Guild Wars 2

Specifically, why is this skill so godsawful?

1) It’s a channel. At 3.5 second long channel. So that means you’re probably going to have to dodge halfway through.

2) It deals crap damage. You’re substantially better off just autoattacking.

3). It isn’t worth using for the heal. 1800 base, 2700 if traited. That isn’t nothing, but it’s also not worth a 3.5 second channel.

I really want to like this skill as I love the idea of the vampire Necro, but something’s gotta give before it stops being a noob trap. Using it as a ranged attack isn’t even a good idea. You lose less DPS by popping 3 and walking into range for some autos. If it isn’t supposed to be for DPS, then it needs the healing to raise dramatically.

Am I off base here, or am I right in thinking we’re better off ptetending this skill isn’t even on our bar?

The only time I use it is when I am forced to range with MH dagger out, weapon swakitten till on cooldown, all of my other skills are on cooldown, and DS is on cooldown (or no LF). Needless to say, I agree with you and it needs a significant buff / rework (I do love the idea of a vampiric skill, though, so I’d vote for keeping it but significantly buffing it).

I’d like to see the base heal lowered and the scaling raised, but I’d really like to see a significantly shorter channel, or even a regular cast.

I’ve been running several variants on a vampire necro since release and I disagree.

1) The healing you get from it means you don’t necessarily have to dodge any damage coming your way. If you’re worried about getting interrupted, just toggle DS for stability before using it.

2) It deals “crap damage” because it heals you at the same time. See Axe 2, which does more damage faster but doesn’t heal you.

3) Mine heals me for 5k max while dealing 4-5k in WvW after factoring in all my siphon bonuses. That’s close to as much healing as CC, except dagger 2 is on a 12s cooldown. Given that, I think it needs to be harder to pull off than an actual heal spell, hence the channeling time.

If you want to do as much damage as fast as possible then just use dagger 1, it’s a tradeoff.

I guess I couldn’t complain if it got buffed since I use it so much already. However I disagree with your evaluation of the skill in its current form.

lettucemode.3789:

I’ve been running several variants on a vampire necro since release and I disagree.

1) The healing you get from it means you don’t necessarily have to dodge any damage coming your way. If you’re worried about getting interrupted, just toggle DS for stability before using it.

2) It deals “crap damage” because it heals you at the same time. See Axe 2, which does more damage faster but doesn’t heal you.

3) Mine heals me for 5k max while dealing 4-5k in WvW after factoring in all my siphon bonuses. That’s close to as much healing as CC, except dagger 2 is on a 12s cooldown. Given that, I think it needs to be harder to pull off than an actual heal spell, hence the channeling time.

If you want to do as much damage as fast as possible then just use dagger 1, it’s a tradeoff.

I guess I couldn’t complain if it got buffed since I use it so much already. However I disagree with your evaluation of the skill in its current form.

The problem is that Dagger autoattack is too good. It outshines everything. I’d like to see its damage reduced a bit and see damage buffs across the board to other skills. So they’re, you know, worth using. I feel like all I do is dagger autoattack. It outshines even life blast unless you take Reaper’s Might. Even then it’s marginal.

Dagger 2 isn’t used for damage, which is the point. Dagger 1 does all the damage, so the other 2 skills must be for utility purposes. Dagger 2 allows you to stay in the fight better, dagger 3 lets you lock them down.

I don’t think dagger 2 is bad at all, I love it.

Draehl.2681:

The problem is that Dagger autoattack is too good. It outshines everything. I’d like to see its damage reduced a bit and see damage buffs across the board to other skills. So they’re, you know, worth using. I feel like all I do is dagger autoattack. It outshines even life blast unless you take Reaper’s Might. Even then it’s marginal.

Fun fact, warrior banner 1 spam has more dps than necro dagger 1.

The problem is in PvE the Necromancer, particularly the dagger necromancer, is incredibly boring. I love the thematics and even some of the gameplay mechanics, but it leads to an awfully dull scenario. It’s fun to actually use skills…

lettucemode.3789:

I’ve been running several variants on a vampire necro since release and I disagree.

1) The healing you get from it means you don’t necessarily have to dodge any damage coming your way. If you’re worried about getting interrupted, just toggle DS for stability before using it.

2) It deals “crap damage” because it heals you at the same time. See Axe 2, which does more damage faster but doesn’t heal you.

3) Mine heals me for 5k max while dealing 4-5k in WvW after factoring in all my siphon bonuses. That’s close to as much healing as CC, except dagger 2 is on a 12s cooldown. Given that, I think it needs to be harder to pull off than an actual heal spell, hence the channeling time.

If you want to do as much damage as fast as possible then just use dagger 1, it’s a tradeoff.

I guess I couldn’t complain if it got buffed since I use it so much already. However I disagree with your evaluation of the skill in its current form.

1) I’m not so much worried about it getting interrupted as having to lock yourself out of dodging for 3 seconds to use it. That means it needs to provide a really, really good benefit to be worth the trouble.

2) It also has a cooldown, unlike the autoattack. That means that either it should at least deal damage competitive with said autoattack (so you aren’t actively losing DPS by using it) or it should give a very big heal, the kind of heal enemies in PvP will be watching for to interrupt.

3) By my calculations, it should heal for around 4k if you have about 500 healing power, Bloodthirst, Vampiric, and Vampiric Precision (and every proc crits). That’s… really not great for that level of investment compared to other profession’s sustain specs. Furthermore, you could’ve gotten a comparable number of Vampiric and Vampiric Precision procs just by autoattacking (the autoattack chain is 4 hits and my estimate is that you could get around 2 chains in during the channel for #2, totaling 8 hits) so counting those as part of Dagger #2 is a bit specious. I’m also of the opinion that skills should be worth using even without having to trait for them.

My concern isn’t so much that I want Dagger #2 to be an instant-cast massive nuke that also heals you for half your health on a short cooldown. I just think it’s ridiculous for it to be so inferior in so many aspects at the same time. At least one of those things needs to be buffed before using this skill isn’t largely a waste of time.

Bhawb.7408:

Dagger 2 isn’t used for damage, which is the point. Dagger 1 does all the damage, so the other 2 skills must be for utility purposes. Dagger 2 allows you to stay in the fight better, dagger 3 lets you lock them down.

I don’t think dagger 2 is bad at all, I love it.

I’d be fine if it dealt no damage at all as long as it healed you up enough to be worth the DPS drop. I love the idea of it, but in practice it just seems like I could’ve used that time to deal significantly more damage to my opponent than I dealt + healed up.

Its there to fill in the time between weapon swaps and DS if you cannot melee the enemy… please if you want sustain look elsewhere, no necro weapon will ever have actual guardian staff/dagger ele like sustain.

people are complaining about the long casting time???? i use it exactly for that reason, that skill with the trait for 400 toughness while casting healing me for about 3k hp aswell is an extremely defensive skill, am i the only one here?

I use dagger 2 when someone gets out of immediate melee range since it still has a 600 range on it. Or if for whatever reason I need to kite, I’ll use it while I’m running, but that hardly happens.

Yeah the healing needs a buff. And axe 2 also needs a dmg buff, its pathetic dps for a “burst skill”.

The bread and butter of any Bunker Necro build which utilizes the Vampiric trait and perma regen.

At the same time, a ranged attack and sustain ability for Power Necros.

This skill just screams attrition and that’s what Necros are good at. It’s one of my favorites.

Tenderly.7019:

The bread and butter of any Bunker Necro build which utilizes the Vampiric trait and perma regen.

At the same time, a ranged attack and sustain ability for Power Necros.

This skill just screams attrition and that’s what Necros are good at. It’s one of my favorites.

So while I somewhat agree, I have to ask, if it’s such a good sustain / bunker skill…

Why is it on dagger? It seems like you wouldn’t put that skill on the weapon with the best single target DPS.

Softspoken.2410:

Tenderly.7019:

The bread and butter of any Bunker Necro build which utilizes the Vampiric trait and perma regen.

At the same time, a ranged attack and sustain ability for Power Necros.

This skill just screams attrition and that’s what Necros are good at. It’s one of my favorites.

So while I somewhat agree, I have to ask, if it’s such a good sustain / bunker skill…

Why is it on dagger? It seems like you wouldn’t put that skill on the weapon with the best single target DPS.

My only guess is that since dagger 1 is really good for Vampiric, and dagger 3 is good for after you fear a target off point to decap it, they want this weapon to be a bunker weapon. Also, having decent damage as a bunker is desired.

At the same time, it’s great for power Necros

Arenanet likes to make all of their skills and abilities to have a dual purpose. Whether or not every purpose is clear is another bag!

Go away use something else..

Dagger is my fav weapon for necro. I’m dam fine with everything. I don’t want any nerf

on any of it.

imo dagger 2 is ok. It’s not powerful, but it’s range, and heal a little. It’s something at least.

Personally I find dagger #2 to be a filler skill. By that I mean I would only really use it if I didn’t have something better to use. Also if something is moving away from you its nice to keep that little extra damage (plus the healing) on the target while you try to close the distance. I’m indifferent on if it needs a change or not but I would really rather they didn’t buff the damage. If it gets to close to something like Axe it may out shine auto attack and kinda mess up the main hand dagger. If anything was changed do it to the healing side of the skill, though I’m not really sure it needs it.

Once again, a necro who just auto-attacks with Dagger #1 needs to l2p. I mentioned this before, I believe. But in PvP and WvW, if you just auto-attack, you. Will. Die. Easy enough.

I have 0 specced into healing power, and the dagger siphon has saved me in a ton of fights. It heals me for around 2k. And in the fights where I really need, the fights last a good minute or even longer. Which means I can use this skill multiple times. And trust me, it has saved my behind many times.

It also hits for 3-5k for me. Which is actually a considerable amount of damage.

I believe you are the person who posted the last thread complaining about dagger, and let me tell you, you would be one of the easiest kills on WvW or PvP. Because all you apparently want to do is auto-attack with your dagger. And any necro attempting that in PvP or WvW is a completely dead necro.

Once again, l2p.

P.S. To the people talking about PvE, PvE is a cakewalk. You can practically run any build and be successful. And quite frankly, dagger autoattack DPS can be far outclassed by most other classes. I need to use 2 utilities to even compete.

Yerffejy.6538:

Once again, a necro who just auto-attacks with Dagger #1 needs to l2p. I mentioned this before, I believe. But in PvP and WvW, if you just auto-attack, you. Will. Die. Easy enough.

Thats a odd point to make…couldn’t you say any class with any weapon that just auto attacks will die or needs to "l2p?

Well…. yes!

But this is a necro thread…… O.O

The damage is fine, the healing could be buffed a little bit tho.

I also dont like the time it takes until you finally start leeching, at the beginning of the cast.

What do you think about turning it into a group heal? If, for example, it heals nearby allies (minions and players) by 50% of the heal?

The damage could go away entirely so long as the heal were significantly increased.

RashanDale.3609:

The damage is fine, the healing could be buffed a little bit tho.

I also dont like the time it takes until you finally start leeching, at the beginning of the cast.

What do you think about turning it into a group heal? If, for example, it heals nearby allies (minions and players) by 50% of the heal?

Or adding it to the Transfusion trait.

Sorry for the delay in response, I was unavoidably detained.

Yerffejy.6538:

Once again, a necro who just auto-attacks with Dagger #1 needs to l2p. I mentioned this before, I believe. But in PvP and WvW, if you just auto-attack, you. Will. Die. Easy enough.

Of course. But if just autoattacking is more effective than using your skills, then there is a problem with the numbers on the skills. The dagger’s autoattack doesn’t need a nerf, so the problem must lie with #2.

Yerffejy.6538:

I have 0 specced into healing power, and the dagger siphon has saved me in a ton of fights. It heals me for around 2k. And in the fights where I really need, the fights last a good minute or even longer. Which means I can use this skill multiple times. And trust me, it has saved my behind many times.

Perhaps it healed you 2k each time, but it also prevented you from dealing more than a net 2k damage each time. Unless you were incapable of staying within melee range for the full duration of the channel, you were blocking yourself from dealing more damage with #1 than you dealt + healed with #2.

Yerffejy.6538:

I believe you are the person who posted the last thread complaining about dagger, and let me tell you, you would be one of the easiest kills on WvW or PvP.

Wrong on both counts.

Yerffejy.6538:

Because all you apparently want to do is auto-attack with your dagger. And any necro attempting that in PvP or WvW is a completely dead necro.

On the contrary, I want to use my dagger autoattack as my finishing move. Grab someone, lock them down in a Well of Suffering, hit them with some chain fearing, then slice them to death.

I want #2 to support that playstyle. It’s a great idea for a skill: the Dagger is an in-your-face weapon and it needs to give the Necro the sustain to be able to stick around there with the big boys. Life Siphon necros were only of my favorite builds from GW1 and I love the idea of drain-tanking my foes whilst murdering them. But the math just doesn’t add up on this skill.

I think that it’s just… off.
The auto-attack is melee, but then for some reason the 2nd skill is a long, ranged channel that deals “meh” damage and gives some lackluster healing?

I don’t know about you guys but when I think of a melee weapon I want:
1. Enough damage to make it worth it.
This is pretty alright I guess.

2. Mobility to not get kited.
The Dagger gives NONE.
…but you can use Dark Path, I guess.

3. Survivability to actually not instantly die up close.
The healing isn’t really enough for this and the dagger has no blocks or anything like that.

4. Skills to make it harder for the foe to escape.
Dark Pact.
Dagger actually has this, but on a 1 second cast time… While much more dangerous skills like Signet of Spite have ridiculously fast cast times.
Doesn’t make much sense, but it’s a pretty good skill either way.

I’d much rather have Life Siphon be a leap that steals health when it hits.
Or even just a substantial, fast melee-range Life Steal.

….or just buff it’s healing.
That might be enough.
Especially if in the future Necros get more melee weapons.

OR it could work a little bit like Tainted Shackles!
Cast it to latch life stealing “tentacles” to targets and stay in range to have them continuously steal health.

Or maybe just one target… Either way, just throwing out some ideas.

I’d like the skill if it worked like Life Transfer, but perhaps on a max number of targets being 3 or so. It would add more AoE to the skill and dagger overall, lots more healing (as you steal life from each person hit) and would be less awkward with being able to use it while facing away from your target.

If it worked as described above, I’d likely already be a Blood Necro, as in GW1.

id love for it to have something like a three second cripple attatched

People say it’s good for vampiric builds. When did vampiric builds become viable?

They didn’t.

Dagger #2 does decent ranged dmg if your target slips outside of melee range and you’re specced for direct damage. Dagger is direct damage weapon after all.

The one could argue if so long channeling time is useful though. Or dagger could perhaps use some defensive or cc ability instead to stay at melee range better.

I am personally fine with dagger #2 to be honest. It took a while to get used to it though.

The skill is godawful in actual combat, it gets interrupted and dodged (negating damage and healing) non stop. Numbers seem okay if you look at a game that uses telegraphed attacks and counterplay to skills, but thats not what gw2 is. If you compare the opportunity cost to what other classes can and will do in those 3,5 seconds you should see parallels to warrior problems of overly telegraphed abilities.
Also looking at the cast time, cd and effects of dagger 3, dark pact, it is one of the worst skills in the game. Especially as an immob (compare to mes sword 3, warri longbow 5, even guard scep 3 or how about ele d/x earth 3?)