Guild Wars 2

I apologize for my sensational title. But I’m really curious and itching to make a necro but do have some concerns of which I’d hope you kind people of this forum will help adress Would you say that the anti-necro sentiment that has been witnessed in dungeons is disappearing? And how does necro perform in fractals? Some regard the class as inferior is there a valid reasoning behind this? Ooooo and for those who played reaper during beta, did it kitten?!!

Reaper is awesomesauce. It was for the most part weak in beta, but lots of changes were made to buff it.

I don’t see necro hate in dungeons or fractals for a long time actually. I only see Ranger hate.

Necro is a solid class, not the best, but it’s been getting a lot of attention lately and I’d jump on the bandwagon if I was you

even with people calling reaper weak during the beta. i found it quite solid

sure its slow, its dmg is in slow high alpha hits.
and the pull was a bit bugged

but the promise it had, and the playstyle was insanely fun.

however, for dungeons and fractals….beware summoning minions. alot of groups kick you for summon minions as minion master is still considered…well crap.

this is mostly due to how easily they die in PvE (yes even with the +71% hp). against a boss its just insta kill.

and in PvP i’ve had several parties who see me summon my minions and then the party leaves the pvp match(logg out) and leave me alone because “fail build alert”

at this point….even if they do make minions viable, the community’s opinion of them will make it hard for people to accept the build.

and thats really dissapointing for me….as i use a vamperic minion build (bone minions, flesh golem, and 2 physical dmg wells)
the build works very well(its a tank build designed for high dmg without condition or critical dmg. the loss of dmg from critical and conditions is made up for through the vamperic bonus dmg/heals. and the high dmg of the minions.

its allowed me to go through a fractal run with a group of new people(4 of us total. so we down 1 person. and one of the 4 is a lv 67. only i have done fractals out of the group before)

hopefuly reaper will make people forget about minion master’s bad reputation…..
or they could make minion management easier(auto summon, auto explode on death, etc)

Reaper, especially greatsword and shouts, was/were undertuned in the bwe but it seems Anet has taken our feedback seriously and most of the complaints were addressed. So while we dont really know how good the reaper will be, the changes robert gee talked about in the tread were in my opinion rather promising.

Ahh and to the minionmaster post. Even if mms ever become viable (some believe mm is is already viable with the recent ai improvements), they would still be hated in pvp like turrent engi was when it was kinda viable.

Muchacho.2390:

Reaper, especially greatsword and shouts, was/were undertuned in the bwe but it seems Anet has taken our feedback seriously and most of the complaints were addressed. So while we dont really know how good the reaper will be, the changes robert gee talked about in the tread were in my opinion rather promising.

Ahh and to the minionmaster post. Even if mms ever become viable (some believe mm is is already viable with the recent ai improvements), they would still be hated in pvp like turrent engi was when it was kinda viable.

true true

though i think most of the turret hate was from stationary stuff

engi elite will hopefully have drone turrets. so who knows =D

actually if it does…i might have to make an engi…..i just wish the 1 skill let me aim down the gun. not fire from the hip T.T i’m ok with the 2-5 skills…but that 1 skill animation….bleeeeeh

It is safe. You will not be harmed.

There really isn’t near as much anti-necro sentiment as people would have you believe, necros do FINE in dungeons, me and my bud regularly duo with no problems, I draw all the aggro while he goes to town with his hundred blades on warrior. The only time I need to switch out is when we’re doing a boss that has a sort of time limit, like the last boss in the inquest path," for Arah, and as for Lupi, I’ve always had a hard time with him on my necro because of his projectile attack, but then my friend just grabs his guardian and we cheese it.

The worst thing we have for us right now is the fact we have no group utility, Ele had ice bow which is just broken, and can pre-stack 25 might, thief and Mesmer have stealth, so your party can just skip 90% of the mobs in the dungeon, as well as some bosses. Warriors have phalanx strength, and that with the GS trait and strength runes lets them just output ridiculous amounts of might for a party, guardians have AoE stability and cleansing, and lots of boons, engis can really fill any role the party needs, and rangers are sorta with us on the low list.

And reaper won’t fix these problems, these are foundational problems, the devs sorta took the whole, selfish class design concept too far and ended up hindering us as well. We don’t have that many blast finishers, nor do we have any projectile destruction/reflection, which is a bit weird for a zone control Profession.

But, we do have a lot of weakness ouput, which I’m just finally figuring out is great for bosses and multi hit enemies, and we are rather naturally Tanky with Deathshroud, and with the spite tree, we can stack might like a crazy person, and reaper will do that even better, while providing better sustain and damage output. AND we have been gettin A LoT of attention lately from Mr. Robert Gee, who’s been working hard to fix our concerns and bring our needs to the attention of the balance team. Just look out the Reaper change list in comparison to the other BWE event threads, we’re getting a ton of buffs and fixes, and he even mentions scepter and axe buffs for the next BALANCE patch, and minions are FInALLY useful now.

So to answer your question…yeah make a necro, we’re going through a big time of change now, and who knows where we’ll be by the end of it.

Honestly, there is no anti-necro sentiment in dungeons, not unless you’re planning to do speed runs. I run dungeons on my necro all the time and nobody says anything negative. Just avoid LFGs that say “zerker only,” “ping equipment,” “speed run,” or the ilk and you’ll be fine. Frankly, I find that level of obsessive second-crunching to be really offputting and avoid those groups even when I’m playing one of my “meta” alts.

The majority of people only care that you play with common sense and pay attention to chat. It’s really easy to find perfectly good dungeon groups with 2 Necros, 2 Rangers, and an Engineer.

I never got kicked of any dungeon party as Necromancer. Just be on meta and you’ll be fine, specially for pugs.
And Reaper is awesome! -

well i did a full dungeon run today and got necrophobic comments 2 times but that was an exceptional case. it still happens regularly but far less than people think. i was never really kicked without a reason on necro but sometimes for pretty dumb reasons ;D. as long as u dont put your wells down right before a fire field its fine and most of the time u have phalanx for might stacking anyways ^^

Necromancer’s no-skip, no-leap design still punishes traditional dungeons but non-speed-runs are more than fine. Transfusion and Necromancer’s tanky design help PUGs

I only do PUGs and have experienced a wide variety of reactions. Trying minions, Tuesday, in TA, of all places, the comment I received was, “More than 10k AP, sweet!” I asked if MM was OK and ppl were just exited an oldster was there. Tanked for everything with dagger/focus on zerker/scholar while watching minions die in putrid explosions.

Will do easy fractals on Mm, tomorrow.

If your concern is about the viability of Necro – GO FOR IT. Necros are efficient enough for any content of this game and its personnaly my main and I enjoy to play it more than any other class.

If you’re the type of player that go for the “rank and rank only” well… its probably better for you to go for something else. The necro lack a lot of things to be “meta”.

As for the “anti necro” feeling… still here but there is a lot of “anti-meta players” also. If you make a “all welcome lfg” you’ll have no problem finding a party. But dungeon can be done wearing a blindfold whatever your class/specialization, pvp depend mostly on your personnal skill (some pro necro), and in wvw you’ll get hella fun.

Reaper will probably fix some issues, and was very easy to move around in VB during the beta (event, and just going for a trip). As for the incomming “hard content” i bet we’ll fit just right in some way.

I guess what i try to say is, if you like the necro, go for it, do it, enjoy it and if people are not happy with that … well it’s your char so they just have to deal with it.

in my experience if you play necro and are looking for speedruns, only around 10% pugs won’t kick you from party and 95% time these pugs are awfully bad at the game

as for friends, they will only invite you if they absolutely need to fill a spot and they have nobody else to inv

you can also create your own lfg but those 4 ppl that join might kick you and refresh the lfg, because obviously, nobody reads lfg descriptions

Sublimatio.6981:

in my experience if you play necro and are looking for speedruns, only around 10% pugs won’t kick you from party and 95% time these pugs are awfully bad at the game

as for friends, they will only invite you if they absolutely need to fill a spot and they have nobody else to inv

you can also create your own lfg but those 4 ppl that join might kick you and refresh the lfg, because obviously, nobody reads lfg descriptions

Ok, this is a wild exaggeration. It bears no resemblance to reality. Maybe all those groups kicked you because you’re relentlessly negative.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Sublimatio.6981:

in my experience if you play necro and are looking for speedruns, only around 10% pugs won’t kick you from party and 95% time these pugs are awfully bad at the game

as for friends, they will only invite you if they absolutely need to fill a spot and they have nobody else to inv

you can also create your own lfg but those 4 ppl that join might kick you and refresh the lfg, because obviously, nobody reads lfg descriptions

Ok, this is a wild exaggeration. It bears no resemblance to reality. Maybe all those groups kicked you because you’re relentlessly negative.

Half the time when I view the LFG panel for dungeons I see a group with ‘No Necro’ in the title. So while the numbers may not match your experience or my own, lets at least not lie to the OP and pretend the problems that lead to this ‘No Necro’ attitude aren’t legitimate.

The Necro legitimately has no valuable group utility.
The Necro legitimately has sub par DPS.
The Reaper legitimately was severely undertuned and no one knows if the stated changes will be enough.

Rumor has it the game will be made free in the near future. Leveling in this game takes less than a week. Give the class a shot as the only thing that matters in the long run is if you enjoy playing it.

Atherakhia.4086:

The Necro legitimately has no valuable group utility.
The Necro legitimately has sub par DPS.
The Reaper legitimately was severely undertuned and no one knows if the stated changes will be enough.

How can a class stay that bad for 3 years without anyone noticing to the point where they were equally as bad in the beta for the new game.

I havn’t even see cashgrab korean F2P developers do something that lazy.

Substatic.6958:

Atherakhia.4086:

The Necro legitimately has no valuable group utility.
The Necro legitimately has sub par DPS.
The Reaper legitimately was severely undertuned and no one knows if the stated changes will be enough.

How can a class stay that bad for 3 years.

I havn’t even see cashgrab korean F2P developers do something that lazy.

Anet are very, VERY, stubborn in their design philosophy. That plus, Necros in GW1 were apparently ridiculously great (think elementalist) and in the beta, we were very hard to kill with our DS. They’re legitemently afraid of overtuning us with every change that it wasn’t until the spec patch did the finally let life siphons work in DS, because they thought it’d give us too much sustain and make us unkillable.

I keep saying this, they are treating our DS like a second healthbar like it’s a boss in final fantasy or something, but what DS should be is our other healthbar, letting us swap out one while the other refills, and allowing our offense to be our defense, and reaper is finally going to reward us for going into the thick of battle, least that’s the way it is looking.

There is one big positive though with waiting for HoT and the elite specialization a and that is that they’re taking a good hard look at all the professions, and right now we’ve been having great communication with Mr. Robert and he’s working to help bring us up to par. A lot of thing s are going to change between now and when HoT comes out, and even more once HoT gets here. Should be interesting to say the least, specially with the impending downfall of Ele.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Ok, this is a wild exaggeration. It bears no resemblance to reality. Maybe all those groups kicked you because you’re relentlessly negative.

please note that i only expressed my own experience and it doesn’t have to match yours.
accusing me of negativity is something illogical as we’ve never played together before, therefore you can’t judge why somebody kicked me. basically whenever i join a group i get votekicked without really any word and no those groups didn’t demand any particular class in their lfg

Atherakhia.4086:

Half the time when I view the LFG panel for dungeons I see a group with ‘No Necro’ in the title.

I have literally never seen that. I’ve been dungeoning a lot, especially over the past few days, and not only have I seen no “no Necro” lfgs but most of my groups have had a Necro (not me – I’ve been testing out an Engi build) and they’ve all been really smooth runs.

Dungeons aren’t actually very difficult and running the same path over and over again isn’t all that ideal anyway, so most people don’t care about putting together an optimal party. I will freely acknowledge that there’s SOME necrophobia, and I’ll even acknowledge that it’s warranted to a degree, but it’s simply not a barrier to dungeoning. It’s just a small speed bump on a 25 mph street: maybe you’d prefer not to hit a speed bump, but you’re not going to plan your route just to avoid it.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Honestly, there is no anti-necro sentiment in dungeons, not unless you’re planning to do speed runs. I run dungeons on my necro all the time and nobody says anything negative. Just avoid LFGs that say “zerker only,” “ping equipment,” “speed run,” or the ilk and you’ll be fine. Frankly, I find that level of obsessive second-crunching to be really offputting and avoid those groups even when I’m playing one of my “meta” alts.

The majority of people only care that you play with common sense and pay attention to chat. It’s really easy to find perfectly good dungeon groups with 2 Necros, 2 Rangers, and an Engineer.

Funny, I just joined a “zerkers of the mist” LFG (from some kittenty fractal guild called “Zerkers of the Mist”) fractal 50 group, which asked pinging for gear, and I pinged all my FULL ASCENDED Zojja (berserker) gear, with +% damage sigils and full scholar rune set included.

“We don’t need a necro. Can you bring something else?”

“I can bring a ranger.”

“>>….”

And that’s when I left. I’m not going to spend 3 years playing only elementalist/guardian/warrior/thief.

I don’t have any other MMO, neither Wildstar or WoW, where people are telling you they don’t want your fully and properly geared class, except this game and its horrible dungeon community.

Sublimatio.6981:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Ok, this is a wild exaggeration. It bears no resemblance to reality. Maybe all those groups kicked you because you’re relentlessly negative.

please note that i only expressed my own experience and it doesn’t have to match yours.
accusing me of negativity is something illogical as we’ve never played together before, therefore you can’t judge why somebody kicked me. basically whenever i join a group i get votekicked without really any word and no those groups didn’t demand any particular class in their lfg

Adding to this, it’s basically the same for ranger. And even, crazily enough, for mesmer in fractal 50 (they just prefer a guardian).

On my necro/ranger it’s not unusual to be vote kicked before I even load into the instance.

And when people say “well, make your own group”…

I tested, several times, making a fractal 50 group starting as a necro or ranger. It could take half an hour or longer to fill.

I test the same on a warrior/ele/guard, it virtually fills up within 5-10 minutes. If there are two competing groups on LFG, the one without necro/ranger and most eles/heavies will get filled first.

What’s worse, as a a necro/ranger, since you’re turned down from competent groups, you go join the only group available to you and you get paired with a burn guardian who says “I don’t care for PS warrior since might is not as important to me as you berserkers”.

And the alternative groups often available have just terrible composition. I’m talking 3 2 thieves, 1 guardian, 1 necro 1 mesmer or even worse 2 mesmersa 1 ranger 1 necro 1guardian. You’re forced into a painful run just for being the wrong class.

Sublimatio.6981:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Ok, this is a wild exaggeration. It bears no resemblance to reality. Maybe all those groups kicked you because you’re relentlessly negative.

please note that i only expressed my own experience and it doesn’t have to match yours.
accusing me of negativity is something illogical as we’ve never played together before, therefore you can’t judge why somebody kicked me. basically whenever i join a group i get votekicked without really any word and no those groups didn’t demand any particular class in their lfg

Just because you label something “in my experience” doesn’t automatically put it beyond criticism. My experience solidly conflicts with yours, so I said so. I’m sure you HAVE been kicked sometimes, and maybe even sometimes because you were on a Necro, but I think you were exaggerating the frequency by an order of magnitude.

As for negativity, maybe you’re perfectly nice and positive in game, but from your post, you seem very negative. To be fair, negativity seems to be endemic to the forums. Most people are here not because they want to chat about the game but because they want to complain. They get stuck spinning their wheels and focusing on the problem spots, all while missing the simple fact that this is actually a very easy game and lagging a bit behind in a few areas (that ANet should absolutely address) does not mean you can’t still have fun and win.

Zenith.7301:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Honestly, there is no anti-necro sentiment in dungeons, not unless you’re planning to do speed runs. I run dungeons on my necro all the time and nobody says anything negative. Just avoid LFGs that say “zerker only,” “ping equipment,” “speed run,” or the ilk and you’ll be fine. Frankly, I find that level of obsessive second-crunching to be really offputting and avoid those groups even when I’m playing one of my “meta” alts.

The majority of people only care that you play with common sense and pay attention to chat. It’s really easy to find perfectly good dungeon groups with 2 Necros, 2 Rangers, and an Engineer.

Funny, I just joined a “zerkers of the mist” LFG (from some kittenty fractal guild called “Zerkers of the Mist”) fractal 50 group, which asked pinging for gear, and I pinged all my FULL ASCENDED Zojja (berserker) gear, with +% damage sigils and full scholar rune set included.

“We don’t need a necro. Can you bring something else?”

“I can bring a ranger.”

“>>….”

And that’s when I left. I’m not going to spend 3 years playing only emenetalist/guardian/warrior/thief.

I don’t have any other MMO, neither Wildstar or WoW, where people are telling you they don’t want your fully and properly geared class, except this game and its horrible dungeon community.

Sublimatio.6981:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Ok, this is a wild exaggeration. It bears no resemblance to reality. Maybe all those groups kicked you because you’re relentlessly negative.

please note that i only expressed my own experience and it doesn’t have to match yours.
accusing me of negativity is something illogical as we’ve never played together before, therefore you can’t judge why somebody kicked me. basically whenever i join a group i get votekicked without really any word and no those groups didn’t demand any particular class in their lfg

Adding to this, it’s basically the same for ranger. And even, crazily enough, for mesmer in fractal 50 (they just prefer a guardian).

On my necro/ranger it’s not unusual to be vote kicked before I even load into the instance.

And when people say “well, make your own group”…

I tested, several times, making a fractal 50 group starting as a necro or ranger. It could take half an hour or longer to fill.

I test the same on a warrior/ele/guard, it virtually fills up within 5-10 minutes.

What’s worse, as a a necro/ranger, since you’re turned down from competent groups, you go join the only group available to you and you get paired with a burn guardian who says “I don’t care for PS warrior since might is not as important to me as you berserkers”.

And the alternative groups often available have just terrible composition. I’m talking 3 2 thieves, 1 guardian, 1 necro 1 mesmer or even worse 2 mesmersa 1 ranger 1 necro 1guardian. You’re forced into a painful run just for being the wrong class.

I mentioned groups that ask for a specific armor type for a reason.

I’m not gonna pretend to know what high-level Fractals are like for Necros because I’m still idly working my way up the scale ladder. And I’m also not gonna say how Arah is for Necros these days since Lupi is apparently bugged in a way that specifically screws up over. But I will say this: all the rest of the PvE content in this game is easy enough that you can throw pretty much whatever builds and professions you want at it and suceed just fine as long as you have a halfway decent idea what you’re doing.

I’ve been in many PUGs with 3, even 4 Necros and had a grand old time busting through dungeon runs. One time, I even had a run with 5 Necros (the only non-necro switched over to his Necro alt because we thought it would be fun). Conversely, I’ve been in PUGs with all meta specs which have wiped repeatedly because they didn’t know how to stack or dodge. Skill matters far more (for 99% of all PvE) than what you’re running.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Zenith.7301:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Honestly, there is no anti-necro sentiment in dungeons, not unless you’re planning to do speed runs. I run dungeons on my necro all the time and nobody says anything negative. Just avoid LFGs that say “zerker only,” “ping equipment,” “speed run,” or the ilk and you’ll be fine. Frankly, I find that level of obsessive second-crunching to be really offputting and avoid those groups even when I’m playing one of my “meta” alts.

The majority of people only care that you play with common sense and pay attention to chat. It’s really easy to find perfectly good dungeon groups with 2 Necros, 2 Rangers, and an Engineer.

Funny, I just joined a “zerkers of the mist” LFG (from some kittenty fractal guild called “Zerkers of the Mist”) fractal 50 group, which asked pinging for gear, and I pinged all my FULL ASCENDED Zojja (berserker) gear, with +% damage sigils and full scholar rune set included.

“We don’t need a necro. Can you bring something else?”

“I can bring a ranger.”

“>>….”

And that’s when I left. I’m not going to spend 3 years playing only emenetalist/guardian/warrior/thief.

I don’t have any other MMO, neither Wildstar or WoW, where people are telling you they don’t want your fully and properly geared class, except this game and its horrible dungeon community.

Sublimatio.6981:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Ok, this is a wild exaggeration. It bears no resemblance to reality. Maybe all those groups kicked you because you’re relentlessly negative.

please note that i only expressed my own experience and it doesn’t have to match yours.
accusing me of negativity is something illogical as we’ve never played together before, therefore you can’t judge why somebody kicked me. basically whenever i join a group i get votekicked without really any word and no those groups didn’t demand any particular class in their lfg

Adding to this, it’s basically the same for ranger. And even, crazily enough, for mesmer in fractal 50 (they just prefer a guardian).

On my necro/ranger it’s not unusual to be vote kicked before I even load into the instance.

And when people say “well, make your own group”…

I tested, several times, making a fractal 50 group starting as a necro or ranger. It could take half an hour or longer to fill.

I test the same on a warrior/ele/guard, it virtually fills up within 5-10 minutes.

What’s worse, as a a necro/ranger, since you’re turned down from competent groups, you go join the only group available to you and you get paired with a burn guardian who says “I don’t care for PS warrior since might is not as important to me as you berserkers”.

And the alternative groups often available have just terrible composition. I’m talking 3 2 thieves, 1 guardian, 1 necro 1 mesmer or even worse 2 mesmersa 1 ranger 1 necro 1guardian. You’re forced into a painful run just for being the wrong class.

I mentioned groups that ask for a specific armor type for a reason.

I’m not gonna pretend to know what high-level Fractals are like for Necros because I’m still idly working my way up the scale ladder. And I’m also not gonna say how Arah is for Necros these days since Lupi is apparently bugged in a way that specifically screws up over. But I will say this: all the rest of the PvE content in this game is easy enough that you can throw pretty much whatever builds and professions you want at it and suceed just fine as long as you have a halfway decent idea what you’re doing.

I’ve been in many PUGs with 3, even 4 Necros and had a grand old time busting through dungeon runs. One time, I even had a run with 5 Necros (the only non-necro switched over to his Necro alt because we thought it would be fun). Conversely, I’ve been in PUGs with all meta specs which have wiped repeatedly because they didn’t know how to stack or dodge. Skill matters far more (for 99% of all PvE) than what you’re running.

And yet endgame PvE for most people involves fractal 50 and the lucrative Arah P1/2 runs, precisely where class discrimination is happening.

And this is bound to get worse with the upcoming raids. There’s nothing gained from reaper that will put them in a better position to be accepted over the meta classes, because even with the buffs to damage you’re not outDPS’ing a staff ele much less contributing to group dps with perma fury, might stacking, water fields, ice bow, earth elemental glyph, or meaningful projectile destruction (reaper #2 is a joke, projectile destruction on a leap is worthless, you need sustained reflection/absorption, not a projectile absorb that lasts under a second).

Substatic.6958:

How can a class stay that bad for 3 years without anyone noticing to the point where they were equally as bad in the beta for the new game.

I havn’t even see cashgrab korean F2P developers do something that lazy.

Arenanet doesn’t give a kitten about balance and that’s a fact. Ele is OP and they nerf Necro. Necro is underpower since launch and has received more nerfs than any OP class. in June patch they removed bleed stack, and even Reaper got a small nerf. Suffer shout does around 800dmg in full Ascended gear and they will nerf that dmg, while Berserker does 1600+ dmg and has 100% crit chance as secondary effect. not to mention the 4600+ crit on elite with 3s stun + 20s cd. dagger Ele that does 1.5-2k++ on each skill plus the dmg from the op burn, no nerf at all . Reaper shouts have cast time as drawback, while Tempest’s don’t. don’t expect that Arenanet will ever balance the game

Necro hate is there for a reason. And you can blame anet for it. I love necros (I main one) but playing other classes has made me understand “why bring a necro (or ranger) when you can bring something better?” They bring nothing to the party that another profession can’t already bring, and do better. Even the Reaper doesn’t seem like it can change this fact.