Guild Wars 2

So far, aside from abysmal pet AI, minions work fairly well as meat shields in my experience. I can walk around Orr without worry because they usually take most of the hits.

The problem though, is with the minor trait that summons jagged horrors.

Now, according to the wiki, you can have 5 of these active at a time max, sounds good, right? well, it would be nice, if they lived for more than 10 seconds.

Currently, a Horror will not last 10 seconds as it will degenerate and die fairly fast, they literally come up and die instantly every 30 seconds (as per the cd of the trait.) You can’t even tote one from one fight to another, because chances are it’ll die on the way there.

Luckily, turning off voices made my life easier since i didn’t need to constantly hear my character mourn the death of the useless horrors every 30 seconds, but that’s another story entirely.

I wouldn’t even care if every horror only took maybe 3-5 hits to kill, i just want them to at least stick around to do their job as a meat shield instead of die instantly as soon as they come out of the ground. Is that so much to ask for? Currently, this trait is wasting a slot that could be used for at least something marginally useful.

I’ve encountered the same thing! I thought it was broken at first, because it seems like a completely useless minor trait. I sincerely hope it gets changed.

After experimenting extensively with the Horrors, I’m pretty sure they’re designed to be used with the Grandmaster trait “Death Nova”. Focus down one person in a large group of players, let them get insta-gibbed, and it’s an extra stack of AoE poison to add to your conditions. This doesn’t quite make sense, however, as having a 5-point minor trait only do something when taking one specific Grandmaster major trait- and not a particularly powerful combo, either- I have to conclude that this skill was most likely overlooked in testing. Most of the Necromancer traits are a tad underwhelming in comparison to others, but this skill is useless in all but the most specific of situations.

It must have been hotfix-nerfed to being abysmal because it looks like a placeholder effect.

They’re really terrible and do nothing more than let you listen to your character say
“Arise, my minioNOOOO I HAND RAISED THAT MINION!”
“It started out as a corpse, and now IT LIVES!”
(overlapping voice effects, from minion death and minion creation)

It would bekitten if an adept minor trait gained at level 10 (potentially) is solely meant to be used by a Grandmaster Major Trait at level 60+. If that was the case they could just as easily make Death Nova cause your enemies to explode and it would be much more effective.

They obviously meant for them to do something but as they are now they can’t because some idiot either screwed up some code or thought this was an important balancing issue.

For a brief time during one of the beta events they didn’t degen health. They should just die in one hit, but remain at full health until then.

BeardRex.6739:

For a brief time during one of the beta events they didn’t degen health. They should just die in one hit, but remain at full health until then.

Oh, that would have been amazing…

BeardRex.6739:

For a brief time during one of the beta events they didn’t degen health. They should just die in one hit, but remain at full health until then.

Also a while back, minions regenerated health when out of combat…they took that away as well.

True MM is impossible with the GW2 Necro.

I have to agree. I have played necromancer since the first days of GW1 and now GW2 and find that running MM now is not nearly as useful as other necro builds (and in many cases it is downright kittened). However my biggest complaint is about these jagged horrors. Even with Death Nova, they are only barely useful as they can’t even make it to another mob before dying and then exploding with nobody around. ANET needs to take off the degen already. I mean with a max of 5 that die in one hit anyway, they aren’t overpowered, but at least then could be useful.

And the constant voicing of their rise and death is nothing less than annoying. Makes me almost skip the entire death trait line just to avoid that minor trait!

MokahTGS.7850:

Also a while back, minions regenerated health when out of combat…they took that away as well.

True MM is impossible with the GW2 Necro.

Flesh Golem still regens health out of combat.

At any rate I fully agree with the OP, in fact unless a jagged horror happens to spawn while I’m using an AoE heal/regen ability they won’t even last 5 seconds. I really have to wonder if their current degen isn’t a bug as by the time they finish the summoning animation they’re already at half health.

I don’t mind them being fragile and expendable but in their current state they are completely useless as they’ll die of natural causes before they can even land a single attack in combat.

Regen out of combat would fix a lot with MM necros. It’s not like you can’t start every battle with full health minions; it’s just annoying and takes a while.

Jagged horrors with 1 HP and no degeneration might be nice. But only because anything is an improvement, I agree.

Also, keeping your character from bemoaning the loss of jagged horrors would be great.

Just so you know the reason you can have 5 jagged horrors active at once is because of a lich form (30 point elite) ability which summons 5.

most of the necro’s trait buffs are pretty much just as useless as this skill is.

They are so useless, they could be useful if once they died we gained some health back from them, or a stack of might, or we gained life…….anything really. The bleed they have when they spawn is so strong the live maybe 3-4 secs then they die with usually little to no damage done.

If we gained from their death or if they were much sturdier (or bleed dmg was reduced) then they could be really useful.

As I see it, minion masters are currently not functioning as they should. Here’s what needs to be fixed:

• All Minions need to regen health out of combat, just like pets.
• CD for Blood fiend needs to be removed when it is killed but mobs or AoE. Consuming it for health retains the CD.
• Flesh Golem (and all minions) AI needs to be fixed or given finer control.
• Jagged Horrors need the degen removed.
• All “Oh Noes, my minion died!!” VO should be removed. They are minions…not cherished pets.
• Bone minions need to run to target to explode, and it should pick the one that has the least health.

Making these changes is not overpowered because the necro needs to choose the skills, sacrificing other utility skills to use minions. These changes just allows the player to play as a true MM, not some weakened kitten.

I’m almost positive the current state of the MM necro isn’t permanent by any means. It was pretty apparent in the BWEs that they were having severe issues balancing them for both PvP and PvE. I think they’ve probably just made the build non-viable until the balance team can figure out how to make it work. It’s better to have one build out of many not work quite right, than to have MM be the absolute best spec out of anything, eclipsing out the other builds. Heck, if MM worked as intended I wouldn’t have discovered the awesomesauce that is the Wellomancer.

MokahTGS.7850:

• All “Oh Noes, my minion died!!” VO should be removed. They are minions…not cherished pets.

oh god, this, please. it’s SO annoying

Shaman.8532:

MokahTGS.7850:

• All “Oh Noes, my minion died!!” VO should be removed. They are minions…not cherished pets.

oh god, this, please. it’s SO annoying

Character – “Farewell sweet soul”

Me- OMG Shut up!

I dunno, the human necro’s exasperated “sigh I’ll have to make another one” fits the theme pretty well. Gives me a chuckle, anyway.

EDIT: Also “It lived a good life. Short… but good.”

I second Mokah’s list, just want to add a request to prevent pets from attacking until i start to attack only.

Yaganox.8601:

I second Mokah’s list, just want to add a request to prevent pets from attacking until i start to attack only.

Yes please, my flesh golem was infuriating for running over and punching anything that looked at it wrong :/

The only use they serve is when they did you get a little life force.

As they currently exist, they are useless. Remove the 30s cooldown plus the limit and make it summon 4 each time. Maybe then they will have a purpose, but I suspect they will still commit suicide or die before being able to do anything.

I think the best thing that could be done with them is on their death you get something, a boon, or a condition removed, or life force, or health, or something.

You already get life force when they die.

Asura female is best necromancer.

“I can always summon more.”

That’s the attitude a necromancer should have.

MokahTGS.7850:

• All Minions need to regen health out of combat, just like pets.
• CD for Blood fiend needs to be removed when it is killed but mobs or AoE. Consuming it for health retains the CD.
• Flesh Golem (and all minions) AI needs to be fixed or given finer control.
• Jagged Horrors need the degen removed.
• All “Oh Noes, my minion died!!” VO should be removed. They are minions…not cherished pets.
• Bone minions need to run to target to explode, and it should pick the one that has the least health.

This is a great list.

I also, personally, think that Flesh of the Master should be the (25) Death minor and should allow minions to inherit a percentage of the players Toughness and Vitality. Then DS should be moved to 15, and PotH to 5, and Reanimator redesigned to the (X) Major which summons a non-degenerating Jagged Horror on a 10 – 15s internal cooldown.

Unpredictability.4086:

You already get life force when they die.

If so I haven’t noticed it doing much. How much do we get?

as far as they’re AI is concerned it half works and half doesn’t,
yes, they actually do partially target your target. I’ve accidently attempted to attack one enemy causing my minions to charge after them, and then swapped targets to another, causing my mininos to swap as well.

however, once combat starts it all goes completely out the window:
-bone minions are unresponsive 80% of the time
-flesh golem charge gets stuck on geometry a LOT
-bone minion doesn’t seem to properly use it’s range

and then there seem to be trait issues as well:
-death nova doesn’t work with minion sacrifices for bone minions explosion or blood fiend sacrifice(it should count as a death regardless)
*this conflicts with 3 of the minion actives (flesh wurm, bone minion, and blood fiend) as you now need to chose between using them up or getting the poison field.
-jagged horrors are completely useless outside of a free 3 second poison AOE (only paired with death nova)

I mean, I can’t even see why jagged horrors need the degen and cooldown at the same time. they attack once every 4 seconds and hit for pitiful damage like the bone minions. At the very least bone minions are worth having around for their explosive damage.

Skliros.1058:

I’m almost positive the current state of the MM necro isn’t permanent by any means. It was pretty apparent in the BWEs that they were having severe issues balancing them for both PvP and PvE. I think they’ve probably just made the build non-viable until the balance team can figure out how to make it work. It’s better to have one build out of many not work quite right, than to have MM be the absolute best spec out of anything, eclipsing out the other builds. Heck, if MM worked as intended I wouldn’t have discovered the awesomesauce that is the Wellomancer.

I still don’t understand why they can’t do what they did in Guild Wars…

Oh look, skills are PVE in PVE, and when in PVP they have a PVP effect.

That was one of the things I respected about them. They didn’t try to balance for both with the exact same skill. They had two versions.

For GW2, they could just have the balance take effect only in PVP.

I beleave you only get life force from enemies not allies.

Dead matrix.2670:

I beleave you only get life force from enemies not allies.

You get it from rats and other critters ( I do it all the time to boost up my pool before a fight) so it’s not too hard to think that we might get it from them.

Besides doesn’t it just say we get life from deaths near us, not enemy deaths

@ Elethor. As soon as you attack that critter he becomes a foe. i have never seen in 200+ hours of play 1 green bubble come from a allie. And GW2 wiki defines life force as (Life force is gained when foes die nearby ) .

Dead matrix.2670:

@ Elethor. As soon as you attack that critter he becomes a foe. i have never seen in 200+ hours of play 1 green bubble come from a allie. And GW2 wiki defines life force as (Life force is gained when foes die nearby ) .

actually I got life force from my friend’s warband allies when they despawned, we were in the same party so they should have counted as “allies”.

jagged horror amounts to nothing more than a vanity pet. it hard enough to look at useless traits like 5% power becomes healing power, but to be the only profession that spawns a useless vanity pet as a trait is saddening.

To clear things up, we get lifeforce any time anything, be it ally, enemy, or neutral, dies nearby. The tooltip clarifies that.

@skliros. If that was true when i make 2 bone minions with 0% life force, and blow them up, you would get some % of life force !!! you dont . Try it for your self .

No, you don’t get it from the bone minions, but you do get it with a jagged horror. Watch the green bubbles. Also, stand near a guard being attacked by a mob. It’s buggy, but most of the time you get lifeforce from the friendly guard dying.

Skliros.1058:

No, you don’t get it from the bone minions, but you do get it with a jagged horror. Watch the green bubbles. Also, stand near a guard being attacked by a mob. It’s buggy, but most of the time you get lifeforce from the friendly guard dying.

Again i have tested this 3 times now to make sure, no minions give you life froce when thay die. Not even jagged horrors. I’ll have to test the guard thing later.

Hmm… I just know Jagged Horrors can raise up to 5 max. From my experience, after I killed a mob, he pop up, then when I started to kill another mob, he died. Then after that mob died, he pop up again. I hope we can get another useful but minor trait instead of Jagged Horrors

Dead matrix.2670:

@skliros. If that was true when i make 2 bone minions with 0% life force, and blow them up, you would get some % of life force !!! you dont . Try it for your self .

that’s probably because the putrid explosion doesn’t count as a death. It doesn’t trigger death nova either.

In GW1 you gain Energy from all deaths, but I think that in GW2 only enemy deaths give you Life Force.

Either way the Jagged Horrors sure need a buff.
Or maybe give us an another minor trait (like out of combat regen for all minions), and make the current one a part of Death Nova.

Dictan.4186:

jagged horror amounts to nothing more than a vanity pet. it hard enough to look at useless traits like 5% power becomes healing power, but to be the only profession that spawns a useless vanity pet as a trait is saddening.

How about health regeneration when you have 90% health trait?

Seriously that might even be more useless than summoning this jagged horror.

I had my doubts about the regen trait but it does constistently provide the boon for 10 – 12 seconds before falling off every 30 seconds when your at 90% or more. thats around 1-2k healing depending on heal power. it isn’t the best but it is nowhere as useless as the jagged horror trait.

Am I the only one that things the jagged horrors should spawn where the enemy died? I mean if you’re in that trait line you’re probably using a staff and staying ranged. It would be far better if the jagged horror spawned at the enemy location so the thing doesn’t have to travel. This impacts WvW the most since if I’m AOEing on top of or below a wall, I don’t want the horror to spawn at my location since he can’t get to the enemies.

Personally, I think the trait needs to go. All I want is the staff/mark skills, not more pets. I don’t see why pets need to be forced when the trait line covers 2 different things. Make it a trait that benefits both MM and staff users without forcing one on the other. I’d go deeper into that trait tree but I get 2 absolutely useless minor traits(jagged horror and more damage based on minion count)

the minor trait actually adds 20 toughness per minion which is counter intuitive to the whole idea of minions seeing as half your minions and meant to be blown up, while the other half aren’t meant to stay much longer. meaning you have a constantly fluxing trait that doesn’t give you a substantial buff to begin with.

I think that the jagged horrors need to tweaked, at least enough to make them viable in combat. They cannot even move from one fight to the other.

As for the voice over thing. I like it, but can see how it could be annoying, maybe an option to turn off in combat VO’s would help.

If allies dying gave you life force it would be an incentive against helping them not die. Which would run counter to the game’s design manifesto.

I agree this is somewhat a poor skill, but for 5 points in a skill tree, it’s not useless.

It does have synergy within the wonky tree, such as each minion providing more toughness and death nova reliably activating every 30sec.

Problems are they often die without even contributing because of poor pet AI system. Or they degenerate too fast in between battles. May prove useless in 1v1 situations.

I think there are a couple of good ideas in this thread so far. Such as those reducing the self-destruction time, or it only degenerates when hit or allowing more Jagged horrors to rise.

My ideas:
- They can spawn from the death of your pets/ally as well
- They apply their own condition on each hit, such as a 10% slow
- They spawn during battle depending on specific skills or when your other pets hit
- When they die, they heal your pets
- They latch onto enemy targets, guaranteeing an attack/condition

Quite an endless stream of ideas really, I could come up with more, but the concept of a expendable pet is great. Just a little bit more!

Mirar.1087:

I agree this is somewhat a poor skill, but for 5 points in a skill tree, it’s not useless.

It does have synergy within the wonky tree, such as each minion providing more toughness and death nova reliably activating every 30sec.

Problems are they often die without even contributing because of poor pet AI system. Or they degenerate too fast in between battles. [They] prove useless in 1v1 situations.

I think there are a couple of good ideas in this thread so far. Such as those reducing the self-destruction time, or it only degenerates when hit or allowing more Jagged horrors to rise.

My ideas:
- They can spawn from the death of your pets/ally as well
. . .

I really like this suggestion. It’s very reminiscent of the old GW1 jagged horror elite skill, and would have a lot of synergy with MMs.

I think jagged horrors were broken by overbalancing which happens to a lot of MMOs when they first start out. During the beta I was able to have about 10 minions at one time and would just destroy things but people probably complained that necro pets were too powerful so not only did they lower their damage the also lowered their defense/life and the Jagged horrors got the brunt of it. I don’t know who had the bright idea of adding the bleed condition to the horror but it needs to be removed, if they at least removed that then we could see what else is wrong with them.

I know a lot of people complain about the lack of regen on the the necro pets, but I understand why the pets don’t regen. Instead of adding in a regen they need the ability to feast on the dead enemies to regenerate the health. Not only would this help satisfy the need for healing pets it would also make the necro feel more like a necro since it is currently lacking any moves that use the dead besides the jagged horrors which are broken. And to add on to that there should also be global buttons, Aggressive/Passive, for the pets to stop them from attacking random mobs while exploring.