Guild Wars 2

If you need to learn how to fight with 100% LF then you need to learn how to play Necro. There is no reason to start a duel with 100% LF, if those are the kinds of “duels” you want you might as well roam and kill underlevels.

Aktium.9506:

moi.4398:

When you are talking about duel you are talking about something who is not in guild wars 2 . There is no duel game mode in this game . 1v1 happens , not " duel " . Duel means nothing in this game .

Why does it have to be an official game mode to matter? GvG’s and dungeon speedruns aren’t official ways to play the game either but they still matter.

Not in the eyes of Anet bro . I don’t want you to think that " I don’t care about thoses " or anything . I like all the things you listed . But i think GvG and speedruns are far more popular than duels .

Bhawb.7408:

If you need to learn how to fight with 100% LF then you need to learn how to play Necro. There is no reason to start a duel with 100% LF, if those are the kinds of “duels” you want you might as well roam and kill underlevels.

Do you realise when I said " If you want to get better you have to duel a necro in full life force " the necro is not supposed to be you right . My english may be terrible but I never said " If you want to get better AS a necro you have to fight with full life force "

I said also " on the necro side , it’s not because i said you should start with as much as you can and play to win that I don’t think you must not learn how to fight with low or any life force " .
Geez do you even read ?

If it’s because of english mistakes then I apologize , but wow , you guys really don’t get it

If you have to go by rules what makes them fair especially different rules made by every player? Necro is a very special case with LF sure a 100% is not required but that amount is always decided by your foe not you it’s just feels wrong especially with game design I stand by response made before V

Start with how much you want you are here to duel not please others.

Whoever said it doesn’t have be official to be recognized and used GvG that’s a very bad argument GvG is very close to zerg clash it’s just organized, what is duel close to?? Not solo encounters in conquest where you have no restrictions on builds,can escape to decap or delay for another teammate hell you win by making solo encounters 2v1’s, is it close to TDM solo encounters?? Isn’t that closer to roaming??

I’ve been a fan of duels in other games/mmos but here not really I do however share a few duels with people I’ve encountered in WvW with no restrictions necro or not.

I think it would be ridiculously silly to say that a necro cannot have all of their life force before a duel. If this was the intended purpose, necros’ life force would likely drain outside combat or have a lower cap outside combat. Its certainly more fair than a thief who uses shadow refuge before he goes down, then rezzes himself in shadow refuge and continues to attack you.

If they ask you to start at 0LF, ask them to then use all their defensive skills on utilities and the 4-5 weapons, its only fair. If they got a problem with it, they should adapt, just as a person can just walk out of Supply Crate range once dropped.

moi.4398:

Geez do you even read ?

If it’s because of english mistakes then I apologize , but wow , you guys really don’t get it

We’ve read what you said and we understand all of it. It’s just that you’re not making sense so we called you out on it. There’s no reason to get so agitated about it.

moi.4398:

Bhawb.7408:

If you need to learn how to fight with 100% LF then you need to learn how to play Necro. There is no reason to start a duel with 100% LF, if those are the kinds of “duels” you want you might as well roam and kill underlevels.

Do you realise when I said " If you want to get better you have to duel a necro in full life force " the necro is not supposed to be you right . My english may be terrible but I never said " If you want to get better AS a necro you have to fight with full life force "

If you want to get better against necros you need to fight good players. There’s no point practicing against a bad necro with full life force.
And once you get a good necro as sparring partner I guarantee you will not win a single fight if they start with 100% lf. So really, what’s the point..?

Also, what you don’t get is that arranged dueling is not just about training but showing your opponent respect and common courtesey. Of course this isn’t something that the game or Anet can control or regulate, but you bow before you start, you don’t stomp (in WvW), you chat and give feedback… there are a lot of things that you just do because you’re a decent human being. And one of those things is: you give your opponent a fair chance, that includes lowering your life force to a reasonable amount.

moi.4398:

Aktium.9506:

Why does it have to be an official game mode to matter? GvG’s and dungeon speedruns aren’t official ways to play the game either but they still matter.

Not in the eyes of Anet bro . I don’t want you to think that " I don’t care about thoses " or anything . I like all the things you listed . But i think GvG and speedruns are far more popular than duels .

There are a million things in this game that people do without there being a seperate game mode for it.
Out of the three things you’ve mentioned I’d argue that dungeon speed runs are done the most simply because the PvE population is a lot higher than in WvW and PvP. And I’m very sure there’s a ton more dueling than GvGs because 20 vs 20 is a lot more difficult to organize than casually dropping by the Obsidian Sanctum at any time you want.

Speaking of which, the Obsidian Sanctum arena wasn’t always in the game.
GvGs and duels used to take place behind the windmills in the south of borderland maps. And originally OS was part of Eternal Battlegrounds.
After Anet patched in the arena they seperated the Obsidian Sanctum from Eternal Battlegrounds, gave it its own access via the WvW UI, and they even removed the Bloodlust borderland buffs’ affect on the OS map.
So yeah, there’s no “official” game mode, probably because they have different priorities, but the addition of the OS arena with its own waypoint and removed bloodlust stacks was solely done to give players a space to duke it out.

LF restrictions and banned traits are KOTH’s rules . The thread is about WvW . I don’t know for you butas far I know there is no official rules in WvW . People are running PU , SA and go on all over the place . The only thing i remember so far is that you have to bow . I allways keep my life force at 25/30% for duel because I’ve got the reflex now .
But I will not throw the rock to someone who starts with 100% . There is no rules against that .
You guys keep talking about what is fair or not when I simply don’t talk about this . Yes I know and i think 100% is faceroll . But nothing in the game block you for doing that . Especially in WvW . If the game allow you to do it , if you don’t want to, it’s your choice
.
I simply stated " play to win " then everyone came with " the point of dueling " and unspoken rules . Well theses are your rules . Maybe you said I am not making sense because I respect thoses rules, apply them to myself , then critizise them ?
I bow before duel , I start every duel with 25% lf , I don’t use +120 cd elites and don’t use “banned” traits . But if someone dot it , I will not try to stop him . He just plays the game and use the game’s mechanics .

OS standard is 50%, lots of times necros ask me before dules how much LF do i want them to strat with – like a difficulty level.

moi.4398:

Yes I know and i think 100% is faceroll . But nothing in the game block you for doing that

Except your opponent if they don’t want to fight you with full life force.

moi.4398:

I simply stated " play to win " then everyone came with " the point of dueling "

When you have an arranged duel there are no mission objectives or capture points at stake. Just 2 people who agree to fight.
What if one of them is a mesmer and defeats the other player with moa morph? Sure, in pvp that’s a legit kill, but there really is no point in using that skill in a duel. The same applies to starting with 100% lf as necro. You can do it, but it’s pointless.

Roe.3679:

I start duels at 50%. If someone wants to duel with me having 0 life force than I refuse, because its a big advantage for whoever I’m fighting.

My opinion may not be popular or accepted but to me it’s like you said, fighting without my class mechanic and main defense.

what thats not fair is it tho?

If anyone ever loses to a necro with zero LF they really are not good.

Start at whatever you want, when you start facing good players you need LF to have a chance. This is very true for condi necros…. for power necros because they can actually gain LF starting at 100% is kind of cheap.

flow.6043:

Except your opponent if they don’t want to fight you with full life force.

No it don’t block you, he can just ask for it .

Seems like there is so much contention as to what LF a necro should start with.

I asked the mesmers too.
Specifically Chaos Archangel replied since he will be dueling Holl.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Prepare-to-get-Reaped/page/2#post5105874

his point was it doesn’t matter if I read it right.

So if your opponents already feel it doesn’t matter what LF the necro starts with, personally I think we shouldn’t handicap ourselves.

DS is bugged. life force should regenerate when you are out of combat.

To me, a person demanding 100% LF is no different than a person demanding 0% LF. Neither seem to understand how influential it is with respect to having a good fight.

If you want to start at 100% LF, don’t be surprised if someone refuses to duel. They feel the same as the Necro does when the Necro is asked to duel at 0% LF.

I usually go between 20% and 50%, like most everyone else in a duel. If I’m roaming, it’s 100%.

but again i would like to say, why handicap ourselves when our opponent thinks it doesn’t matter?

Chaos Archangel by his post is fully prepared to take on Holl at 100% LF.

In response to the question of the thread, I would have to say yes. (IMHO) playing as a necro, we don’t wear heavy armor, can’t really block or reflect incoming damage, so our LF is how we compensate for that. i try and start every fight with as much as possible. Don’t let others put you down for using the skills you have. I don’t ask others to handicap themselves before a duel, and I expect them to return the gesture. It’s like asking a thief “please don’t stealth during our fight”. Having full LF doesn’t guarantee a win. I have been beaten by truly great players who were able to down me despite the amount of LF I had in the tank. Other players should just step up their game.

LittleHorn.6728:

In response to the question of the thread, I would have to say yes. (IMHO) playing as a necro, we don’t wear heavy armor, can’t really block or reflect incoming damage, so our LF is how we compensate for that. i try and start every fight with as much as possible. Don’t let others put you down for using the skills you have. I don’t ask others to handicap themselves before a duel, and I expect them to return the gesture. It’s like asking a thief “please don’t stealth during our fight”. Having full LF doesn’t guarantee a win. I have been beaten by truly great players who were able to down me despite the amount of LF I had in the tank. Other players should just step up their game.

This is true. Good players can defeat a full LF necro.

I thought I would just bring some points mentioned by others in the WvW thread here

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/DUSK-WvW-Necro-1vs1/first#post5111273

punahou.3986:
and…… since when is dueling PVP?
PVP is the unaltered encounter between 2+ opposing forces that takes a chance meeting and tries to turn the tide to gain an advantage or victory.
Some people you encounter may outgear you— are you going to ask them to remove their gear?

I think both your points are very valid.
If I use exotic only, is my opponent going to drop his ascended gear and buy exotic? or should we just call off the fight? or will he say sorry but if you don’t got gold to buy ascended that is your problem?
also another good point you brought up is necros LF is his mitigation tool! we don’t have blocks invul blink stealth etc etc because we were given a 2nd health bar. you want a necro to start with 10% of it? 20%? 50%? why don’t a thief be allowed to enter stealth 3 times in a fight max? or a guardian can only use his F1 skill once? etc etc
and the necros who say start with reduced LF are probably power necros who have good access to LF regain abilities. if you play a condi necro you will know how hard it is to regain LF!

EremiteAngel.9765:

This is true. Good players can defeat a full LF necro.

*a bad full LF necro.
Equal skill, no chance.

flow.6043:

EremiteAngel.9765:

This is true. Good players can defeat a full LF necro.

*a bad full LF necro.
Equal skill, no chance.

Add spec to that and see the results change.

Sagat.3285:

flow.6043:

EremiteAngel.9765:

This is true. Good players can defeat a full LF necro.

*a bad full LF necro.
Equal skill, no chance.

Add spec to that and see the results change.

I agree.

if we extend this to HOT’s spec Reaper Shroud, I think not many Reapers if any will agree with starting with reduced LF like 50% or 25% LF.

Because chances are many RS builds will center around having LF and staying in it. Especially against long range kiters, imagine you start with 25% LF you will just get eaten.

coming back to the present, it is the same. The reason why some necros say we should start with reduced LF is because any or all of the below:

1) their build don’t depend heavily on LF to fight
2) their build can build LF decently/easily

Now there are necro builds out there that have no/little ability to build LF and yet also depends on having LF to fight. To ask these builds to start with reduced LF is like a heavy penalty.

I don’t think we should ask these necros to incorporate some form of LF regen abilities because simply they don’t need it as long as they start with full LF. Having a full LF is part of their build strategy.

I think starting with 0% is fair. It’s the neutral state of your class. You must build up life force in order to use it. Imagine a warrior, they nerfed it that way he has 0 adrenaline if OOC, so I assume the same should be with the necro: build first up, then use it. I don’t think it’s fair to have a full life force bar at the beginning of a fight. Same with a mesmer: he must build up the illusions and it’s even not possible if you don’t have a target.

ProtoGunner.4953:

I think starting with 0% is fair. It’s the neutral state of your class. You must build up life force in order to use it. Imagine a warrior, they nerfed it that way he has 0 adrenaline if OOC, so I assume the same should be with the necro: build first up, then use it. I don’t think it’s fair to have a full life force bar at the beginning of a fight. Same with a mesmer: he must build up the illusions and it’s even not possible if you don’t have a target.

The difference between us, a warrior, and a mesmer though is that adrenaline and clones can be built up fairly quickly, adrenaline being gained just passively and clones are on a lot of mesmer skills. Life force on the other hand requires very specific skills that grant not that much life force. The only ones that do are utilities spectral grasp, armor and walk, and armor and walk require you to get hit.

In addition, even an empty warrior still can defend himself using endure pain, berserker stance, and balanced stance, as well as have healing signet healing him for about 400 go a tick. Mesmer has access to a healthy amount of teleports and stealthed to reposition themselves while they produce more illusions. We have….fear…and weakness. And spectral armor. Point is, clones and adrenaline are more tied to a warrior and mesmer’s offense, while deathshroud is mainly our defense.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Sagat.3285:

Add spec to that and see the results change.

I agree.

if we extend this to HOT’s spec Reaper Shroud, I think not many Reapers if any will agree with starting with reduced LF like 50% or 25% LF.

It’s way too early to make this assumption.

ProtoGunner.4953:

I think starting with 0% is fair. It’s the neutral state of your class.

0% life force is our natural state?
Even if you didn’t say “your class”, you just completely outed yourself as someone who’s never played necro before.

Just fyi, since lf doesn’t degenerate out of Death Shroud there is no natural state.
Should there be one? Maybe yes, but it should at least be 20%.