It's just not worth the trouble to play Necromancer.

It's just not worth the trouble to play Necromancer.

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Posted by: Lumines.3916

Lumines.3916

I’ve defended the Necromancer a lot until the past two weeks or so(when I started understanding Mesmers more). My first character since BWE #1 was the Necromancer and played it every beta when not testing other professions. It was my first character since headstart and still my only fully exotic geared character. The grass doesn’t just look greener, we have no grass while they have the garden of Eden.

I’ve tested pretty much all the utilities, weapons, traits the Necromancer has to offer. Some do work, others are terrible but one remains constant. Whatever that you end up coming up with that does work, it will be outperformed or will be easier to execute if you took the same idea and put it on another class (MESMERS).

Some of the issues are a bit fundamental. The Necromancer focuses a bit too much on the negative side of effects with possibly the most limited access to boons unless you specifically go out of your way to grab them. We’re supposed to use Weakness instead of Protection, Blind instead of Aegis yes, but guess what, Guardians can use both. Instead of merely decreasing damage output on one side of the spectrum, they can do it from both angles easily.

I’m not a Minion type person I’ll admit, but free meat shields sounds good while leveling yes? Horrid AI is common knowledge now, and well..Jagged Horrors? It doesn’t even trigger Death Nova when it cease to exist, we don’t even have a way to manually trigger these explosions and the cool downs are just terrible. The last slap in the face is that they take up an utility slot compared to Mesmer illusions.

If you want to play a Minion Master type, stack power and go to town with Mesmer phantasms. They actually reliably hit targets(Gasp), have relatively low cool downs, are on your weapon sets and you can manually detonate them(Shatter is clunky at times but it works well enough and the effects are really strong). Yes they can only target one thing at a time, but nothing is stopping you from spreading them out between targets. They got their own take on Death Nova too, Debilitating Dissipation and Crippling Dissipation.

Condition Necromancers, its manipulation skills are touted as the one of its strongest points right now is also completely outclassed by Mesmers. For one, they can easily strip boons/condition better with just Null Field alone(it basically kitten Wells), Arcane Thievery gives them both a transfer and a boon steal. Additionally, Barbed Precision is severely kittened when you look at Sharper Images. This means a Mesmer (counting himself) can have 4 sources to stack bleeds from at any given moment.

They get Might/Fury just by auto-attacking while proccing burns at a higher rate than Guardians or Engineers on top of the bleeds. Do you have smooth transitions down between staff, scepter and shroud to maximize your bleed output? That’s very nice, did you know all they have to do is spam Staff auto-attack and focus on popping utilities to react to the fight?

With Death Shroud, we’re paying the price by not having access to a stun-break that is under a minute cool down, we also have no mobility that is worthy to speak of, disengaging or roaming potential is completely zilch. We also lack options for control effects relative to every other class and our defensive cool downs are so watered down.

TLDR: Reroll Mesmer if you’re looking for a better Necromancer. They have the best iterations of your utilities and MORE on lower cool downs while being a complete frustration for foes to even touch. Guardians are your best bet if you’re going for a more defensive approach.

I’ve shelved my Necromancer for a Mesmer in tPvP now while I kill time with a Guard/Eng in PvE. And yea, I am pretty upset, a class I’ve spent a huge number of hours experimenting, researching from even before the game released is complete garbage once you branch out and understand how other classes can do the play-style you want to play.

(edited by Lumines.3916)

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Posted by: They are hashes.4523

They are hashes.4523

If you compare a Mesmer iWarlock (18 sec cd): ranged damage (3-5k)
to our Elite skill Flesh Golem (60 sec cd): melee damage 0.8-1.5k
you get the idea…

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Posted by: Holy.2356

Holy.2356

Agreed. I even spent around 25g to get my precision + toughness + condition damage gear for PvE to see if I could at least be useful. But… eh., no. Rerolling as an elementalist, they aren’t as OP as mesmers right now but at least they’re fun to play.

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Posted by: Mathemagician.7314

Mathemagician.7314

4*Whatever that you end up coming up with that does work, it will be outperformed or will be easier to execute if you took the same idea and put it on another class.*

This is exactly what I’ve been trying to convey to people for weeks.

Let’s say you spent 100 hours on necro and made it work. You are pretty good at Necro now. You can do some stuff.

If you had spent those 100 hours on another class, you would definitely make it work. You would be pretty good at that class, but you could do more than ‘some stuff.’ you could do ALL the stuff, and you would be much more effective in the game playing as this other class than you would be playing necro.

80 Necro: Yami Blind @ [US]Sea of Sorrows
Commander for [Sexy] of the Synergy Alliance

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Posted by: ckz.6291

ckz.6291

true , i really wish they buff us or something but i dont see them caring about the complains of necro, condition necro is the only viable build and still lacks compared to others

thye should buff us and give us more viable builds

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Posted by: RedDawn.7386

RedDawn.7386

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m enjoying my Necro and I won’t be re-rolling to another class simply because the “grass seems greener”. Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will realise that classes which are unbalanced, underpowered or underperforming will be buffed. Those that are overpowered will be nerfed. It’s just how it is.

The game is barely a month old and a class as complex as the Necromancer will take a while to iron out. Now that the game is out, ANet can begin the tough job of balancing classes as best they can and improving their playability.

For me personally I saw this with Warlocks in World of Warcraft, and it’s the same story here. Just wait it out and you’ll see the buffs/balancing you want come to Necros and they will have their time in the spotlight.

Just because they’re not awesome today, doesn’t mean they won’t be tomorrow. And when that day comes, you will be able to look back at the “dark ages” of the class and realise you stuck with it and are a veteran. Not a Flavour of the Month re-roller.

(edited by RedDawn.7386)

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Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m enjoying my Necro and I won’t be re-rolling to another class simply because the “grass seems greener”. Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will realise that classes which are unbalanced, underpowered or underperforming will be buffed. Those that are overpowered will be nerfed. It’s just how it is.

The game is barely a month old and a class as complex as the Necromancer will take a while to iron out. Now that the game is out, ANet can begin the tough job of balancing classes as best they can and improving their playability.

For me personally I saw this with Warlocks in World of Warcraft, and it’s the same story here. Just wait it out and you’ll see the buffs/balancing you want come to Necros and they will have their time in the spotlight.

Just because they’re not awesome today, doesn’t mean they won’t be tomorrow. And when that day comes, you will be able to look back at the “dark ages” of the class and realise you stuck with it and are a veteran. Not a Flavour of the Month re-roller.

Well, you’re probably new here and you aren’t yet informed about the Jon Peters’ post.

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Posted by: RedDawn.7386

RedDawn.7386

Well, you’re probably new here and you aren’t yet informed about the Jon Peters’ post.

You would be quite right about that.

Edit: Is this the post you’re talking about?

http://www.guildwars2junkies.com/2012/09/18/dev-tracker-jon-peters-on-necromancers-death-shroud/

I take more positives than negatives from that post. I don’t know what all the furore is about here? Are there any posts from the developers that’re condemning the Necromancer to no further changes?

(edited by RedDawn.7386)

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Posted by: nachtnebel.9168

nachtnebel.9168

Well, you’re probably new here and you aren’t yet informed about the Jon Peters’ post.

You would be quite right about that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-play-a-necro-but-I-traid-a-warrior-for-one-play-session/first

On the first and second page you will find the following two posts by Jon Peters:

Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him.

Let me try and clarify myself a bit more. Death Shroud is very powerful because it gives Necromancer access to a secondary health bar which is is much more reliably renewable than normal health is for other professions. On top of that it essentially also gives them a 3rd weapon set that they can use to circumvent the basic weapon swap cooldown to reliably bounce between powerful skills in 3 different sets. For both of these reasons, Necromancer has a high power ceiling but also an extremely high learning curve.

In the current condition heavy meta-game, there is a lot of condition removal. The problem this is causing for Necromancers is that they do not have a lot of build diversity in this meta, because they don’t have any great power builds they can turn to. What I would like to try and do is increase build diversity without increasing effectiveness because I don’t believe we have really seen what strong Necromancers can do yet.

Hopefully that explains a bit where we stand. We are still working towards getting rid of all of the bugs in everyone’s skills and traits at which point we can get a much better idea of where everyone stands. That time will also give us the chance to see where the large amount of current players actually takes the meta game.

Jon

Salix Babylonica (Necro), Tharnath (Guardian), N Faculty (Mesmer),
Occam Pi (Ele), Acaena Elongata (Warrior), Finja Salversdotir (Ranger),
Bytestream (Engineer), Vim Whitespace (Thief)

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Posted by: Lumines.3916

Lumines.3916

Let me go ahead and dig that up for you.

Let me try and clarify myself a bit more. Death Shroud is very powerful because it gives Necromancer access to a secondary health bar which is is much more reliably renewable than normal health is for other professions. On top of that it essentially also gives them a 3rd weapon set that they can use to circumvent the basic weapon swap cooldown to reliably bounce between powerful skills in 3 different sets. For both of these reasons, Necromancer has a high power ceiling but also an extremely high learning curve.

In the current condition heavy meta-game, there is a lot of condition removal. The problem this is causing for Necromancers is that they do not have a lot of build diversity in this meta, because they don’t have any great power builds they can turn to. What I would like to try and do is increase build diversity without increasing effectiveness because I don’t believe we have really seen what strong Necromancers can do yet.

Hopefully that explains a bit where we stand. We are still working towards getting rid of all of the bugs in everyone’s skills and traits at which point we can get a much better idea of where everyone stands. That time will also give us the chance to see where the large amount of current players actually takes the meta game.

Jon

What we’re trying to do on the Necromancer section is to of course give valid feedback. There’s a lot of QQ and whiney posts out there that is for certain, but also lies extremely good discussion that the devs can base decisions on. You’re not the only one that’s been around the block to know what a buff/nerf cycle is like, but to fuel that you need valid points for balance. Do you even know why people even bother writing out arguments detailing this and that? It’s because -gasp- they actually CARE about it, that’s why they were playing it in the first place.

Also, I really like this ego-stroking and weird notion of prestige that you seem to think you’d earn if you only stick with one class. This obvious need of validation from what others think of you in relation to the class is completely foreign to me. The fastest way to learn how to beat other classes is to go around and learn all of them. The best Dota and HoN players will have a few champions they’re very efficient at but still will be able to play -ar just fine. It’d be a shame not to take advantage of the sPvP system in the same manner.

I’m frustrated with the class because it fails to live up to its potential and why would I continue to deal with that when I can just focus on my energy elsewhere and come back to the Necromancer once the kinks have been ironed out. Not only will I have gained another class’ perspective, I still know the Necromancer like the back of my hand. And that’s what I’ll have on players like you.

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Posted by: RedDawn.7386

RedDawn.7386

I hope you weren’t taking this too much to heart. I was speaking in general terms, and it wasn’t directed to you personally.

I was just trying to put a positive spin on things. There’s a lot of negativity going around, and through negativity contempt is born. Which it seems that I have got from you. So, I will remove myself from the discussion since I have little to add if it’s catching the developers attention on balance concerns that you wish to do.

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Posted by: Frotee.2634

Frotee.2634

Personally, I found the Mesmer much more breakable than the necromancer, who is more forgiving if you’re kind of bad at keyboard movement and miss a dodge or two.
I hardly played any necromancer during beta (because I wanted to savour that one for release) and played quite a lot of mesmer, elementalist, ranger and thief (in PvE – PvP just isn’t my kind of gameplay) – while the necro definitely did have a higher dps output during beta (axe was just…wow), I still have most fun on this class when comparing my experiences on the different classes. I still want to lovve the ranger more than I actually do, the mesmer simply didn’t feel right to me, and neither did the ele (glass cannon >_>) . Thief was fun, but hadn’t figured out how to deal with larger numbers of enemies.

I agree that the necromancer is in dire need of bug fixes and a buff or two, and I can understand it if many of you say that you won’t play it until it has been fixed – but I simply can’t agree when you say “it’s just not worth the trouble”. After all, this is still a question of play-style preferences; no matter how efficient other classes are, if I have no fun playing them/ don’t like the feel of them, well, then those may also not be worth the trouble.

Polka will never die

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Posted by: forice.3165

forice.3165

this is why i posted many threads that compare necromancer to mesmer. i have 80 level mesmer. i played it for 250 hours. i didn’t complain too much when i play mesmer. and i thought gw2 is a funny and balanced game even if some traits are bugged. most skills of mesmer are instant. and they are very strong and useful. and there is a mantra skill that i can cause 2 seconds daze 3 times instantly anytime. 1 second fear+0.5 second(50% longer trait) is laughable. but most necromancer skills are long duration and weak and not instant. if i say necromancer is weak than others in chat, people say necromancer is not weak. and they say they are topscoreboard. you can win anyone if you are very good at necromancer and if you have good team. but still they say necromancer is strong even if i say this class has so many bugs. they are just bunch of trolls or something. they see only good things and what they want to see even if there are so many bad things. they see only their build. and they say necromancer is strong. i hope they play necromancer with 100 bugs. don’t fix the bug. make more bugs for them. it seems like they love this. i am talking about the ingame experience. everythings i said are true because i played this game for 250 hours. it is enough time to know the balance. even if they fix all bugs, i doubt necromancer will be viable in real fight. they must remove those useless traits. bunch of traits are just useless. for example, 1 second + 0.5 second is useless. look at mesmer. there is a trait that i can use mantra one more time. and i can 2 seconds daze 3 times.
2 seconds instant daze 3 times vs 1.5 second ground targeting/death shroud fear.
it seems like necromancer is just weak themed class.
and compare minions to phantasms. some phantasms have even projectile reflection. 3 phantasmal warlocks normally do 15k damage when you play with others.
they must remove casting delay or make necromancer skills more stronger. i just die while i use a skill because i have no any instant skills. death shroud is a sandbag. you just die while you use life transfer. because most people in PVP do a lot of damage in few seconds. even if you have many healths, if you can’t do a lot of damage per second, it is useless.

(edited by forice.3165)

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Posted by: Frizz.6704

Frizz.6704

I hope you weren’t taking this too much to heart. I was speaking in general terms, and it wasn’t directed to you personally.

I was just trying to put a positive spin on things. There’s a lot of negativity going around, and through negativity contempt is born. Which it seems that I have got from you. So, I will remove myself from the discussion since I have little to add if it’s catching the developers attention on balance concerns that you wish to do.

Redawn – I thought your message was accurate. There are some vocal people that hate Necro, and they have valid points, but, like yourself, I would rather stick with the class knowing things will get better. You are not the only happy Necro out there.

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Posted by: Jay wilson.1702

Jay wilson.1702

atleast your stonger then eles lol

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Posted by: Andele.1306

Andele.1306

atleast your stonger then eles lol

Really, please go dual dagger ele and then talk.

When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.