Just wondering.
We have a ton of bugs. We still have a clunky class mechanic. We don’t have many good traits or good build/trait variety, or that many fun traits. We usually only have about 3 builds for the most part.
I’m mainly dissapointed because I’ve been waiting for them to spruce the class up so it’s more fun. Fixing bugs is just the cherry on top, we haven’t even gotten much of that.
It’s just, dissapointing. We’re playable, and effective, but still.
Most boring class and least flexible.
Les flexible than the warrior in fact and he only has one skill to his F-buttons. But he can switch that one with weapons, and that’s the infuriating part about necros! We can’t switch our mechanic-skills!
Now from what I had read I heard that the necro may have a few bugs affecting the way they play.
I stopped reading after this line.
May? Seriously?
You played a necro to 80 and didn’t run into bugs?
Did you spam staff #1 all the way to 80?
I must stop before I get infracted.
Still can’t believe a necro player believes we MAY have some bugs.
I think it may be time for the OP to peruse the stickied thread in these Necro Forums. The one entitled “Necromancer bugs compilation”
Ignicity – 80 Necromancer
Unreal Aussies [uA] – Isle of Janthir
Try going full Minion Master… (-.-)
Theoretical build – MM/Reaper (WIP): http://goo.gl/0Drlka
Ignicity dont be surprised. generally players only do PvE dont care or dont see bugs because PvE is so easy mobs die so quick that they think everything is ok. when i say on my guild that necros were full of major bugmost of necros say: " hmm…i didnt notice anything, please give an example of a bug" and in 20s i explain like 5-7 bugs. dont be surprised people play necro on pve where they are great (pve anything is fine) and than came here and make post like this.
elementalist power staff is amazing to farm lvl80 DE and rare materials but is a crap on tournaments so im sure if i go to elementalist topics i wil see lot of guys saying dont understand why people complain about elementalist
after read all the OP post i only can think he play another class. only a few bugs (well may have a few bugs LOL), we have 3 Life bars ( ???). obvious this guy only do PvE and on dungeons necros are amazing if they are good necros (a necro that will use same weapons/ utility on all dungeons is a bad necro)
(edited by possante.8310)
From a PvP standpoint i gurantee you that our bugs are quite capable of sucking the fun right out of you, especially when you run into them for the first time. People do get tired by having to build around glitches and maybes after a while.
You played a necro to 80 and didn’t run into bugs?
Did you spam staff #1 all the way to 80?
Lol even staff #1 has had and still has bugs.
You played a necro to 80 and didn’t run into bugs?
Did you spam staff #1 all the way to 80?Lol even staff #1 has had and still has bugs.
It’s hard to single out a necro power that hasn’t had bugs.
Love your sig btw. Thinking of changing mine to something similar.
Ignicity – 80 Necromancer
Unreal Aussies [uA] – Isle of Janthir
I disagree with a lot of the things said in this thread.
No good/fun traits
Ritual of Protection in Death Magic line: Give 3 seconds of protection on well cast. This gives protection to all allies in the well radius. With 2-3 wells on your bar and the well CD reduction trait you are better than a guardian at spreading around protection.
Chill of Death in Spite line: Free boon removal and slow when someone is low. So even if they popped swiftness to run away, your conditions will tick them below 25% as they run, then remove the swiftness and slow them. Pretty awesome IMO.
Banshee’s Wail in Curses line: Gives warhorn CD reduction and increases the duration of the effects. With this trait and Spectral Walk you have 100% swiftness uptime. Also the daze goes from 2s every 30s (6% of the fight) to 3s every 25s (12% of the fight). On an AoE daze!!! That is RIDICULOUS.
Foot in the Grave and Near to Death in Soul Reaping line: If you take Foot in the Grave, with the boon duration increase of the Death Magic line (or other +boon duration stuff from armor), you have 4 seconds of stability EVERY TEN SECONDS. That’s 40% stability uptime. You can switch in and out of DS quickly, then down someone no sweat. Alternatively, if you take Near to Death, with other traits you can get 3 seconds of Retaliation, 1 condition removed, and Enfeebling Blood (bleeds and Weakness) cast around you every 5 seconds (though EB has a cooldown). That’s over 60% Retaliation uptime with +boon duration, no other class has that except maybe guardians but I think they were getting that nerfed.
Only 3 builds
Admittedly sPvP builds for necros are limited at the moment, but I’ve found tons of good builds for dungeons, PvE and WvW. You can go all Soul Reaping and Curses, sit in DS in large groups, and spam Life Blast for huge critical damage. You can go crit and daggers for huge life siphoning in the Blood Magic line, or make it more supportive by putting traits in Wells and Staff CD/marks. There’s always minion master, too (though the AI of the minions leaves something to be desired) and even then you have like 20 or 30 points to play around with depending on your playstyle. That’s like 4-5 builds right off the top of my head and I’ve experimented with all of them.
Most boring
No way are necros the most boring class. I have a blast playing as necro. Raining down conditions on players attacking the door of a keep or tower, then spreading those conditions to everyone nearby is amazing – the screen fills with little white numbers. Nothing decimates zerg like a condition necro. I’m having lots of fun trying to make a melee-focused siphon build viable, and I’ve had pretty good success in WvW and PvE so far. Nothing gets away from a dagger/warhorn necro.
Yes, there are lots of bugs, but I’m gonna stick with the class for the long term. I’m so glad I chose it at the start. Things can only get better from here (however slowly).
(edited by lettucemode.3789)
I disagree with a lot of the things said in this thread.
No good/fun traits
Ritual of Protection in Death Magic line: Give 3 seconds of protection on well cast. This gives protection to all allies in the well radius. With 2-3 wells on your bar and the well CD reduction trait you are better than a guardian at spreading around protection.Chill of Death in Spite line: Free boon removal and slow when someone is low. So even if they popped swiftness to run away, your conditions will tick them below 25% as they run, then remove the swiftness and slow them. Pretty awesome IMO.
Banshee’s Wail in Curses line: Gives warhorn CD reduction and increases the duration of the effects. With this trait and Spectral Walk you have 100% swiftness uptime. Also the daze goes from 2s every 30s (6% of the fight) to 3s every 25s (12% of the fight). On an AoE daze!!! That is RIDICULOUS.
Foot in the Grave and Near to Death in Soul Reaping line: If you take Foot in the Grave, with the boon duration increase of the Death Magic line (or other +boon duration stuff from armor), you have 4 seconds of stability EVERY TEN SECONDS. That’s 40% stability uptime. You can switch in and out of DS quickly, then down someone no sweat. Alternatively, if you take Near to Death, with other traits you can get 3 seconds of Retaliation, 1 condition removed, and Enfeebling Blood (bleeds and Weakness) cast around you every 5 seconds (though EB has a cooldown). That’s over 60% Retaliation uptime with +boon duration, no other class has that except maybe guardians but I think they were getting that nerfed.
Only 3 builds
Admittedly sPvP builds for necros are limited at the moment, but I’ve found tons of good builds for dungeons, PvE and WvW. You can go all Soul Reaping and Curses, sit in DS in large groups, and spam Life Blast for huge critical damage. You can go crit and daggers for huge life siphoning in the Blood Magic line, or make it more supportive by putting traits in Wells and Staff CD/marks. There’s always minion master, too (though the AI of the minions leaves something to be desired) and even then you have like 20 or 30 points to play around with depending on your playstyle. That’s like 4-5 builds right off the top of my head and I’ve experimented with all of them.Most boring
No way are necros the most boring class. I have a blast playing as necro. Raining down conditions on players attacking the door of a keep or tower, then spreading those conditions to everyone nearby is amazing – the screen fills with little white numbers. Nothing decimates zerg like a condition necro. I’m having lots of fun trying to make a melee-focused siphon build viable, and I’ve had pretty good success in WvW and PvE so far. Nothing gets away from a dagger/warhorn necro.Yes, there are lots of bugs, but I’m gonna stick with the class for the long term. I’m so glad I chose it at the start. Things can only get better from here (however slowly).
This is definately reaching.
Now go compare it to other classes will you?
Our traits are severely lacking.
What’s all this talk about three builds? Since when did we get a third viable build?
The problem with necromancer is that another class can do it better. Whether it’s conditions or (and especially) direct damage — it’s always a better choice to take class X over necromancer. This has been the problem since the get-go and it remains such.
This is definately reaching.
Now go compare it to other classes will you?
Our traits are severely lacking.
How is it reaching? How are all the things I listed worse than all other classes? What exactly about our traits is lacking?
This is what I hate about debates on the internet. Are you going to actually respond to what I said or just hand-wave it?
Terok, what other class is better than a necro at conditions? Epidemic, Corrupt Boon, Plague Signet…all among the best condition spells in the game.
(edited by lettucemode.3789)
Go play all the other professions and then compare, you will see how much Necro’s lack in comparison in terms of traits.
I’ve been playing all the proffessions and experimenting with builds since beta, Necro’s build variety is awful and the traits are so uninspired overall. There’s a couple neat ones but not nearly enough.
Go look at all the builds and combo’s a Mesmer can make for example.
Epidemic is a great spell, that’s like the only good thing we have. It doesn’t make us better at condition builds, it makes us better at spreading conditions. Ironically Epidemic would be more effective on another proffession using a condition build because we AREN’T the best condition spamming prof.
it could be worse than other classes but it doesn’t mean it can’t beat other class.
but well there is a reason why sports have Star players and Normal players though.
it could be worse than other classes but it doesn’t mean it can’t beat other class.
but well there is a reason why sports have Star players and Normal players though.
What are you talking about. It’s not even about pvp and how balanced we are. Build variety being awful just makes it alot less fun to play.
then feel free to reroll. i wouldn’t play if its not fun for me neither
but it’s fine for me
Don’t worry, many necro’s have already. =p
Necro is my chosen “main” however, and I’m going to continue voicing my opinion and offering suggestions and asking for changes until it happens.
Some of us don’t settle for mediocrity, and we’ve been waiting 2-3 months for some actual Necro changes. Excuse us for being a little frustrated.
So then what’s wrong with Necromancers being the best at spreading conditions rather than applying conditions? Seems like with good teamwork, a Necro + Mesmer combination could be brutal.
When you say that there are only a few good necro builds, are you referring to sPvP only, or everything? I’ve had some good fun and success with the builds I mentioned above, but I agree that sPvP builds are limited.
(edited by lettucemode.3789)
Ok list of issues, the biggest being the traits, minions as a whole, and our builds.
We have so many horrible traits. Lets start with the horrors, in pvp they can res players if they kill them, in pve arah instance they can get the group killed, and in most cases unless summoned via lich they die before even finding a target. Most our our traits we wont use because they are worthless for our builds right now, and lastly most traits have bugs in them. We have traits that do not add condition damage to our skills like they should when they say they do, our fears do not last as long a thief who steals it from us. We also have traits that say they increase life force reward but doesn’t add it all of it like it should. Also in order to be a good power or condition build you have to spend you trait points in both Curses for precision and condition damage, then in Spite for power and condition duration. Why is setup like that in the first place I do not know so it forces into a hybrid build regardless.
Minions have one of the worst AIs ive seen in 10 years of gaming. They often run off on there own and aggro mobs you are not even fighting, my golem has pulled more mobs for me then i even desire to see. We have no way to focus them on 1 target or putt them on passive, they die from aoes very quickly even when you try to keep them healed up with wells and life steals the die. Sometimes they stand around and dont do anything while your being attacked or attacking. Horrors again die before they find a target most times, death nova cancels the bone minion explosion damage for a very small poison damage. Yeah good times with that, and the worm poison damage doesn’t actually hurt anything when you make it explode, the numbers mean nothing.
Now our builds we have a very good bunker build for PVP i cannot deny that since we can have huge life pools thanks to our health and then DS for even more, the wells make it hard for them keep conditions on us and we can even perma blind most melee to annoy them. The bunker build is very good but lets go to our conditionmancer. This is also a good build but we can only stack bleeds and poisons and our poisons do not last that long or hit that hard, now we can get to like 2k bleeds with food and other things so with epidemic we can easily spread those every 10 seconds but that is great and all but that is it really all the good skills for conditions we have. Our Power build is also pretty fun with our two wells that actually do good damage, and blood is power helps alot but finding a good balance between Spite, curses and Soul reaping is kinda a challenge with how our traits are split right now.
Now I love my necro but thieves, engineers, and Mesmer out shine us by far with damage, conditions builds, and traits over all since and they are just more interesting to traits for the builds. I have a 80 necro, thief, engineer, guardian and am working on my Mesmer now.
(edited by gamefreak.5673)
OK, cool, thanks for the write up. I know what you mean with the trait lines, there are some really tough choices to make between spite and curses.
You won’t see how necro is kittened, until you play another class to 80.
I thought my engineer was lacking in some aspect, but since I leveled my necro, man my engineer was so much better. Versatile, burst damage and a lot of CC. Less bug too, and funnier/more useful traits.
Some traits doesn’t even seem to belong in the branch. Some like jagged horror are more annoying then useful.
I love the necro, I love the underdog and underplayed class. That’s why I play him.
But at least, remove the bug. I don’t mind being less powerful then other class, at least we won’t be FOTM. But having bugs is annoying as hell.
Server : Anvil Rock (Since Release!) [SOLO]
And let’s not forget how many combo options we have. I am trying to run a power build and that means I have exactly 1 combo finisher – underwater whirl.
(edited by Nyorai.1630)
@lettucemode.3789:
Ok lets set some of your misinformation straight here, Firstly, getting 9 – 12 seconds of protection on a 48 second CD is hardly 100% protection up time. Also speaking from a player who has a lv 80 necro, guardian, warrior and engi, i can tell you first hand a necro will never be able to give the group protection for as long as a guardian. Simply spec hammer, increase symbol duration and hold the line will always be better. But this is a dumb argument because in both cases in requires the ally to stand inside the circle, which outside of Tpvp is dumb.
Secondly if i am using spectral walk + warhorn just for swiftness, i have basically eliminated 1 utility and 1 of-hand weapon to use solely for mobility purposes. Having a guardian i am used to being slow (They have the same lack of decent mobility because symbol of swiftness is buggy) but the necro needs those utility slots to even compete with other classes. Sure a thief has to give up 1 utility slot for run speed as well but in exchange they get a much better trait layout, better damage, better survivability etc….
Thirdly DS dancing is less effective because of the CD of the skills associated with switching. Enfeebling blood as an example won’t fire every 5 seconds. This is easy to test, simply go into Mist and try it.
Fourthly, I as a guardian I can STILL (After nerf) have 100% ret uptime, which is a lot better then your 60%. And also my Guardian doesn’t have to sacrifice alot to do it.
Fifthly, I have a feeling you haven’t tried the Life siphon spec in anything besides random Spvp. In the real world it is extremely underpowered and you basically become cannon fodder.
Sixthly, My conditionmancer cannot decimate a zerg Nearly as much as my grenade specced Engi, + he has 100% regen and swiftness uptime + full condition cleanse, roots knockback etc…
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
You want to know why so many people are complain able the necro?
Conditionmancer are only good vs targets who also apply some type of condition. Let me give you an example. Lets say my conditionmancer fights vs my guardian. As it stands my guardian autoremoves 2 conditions every 10s. Next, if i put down a symbol and use GS number 2 or 5 i also remove a condition, and also my three utilitys that are on 48s, 28s, and 24s CD convert 1 condition into a boon. So my necro only has access to basically 4 different types of conditions. 90% of his damage comes from bleeds which can be completely cleared by any 1 of the skills i just listed above. So it would take my necro probably over 25 seconds to just get a decent amount of bleeds stacked on my guardian to make him die. Next, you say necros can convert boons to conditions! (true you can) but that skill is heavily bugged and doesn’t work more then 50% of the time (might be stretching that a bit) But if the necro takes that utility and takes SW for swiftness, he is sitting at 1 utility slot. If you pick epidemic then no Stun Break (DS is not a kitten Stun Breaker) If you get a stun breaker then no epidemic.
Where as my guardians build is the same vs every class i fight. Simple, easy yet extremely strong.
lets continue shall we.
Next lets look at how the weapon skills are better for half of the classes out there. Do you realize if you a necro specced into condition, using staff and scepter + dagger (which is one of the best weapon setups for conditionmancers) that 1/4 of the skills on your weapon lineup need power to be effective? Look at the staff, if you go condition then the #1 skill is extremely underwhelming, likewise if you go power #2 is underwhelming. My guardians weapons skills are all extremely powerful and work no matter what build i have.
If you want to keep playing your necros, please do so but just realize that unless you an extremely skilled gamer you are going to have a hard uphill battle. And if you are that skilled, you could easily switch professions and make youtube videos worth watching.
I agree with what Will said. I play necro cause its my main and I always wanted a minion class in games. Unfortunately minions are broken but I’m still playing it in hopes of it not being broken later on.
Currently I play conditionmancer as it sadly enough is the best thing we’re good at. Condition control, no other classes matches us in that, so it pidgeon holes us into the build.
The best abilities for us atm are:
Corrupt Boon (this is almost essential vesus guardians/elementalist/engineers)
Epidemic (only IF your team has enough conditions to spread, you yourself apply conditions so slowly itll fall off by the time epidemic is used)
Well of Darkness (5 seconds of near immunity to melee, if they have quickness they’ll actually attack so fast itll go through blindness)
Plague (20 seconds of blind, 20 seconds of poison, stability and instant cast) this is basically when you got 1-2 burst classes wailing on you and you need time to breathe. Lich form is underwhelming. The 1 is damaging as hell, however you can easily be corrupted (lose stability), the toughness and vitlaity boost are not as good as plague and can be MOA’d easier than plague, as the blinds can make the moa miss.
Consume Conditions is almost mandatory in sPvP. A complete condition removal on a heal is very good. Only 1-2 other classes have it, and ours is the lowest CD at 25 seconds. The Well of Blood CD is too long and requires staying in the circle the whole time for full benefit.
Also the best necro weapon in the game is the Staff. It does everything. Bleeds, poison, chill, Condition transfer and an AOE CC. Marks do not need a target to cast can be used versus stealthed characters, made unblockable, its pretty much the best thing we got. But look at it carefully, the Staff 2 the lowest CD mark for staff is PRIMARILY a condition. The base damage is pitiful for power. Yet the staff 4 is power based and can easily do 1k-3k damage. If they boosted the base damage of staff 2 you could use it in power builds.