Guild Wars 2

I suppose this will be a long term balance issue, but from what we know so far, what do you guys think? Does the scourge have enough utility and usefulness overall to make it worth sacrificing shroud?

I for one am really happy to see a spec for necro that gives us some support utility, but I’m not sure I’m convinced it’s worth losing shroud. I may play PoF through as a reaper.

As someone who plays using shroud very minimally and has been looking for a decent support option on necro. Yes.

In PvE and WvW the Scourge will be really good (maybe not in raids or top fractals, but who know…).
In sPvP his defences are lower than the Reaper and even the Core necro (for different reasons and skill combos), and his damage output will not be enough to justify a similar lack of survavibility.

There’s different things about that “mesmer” mechanic adapted to the necro that we need to know before make real suppositions.

In sPvP the new things granted by the scourge are that you can obtain the corrupted boons from your enemies and you obtain a Portal, that’s the only reasons that I see to play a scourge. It have lesser survavibility than the core necro and the dps will not be so much higher than using the actual Reaper combo. Also the strategy of the Scourge is to corrupt boons all the time and nothing more, living you with only a Portal to escape from the death (if the enemy don’t CC you to the hell as they already do, still if using the reaper we have different ways to obtain stability). I see it as the easiest class to kill ever made in this game. Let’s hope that I’m wrong there will be enough Barrier, Heal and Support to survive and support our allies, making of us a real support class and no more a “corrupt and die” bot.

I’m not positive about the Scourge mechanic because I mainly play sPvP, but I’m curious to discover how different trait combinations will work on it.
Before HoT I made a really strong hybrid build and with the Scourge I should be able to bring it back, then I will to try it.

Some builds will highly benefit from the Scourge, others will do way better using the Reaper. Also because ANet will change the Reaper traits to make it more Power oriented, forcing all the players that want to play Conditions to chose the Scourge.

Throw salt on me if you want but I feel like scourge will be kinda like the druid spec with a little more cc thrown in. Like it’s support but can be worth to run dps with a little utility.

We’ll have to wait and see with the Scourge in my opinion. The damage in PvE/WvW might be great but I’m wondering if the activation of skills will be too slow because of the dependency on the Shades. Therefore leading to lower dps and an easier target in PvP, unless we somehow figure out how to spam Barrier.

Mechanically, you lost shroud for essentially tool kits that you can’t customize and turrets (but at least you can weapon swap.)

Everybody’s excited about barrier, but it looks like many classes have barrier and that that Scourge might not even be the best at barrier/barrier sharing.

I don’t see extra damage and unique damage buffs that you can share, so that means raids are out.

I think losing that shroud skills kills a lot of what made the class advantageous in fractals. The class was never close to the best there, but it was a safe pick to take a pug there.

I think losing the shroud will kill a lot of your ability to survive mistakes in general pvE and story mode. Doubly so, without any protections or extra dodges.

Depending on the cast time and range of that teleport, the Scourge could be competitive in high level pvp in a way that the no z-Axis ports reaper and necromancer never was. This is just an observation that the landspeed travel time of rotating is so bad on the class that it isn’t viable. On the other hand, the scourge looks worse in actual combat than both the necromancer and reaper.

In WvW, the minute you venture away from the Zerg you are toast.

I’m not sold on the class. Same low damage. Same low stability and no extra dodges. Same stunbreaks glued to the bar. Same no group buffs that anybody wants.

What nobody else has talked about yet is that the Scorge F1 is basically a turret and pvpers in this game hate hate hate turrets. I expect that all abilities tied to turret like activation will be nerfed into uselessness. Don’t count on them.

shroud will remain the best for frontline necro.. midline and backline wells might want to run sourge since they will be out of the real damage. have to wait and see

Scourge will be the only profession sharing basically invulns via barrier. If really other invulns get replaced by barrier like stone signet, endure pain and such i see this specialisation really wanted since no one has as much sustain as before.

Talking for PvE

I think it is. Everyone just mentions Barrier, but doesn’t mention the good Condition DPS Traits, or the Torch abilities.

Enemies will have boons in the expansion, same for bosses probably. Barrier wise, they are probably making new mechanics where it can shine, or might be needed.

The Condition Traits, and addition of the Torch are a huge buff for Condition Necros. Also we won’t be forced into melee as much just for the cancer Deathly Chill crap. We have actual access to Torment also, and more burns.

The biggest thing that Scourge needs though is proper synergy of Traits. Like Dhuumfire working with Shades. This is a major one for DPS. Also Soul Reaping needs to reduce the CD on the skills, and increase the Scourge Life Force bar.

With Scourge I see an amazing spec, but only if Traits are tuned to work with it. I see it doing great DPS, but also having a pure support build side when needed.

Also we still don’t know two Minor Traits, and will know way more August 22nd when they allow Elite Spec play in WvW and PvP for the preview.

nekretaal.6485:

What nobody else has talked about yet is that the Scorge F1 is basically a turret and pvpers in this game hate hate hate turrets. I expect that all abilities tied to turret like activation will be nerfed into uselessness. Don’t count on them.

Assuming each skill behaves like shroud skills, shroud 1 will also apply Dhuumfire.

If they wvw nerf deathly chill the choice seems to come down to scourge for condi and reaper for power.

I’m on the fence because I built for wvw celestial power boon corrupts but was forced into deathly chill hybrid. But as full celestial I can make use of the healing power with barriers and still have boon corruption.

Depending on the cast time and range of that teleport

Sand Swell

Dirame.8521:

We’ll have to wait and see with the Scourge in my opinion. The damage in PvE/WvW might be great but I’m wondering if the activation of skills will be too slow because of the dependency on the Shades. Therefore leading to lower dps and an easier target in PvP, unless we somehow figure out how to spam Barrier.

Shades appear to be more of an area/range multiplier than a force multiplier because the F2~4 skills read “you and your sand shades” and “Targets affected by this ability can only be affected once per cast/pluse.” F1 seems to be the only exception.

Warcry.1596:

Assuming each skill behaves like shroud skills, shroud 1 will also apply Dhuumfire.

Scourge not-shroud skill 1 is Manifest Sand Shade. Unlike shroud skill 1s, it doesn’t seem to be a cooldown-free basic attack which you can spam.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Manifest_Sand_Shade

Max count 3. Count recharge 15s.

Maybe Dhuumfire will apply when sand shades attack on casting another shade ability?

Shades attack when you active a F1-5 skill, then when you cast another shade or active a Fx skill they Hit, activating Dhuumfire.
That’s the theory.

That also is a big problem for the shades because you can active them only few times and using your mechanic skills (losing defensive skills to inflict Poor damage).

Active a Fx every 5-20 second to inflict 3 stack of torment for 2 seconds is not the best skill ever, but is still possible. You also need LF to summon and active Shades.

There’s also to know how they work and interact with traits with F5 because the Desert Shroud last 6 seconds and spam 7 torment.
The shades are activated only Once? They continue to inflict the shroud 1 torment Plus they’re torment? They continue to spam Dhuumfire while the skill is active because they hit the enemy?
Also, Dhuumfire will inflict only 1 burn on a target still if 3 shades hit it?

There’s a large amount of things that we need to know to say if that elite is strong or not.

For example, 1 Burn every time you active a shade skill will make Dhuumfire really weak, up to 3 will make it good, 1×7 activations of Desert Shroud will make it really good, 3(or 4 counting you)x7 activations of DS will make ti insanely OP.

There’s too much things that we have to know to say if lose the shroud will grant us good or worst things

Caeledh.5437:

Warcry.1596:

Assuming each skill behaves like shroud skills, shroud 1 will also apply Dhuumfire.

Scourge not-shroud skill 1 is Manifest Sand Shade. Unlike shroud skill 1s, it doesn’t seem to be a cooldown-free basic attack which you can spam.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Manifest_Sand_Shade

Max count 3. Count recharge 15s.

Maybe Dhuumfire will apply when sand shades attack on casting another shade ability?

Makes sense!

For PvP and roaming in WvW, my guess is no. You lose too much personal survivability.

Scourge brings a whole new support play style to necros while also putting out decent condi damage and I’m really looking forward to it.

At least on paper, anet has done very well giving reapers and scourges a decisive role difference.

I’m wondering how barrier is going to work with shroud though. If I enter reaper shroud and an ally scourge casts barrier on me… is the barrier going to be wasted?

I don’t think we’ll benefit from the innate shroud’s damage reduction as before but for sure Scourge will have the ways to be in pair with our Shrouds when it comes to survivability.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Empowerment

Manifest Sand Shade grants a barrier to allies near it.

Barrier: 2020
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 300

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Savant

You can summon only one shade at a time. This greater shade has reduced recharge. You affect more targets and influence a larger area with Shade skills.
A greater shade counts as three shades for related traits.

Increased Targets: 5
Recharge Reduced: 33%
Radius Increased: 120

One of the best thing using shroud instead of barrier is that you can use the Spectral Armor while in Shroud to obtain a sort of immunity (8k every sec while hit is really good ti hugely mitigate the damage, is similar to a immunity skill, expecially in 1v1).
About the damage reduction, maybe while you use the F5 you obtain it, but it’s all theory.

Anyway the combo Shroud+Spectral Armor (expecially if traited to 9 seconds) will make even the Core class obtain more survavibility than the Scourge.
Also the Barriers grant a fixed amount of damage adsorbtion, while the Shroud grant a full meatshield.

Scourge have lesser survavibility via meatshield strategy (the only we have, still using the scourge, they only called it Barrier…) but grant it to allies and that’s his strength.
if someone manage to don’t be heavly focused and don’t die every 5 seconds, there’s a hope to use it in sPvP as a support, but the hate against the scourge will be so high that it will be focused at 100%. Easier to kill and more dangerous to let alive. Not a chance to survive in a teamfight.

With all the incoming boon rip and denial, support necro with barrier will be pretty valuable in wvw group play.

Barrier isn’t a boon or counterable aside from cleaving through it or waiting it out from what I’ve seen.

Keep in mind all regular skills (except greatsword and shouts) should be available outside of shroud for counterplay.

Scourge might still be very dependant on stacking with a dedicated healer and boon-sharer. I have a hard time imagining a raid slot in Shaman equipment with Curses, Blood Magic, and Scourge.

I don’t want to bring the doom on our future elite spec, but i doubt we will finally have a spot on raids. In fractals, MAYBE, we will be accepted, but i hold my hype for raids.

Anchoku.8142:

Keep in mind all regular skills (except greatsword and shouts) should be available outside of shroud for counterplay.

Scourge might still be very dependant on stacking with a dedicated healer and boon-sharer. I have a hard time imagining a raid slot in Shaman equipment with Curses, Blood Magic, and Scourge.

Celestial would also be a decent stat for Scourge, if you build around it with runes and food, you can still hit 1500 condi damage no worries with 26k health and 650 Healing Power. Plus the other stats like 1700 power, 2600 armor and 35% crit, thrown in for good measure.

To me damage reduction via barrier while beign capable to use utility it’s better than face tanking.

I think about scourge like a mesmer (shade mechanic f1 – f5) with barriers instead of blocks and blur.

I certainly miss my shroud when running scourge but I’ll try to learn the new class.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Anchoku.8142:

Keep in mind all regular skills (except greatsword and shouts) should be available outside of shroud for counterplay.

Scourge might still be very dependant on stacking with a dedicated healer and boon-sharer. I have a hard time imagining a raid slot in Shaman equipment with Curses, Blood Magic, and Scourge.

Celestial would also be a decent stat for Scourge, if you build around it with runes and food, you can still hit 1500 condi damage no worries with 26k health and 650 Healing Power. Plus the other stats like 1700 power, 2600 armor and 35% crit, thrown in for good measure.

Plz keep cele decent but not great
I don’t want to craft armor that takes literally a month at minimum to craft