Guild Wars 2

I’m somewhat amazed at how many posts I’ve seen from necros complaining about the patch not helping them.

Personally, I noticed necros get significantly more dangerous in sPvP after the patch. Started playing one in sPvP for the first time after the patch, and so far I’ve won every game I’ve played on it. Small sample size, I must admit, but I feel powerful enough in the games that I do feel that the strength of the build and my use of it was a factor rather than just getting good teams by the luck of the draw.

Engineer, on the other hand, I’ve practically retired, although I think that’s less a factor of them not having viable builds and more that I don’t enjoy them.

Falcon.8713:

Teratus.2859:

GreyWraith.8394:

-snip, post length troubles-

-snip, more post length troubles-

Thanks for typing everything out when I was too lazy to.
+ 50% weakness uptime
+ Awesome boon removal
+ Zerker Wellomancers are perfect for downstate target cleaving

To add onto this, necros doing ‘low damage’ seems a bit iffy to me (even though I do trust Death n Taxes to know their stuff), considering a few things, and especially if we consider Hundred Blades as the benchmark. Though, I can understand this if we’re talking about condition application as well as raw damage, where as a Necro it’s difficult to have both. But still, there’s a couple things to consider (and I REALLY hope I’m not overstepping my bounds here, so take this with a grain of salt).

I’m purely speaking in a pve setting, also.

According to the Wiki, Hundred Blades does 1,571 with a 4.21 efficiency with power scaling. But this is over the course of a 3 second channel and 8 hits with the final .5 second being a 410 plus 1.1p hit, for a total of 1,981 + 5.31p in raw damage over 3.5 seconds every 8 seconds. That’s roughly 248 + 0.67p per second due to using 100B, which is p.great burst. There’s a slump in damage when including Warrior!GS’s other abilities (+ 56/0.15p from Arcing Smash, 39.7/0.11p with Rush and it’s cooldown, much less with everything else), but still good damage all around.

Necros (assuming they’re using Death Shroud, but I’ll get into that fallacy later don’t worry) using Life Blast can compare to this. Life blast itself has a ranged component, so it does 246 + 1.0p and 345 + 1.4p when used at close range, with a second cast time. 3 casts equate to 738 + 3.0p and 1036 + 4.2 respectively, falling very short of Hundred Blade’s burst. But doing this over 8 seconds yields higher overall dps, with 1968 + 8.0p at range and 2760 + 11.2p when at the correct range (evening outwith HB at 5 for +600 range and 4 seconds for -600 range), or (still!) 246 + 1.0p and 345 + 1.4p dps. To that end, we can easily hit great numbers consistently, even moreso than the definitive damage dealing class, let alone others.

…That all being said, we neglect our other abilities in DS to do so, and our normal weapon skills (spammy as they are <3) aren’t any different in this regard. Also understanding the lack of cleave for some abilities and our own version of burst coming from utility skills instead (with longer cooldowns to balance out/offset our ahead-of-the-curve dps). While also assuming things like we’ll be close to the enemy to deal dat damage (expectedly, honestly), and if you’re not dealing with trash (which dies fast and supplants Burst dps over Sustained dps), lack of support aside from the weakness stuff, lack of good condition application, weird trait choices (Death Perception or Dhuumfire? Signet reduction/party support or Close to Death/the 20% under 50% damage buff thinger? Transfusions, better wells, or party condi removal? You have to choose between these and that’s a huge hindrance), etc etc etc. This makes our playstyle alien to others, which is why you get people saying such things, we’re not the roller coaster of burst like other classes.

In short, we have our fair share of problems in pve but damage isn’t one of them. Parity of Burst damage and team support, and people not playing the necro as a melee class like it very much is? Those, now…

Falcon.8713:

Teratus.2859:

GreyWraith.8394:

Ah, the old “people who disagree with me should L2P” argument. Sloppy thinking.

The fact that necros can be fun and situationally powerful does not alter the fact that the class has serious design flaws.

All classes have their strengths and weaknesses hence the point of even having different classes in a mmo

learning to play a class is the most basic of things you need to learn how to do

you can’t just slap zerker stats on everything and start hitting things and totaling up the dps then define a whole class by that..

No.. Necros don’t do as much raw DPS as say a Warrior with HB.. and they are not ment to.. if they did then what would even be the point of them even being different classes with different playstyles and traits..

Necros have issues.. sure every class does but people who say they have no point, purpose or use in the game are severely ignorant

and most of the time regardless of build the Necro will be the last one standing because of death shrowd

Necro is the only class that can epidemic conditions
Necro is the only class that can counter Bleed out
Necro is the only class that can Pull downed players out of AOE to revive them
Necro is the only class that can give party wide Life Siphon
Necros have a lot of access to control skills such as fear, cripple, chill, imobalize, poison.. they even have teleport and easier access to stun breakers now
Necros slow condi stacking has been countered through new reworked corruption mechanics
Necros have access to plenty of condition manipulation such as purging the party of conditions and corrupting enemy boons into conditions
and if im not mistaken Necros also have the most access to Condition transfer as well
and I know for a fact that Necros can also now self buff and sustain 25 stacks of might..

So yeah.. when people rip on Necros as a useless class.. I beg to differ and frankly all of the arguments I see are more often than not based on peoples lacking knowledge or skill playing the class..
some people just want the Necro to be something else.. something similar to thier playstyle they like to play with their warriors and their thieves etc..
doesnt work that way and the Necro is its own thing with its own strengths and I for one love it for what it is and how it works

Thanks for typing everything out when I was too lazy to.
+ 50% weakness uptime
+ Awesome boon removal
+ Zerker Wellomancers are perfect for downstate target cleaving

Touché u guys! ppl who say necro is useless are just dumb and need to stop looking at metta builds and learn to play the game kitten . im not saying thouse builds arent good, im saying that if u dont understand your class, how can u use effectivly thouse builds? about dps, most part of the community are delusional ellitist, youtubers like nemesis and brazil tried to educate ppl about this. i started playin warr, but now he only mines my homeinstance, while my necro is rekkting stuff.

It doesn’t matter how many things you guys posts about what a necro can do. Lack of mobility is the downfall of any class. Given any two classes with equally competent players, the most mobile class will usually win. Doesn’t matter which game you play the one rule “Speed is life” always applies. Instead of giving the necro mobility which Anet has repeatedly stated is against the design of the class, I would like to see some sort of skill that would debuff a class for a set amount of time which would make all movement skills fail. In essence, force a class to stand and fight without repeatedly disengaging until the necro makes a mistake. Spectral grasp just doesn’t cut it. Until we start seeing more necro’s in the big tournaments then you should consider the class subpar. I still main a necro in the end because I am still the hopeless optimist.

Also, I would kind of keep an open mind in the expansion transition period. In every mmo I’ve ever played it’s been a period where balance doesn’t exist in the usual meaning of the word. Of course things can still end up needing fixes even after things settle but… yes. I just think it’d take a miracle for any devs to get it right on the first try after substantial new class content.

For me, I really love the framework they’re setting up for Necro. I don’t pvp enough to give any meaningful balance input, but the feels are there for me. Numbers… we’ll see, they’re the easiest to change about a class.

Rhizo.5089:

It doesn’t matter how many things you guys posts about what a necro can do. Lack of mobility is the downfall of any class. Given any two classes with equally competent players, the most mobile class will usually win. Doesn’t matter which game you play the one rule “Speed is life” always applies. Instead of giving the necro mobility which Anet has repeatedly stated is against the design of the class, I would like to see some sort of skill that would debuff a class for a set amount of time which would make all movement skills fail. In essence, force a class to stand and fight without repeatedly disengaging until the necro makes a mistake. Spectral grasp just doesn’t cut it. Until we start seeing more necro’s in the big tournaments then you should consider the class subpar. I still main a necro in the end because I am still the hopeless optimist.

Pretty much what he says. I Prefer playing big tanky set ups in most games I play, usually really slow, but have a lot of hp/armor and can control a zone and limit others mobility, and deal decent damage, not top tier, but enough to make most glass cannon types back off or die.

Necro, while immobile, doesn’t do this. It doesn’t really have any control, and for all its lack of mobility, it has hardly ANY anti-mobility skills, especially since chill and cripple got the axe taken to them with the movement skill changes. Even thenZ we still don’t have stability, and as far as mobility we are dead last with two of the worst “teleports” in the game, requiring set up and special conditions. We also didn’t have sustain until the last patch either, but that took what, three years to fix?

I won’t start on team support, as I don’t think we really should have that much. But that DOESN’T mean we shouldn’t have access to projectile destruction and other forms of defenses hat compliment our slow nature.

I do love my necro and showing people what it can do when you have even a slight understanding of the class mechanics, but we still need some help. Really, just some, that’s all it would take.

Yes I do in all game modes. To me, it doesn’t really matter if they have the highest DPS or not. I just like the skills and the motif they have.

I still do and main a necro. I play only wvw and that´s the only game mode where necros are kind of viable. At least Anet did not manage to break that yet. Tried pvp but there are much more useful classes there so i stopped after a few months.

I don´t like what they call meta (i call it fotm) gameplay. With every patch you are forced to play the class which Anet buffed to oblivion and after 6 months chances are you have to drop it because of nerfs.

I play for fun and have mained a necro almost since the start (was a ranger first). I made a few tweaks to my build post patch and now my necro seems tougher than ever. Occasionally I run another char but I quickly swap back to my necro.

I only play pve and mainly run dungeons with guildies or pugs. I never speedrun and when running with guildies we don’t stack either, my necro works well for me in both cases.

I fell in love with MM Necro back in GW1. Necromancer in general was the sole reason why I got the game and quickly learned the ways of Minion Mastering. MM was the sole reason for why I got GW2.

I have had regrets for understandable reasons but every now and then I come back to the game… It keeps changing and it is very much fun to me in the end. Despite some amazing flaws that MMs have. There is much more to the game though that balances it out.

I don’t play games to be optimal, I play games to have fun, and Necro is the most fun class to play for me, simple as that.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Rhizo.5089:

It doesn’t matter how many things you guys posts about what a necro can do. Lack of mobility is the downfall of any class. Given any two classes with equally competent players, the most mobile class will usually win. Doesn’t matter which game you play the one rule “Speed is life” always applies. Instead of giving the necro mobility which Anet has repeatedly stated is against the design of the class, I would like to see some sort of skill that would debuff a class for a set amount of time which would make all movement skills fail. In essence, force a class to stand and fight without repeatedly disengaging until the necro makes a mistake. Spectral grasp just doesn’t cut it. Until we start seeing more necro’s in the big tournaments then you should consider the class subpar. I still main a necro in the end because I am still the hopeless optimist.

Pretty much what he says. I Prefer playing big tanky set ups in most games I play, usually really slow, but have a lot of hp/armor and can control a zone and limit others mobility, and deal decent damage, not top tier, but enough to make most glass cannon types back off or die.

Necro, while immobile, doesn’t do this. It doesn’t really have any control, and for all its lack of mobility, it has hardly ANY anti-mobility skills, especially since chill and cripple got the axe taken to them with the movement skill changes. Even thenZ we still don’t have stability, and as far as mobility we are dead last with two of the worst “teleports” in the game, requiring set up and special conditions. We also didn’t have sustain until the last patch either, but that took what, three years to fix?

I won’t start on team support, as I don’t think we really should have that much. But that DOESN’T mean we shouldn’t have access to projectile destruction and other forms of defenses hat compliment our slow nature.

I do love my necro and showing people what it can do when you have even a slight understanding of the class mechanics, but we still need some help. Really, just some, that’s all it would take.

dude u lost all credibility to me when u said we dont have any control. rlly? “teleports that need brains to execute” – omg no thats crap! can u see what u ppl are saying and want of this class? stick whit warr for brainless play
i wont lie, necros have some problems and need to get fixed, but most of reasons i see on this forum are just bullkitten and l2p issues

Tiasguitas.4163:

Considering you just start out trying to insult me, followed with your only arguement being L2P, I can safely assume arguing with you would add nothing to this discussion, nor broaden my understanding of the necromancer, I will not be replying to your further comments.

leman.7682:

It’s because necro’s design is largely incompatibile with the dynamics of the game’s combat system. I’m beginning to understand that most of the balance suggestions are pointless because they are never going to fix that problem and a full rework of some weapons/mechanics is needed.

No need for drastic things,just make necro role as juggernaut-one that ppl benefit be around him and have stability kitten