, a swing that doesn’t do dmg, and then the actual attack starts. Berserker has a utility skill that summon a rock and punches it, and all that in 0.5s. hahahaha. when i saw in on twitch live i was like “wth was that speed?”. if you watch the skill from the youtube video it’s like fast forward, while Gravedigger is on slow motion

Dakunaito.9602:

Khristophoros.7194:

It seemed like everyone thought RS did pretty good damage, but were we fooled by the cool animations?

On the wiki the power coefficients are listed at 0.61, 0.61, and 1.22. Overall that’s pretty weak unless it’s faster than most autoattacks. You’d need to complete the whole chain in about 2 seconds to get respectable DPS and even then it would be weaker than dagger.

I dunno are those numbers wrong or are we just suckers for cool animations?

we were fooled by cool animation. the same with Greatsword skills. Gravedigger has 50-60% unnecessary animation. it does a hover in the air, a swing that doesn’t do dmg, and then the actual attack starts. Berserker has a utility skill that summon a rock and punches it, and all that in 0.5s. hahahaha. when i saw in on twitch live i was like “wth was that speed?”. if you watch the skill from the youtube video it’s like fast forward, while Gravedigger is on slow motion

Right, and Gravedigger was critting for 9k before the 50% damage buff. That quick and smooth rock punch won’t be hitting for 15k damage every 2 seconds. The whole point of the Greatsword is extremely slow, extremely hard hitting attacks. And now that it’s being buffed so the hard hitting part is true, the greatsword has a useful and interesting niche. Dagger is for quick, reliable damage, greatsword is for slow, huge aoe damage.

Sigmoid.7082:

Zenith.7301:

Reaper Shroud needs a similar damage buff to greatsword auto, a 20% damage buff.

It is a resource you build up. You shouldn’t lose potential DPS in PvE by using your class mechanic.

I don’t want death shroud to be just an extra hp sponge, it should be an upgrade in damage as a transformation with limited duration that locks out your access to utilities and the elite.

With the damage boost GS is only about 5% behind dagger auto and RS auto, with a fixed reapers onslaught, is about 6% behind. If its auto got a damage boost it would out class them both by a mile while granting might,vuln, burn. Wouldnt be very fair seeing as with a fixed onslaught + dhuumfire RS auto should out damage dagger auto.

In any situation now where you can hit any more than two targets both weapons are vastly better and single target they only GS is a bit weaker till 50% then GD spam outdoes dagger auto.

Yikes, that’s too low too.

GS has no defense, & barely any lifeforce it is a total glass cannon. Even zerk staff ele has some defensive skills and range.

If GS is not best in the game strong, it’s garbage.

nekretaal.6485:

Sigmoid.7082:

Zenith.7301:

Reaper Shroud needs a similar damage buff to greatsword auto, a 20% damage buff.

It is a resource you build up. You shouldn’t lose potential DPS in PvE by using your class mechanic.

I don’t want death shroud to be just an extra hp sponge, it should be an upgrade in damage as a transformation with limited duration that locks out your access to utilities and the elite.

With the damage boost GS is only about 5% behind dagger auto and RS auto, with a fixed reapers onslaught, is about 6% behind. If its auto got a damage boost it would out class them both by a mile while granting might,vuln, burn. Wouldnt be very fair seeing as with a fixed onslaught + dhuumfire RS auto should out damage dagger auto.

In any situation now where you can hit any more than two targets both weapons are vastly better and single target they only GS is a bit weaker till 50% then GD spam outdoes dagger auto.

Yikes, that’s too low too.

GS has no defense, & barely any lifeforce it is a total glass cannon. Even zerk staff ele has some defensive skills and range.

If GS is not best in the game strong, it’s garbage.

In what game mode are you referring to? And in what facet of what game mode do you refer to as well? This post was clearly about pve dps of the weapons.

And if you have many enemies, (PvE or WvW or often mid in PvP), you can get a mass of LF from GS and the heal-shout. GS was not meant to be a dueling weapon, it fill the niche we have been asking for a long time: making us relevant in team fights.

Also need to test if lf gain that has been added to GS auto is exclusive of targets. Daggers auto will only gain 2% then 6% regardless of if you hit 2 targets or 1. If GS auto is 1%, 1%, 3%…..is that going to be regardless of targets or stack per target making a max of 3%, 3%, 9%.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Right, and Gravedigger was critting for 9k before the 50% damage buff. That quick and smooth rock punch won’t be hitting for 15k damage every 2 seconds. The whole point of the Greatsword is extremely slow, extremely hard hitting attacks. And now that it’s being buffed so the hard hitting part is true, the greatsword has a useful and interesting niche. Dagger is for quick, reliable damage, greatsword is for slow, huge aoe damage.

it doesn’t matter if that skill of Berserker won’t do 15k dmg. you’re totally missing the point. the point is that they have dramatically sped up the animation so that the skill is not slow and be drawback for Berserker. i’m sorry that i’m not like you and i don’t bait from the 9k crit dmg, while the skill has ~60% unnecessary animation. 1s more cast time from other 1-hit Greatsword skill isn’t justifiable. now that you mentioned hard hitting, what about rest skills? only 1 skill with high dmg? hahahaha nice joke. as for huge aoe, Gravedigger has at least 3 times more cone range than Ele Fire Grab and Drake Breath which hit 5 targets, and yet Gravedigger only hits 3 targets. how is that possible?

Dakunaito.9602:

Captain Unusual.9163:

Right, and Gravedigger was critting for 9k before the 50% damage buff. That quick and smooth rock punch won’t be hitting for 15k damage every 2 seconds. The whole point of the Greatsword is extremely slow, extremely hard hitting attacks. And now that it’s being buffed so the hard hitting part is true, the greatsword has a useful and interesting niche. Dagger is for quick, reliable damage, greatsword is for slow, huge aoe damage.

it doesn’t matter if that skill of Berserker won’t do 15k dmg. you’re totally missing the point. the point is that they have dramatically sped up the animation so that the skill is not slow and be drawback for Berserker. i’m sorry that i’m not like you and i don’t bait from the 9k crit dmg, while the skill has ~60% unnecessary animation. 1s more cast time from other 1-hit Greatsword skill isn’t justifiable. now that you mentioned hard hitting, what about rest skills? only 1 skill with high dmg? hahahaha nice joke. as for huge aoe, Gravedigger has at least 3 times more cone range than Ele Fire Grab and Drake Breath which hit 5 targets, and yet Gravedigger only hits 3 targets. how is that possible?

Gravedigger hits 5 targets though: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gravedigger

Sigmoid.7082:

Zenith.7301:

Reaper Shroud needs a similar damage buff to greatsword auto, a 20% damage buff.

It is a resource you build up. You shouldn’t lose potential DPS in PvE by using your class mechanic.

I don’t want death shroud to be just an extra hp sponge, it should be an upgrade in damage as a transformation with limited duration that locks out your access to utilities and the elite.

With the damage boost GS is only about 5% behind dagger auto and RS auto, with a fixed reapers onslaught, is about 6% behind. If its auto got a damage boost it would out class them both by a mile while granting might,vuln, burn. Wouldnt be very fair seeing as with a fixed onslaught + dhuumfire RS auto should out damage dagger auto.

In any situation now where you can hit any more than two targets both weapons are vastly better and single target they only GS is a bit weaker till 50% then GD spam outdoes dagger auto.

GS won’t be behind dagger, when talking about GS you need to consider its DPS as a combination of the autoattack and gravedigger.

I’m sorry, but I don’t want my class mechanic balanced around pvp, keep it split between formats if necessary.

If greatsword does better DPS than reaper shroud, traits like Reaper’s Onslaught will become obsolete as you’ll never want to be in reaper’s shroud.

And no, might stack and vulnerability is worthless in PvE. In a proper PvE group the elementalist and PSEA warrior have the group capped at permanent fury and 25 might stacks the entire time, as well as 25 vulnerability.

So the reaper shroud might/vulnerability from the auto becomes redundant.

Muchacho.2390:

Dakunaito.9602:

Captain Unusual.9163:

Right, and Gravedigger was critting for 9k before the 50% damage buff. That quick and smooth rock punch won’t be hitting for 15k damage every 2 seconds. The whole point of the Greatsword is extremely slow, extremely hard hitting attacks. And now that it’s being buffed so the hard hitting part is true, the greatsword has a useful and interesting niche. Dagger is for quick, reliable damage, greatsword is for slow, huge aoe damage.

it doesn’t matter if that skill of Berserker won’t do 15k dmg. you’re totally missing the point. the point is that they have dramatically sped up the animation so that the skill is not slow and be drawback for Berserker. i’m sorry that i’m not like you and i don’t bait from the 9k crit dmg, while the skill has ~60% unnecessary animation. 1s more cast time from other 1-hit Greatsword skill isn’t justifiable. now that you mentioned hard hitting, what about rest skills? only 1 skill with high dmg? hahahaha nice joke. as for huge aoe, Gravedigger has at least 3 times more cone range than Ele Fire Grab and Drake Breath which hit 5 targets, and yet Gravedigger only hits 3 targets. how is that possible?

Gravedigger hits 5 targets though: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gravedigger

Big whoop, PvE bosses are not 5 targets, just one, and we don’t have any other competitive DPS weapons in PvE besides greatsword….

There won’t be slipts on skills because anet won’t do it and you are only looking at group content. You also have to consider the other facets of pve as well as pvp when Balancing. In solo play the might and vuln is extremely useful and allows you to be very strong while being self sufficient. Then you have group evenys where the higher target limit is better etc etc. It’s not at clear cut as it may seem because of how anet has chosen to balance their game.

We also have no idea of new pve challenges and mechanics that may make self sufficiency more desirable.

I certainly hope so.

-Vanilla: “LF2M 50 Fractals, MetaZerk. NO NECRO”

-HoT: “LF3M Mordrem’s Tower Raid. NO NECRO”

Zenith.7301:

Reaper Shroud needs a similar damage buff to greatsword auto, a 20% damage buff.

It is a resource you build up. You shouldn’t lose potential DPS in PvE by using your class mechanic.

I don’t want death shroud to be just an extra hp sponge, it should be an upgrade in damage as a transformation with limited duration that locks out your access to utilities and the elite.

This^

I have yet to see a reasonable counter argument to this. Otherwise, why would we ever use RS other than to flash it as a defensive tool? Why would I nerf myself? If RS remains a dps loss in group pve, that makes all the traits supporting it trash too…in pve. With all the negatives the class has to deal with because of RS/DS…it needs to be a beast.

Sigmoid.7082:

There won’t be slipts on skills because anet won’t do it and you are only looking at group content. You also have to consider the other facets of pve as well as pvp when Balancing. In solo play the might and vuln is extremely useful and allows you to be very strong while being self sufficient. Then you have group evenys where the higher target limit is better etc etc. It’s not at clear cut as it may seem because of how anet has chosen to balance their game.

We also have no idea of new pve challenges and mechanics that may make self sufficiency more desirable.

Although new content matters, the current content is here and we are near useless for it.

As for being, “clear cut,” the Elementalist is proof they don’t have any idea how balancing works.

As of this moment, reaper’s shroud is fine. I am a bit concerned that it needs to be tied to reaper’s onslaught to be really competitive, but otherwise it isn’t that bad at all. With onslaught the shroud AA is as strong as the swords AA, which is weaker than the dagger. So if you were expecting shroud to be uber burst mode, it won’t be.

There are a couple of things to consider, though, which is why at its current DPS it is fine.

#1: Reaper Shroud is not exclusive with any weapon. You can take both, so there isn’t actually a “loss” here.

#2: Reaper’s Shroud gives a layer of protection via life force, so it is effectively a defensive bubble with minute damage loss. This alone makes it worth using.

#3: Reaper’s Shroud gets a whole ton of buffs from different traits. During the previous Beta, I experimented with a shroud build that had Rending Shroud, Reaper’s Might, Unyielding Blast, Vital Persistence, Dhuumfire, and Decimate Defenses in full zerker. The thing was insane. It self-stacked 25 might, doled out 25 AoE Vulnerability, burned with every auto, could stay in shroud form for well over a minute, and this was back when onslaught was bugged.

The only disadvantage to Reaper Shroud is that necros don’t have good ranged power options, and Life Blast previously held this position.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As of this moment, reaper’s shroud is fine. I am a bit concerned that it needs to be tied to reaper’s onslaught to be really competitive, but otherwise it isn’t that bad at all. With onslaught the shroud AA is as strong as the swords AA, which is weaker than the dagger. So if you were expecting shroud to be uber burst mode, it won’t be.

There are a couple of things to consider, though, which is why at its current DPS it is fine.

#1: Reaper Shroud is not exclusive with any weapon. You can take both, so there isn’t actually a “loss” here.

#2: Reaper’s Shroud gives a layer of protection via life force, so it is effectively a defensive bubble with minute damage loss. This alone makes it worth using.

#3: Reaper’s Shroud gets a whole ton of buffs from different traits. During the previous Beta, I experimented with a shroud build that had Rending Shroud, Reaper’s Might, Unyielding Blast, Vital Persistence, Dhuumfire, and Decimate Defenses in full zerker. The thing was insane. It self-stacked 25 might, doled out 25 AoE Vulnerability, burned with every auto, could stay in shroud form for well over a minute, and this was back when onslaught was bugged.

The only disadvantage to Reaper Shroud is that necros don’t have good ranged power options, and Life Blast previously held this position.

in pve it’s so-so, but in pvp players will not stand still to hit them and stack burn, vuln, might etc, and if you get targeted from more than 1-2 players your shroud might not hold out for 3s. they gave the ability to stack might+vuln so that you do some descent dmg, otherwise the dmg is trash. and imo with 25might-25vuln the dmg is way too low. also while in shroud you can’t use utilities. why? this has to get tweaked and we be able to use utilities in shroud

Dakunaito.9602:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As of this moment, reaper’s shroud is fine. I am a bit concerned that it needs to be tied to reaper’s onslaught to be really competitive, but otherwise it isn’t that bad at all. With onslaught the shroud AA is as strong as the swords AA, which is weaker than the dagger. So if you were expecting shroud to be uber burst mode, it won’t be.

There are a couple of things to consider, though, which is why at its current DPS it is fine.

#1: Reaper Shroud is not exclusive with any weapon. You can take both, so there isn’t actually a “loss” here.

#2: Reaper’s Shroud gives a layer of protection via life force, so it is effectively a defensive bubble with minute damage loss. This alone makes it worth using.

#3: Reaper’s Shroud gets a whole ton of buffs from different traits. During the previous Beta, I experimented with a shroud build that had Rending Shroud, Reaper’s Might, Unyielding Blast, Vital Persistence, Dhuumfire, and Decimate Defenses in full zerker. The thing was insane. It self-stacked 25 might, doled out 25 AoE Vulnerability, burned with every auto, could stay in shroud form for well over a minute, and this was back when onslaught was bugged.

The only disadvantage to Reaper Shroud is that necros don’t have good ranged power options, and Life Blast previously held this position.

in pve it’s so-so, but in pvp players will not stand still to hit them and stack burn, vuln, might etc, and if you get targeted from more than 1-2 players your shroud might not hold out for 3s. they gave the ability to stack might+vuln so that you do some descent dmg, otherwise the dmg is trash. and imo with 25might-25vuln the dmg is way too low. also while in shroud you can’t use utilities. why? this has to get tweaked and we be able to use utilities in shroud

I tested Reaper in PvP for the majority of my time in the beta. I must say that with a soldier/celestial amulet, this thing is a monster in 1 v 1 fights, since it has pretty decent damage either way, and the burning from dhuumfire along with the poison from RS4 provide good pressure condis for when your foes pop something like defy pain. The sustain provided by just spamming auto in reaper shroud was also quite welcome, for you could pop the form and heal up a bit while waiting for a thief to come out of hiding.

A marauder Reaper was not all that hot, however. I did not feel like it was threatening enough to warrant such a lack in defense, since a marauder warrior could just do the same job better. I kind of felt like that was by design, since they want the Reaper to be more of a brawler in sPvP and less of a “carry”. My experience is strictly limited to 1 v 1, unfortunately, since this is what I spend all of my time doing, so take what I am saying with a spoon of salt. I only played several unranked games where I found the reaper to perform quite well, but I have no idea how it would function in actual high-tier sPvP.

If you have to take 3-4 traits, including 2 grandmasters and all you get is dagger/Warhorn DPS, that sucks.

nekretaal.6485:

If you have to take 3-4 traits, including 2 grandmasters and all you get is dagger/Warhorn DPS, that sucks.

I’m not sure if you need to take 3-4 traits but I do aggree with the sentiment reaper shroud #1 should have dps close to dagger untraited. More targets vs better life force regen seems like a fair trade off.

I read most posts in this Thread and it feels like they differ from the “Headline” somewhat.

Is it Reaper Shroud Dmg in genral that u think is to low ? or is It as I read it in the post only the Reapers Shroud AA thats to low ?

Cause imho the genral dmg of Reaper Shroud is good, thats the feel I got from BWE and Iv never hit harder in 3y then Iv done with Exectuioner Scythe or done more AoE dmg in 1-skill then with RS#4.

just curious what exactly some ppl think is to low ?

RS#4 is too weak for its duration. I can agree with that. The auto seems weak but i still think its fine considering the self buff potential and attack speed (with and without reapers onslaught).

spoj.9672:

RS#4 is too weak for its duration. I can agree with that. The auto seems weak but i still think its fine considering the self buff potential and attack speed (with and without reapers onslaught).

Can you embellish on what you mean about RS4 being too weak for its duration? I haven’t bought HoT so I never got to test it and I havent seen any specifics about the damage it does. Does the whirl finisher not add enough damage? Ive seen some pretty good Poison stacks from it, but it doesn’t mean they were doing much for it.

Well to put it simply the direct damage portion is low damage considering the cast time. Its one of those cases where auto attacking with anything would be stronger. Considering its a high cool down aoe burst skill it should actually have damage to reflect that surely? Life transfer has always been the perfect example of this pathetically too weak for its cast time state. RS#4 is only a very slight improvement. But not enough.

Great. Just what we need, more burst skills with lower DPS than dagger.

Tim.6450:

nekretaal.6485:

If you have to take 3-4 traits, including 2 grandmasters and all you get is dagger/Warhorn DPS, that sucks.

I’m not sure if you need to take 3-4 traits but I do aggree with the sentiment reaper shroud #1 should have dps close to dagger untraited. More targets vs better life force regen seems like a fair trade off.

I’m pretty sure you only need one trait, and that is the one increasing Reaper Shroud AS. Dhuumfire burning is bonus damage, and you can stack 25 vuln and 25 selfmight and sustain them by yourself really easy on multiple targets.

spoj.9672:

Well to put it simply the direct damage portion is low damage considering the cast time. Its one of those cases where auto attacking with anything would be stronger. Considering its a high cool down aoe burst skill it should actually have damage to reflect that surely? Life transfer has always been the perfect example of this pathetically too weak for its cast time state. RS#4 is only a very slight improvement. But not enough.

It could use a slight damage boost. The thing with this skill is its damage isnt everything. It hits 5 targets 12 times each for 60 hits total, that has a lot of synergy with blood magic traits. It causes 12 stacks of poison to 5 targets for a total of 60 stacks from the one skill. It acts as a whirl finisher that shoots out 12 bolts for a variety of effects, interacting with our own fields allowing us to have leeching bolts, cleansing bolts, ethereal bolts or poison bolts.

Sigmoid.7082:

spoj.9672:

Well to put it simply the direct damage portion is low damage considering the cast time. Its one of those cases where auto attacking with anything would be stronger. Considering its a high cool down aoe burst skill it should actually have damage to reflect that surely? Life transfer has always been the perfect example of this pathetically too weak for its cast time state. RS#4 is only a very slight improvement. But not enough.

It could use a slight damage boost. The thing with this skill is its damage isnt everything. It hits 5 targets 12 times each for 60 hits total, that has a lot of synergy with blood magic traits. It causes 12 stacks of poison to 5 targets for a total of 60 stacks from the one skill. It acts as a whirl finisher that shoots out 12 bolts for a variety of effects, interacting with our own fields allowing us to have leeching bolts, cleansing bolts, ethereal bolts or poison bolts.

These are the same benefits that other professions burst skills have…yet they aren’t limited in their burst by assuming the presence of these additional benefits.

Shiki.7148:

Tim.6450:

nekretaal.6485:

If you have to take 3-4 traits, including 2 grandmasters and all you get is dagger/Warhorn DPS, that sucks.

I’m not sure if you need to take 3-4 traits but I do aggree with the sentiment reaper shroud #1 should have dps close to dagger untraited. More targets vs better life force regen seems like a fair trade off.

I’m pretty sure you only need one trait, and that is the one increasing Reaper Shroud AS. Dhuumfire burning is bonus damage, and you can stack 25 vuln and 25 selfmight and sustain them by yourself really easy on multiple targets.

I’m assuming your reply is a pvp based one? If not, the 25 vuln and 25 might argument is invalidated in any group pve encounter as we could literally not invest in might or vuln at all and still get the benefit of 25 vuln and 25 might from our group mates. These selfish traits are redundant…especially since we can’t be a legitimate candidate to share the might with our group. There is definitely more than one trait to get us to the increased attack speed in shroud, the 25 self might, and the 25 vuln.

spoj.9672:

Well to put it simply the direct damage portion is low damage considering the cast time. Its one of those cases where auto attacking with anything would be stronger. Considering its a high cool down aoe burst skill it should actually have damage to reflect that surely? Life transfer has always been the perfect example of this pathetically too weak for its cast time state. RS#4 is only a very slight improvement. But not enough.

True but it also puts 12 poison stacks on your targets for 4 seconds. In pvp this is alot of damage and it is really good for cleaving downed bodies. Because of that i think they will be careful with the direct damage part on this skill.

They clearly designed this skill more with pvp in mind.

ODB.6891:

Sigmoid.7082:

spoj.9672:

Well to put it simply the direct damage portion is low damage considering the cast time. Its one of those cases where auto attacking with anything would be stronger. Considering its a high cool down aoe burst skill it should actually have damage to reflect that surely? Life transfer has always been the perfect example of this pathetically too weak for its cast time state. RS#4 is only a very slight improvement. But not enough.

It could use a slight damage boost. The thing with this skill is its damage isnt everything. It hits 5 targets 12 times each for 60 hits total, that has a lot of synergy with blood magic traits. It causes 12 stacks of poison to 5 targets for a total of 60 stacks from the one skill. It acts as a whirl finisher that shoots out 12 bolts for a variety of effects, interacting with our own fields allowing us to have leeching bolts, cleansing bolts, ethereal bolts or poison bolts.

These are the same benefits that other professions burst skills have…yet they aren’t limited in their burst by assuming the presence of these additional benefits.

Then maybe its the thought of it as a burst skill that needs to change. Also its hard to just compare skill to skill without taking the whole class into account but its only really comparable to whirling axe imho. Its an aoe skill with so much utility and synergy within our own skillset I dont believe massively increasing its damage is a thing.

ODB.6891:

Shiki.7148:

Tim.6450:

nekretaal.6485:

If you have to take 3-4 traits, including 2 grandmasters and all you get is dagger/Warhorn DPS, that sucks.

I’m not sure if you need to take 3-4 traits but I do aggree with the sentiment reaper shroud #1 should have dps close to dagger untraited. More targets vs better life force regen seems like a fair trade off.

I’m pretty sure you only need one trait, and that is the one increasing Reaper Shroud AS. Dhuumfire burning is bonus damage, and you can stack 25 vuln and 25 selfmight and sustain them by yourself really easy on multiple targets.

I’m assuming your reply is a pvp based one? If not, the 25 vuln and 25 might argument is invalidated in any group pve encounter as we could literally not invest in might or vuln at all and still get the benefit of 25 vuln and 25 might from our group mates. These selfish traits are redundant…especially since we can’t be a legitimate candidate to share the might with our group. There is definitely more than one trait to get us to the increased attack speed in shroud, the 25 self might, and the 25 vuln.

For the current set of pve encounters this is true. We dont know what will happen to mob ai nor what is going to be in the new encounters. Self sufficiency may be very useful depending on what sort of challenges there are for groups and then there is also solo play where these skills are not redundant at all.

Ravezaar.4951:

I read most posts in this Thread and it feels like they differ from the “Headline” somewhat.

Is it Reaper Shroud Dmg in genral that u think is to low ? or is It as I read it in the post only the Reapers Shroud AA thats to low ?

Cause imho the genral dmg of Reaper Shroud is good, thats the feel I got from BWE and Iv never hit harder in 3y then Iv done with Exectuioner Scythe or done more AoE dmg in 1-skill then with RS#4.

just curious what exactly some ppl think is to low ?

the thread says “shroud damage”. even with 25 might + 25 vuln the dmg is very low. have you ever played Ele? each dagger skill does 1.5-2.5k+ dmg without might-vuln, and burn is 2-3 times better than poison

Sigmoid.7082:

Then maybe its the thought of it as a burst skill that needs to change. Also its hard to just compare skill to skill without taking the whole class into account but its only really comparable to whirling axe imho. Its an aoe skill with so much utility and synergy within our own skillset I dont believe massively increasing its damage is a thing.

The similar skills from other professions are whirling axe and whirling wrath. Honestly, Soul Spiral doesn’t have any more utility/synergy with reaper than the corresponding abilities have with the other professions similar attack. They all proc on hit/crit traits and are whirl finishers in combo fields. Ours has poison application instead of the projectiles the guardian one has. Each class has condi effects upon crit/hits. No real difference in synergy/utility. The only real difference is apparently damage output. As for changing it to not be a burst ability….why? If its good for other front line builds to have pbaoe burst…why not us?

For the current set of pve encounters this is true. We dont know what will happen to mob ai nor what is going to be in the new encounters. Self sufficiency may be very useful depending on what sort of challenges there are for groups and then there is also solo play where these skills are not redundant at all.

Solo play can be done naked successfully….nothing should be balanced based on solo play…at least nothing that affects group play.

ODB.6891:

Sigmoid.7082:

Then maybe its the thought of it as a burst skill that needs to change. Also its hard to just compare skill to skill without taking the whole class into account but its only really comparable to whirling axe imho. Its an aoe skill with so much utility and synergy within our own skillset I dont believe massively increasing its damage is a thing.

The similar skills from other professions are whirling axe and whirling wrath. Honestly, Soul Spiral doesn’t have any more utility/synergy with reaper than the corresponding abilities have with the other professions similar attack. They all proc on hit/crit traits and are whirl finishers in combo fields. Ours has poison application instead of the projectiles the guardian one has. Each class has condi effects upon crit/hits. No real difference in synergy/utility. The only real difference is apparently damage output. As for changing it to not be a burst ability….why? If its good for other front line builds to have pbaoe burst…why not us?

Whirling wrath isn’t similar at all, its to short. Whirling Axe is the only similar skill to soul spiral. Whirling wrath should be compared to grave digger if anything.

Damage output wise between soul spiral and whirling axe is very small so it doesn’t do any better. Its 2.8 soul spiral vs 2.82 whirling axe so i dont understand the complaint on its damage. They both are whirl finishers but we have access to wider variety of fields than warrior so we can get more effects from it as well as ours stacking poison. Ours looks better in most ways so I dont understand the complaint. Traited it can even heal you for 3k+ or have an extremely low cooldown when things keep dying.