Guild Wars 2

Lich no longer grants you increased power so things like sigils/chill of death/wells no longer do 200% damage after you enter lich form.
However they are also increasing the dmg coefficients of lich form abilities, how is that going to work out when you add 25 might stacks to the mix ?

For example right now my lich autoattack shows 1900 flat damage on the tooltip and i have 4100 power, after the patch that will still be 1900 but my power will be 2050 (no more buff).
This means that the 700 extra power from 25 might stacks will increase my damage output considerably as the dmg coefficients will be doubled.

Do you think you will end up doing more damage or less damage ?

Any time they increase the power coefficients for a skill, people with enough Power will see a damage boost. Any change in coefficients will have a break even point.

My guess is that Power primary stat builds will see a very significant increase in damage.

I guess I will get even more angry whispers.

It should result in slightly more damage on the auto with higher power. But the duration of lich will only be 20 seconds and you can no longer well bomb. So overall its a nerf. It may be a decent buff in some PvE situations though. Depends on numbers. And we wont know for sure until the patch hits.

spoj.9672:

It should result in slightly more damage on the auto with higher power. But the duration of lich will only be 20 seconds and you can no longer well bomb. So overall its a nerf. It may be a decent buff in some PvE situations though. Depends on numbers. And we wont know for sure until the patch hits.

I view the well bomb as more of a bug fix; the way transforms work it was clearly never intended – just a mechanical design flaw.

Only 20s is technically a nerf but I’ve never used lich for > 20s against other players without being focused and killed so its really only a nerf in PvE.

ya cus necro is sooooooo good at stacking might…

ofc its a nerf

Seiishizo.7162:

ya cus necro is sooooooo good at stacking might…

ofc its a nerf

Don’t forget about teammates. Lich is a group fight cooldown and with Bunker Gaurd + Hambow/Celestial Ele you can easily get buffed to 20 mightstacks for burst.

Necro himself isn’t terrible at building mightstacks, but it takes time or utility/traits.

Well bomb? Nerfed
Sigil, trait procs? Nerfed
Necro might? Lol , still havent reroled warr?
20s duration nerf? Np, u die 10

Sad jokes aside its a nerf, but its good for game. Less oneshot procs, but same constant dmg, which will be easier to balance in future.
Though at best well se a 150s CD, only warior has such attention that they actualy modify skills on a elite.

It’s easy to forget that the main OPness of the lich form was not from the deathly claw itself, but from what it activated alongside itself. 5.6k crit on chill of death (spinal shivers), 2k damage on flame blast added to the 5k damage on the skill itself caused a massive spike that caught the enemy off guard, not to mention the well bomb.
I’m happy that those are getting nerfed (fixed). I’m NOT happy that they are ALSO decreasing the duration. I think Anet is going overboard nerfing this elite.

Yeah i feel the cooldown should be reduced along with the duration at the very least.

Was somewhat a needed nerf,which i gladly accept since i wont see any more meteornado eles on wvw.

I also think there is nothing wrong at all with this elite outside of the scaling shenanigans. It’s big, slow, and has a relatively long cooldown, as well as locks out utilities. So it should be able to stand on its own. However, I’d be really happy with 20 sec duration if it was a tradeoff for a reduced cooldown.

I think the CD should be lowered a bit. They removed the biggest thing that warranted the CD, which was the ability to insta-gib someone. Right now there is no way that you are going to 1 shot someone unless they are incredibly squishy.

The CD is fine in my opinion and matches most of the form elites in the game. The reduction of its duration is disappointing though specially since the damage output is greatly reduced.
Lich form is already a completely counterable elite and can only be used in certain situations. Anet keeps talking about avoiding drastic nerfs or buffs but they are doing exactly that to Lich Form.

I agree a reduction in CD to go with the reduced duration but have to wonder if Plague form could not have used a bit of buffing. I never use it outside of WvW because it does not seem to do much of anything in most other situations. Don’t even get me started on racial elites.

Anchoku.8142:

I agree a reduction in CD to go with the reduced duration but have to wonder if Plague form could not have used a bit of buffing. I never use it outside of WvW because it does not seem to do much of anything in most other situations. Don’t even get me started on racial elites.

Plague is extremely strong in all game modes for its uses. You could buff the two forms that are basically never used (the non-blind ones), but otherwise the blind spam is very relevant all the time.

ehm queston to anyone who actualy knows damage math.

before it was 4000power * 1000 something #1skill
now it will be 2000 power (zerker) * 2000 something #1 skill

This wont have any effect on dmg right? like in wvw, you could crit a squishy for 9k , while mostly it was 4,5k , 3k on heavy defense targets.
Im asking the dmg wont be any higher on high toughness targets because of the higher skill coeficient?

The target’s armor won’t make differences due to coefficient no. Damage done = all power multipliers (power, weapon damage, weapon coefficient) divided by armor. So it doesn’t matter if the coefficient is high or low, as long as power and weapon damage are proportionate. For example if your power is now half of what it used to be in lich, but lich’s skill coefficients are doubled, everything will be the same for Lich skills.

Bhawb.7408:

The target’s armor won’t make differences due to coefficient no. Damage done = all power multipliers (power, weapon damage, weapon coefficient) divided by armor. So it doesn’t matter if the coefficient is high or low, as long as power and weapon damage are proportionate. For example if your power is now half of what it used to be in lich, but lich’s skill coefficients are doubled, everything will be the same for Lich skills.

That said, it should be noted that Lich Form never multiplied your total Power. It added a set amount based on your level (and no other factors!). So, it’s quite possible for you to actually deal more damage in Lich Form post-patch than pre-patch.

The lich change is totally a nerf. With the decreased amount of power you gain. The procs of fire/air which completely scale with power since they cannot crit is decreased.

They even mention it in the video if you listen carefully. They say ‘outside damage’ scaling is reduced.

Currently pre-patch a lich attack could almost one shot people with procs this was only possible with the addition of double fire/air sigils.

The duration is nerfed as well.

The basic attacks are the same however, the procs are all decreased so the chill of death (non power scaled ) proc will be lessened, the fire and air procs as well will be lessed.

This is how much damage the lich can do with perfect procs >5.5-6k auto crit (almost always crits cause near 100% crit rate), fire proc for 2k ish, air proc for 2.1-2.5k ish, chill of death (3 boons) for 4k crit = 14.5k in one shot.

TBH if they nerf the damage AND the duration they need to decrease the CD to at least 150s. Currently lich form can be hard countered and still dealt with. Reflect makes you murder yourself, boon strip > cc is easy to take care of. Blind spam also ruins lich. And you’re a giant friggin target so any team besides the fact you’re a necro is going to jump on you.

Bhawb.7408:

Anchoku.8142:

I agree a reduction in CD to go with the reduced duration but have to wonder if Plague form could not have used a bit of buffing. I never use it outside of WvW because it does not seem to do much of anything in most other situations. Don’t even get me started on racial elites.

Plague is extremely strong in all game modes for its uses. You could buff the two forms that are basically never used (the non-blind ones), but otherwise the blind spam is very relevant all the time.

Maybe my perception of Plague is not accurate but I thought the utility is primarily an condition applier with stability and a whole lot of durability so that, after burning a heal, the player can essentially turtle until the cool-down for the next heal is exhausted. In that way, I agree it is very powerful but seems more like a panic button while Lich has powerful attacks, the only knock-back Necro has, a handful of bait to keep NPCs busy, boon-stripping and condi-cleansing, even vulnerability. Lich has a lot of general utility in combat. In Plague, I cannot res downed players or do much of anything but float around inflicting conditions and a bit of damage while waiting for the transform to end so I can heal, again.

The point of Plague is indeed a stalling tool. The massive Toughness and Vitality boost plus the blind spam is very, very effective at keeping yourself alive, but the blind spam and poison do a pretty good job at shutting down opponents as well.

Seiishizo.7162:

ya cus necro is sooooooo good at stacking might…

ofc its a nerf

10 stacks with utility, 3 stacks on weapon swap, 1 stack per crit, extra stacks when taking damage, and runes of strength. I’ve easily maintained 20+ stacks of might in matches.

Plague is a 30s AoE blind that completely shuts down melee damage output. Its more than just stalling for a heal, it allows an otherwise fully glass necromancer to easily solo hold a point in PvP for 30s. It is the exact opposite of lich, it gives you an incredibly strong defensive boost (which is the point) via condis.

Bhawb.7408:

Plague is a 30s AoE blind that completely shuts down melee damage output. Its more than just stalling for a heal, it allows an otherwise fully glass necromancer to easily solo hold a point in PvP for 30s. It is the exact opposite of lich, it gives you an incredibly strong defensive boost (which is the point) via condis.

Plague is 20s. Lich is going to match plague’s duration now. And you won’t solo hold a point in pvp for the full 20s. They’re going to counter your plague, so its more around 10s of plague and then forced to drop out or risk dying when you leave.

It is a nerf but a needed one. And only the procs and well bomb portions are being nerfed, the Lich’s actual damage will be about the same if not better. The duration nerf isn’t bad for pvp since most people never use it for full duration, it does hurt pve community though, where it didn’t need to be nerfed.

So I’ll only be able to 11111 an kill two ppl during Lich instead of 3? Okay.