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Posted by: laokoko.7403

laokoko.7403

Please Anet, I’m in a very casual laid back guild.

And this thing have been going on for a while. People simply dont’ accept necro in a guild dungeon group.

And people are not even doing hardcore speed run. Just laid back casual runs.

Will necro be buffed so it’ll be accepted in groups?

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

Please Anet, I’m in a very casual laid back guild.

And this thing have been going on for a while. People simply dont’ accept necro in a guild dungeon group.

And people are not even doing hardcore speed run. Just laid back casual runs.

Will necro be buffed so it’ll be accepted in groups?

while necro is not optimal, it is more than capable of being useful in any dungeon. This is mostly a perception issue.

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Posted by: piano man.1672

piano man.1672

People who want to run dungeons as fast as possible may not take Necro’s because they feel it does not bring as much to the table as other classes do, as far as group support goes.

But I don’t have any issues running in casual pick up groups with my Necromancer. Just because they don’t bring a lot of group support, doesn’t mean they’re horrid in dungeons. I think a lot of people have this in the back of their heads, and even in casual runs they may remember this and kick.

It’s very frustrating to pick a class, level it to 80, and then be kicked from every dungeon group. It’s not right.

Looking over some of the Reaper skills and traits, it would be very easy to change them to apply to allies as well. Not sure why they didn’t do this, but it’d be great if they did.

Kharros 80 Warr | Dead on Revival 80 Necro | Yoxx 80 Guard | Khoton 80 Thief | Thera Majere 80 Ele

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

People say necro doesnt have to be up there with the optimal classes for dungeons because unless youre speedclearing, people only need viable builds/classes. What they don’t realise is that necro’s are complaining about be shunted from almost all lfg dungeon partys.

This is because scrubby pugs dont read into all the information provided by dungeon theorycrafters, they simply look at what are the ‘best’ classes to have for dungeons regardless of if they are doing a casual run and then spew comments like the optimal classes are picked because they bring the most damage.

That is why people want necros to be improved in the dungeon scene.

Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia

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Posted by: LKFaerie.2534

LKFaerie.2534

I understand the problems behind the issue are real, but the solution is so incredibly simple that i have no real sympathy.

Make your own groups.

That’s it. Start a group, label it “all welcome” and have fun. You cant change necros, and you cant change other people, that just leaves you. stop trying to join groups that don’t want you, and make your own group.

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Posted by: laokoko.7403

laokoko.7403

Make your own groups.

well, people always say if you don’t like pug, run with your guild.

I think it start being a problem when even casual guild runs dont’ even allow necro in a group.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Yeah when you try pugging as a necro people will often discriminate against you, even if you’re playing the meta build for pve for necro, but they say nothing about the mesmer GS autoattacking in point blank range.

Double standards suck. If a girl wears a sports bra she’s working out, but if a guy wears one to class, he’s just fat.

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..

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Posted by: zapv.8051

zapv.8051

Robert Gee stated, correctly I might add, that reaper is not supposed to fix the problems with the base class. They are working on that through other traitlines. Having said that, I think reapers will be pretty strong in runs. They will be bringing blinds, cripple, chill, boon removal and perma 25 vuln with quick build up (focus 4 then gs 3 is 24 vuln). Along with this, they will be able to have 100% crit chance, huge tankiness and 25 might with no help, while having more aoe than any other class (wells, huge cleaving skills, marks pre-pull, warhorn 5 pre pull). The skills also look like they hit pretty hard, maybe not staff ele levels, but hopefully harder than most other classes.

On top of this, it would be nice if the vampiric aura was a good dps increase and there was some aoe condition removal added to blood magic. Maybe a ferocity increasing buff similar to spotter somewhere (preferably in spite, but would fit in curses where reaper’s precision is), and projectile reflect or destruction on something like every other class has (corrosive poison cloud, or spectral wall). Even without that though, reapers look pretty strong for dungeons if not quite speed run levels (assuming the damage is good and the good traits don’t get messed up).

Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.

(edited by zapv.8051)

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Posted by: Blix.8021

Blix.8021

there is no dungeon in this game that you can’t do with 5 necros in the party, don’t join bad guilds with bad players

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Posted by: Andraus.3874

Andraus.3874

Dude sorry necros are basically zombies and kinda freaky. Please stay away.

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Posted by: Dante.1763

Dante.1763

Heh, i take my necro into dungeons for teaching paths to new players Why? My toughness and condition damage(I really only use it dungeons that arent full of blasted Structures) lets me solo most of the bosses, if i need to. It takes awhile, but i can do it.

The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.

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Posted by: Alkalissa.1706

Alkalissa.1706

A good guild that’s actually laid back and casual and not devoted to max dps speedruns shouldn’t be worried about what classes they take with them… If you’re feeling left out, maybe have a chat to your guild leader about it?

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Posted by: Raif.9507

Raif.9507

Are you fearing mobs out of melee range? Are you messing with the location/placement of bosses by using fear? If so, it might not be the necro class that’s an issue for you.

I personally don’t care what class people bring so long as they don’t use knockbacks./fears willy nilly and make the mob run around all over the place. Meta is only desired when you want speed runs… even then my guild and I barely care.

Find better people to run with.

Asharìa March – 80 Elementalist
Co-Guild Leader of Prime Defense on Sanctum of Rall – www.Primedefense.net

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

There is a big differnece between the necro with the axe/warhorn and staff and the dungeon spec necro

I get kicked from zerk -meta- ruuns and am invites and asked If I’d pls stay in speedruns…

Don’t worry, most ppl do not know what they are talking about. with the release of attribute points support necro and pure dps necro’s will both be viable. Vampiric traits are very powerfull to keep you alive, especially vs big groups, and with the now suggester vampiric for all you might become a very worthwhile part of the meta, in any case the chills, vulnerability, blinds and other conditions will help you a long way in the DPS struggle.

Max DPS =/= best or fastest. Max DPS meta = useless comparision information tbh…
When fighting a melee enemy a repeated blindness (well of darkness) will make sure you have several seonds of uninteruptable DPS, noone will lose health, stacks and be CC-ed if they cannot hit you right? Other wells may help for AOE healing, vulnerability, and boon stripping and damage….

when we no longer have to rely on dagger for DPS and get a sword with true cleaves and other melee opportunities we seem to be good to go…

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

Well I only run a few low level fractals every now and then with my power necro, but I haven’t had any issues.

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

It all boils down to how good Vamp Aura is.

The only reason necros get groups now, is because a lot of the content can be done with one player afk. Anything that has a level of complexity, difficulty or is unknown, and players would rather have anything but a necro.

A mesmer can do just as much condi damage as a necro, while clearing conditions and pumping out a 3k aoe heal every 3 or 4 seconds.

A good class in this game, makes other people’s characters feel stronger, and the necro never does that.

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

Most content can be done by experienced ppl in in blue or green gear as long as sigils and traits are good, losing only a little bit of time. This time lost is due to max dmg of bvlues and greens being 10-20% lower then the dmg of ascneded/exotic gear. when you are able to kill a boss in 8 seconds atm ppl in green gear will do so in 9.5 seconds, maybe 10….

The actual proffessions shouldn’t matter too much either as long as you have 1 or 2 reflects 1 or 2 aoe blindness… you’ll be facerolling most dungeons except maybe CoE, HotW and Arah… I see people complaining well you bring nothing to the party,

and they add warrior has banners and empower allies, guardians have strength in numbers (NOBODY uses strength in numbers in meta), rangers have spotter (most rangers are kicked ASAP, like necro’s) and they form a party only to show: NO FOOD NO UTILITY and most of the time no dungeon gear… losing 100 power, 70 precision and 33% dmg modifier and 10% dmg reduction and STILL they do not see the error…

The necro will be effective. and they would be as well if they could understand…

Remember this.

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

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Posted by: Darwec.3784

Darwec.3784

The actual proffessions shouldn’t matter too much either as long as you have 1 or 2 reflects 1 or 2 aoe blindness… you’ll be facerolling most dungeons except maybe CoE, HotW and Arah… I see people complaining well you bring nothing to the party,

and they add warrior has banners and empower allies, guardians have strength in numbers (NOBODY uses strength in numbers in meta), rangers have spotter (most rangers are kicked ASAP, like necro’s) and they form a party only to show: NO FOOD NO UTILITY and most of the time no dungeon gear… losing 100 power, 70 precision and 33% dmg modifier and 10% dmg reduction and STILL they do not see the error…

See thats the problem. If you’re running with a good group who has dungeon gear and the right traits (which I do) you have a thief who brings blind fields and stealth. You have An ele or two who brings better blinds, better chill, fire fields, blast finishers, ice bows, and more damage than necros. Guardians bring reflects and agis and other tools. Warriors have banners, might sharing, etc.

And more over, and more importantly, all those classes can and should be switching off utilites throughout the dungeon. So you switch on thief between your power signet, sr, and your blind field frequently.

Necros either dont have that option, or their options are sup bar. I can switch my power signet off for well of darkness, but thievs and glyph of storms in earth on ele is better than well of darkness. I cant provide any useful fields. I cant provide blasts.

Every other class can situationally switch between skills as needed so they can switch from doing optimal DPS to helping the party out with strategic purposes. Necros only usefulness in dungeons is them doing their opt dps. MAYBE bringing a blind field. With reaper, it will be a choice between opt DPS (while doing vuln) or blind (while doing vuln) But thats still only 2 utilites that other classes already do well. Like i can be the perfect necro, doing my most DPS, swapping to what little party support i have when i need to. But necros do very few things, and it doesnt do any of those few things better than other classes. If you’re a good player and you’re in a good group, the difference is huge. If you’re a bad player, or you’re group is dropping the ball, it doesnt matter anyways and the discussion is pointless.

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

Please Anet, I’m in a very casual laid back guild.

And this thing have been going on for a while. People simply dont’ accept necro in a guild dungeon group.

And people are not even doing hardcore speed run. Just laid back casual runs.

Will necro be buffed so it’ll be accepted in groups?

Change the guild then. Must be a kittenty one.

[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144

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Posted by: Vizardlorde.8243

Vizardlorde.8243

Definitly doesnt sound casual.

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Posted by: Shiki.7148

Shiki.7148

I understand the problems behind the issue are real, but the solution is so incredibly simple that i have no real sympathy.

Make your own groups.

That’s it. Start a group, label it “all welcome” and have fun. You cant change necros, and you cant change other people, that just leaves you. stop trying to join groups that don’t want you, and make your own group.

Actually, since they have abolished the “group leader” system, there have been cases where you were kicked from your own group. Had it happen to me once when trying to get a group for Arah. 4 People joined, then one guy was like “lol Necro so kitten in dungeons, lets kick” and out I was… But yeah, usually it works.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140

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Posted by: ODB.6891

ODB.6891

there is no dungeon in this game that you can’t do with 5 necros in the party, don’t join bad guilds with bad players

By that logic, you can clear any dungeon in the game with 5 characters with no armor equipped…does that make guilds and players bad for not wanting to take players with no armor equipped into their runs? This logic is just bad and defeatist before even allowing any thought to be put into a real solution. There is no reasonable/valid justification for intentionally keeping necromancers/reapers on such an uneven footing with other professions in regards to group utility. The only justification even attempted so far (by both players and developers) is flavor/theme. Its just bad design when your flavor/theme directly conflicts with function/design.

Just even out this disparity already so necromancers/reapers can also enjoy instanced group content without having to deal with the miserable experience of getting kicked for simply playing a necromancer/reaper. Its not going to break the game to allow some decent party utility for necromancers/reapers. Allow utilities while shrouded, throw some reflect onto spectral wall and change the fear to a tremble effect if traited/reaper. I think these three changes alone would be enough to break the stigma in dungeon desirability.

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Posted by: Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

The problem is the dungeons and PvE end game, in general.

Necromancer is unwanted for a reason. Dungeons reward boons and mobility but it also punishes conditions so Necromancer is doubly cursed. Experienced players know this.

1 Necromancer cannot stack Might.
2 Bosses do not have boon hate.
3 Bosses do have condition hate.
4 Necromancer has no stealth or OOC mobility.

It is that simple.

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Posted by: ODB.6891

ODB.6891

A good guild that’s actually laid back and casual and not devoted to max dps speedruns shouldn’t be worried about what classes they take with them… If you’re feeling left out, maybe have a chat to your guild leader about it?

The expectation for necromancers to have to search extra hard to find a group/guild to accept them, in spite of their profession choice, sounds like a problem to me.

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Posted by: ODB.6891

ODB.6891

The problem is the dungeons and PvE end game, in general.

Necromancer is unwanted for a reason. Dungeons reward boons and mobility but it also punishes conditions so Necromancer is doubly cursed. Experienced players know this.

1 Necromancer cannot stack Might.
2 Bosses do not have boon hate.
3 Bosses do have condition hate.
4 Necromancer has no stealth or OOC mobility.

It is that simple.

What’s sad is that they very easily could stack might with the spite traits…if only they were shared with the party instead of necro only…small tweak…huge perception shift.

I’d also add that active defenses are an issue as well. Mutual exclusion of being able to use active defense utilities or use DS/RS concurrently is a sore spot for me. They need to drop these flavor/theme handicaps and allow the necromancer/reaper to be functional.

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Posted by: Gryph.8237

Gryph.8237

The problem is the dungeons and PvE end game, in general.

Necromancer is unwanted for a reason. Dungeons reward boons and mobility but it also punishes conditions so Necromancer is doubly cursed. Experienced players know this.

1 Necromancer cannot stack Might.
2 Bosses do not have boon hate.
3 Bosses do have condition hate.
4 Necromancer has no stealth or OOC mobility.

It is that simple.

This. The same thing that limits us in pvp, is the same thing that limits us in group oriented pve. There is nothing we bring to the group that is not brought by another class, AND THEN add in damage, sustainability, group buffs, and control. The necro brings… dmg. DMG is not enough in a meta, when a class can bring dmg, plus buffs, plus cc, plus control, + innate survivability through mobility.

“we want the necro to be hard hitting. His attacks will be slow, but they will show the weight behind the attacks.” (Paraphrase).

Was this a joke? hahahah…. this means, we will continue to have random spike ability (when the stars align and everything goes perfect), but no sustainability, especially when coupled with the fact that NONE OF OUR ATTACKS HIT HARDER THAN ANY OTHER ATTACK IN THE GAME. I swear, do they think we are stupid. Look at the dmg coefficients. They are lower than ever class with a gs, coupled with the fact that… WE HIT SLOWER. hahaha. I hear people saying, yeah, reapers will be awesome in wvw? When? in 1 v 1s/ nope? Think chill is going to be amazing in wvw zergs when people fart cleanses? haha

Slow attacking, slow cast times, slow everything means, enemy dodges, gets away, resets, clears, comes back when your long kitten cool downs are still counting down while they are reset, full health, full skilled. we will get crushed, because sustain will not be there.

(edited by Gryph.8237)

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Posted by: Aenesthesia.1697

Aenesthesia.1697

I understand the problems behind the issue are real, but the solution is so incredibly simple that i have no real sympathy.

Make your own groups.

That’s it. Start a group, label it “all welcome” and have fun. You cant change necros, and you cant change other people, that just leaves you. stop trying to join groups that don’t want you, and make your own group.

Your simple solution doesnt work very well. Many people will not join the group if there is a necro in it.

Last week we completed ascalon catacombs p1 while waiting for someone to join our group with one necro in it. We were looking for a full run group, all welcome, and still….

I think it’s unfair that a profession is so uterly oblivious of this game’s mechanics to the point of being unwanted in group content. We necro players deserve some attention from the devs!

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

I understand the problems behind the issue are real, but the solution is so incredibly simple that i have no real sympathy.

Make your own groups.

That’s it. Start a group, label it “all welcome” and have fun. You cant change necros, and you cant change other people, that just leaves you. stop trying to join groups that don’t want you, and make your own group.

This unfortunately no longer works. I tried making a group for CM with my necro. Watched 5 other groups start and finish forming while I had not got a single member. Eventually gave up and switched to my ele. Had a full group in 15 seconds.

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Posted by: Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

Try starting a Necro and Mesmer only group and add “No skipping” in the description.

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Posted by: Vizardlorde.8243

Vizardlorde.8243

All welcome implies underlevels and people who dont know wtf they are doing. Only NICE decently skilled players join those the rest avoid them like the plague. If anything make it lvl 80 experienced only and youll have better luck filling up the grp despite having a necro or 2. My guild and I do full necro runs of AC from time to time and the time is not bad usually like ~20 mins except p2 where someone switches at last boss for reflects.

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Posted by: ODB.6891

ODB.6891

I understand the problems behind the issue are real, but the solution is so incredibly simple that i have no real sympathy.

Make your own groups.

That’s it. Start a group, label it “all welcome” and have fun. You cant change necros, and you cant change other people, that just leaves you. stop trying to join groups that don’t want you, and make your own group.

This unfortunately no longer works. I tried making a group for CM with my necro. Watched 5 other groups start and finish forming while I had not got a single member. Eventually gave up and switched to my ele. Had a full group in 15 seconds.

I have to admit I am guilty of this. When I look at a fractal/dungeon group, it is pretty much guaranteed I’m not going to join it or stay in it if I see a necro show up in it. The exception would be if it is a level 10 or below fractal where it can easily be soloed, with no gear equipped. Its just hard to convince yourself to willingly go into a run with a handicap, when you don’t have to. I don’t kick necromancers anymore for being necromancers because it isn’t their fault…I just leave. ANET needs to step up and provide some function instead of this theme/flavor handicap nonsense they have been holding onto regarding necromancers.

I’m excited for the reaper elite specialization. I’m hoping they will add a little more of the mandatory tools in for the base necromancer like a reflect on spectral wall and maybe even an evade on Death’s Charge. They also need to stop disabling our utility bar when we use our class mechanic.