Isn't it an easy fix?

Isn't it an easy fix?

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Posted by: Phadde.7362

Phadde.7362

I’m fairly new to the Necromancer profession. While reading up on the profession, I found that the community seems to have accepted that the Necro does support (in practice) really poorly, since it comes of such a huge loss of Dps – A loss that isn’t nearly as big among the other professions. Even the builds that tries to focus on offence seems to be widely considered to, quite clearly be sub-par, since other professions can deal the same amount of damage but still gain party-wide benefits

I’ve quoted one guy that I found on the GW2guru, that has written extensive guides about the profession and who’s opinions seem to be accepted and shared with the rest of the community:

The criticisms on these and the official forums are, unfortunately, pretty well founded. In ideal settings, Necros fail to bring to the party what so many other classes can. Necros have excellent niche builds (Vuln stacking, soft CC out the wazoo), but those things often come “for free” on other classes. For this reason and for this reason ALONE Necro sits in low-tier. If Necro gets some party love, it’ll jump up to top-tier quickly. It’s already there for PvP.

The general consensus is that, since Necros bring near-nothing to the table to help a party they should be left behind. While I agree that this assessment of the Necro’s offerings for a party is accurate, I’m still a proponent of using them in dungeons/fractals if my group’s okay with it. . .

. . .In reality, a full GC Powermancer sits in top-tier when it comes to single target DPS. But because the Necro can ONLY bring single target DPS and no offensive group support, he’s left behind.

If these are the issues, if the Necromancer is sub-par quite simply because a lack of support, can’t this be easily fixed in the traits while also make the profession more balanced, when compared to others? Some examples that could easily be made party wide to resolve the issue:

Shrouded Removal: Remove a condition when entering Death Shroud.

Siphoning-Traits in general.

Foot in the Grave: Gain stability when entering Death Shroud.

Signet Mastery: . . . Activating a Signet grants Might.

Furious Demise: Gain Fury when entering Death Shroud.

Siphoned Power: Gain Might when entering the health threshold.

What do you think? Would these be easy solutions? If you do, why do you think that they aren’t in game already?

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Posted by: Bweaty.9187

Bweaty.9187

They could remove the new CD on DS exit. Only have it on entry.

How would this simple change give a huge boost to necro support?

- While still being forced to exit DS to go res a allie, it wouldn’t lock you out of your only defense for a full CD.

- Deathly Invigoration would actually become viable.

It would also make DS necro lots more fun & skillful to play. As you would drop DS to suck up the life force on death. Unlike now, where it’s the skill is waiting around for your LifeForce to run out, so you can gen more & get back in faster. (Yay for forced idle/afk skilled play)


Removing a condi on entry to DS, doesn’t fix we can’t remove condi’s in DS. They just stack up and destroy us in the time when we are waiting for our util buttons to appear again.

Siphoning got a huge rework balance patch before last. They lowered heals from it, increased damage with power. Gave it a 0.004% co efficient (totally pointless). Siphon & heals have no synergy with DS. Siphons are weaker than others passive aoe heals. (Excluding minions, which got nerfed balance patch, but still requires your entire spec to do)

Foot in the Grave: Used to give perm stability in DS, that got nerf’ed. I think a ‘brakes stun’ added in, would make it’s 3sec burst of stability, useful. (also fixing stablity to work with knockbacks, as warriors just kick you and LoL at your 30 trait waste)

Signet Mastery/Siphoned Power: Already gives 3 stacks of might on signet use. Also get might stack on life, not sure what you mean as they already there…
What I’d love to see with might stacking, is “Reaper’s Might” should be per mob hit with Life Blast. War’s get to might stack per mob hit, not per cast.
I think this would add a ‘powering up’ feel to DS.

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Posted by: Phadde.7362

Phadde.7362

“Some examples that could easily be made party wide to resolve the issue:”

My idea was to make the listed traits party-wide.

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Posted by: Panhauramix.2784

Panhauramix.2784

If only those traits were made party-wide, I would be the first to create a boon duration build if only for almost permanent group stability.

Siphon numbers would now at least have a purpose been so low, if it heals everyone around (minions included when soloing )

I totally agree that necro right now are, while fun to play for map completion, selfish to the bone. Even minion-drawing-conditions trait should draw them from allies, so that you can help your group as a minionmancer and feel useful.

80’s: Razdhül Necro/Desire Mesmer/ Ykarys War/ Yphrit Ele/
Panhauramix Guardian/Pistoleros Engineer/ Orbite Thief
Gates of Madness – Leader of Homicide Volontaire [HV]

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

The problem is not that we can’t help, we can help other teamates the problem is that we sacrifice too much for so little.
here is a video for a healer necromancer ( I did not make this):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6pnXc_Rp3k

EverythingOP

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Even minion-drawing-conditions trait should draw them from allies, so that you can help your group as a minionmancer and feel useful.

This actually is the case already. Fetid Consumption doesn’t only draw conditions from the master, but any nearby ally.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
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Posted by: Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

Necromancer relies, in a large part, upon conditions for CC but those conditions are readily available to other professions and those professions are inherently less reliant upon them for sustainability in combat.

The community was complaining soon after launch about this very problem. Outside of sabotaging boon builds or wiping trash mobs, there was little of value to a group with the ability to apply their own bleeds, chills, poison, cripple, weakness, vulnerability, etc. That is why Necromancer dps has steadily been increased while conditions have been trimmed.

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Posted by: Ghostextechnica.3270

Ghostextechnica.3270

Anet are funneling us towards power, which is fine for me, but we have so many useless/situational condition skills. I feel like I have half the skills of other classes.

Especially when other classes can just choose a single talent and just be immune. Our group support is so average.

I would love if we shared our buffs. It is an easy fix, and we wouldn’t lose on dps.

When I get that feeling I want… spectral healing.

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Posted by: Tael.5432

Tael.5432

The necromancer supports the party with crowd control. This would be much better on bosses if difiance was removed.

My build (Which is Similar to Nemesis’ hybrid damage build) also stacks vulnerability with axe and focus 4 skill, which also heals allies if it bounces off them by a small amount.

Because the hybrid damage build uses condition damage of a scepter, and the bursting damage of an axe, it’s actually beneficial to invest in celestial gear (Ascended trinkets that add an equal amount to all stats, including healing power).

This really shines when you invest in a level 10 trait in the blood trait line, which allows you to heal up to 5 allies at once every time you life transfer (every 40 seconds) and still damage up to 5 mobs. This essentially heals everyone in your party within range about 5,000 hp.

EDIT: So in conclusion, from experience, this is why I don’t think it’s fair to say the Necromancer can’t help support in a party. I think it functions very well, as well as putting out it’s own pressure and damage. I think the true problem if difiance, not letting us cripple, chill bosses and etc.

Fairy Tael – Elementalist

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

What i would love to see:

- Deathly Mist – Allies in range regenerate health while you are in Death Shroud (Basically Soothing Mist)

and make:

Furious Demise, Vampiric Precision, Vampiric, Spiteful Vigor, Signet Mastery, Spiteful Spirit and Foot In The Grave all affect allies.

Could go further and make it so that Life Blast heals all allies that it passes through and/or near the target. This would have it make sense that you would lose life force as it would be costing life force but healing allies.

Make Transfusion PART of the actual skill and give us another trait for group support, Maybe removal of conditions on allies say every 3-5 seconds and actual removal not copying it or anything.

I think Necromancer could have some REALLY good support builds especially some involving DeathShroud IF Anet could be bothered to actually do it.

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Posted by: Uberkafros.5431

Uberkafros.5431

The new healing signet has the potential to give party support through healing/damage but the icd makes it useless (for the active)

What makes me wonder is why is siphoning tied with both healing and damaging hence with 2 stats and is not implemented as a straight up leech?

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Posted by: Stx.4857

Stx.4857

I like Necromancers being a selfish class as far as healing and boon sharing etc.

I have always felt that a Necro should help his party by weakening the enemies they are fighting.

Area Weakness, area chills, cripples, blinds, etc.

The only problem with this is that many times, other classes can do these things just as well as we can for some reason. Also, most bosses are immune to these effects, or greatly reduce them.

2x 80 Necro, 80 Ranger, 80 Thief

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Posted by: Panhauramix.2784

Panhauramix.2784

Even minion-drawing-conditions trait should draw them from allies, so that you can help your group as a minionmancer and feel useful.

This actually is the case already. Fetid Consumption doesn’t only draw conditions from the master, but any nearby ally.

Wow, I was sure I tested this and it didn’t work. If it really does, it’s a good news for my MM pvp build duo.

80’s: Razdhül Necro/Desire Mesmer/ Ykarys War/ Yphrit Ele/
Panhauramix Guardian/Pistoleros Engineer/ Orbite Thief
Gates of Madness – Leader of Homicide Volontaire [HV]

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Posted by: Ghostextechnica.3270

Ghostextechnica.3270

I have always felt that a Necro should help his party by weakening the enemies they are fighting.

Area Weakness, area chills, cripples, blinds, etc.

The only problem with this is that many times, other classes can do these things just as well as we can for some reason. Also, most bosses are immune to these effects, or greatly reduce them.

Me too. The fact only some classes get boon-support ability, but everyone gets condition-support is so disappointing – it destroys a really nice niche for Necro.

In GW1 we also had a lot of unique boons we could cast on the tank that would keep them alive or do serious ‘on-hit’ damage, or the healer that would give more energy. However, with no tanks at all, this support has vanished from the game too.

When I get that feeling I want… spectral healing.

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Posted by: Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

I think most GW2 professions have the potential for intentional tank builds but the trait bonuses and the way conditions are literally impossible not to include marginalizes the Necromancer. The profession is not weak, just not attractive enough in a support role.

War and Guard can both be standard tanks, Ranger and Engi regenerators, Ele and Ranger spike healers, and Thief and Mes ninja/shadow tanks. Necro is definitely a face-tanker like War and Guard but the War has high dps and combat mobility, and the Guard has boon and healing. Necro has conditions but conditions come automatically with every build, every weapon, and every class. It’s like being really good at watching television: Anyone can do that.

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Posted by: Kraag Deadsoul.2789

Kraag Deadsoul.2789

Perhaps it’s time to introduce a whole new approach to boons that is necro-specific/necro-themed. The vision here is a necro feeds off of the aggression surrounding him or her. The greater the violence, the more power the necro can draw from it.

In game-mechanics terms, this translates into the necro applying party-wide buffs as certain conditions are met; the amount of damage they suffer, the amount of damage they deal, the number of enemies within a certain radius, etc. Furthermore, this would scale. The following is just a brainstorming example to illustrate the concept; don’t take it as a literal suggestion written in stone:

Necro surrounded by 1 opponent = every W seconds, grants X stacks of Might for Y seconds to the necro and up to 4 other allies in range.

Necro surrounded by 2 – 3 opponents = every W seconds, grants X stacks of Might for Y seconds and Fury for Z seconds to the necro and up to 4 other allies in range.

Necro surrounded by 4 or more opponents = every W seconds, grants X stacks of Might for Y seconds, Fury for Z seconds, and a few seconds of Retaliation to the necro and up to 4 other allies in range.

Note the boons being applied fit the necro theme of benefiting from aggression; they’re the offensive buffs of Might, Fury, and Retaliation. No defensive boons such as Aegis, Protection, Vigor, etc. for the necro.

If this new mechanic is triggered via traits, it could even be made to fit the theme of each of the trait lines. The example given above would be appropriate for our power line, Spite.

Maybe the Curses line sees condition manipulation as the form of party support. For each condition on the necro’s allies but limited by the number of opponents (1 opponent, 1 condition counter; 2 – 3 opponents, 2 condition counters; 4 or more opponents, 3 condition counters; etc.), the party gains some buff to counter-act the condition, gives them a temporary bonus to precision, or something appropriate to the Curses line.

Death Magic could see short-lived bonuses to toughness on a party-wide basis. This may even be an appropriate place to slip in the Protection buff.

The Blood Magic line support would include things such as mass regen of short duration and party-wide life siphoning for a hit or two.

Soul Reaping is a little tricky. Perhaps the necro’s life force pool is used to save party members from death. For example, the next time a party member takes damage that would send them to defeat, that damage is instead deducted from the necro’s life force pool, saving their ally.

The critical point, though, is none of the above is done in a vacuum. These aren’t traits or skills the necro can voluntarily activate to apply these advantages and boons. Instead, they are triggered only when certain criteria are met. Those criteria being tied to aggression thresholds of some form or another. Some of these were mentioned at the beginning of the suggestion; I’m sure there’s more the contributors to this forum could come up with.

Think of it like entering an alternate, mirror, or negative universe where the necro is the anti-guardian. How would such a class go about buffing their party if forced to draw on the aggression of their enemies and/or allies to fuel their powers?

So many souls, so little time. ~ Kraag Deadsoul

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

I think it would be cool if some of the following happened:

1)Life Blast Steals a boon from target – Could go further and make it so that the Pierce one steals a boon from each target hit

2) Being in DeathShroud corrupts nearby targets and turns boons into Conditions
Or
2.1) Steal nearby targets boons while in DeathShroud

3) Life Transfer now copies your boons to all allies in range and make Transfusion part of the skill and give us a new trait

They could add new skills that convert our conditions into Boons

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

2) Being in DeathShroud corrupts nearby targets and turns boons into Conditions

I vote that this functionality replaces the “minions have a chance to strip boons” for Necromantic Corruption (Death magic Grandmaster)

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
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I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

2) Being in DeathShroud corrupts nearby targets and turns boons into Conditions

I vote that this functionality replaces the “minions have a chance to strip boons” for Necromantic Corruption (Death magic Grandmaster)

That would be pretty amazing, and I would love that trait. It would need an ICD, but could be very cool.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

2) Being in DeathShroud corrupts nearby targets and turns boons into Conditions

I vote that this functionality replaces the “minions have a chance to strip boons” for Necromantic Corruption (Death magic Grandmaster)

That would be pretty amazing, and I would love that trait. It would need an ICD, but could be very cool.

I would say No cool down but small range, this way we would be a THREAT to those that spam boons and think they can just faceroll anything. Have it so that its like Death Shiver in that its every X seconds (3-5 imo) and have a reasonable range.

Heck, they could even combine it into Death Shiver, it already has that AoE aspect so all they would need to do is make it so that it corrupts boons every 3-5seconds

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Posted by: Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

I would like the four minion skills in DM combined into two.
Please introduce a signet CD reduction that scales with the number slotted.
I would also like SoV to consume Defiant with distributed healing scaling with stack size.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

I would like the four minion skills in DM combined into two.
Please introduce a signet CD reduction that scales with the number slotted.
I would also like SoV to consume Defiant with distributed healing scaling with stack size.

I would rather see the person that designed and then nerfed SoV to be sacked, the skill to be removed and us to be given a GOOD new heal…

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Posted by: Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

Consume Conditions is a good self-heal. WoB is a good wells heal with fair group support. Blood Fiend is good, now, too. A signet could be useful if they wanted it to. They could also develop a spectral heal. There are two trait improvements for spectral skills and they have better synergy than the ad hoc signets with their one, blanket CD reduction.

Necromancer could use another stand-out group support skill besides Epidemic to cover all the situations Epi is completely useless for. Defiant nerfed our use of Fear to the ground against bosses. It was the compliment to Epi’s use on trash mobs. That hurt Necromancer, too, when the real problem was War’s Fear Me.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

It would be nice if we got a heal that involved our class mechanic as well, the others have, so why cant we?

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Posted by: Overkillengine.6084

Overkillengine.6084

They could just make the SoV passive give you life force when you are hit; and some sort of DECENT hp leech ability as the active.

Then you can use it passively to fill up your DS bar, activate to top off hp as much as you can, then go into DS to ablate more incoming damage while the signet is on cooldown.

Much more synergy with the class mechanic than the dreck we got.