Lets fix Curse

Lets fix Curse

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

Curse still has some decent options going for it at the moment. Some traits are still really good while others don’t seem to be that great. So first lets break down what is good, bad or needs improvement. How things can be better placed to help this line out.

Good

  • Furious Demise and Target the weak are both really good.
  • Plague Sending: Solid Adept-. Has a 30 second ICD according to its description but its a minor I don’t expect this to rock the boat. Will be solid.
  • Path of Corruption: Decent Master trait. hard to argue with its location in the trait line. Its not going to define any builds but it is a source of boon conversion.

Bad

  • Barbed Precision: What was the point of dropping its trigger down to 33%? Considering the necromancer is the slowest attacking profession in the game combine with the fact that out of the slowest builds in the slowest profession condimancer is the slowest of the slow. Buff this back up to 66% chance.
  • Master of Corruption: Applying more conditions to you is bad. This means you’ll have to sacrifice even more of your defenses to transfer these bonus conditions you’re applying to yourself. Gives a 33% recharge reduction but honestly, not worth it. My suggestion to improve this could be 2 ways. Make it so when you trigger a corruption you copy your conditions to up to 5 foes in a 600 radus along with the extra condition or remove the extra condition, reduce the recharge to 25% and have it give us resistance. The second option would be preferred as scaling defenses is something we’re currently lacking.
  • Terror: Move back up to the Grandmaster slot and combine it with Master of terror. This is a quality of life change. You want us to play a terrormancer, fine. I’ll agree with you. But you have to meet us half way and give us the tools to be able to do so.
  • Lingering Curse: Return it to what you previewed for us before. 150 condition damage along with 100% condition duration while wielding a scepter. If the duration is too much drop it down to 75% or even 66%. But it still needs to function on more than just two skills. A lot of potential builds were riding on this trait and without it they’ll never see the light of day. If I can be knocked down for 5 seconds, and stun-locked into oblivion I should at least have the option to return the favor. If its competing with terror than there is no complication between the two.
  • Parasitic Contagion: Just remove this trait. With blood as an option for us we’ll have enough life stealing to easily make up for anything this could have provided. Just… Get rid of it..

Needs Improvement

  • Terrifying Descent: Not really much to say about this trait. Its kinda underwhelming but all fall traits are that way. Increase the fear duration to 2 seconds I’d suggest, since you have to hurt yourself to use it.
  • Weakening Shroud: I just can’t help but feel like this is missing something. It just doesn’t feel right to me. Perhaps if on critical it gave weakness to your foe and around the target? Actually, yeah that could be good.

These are my suggestions. What might you suggest to improve this line which is currently in shambles?

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Posted by: Vorgryn.9145

Vorgryn.9145

  • Barbed Precision: What was the point of dropping its trigger down to 33%? Considering the necromancer is the slowest attacking profession in the game combine with the fact that out of the slowest builds in the slowest profession condimancer is the slowest of the slow. Buff this back up to 66% chance.

This change made no sense. Condimancers get like one attack a second and with a 50ish% crit chance, this trait will give us one 2s bleed every 6 seconds or so? This wasn’t a trait that needed to be nerfed, since other faster attacking weapons (dagger) don’t put on any conditions themselves…

  • Lingering Curse: Return it to what you previewed for us before. 150 condition damage along with 100% condition duration while wielding a scepter. If the duration is too much drop it down to 75% or even 66%. But it still needs to function on more than just two skills. A lot of potential builds were riding on this trait and without it they’ll never see the light of day. If I can be knocked down for 5 seconds, and stun-locked into oblivion I should at least have the option to return the favor. If its competing with terror than there is no complication between the two.

This was my largest issue with the update notes. They killed so many really fun builds before they even had the chance to see the light of day. If it was too powerful simply change the percentage to something lower. Then again, Arena doesn’t really seem to care if their Necros are having fun or not, but a grandmaster trait that buffs two skills is totally lame.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Its locked in. We are stuck with this garbage for at least a year. We just have to make do now. Or reroll or quit. We must all make our own choices.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

  • Barbed Precision: What was the point of dropping its trigger down to 33%? Considering the necromancer is the slowest attacking profession in the game combine with the fact that out of the slowest builds in the slowest profession condimancer is the slowest of the slow. Buff this back up to 66% chance.

This change made no sense. Condimancers get like one attack a second and with a 50ish% crit chance, this trait will give us one 2s bleed every 6 seconds or so? This wasn’t a trait that needed to be nerfed, since other faster attacking weapons (dagger) don’t put on any conditions themselves…

  • Lingering Curse: Return it to what you previewed for us before. 150 condition damage along with 100% condition duration while wielding a scepter. If the duration is too much drop it down to 75% or even 66%. But it still needs to function on more than just two skills. A lot of potential builds were riding on this trait and without it they’ll never see the light of day. If I can be knocked down for 5 seconds, and stun-locked into oblivion I should at least have the option to return the favor. If its competing with terror than there is no complication between the two.

This was my largest issue with the update notes. They killed so many really fun builds before they even had the chance to see the light of day. If it was too powerful simply change the percentage to something lower. Then again, Arena doesn’t really seem to care if their Necros are having fun or not, but a grandmaster trait that buffs two skills is totally lame.

I had a condi reaper build that relied on the Lingering curse trait to make it Viable in reaper’s shroud with Dhuumfire. It was a rather restrictive build since you had to take very specific lines to get it to work but it would have been worth it. Now I don’t see a good reason to run a condi reaper. Even if chill is high damage I can’t justify taking that over something else. It seems to me that the condi build the necromancer is going to be using the future will rely heavily on signets. Because of Signets of Suffering trait along with other traits that act like signets it just seems natural that it’ll evolve in that direction and Corruptions will go the way of the dodo. Which seems to be my biggest problem with the changes to the necromancer. They open the door for 1 new builds and slam the door on everything else.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

Its locked in. We are stuck with this garbage for at least a year. We just have to make do now. Or reroll or quit. We must all make our own choices.

We have to keep fighting for it… We really do. Remember Foot in the grave? That was nerfed into the ground and a week later it was made into a stunbreak. They’ve made on the fly fixes before and we are going to need them.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Its locked in. We are stuck with this garbage for at least a year. We just have to make do now. Or reroll or quit. We must all make our own choices.

We have to keep fighting for it… We really do. Remember Foot in the grave? That was nerfed into the ground and a week later it was made into a stunbreak. They’ve made on the fly fixes before and we are going to need them.

Not this time. They will say they will keep a close eye on things. But realisitically the damage done by poor trait positioning as with terror will not be undone until another expansion possibly in 2 to 3 years. Or maybe never. The skills or number changes to skills and traits could change, but the trait positioning is locked in for 3 years. Necro is doomed to another 3 years of trash tier in every game mode

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: LezardValeth.9453

LezardValeth.9453

Remember Dhummfire? Remember how it wasn’t overpowered yet people still complained and in response Arenanet nerfed everything BUT Dhummfire? I’m sorry, but giving up is very viable an option.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Remember Dhummfire? Remember how it wasn’t overpowered yet people still complained and in response Arenanet nerfed everything BUT Dhummfire? I’m sorry, but giving up is very viable an option.

Yup. In pvp teams had between 0 and 1 necros. And yet dhuumfire got nerfed and the nerfs to bleeds and terror never got reversed. In fact this dhuumfire nerf was massive. The key necro condition trait was basically deleted. It would be like deleting fast hands and cleansing ire on warriors. Which they would never do. Anet hates necro. Its that simple. They always balance it carefully and make sure it can never be strong

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

Remember Dhummfire? Remember how it wasn’t overpowered yet people still complained and in response Arenanet nerfed everything BUT Dhummfire? I’m sorry, but giving up is very viable an option.

I would hope that arena net would have learned by now. They seem to be acknowledge our plight as of late. But it all seems to be hot air. They’ve even gone to state that Stability is really important to the necromancer and especially the reaper. But its questionable considering the fact we have less access to it than even the MESMER!

You guys might be right. Still I have to keep fighting for our profession. My heart lies in Curse. Its always been there. Ever since GW1. I can’t just abandon my favorite way to play.

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Posted by: Vorgryn.9145

Vorgryn.9145

There was just so many times in the ReadyUp with all the other classes that they said “This will be really strong but we’ll keep an eye on it.” Why not just kitten-ing keep an eye on this stuff and tune parameters or durations as needed? Lingering Curses effecting all conditions by some N% couldn’t possibly have been a big enough buff to overpower Condimancers, who were already an underpowered class even when not competing for conditions on enemies.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

There was just so many times in the ReadyUp with all the other classes that they said “This will be really strong but we’ll keep an eye on it.” Why not just kitten-ing keep an eye on this stuff and tune parameters or durations as needed? Lingering Curses effecting all conditions by some N% couldn’t possibly have been a big enough buff to overpower Condimancers, who were already an underpowered class even when not competing for conditions on enemies.

God that really made me angry. Not you, but just being reminded that they said that. You’re completely right though.

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Posted by: DEATHsCLAW.1978

DEATHsCLAW.1978

my biggest concern in this line is furious demise.. especially now sonce they moved everything towards condition I dont see a sence in that fury. IT DOESNT BENEFIT ANY CONDITIONMANCER AT ALL.

the fury is there to proc crits on shroud4.. well lets do the math..
DS 4 has 9 hits.. lets say until those 5 seconds of fury are over we get additional 3 hits of making it 12 hits during that period.. +20%critchance makes 2 more crits out of 10 strikes.. maximal 3 out of 12.
Now 1 of this 3 strikes will trigger that bleeding stack of 3 seconds what will deal about 360 damage… proved, fury on condibuild serves nothing..

it should be moved somewhere to the sould reaping line.. then just fill that minor with somewhat any condibuild can use.. maybe “Path of Corruption” or “weakenig shroud”

(edited by DEATHsCLAW.1978)

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

my biggest concern in this line is furious demise.. especially now sonce they moved everything towards condition I dont see a sence in that fury. IT DOESNT BENEFIT ANY CONDITIONMANCER AT ALL.

the fury is there to proc crits on shroud4.. well lets do the math..
DS 4 has 9 hits.. lets say until those 5 seconds of fury are over we get additional 3 hits of making it 12 hits during that period.. +20%critchance makes 2 more crits out of 10 strikes.. maximal 3 out of 12. so 1 of this 3 strikes will trigger that bleeding stack of 3 seconds what will deal about 360 damage… proved, fury on condibuild serves nothing..

it should be moved somewhere to the sould reaping line.. then just fill that minor with somewhat any condibuild can use.. maybe “Path of Corruption” or “weakenig shroud”

I have so many concerns for this specialization it isn’t even funny.

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Posted by: Vorgryn.9145

Vorgryn.9145

Yeah, I’m not sure that someone realized with the nerf to barbed precision they were making Furious Demise even more worthless then before. They should change Furious demise to be either generic condition duration (50%?), a straight up increase to condition damage, or maybe make current parasitic contagion a minor…

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

I agree about the barbed precision change, totally unnecessary. But I think we all knew that lingering curses wouldn’t stay. I mean, every chill from chill of darkness would be 4 seconds. You could leave plague with a minute of chill on a target, as an aoe. It was too strong and it was going to be nerfed.

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Posted by: Ashur.6403

Ashur.6403

I agree about the barbed precision change, totally unnecessary. But I think we all knew that lingering curses wouldn’t stay. I mean, every chill from chill of darkness would be 4 seconds. You could leave plague with a minute of chill on a target, as an aoe. It was too strong and it was going to be nerfed.

The quick change is make it read that Lingering Curses makes your damaging conditions last longer (doesn’t affect Terror/Deathly Chill).

Dark Lord Sutekh – Necromancer
Henge of Denravi

(edited by Ashur.6403)

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

I agree about the barbed precision change, totally unnecessary. But I think we all knew that lingering curses wouldn’t stay. I mean, every chill from chill of darkness would be 4 seconds. You could leave plague with a minute of chill on a target, as an aoe. It was too strong and it was going to be nerfed.

They buffed chilling darkness to 2 seconds. Personally, I think they should keep it at 1 and give us the Lingering curse trait. Its more constructive for builds.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

That’s just one example. It would have allowed me to stack massive immobilize on enemies, it would allow for easy perma cripple/chill/poison, maybe even weakness, 4 second AoE fears, basically it would validate the need for the stupid amount of spammable condi removal, since without it you would consistently have half a bar of condis on you.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

That’s just one example. It would have allowed me to stack massive immobilize on enemies, it would allow for easy perma cripple/chill/poison, maybe even weakness, 4 second AoE fears, basically it would validate the need for the stupid amount of spammable condi removal, since without it you would consistently have half a bar of condis on you.

Then they should keep a close eye on it. Not destroy any build potential it had before ever actually seeing what it might do. Like how they’re keeping a close eye on everyone else but letting them have massively over powered traits that easily trump Lingering curse in the previous version.

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

That’s just one example. It would have allowed me to stack massive immobilize on enemies, it would allow for easy perma cripple/chill/poison, maybe even weakness, 4 second AoE fears, basically it would validate the need for the stupid amount of spammable condi removal, since without it you would consistently have half a bar of condis on you.

Then they should keep a close eye on it. Not destroy any build potential it had before ever actually seeing what it might do. Like how they’re keeping a close eye on everyone else but letting them have massively over powered traits that easily trump Lingering curse in the previous version.

It would have been nerfed if it went live like that. Any build that can be utterly dominant by just pressing 1 (which this build would have between scepter, chill procs, and dhuumfire) will be nerfed. You’d tear apart anything but a shoutbow from range, and even then you might get to the shoutbow because they’d have constant poison and the chill would draw out their cooldowns so long that they would eventually run out of buttons to press with their face.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

That’s just one example. It would have allowed me to stack massive immobilize on enemies, it would allow for easy perma cripple/chill/poison, maybe even weakness, 4 second AoE fears, basically it would validate the need for the stupid amount of spammable condi removal, since without it you would consistently have half a bar of condis on you.

Then they should keep a close eye on it. Not destroy any build potential it had before ever actually seeing what it might do. Like how they’re keeping a close eye on everyone else but letting them have massively over powered traits that easily trump Lingering curse in the previous version.

It would have been nerfed if it went live like that. Any build that can be utterly dominant by just pressing 1 (which this build would have between scepter, chill procs, and dhuumfire) will be nerfed. You’d tear apart anything but a shoutbow from range, and even then you might get to the shoutbow because they’d have constant poison and the chill would draw out their cooldowns so long that they would eventually run out of buttons to press with their face.

You mean spamming 1 builds like every single power necro build?

This wouldn’t have been like that. I’ve looked over the duration and its not nearly as powerful as you guys are making it out to be. Especially considering people can easily disengage us without a problem. Even with our heavy chill they can. And with resistance it becomes even easier. I look at other professions and see flat condition duration across the bored or high passive damage increase on conditions combine with ready and easy access to valn, much easier than what we have and they’re easily doubling their condi damage. Not to mention the engineer’s ability to spam crippling for days.

Even if it was as strong as you guys think, would 66% duration really break us that much? The answer is no… Especially considering condimancers have fallen out of favor and have been out of favor for about a year and a half now and with the coming changes they wont stand any chance and being in favor, the suggested fixes I’ve made could at least make curses good. Not favorable because we’re still missing allot of tools that we absolutely need, but at least good.

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Posted by: KashimKudal.2961

KashimKudal.2961

At this point I’d just be happy for a necro Dev to actually break their silence and answer some questions honestly. I agree with most of the changes listed above in the main post. I just want Consume Conditions to be explained as to why it gimps the necromancer and is the only heal in the ENTIRE GAME that punishes you for trying to survive.

Lord Abbadon – Human Necromancer – Anvil Rock
“Abaddon DOES NOT LOSE DANCE CONTESTS!!!”

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Posted by: Vorgryn.9145

Vorgryn.9145

The quick change is make it read that Lingering Curses makes your damaging conditions last longer (doesn’t affect Terror/Deathly Chill).

What is frustrating though is the fact that all of our non-damaging conditions have already been nerfed due to us losing our +30% condition duration from the traitline… We have NO general condition duration anymore.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

The quick change is make it read that Lingering Curses makes your damaging conditions last longer (doesn’t affect Terror/Deathly Chill).

What is frustrating though is the fact that all of our non-damaging conditions have already been nerfed due to us losing our +30% condition duration from the traitline… We have NO general condition duration anymore.

Thats why I said a flat 66% sounded reasonable.

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Posted by: Softspoken.2410

Softspoken.2410

So do we actually know the duration of the new Barbed Precision? I just figured they had changed it from 66% chance of 2s to 33% chance of 4s (See: Warrior Precise Strikes). Or maybe a base of 3s before the 20% increased duration is applied, so it’d be 3.6s…?

Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

I really hope arena net actually listens to this. I’m really trying to be constructive here. Please please please, arena net. Don’t destroy my favorite Specialization.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

So do we actually know the duration of the new Barbed Precision? I just figured they had changed it from 66% chance of 2s to 33% chance of 4s (See: Warrior Precise Strikes). Or maybe a base of 3s before the 20% increased duration is applied, so it’d be 3.6s…?

interestingly, barbed precision used to be 33% with 2 second duration. The issue at that time is how rare it was to trigger at all and how short its duration was that a necromancer was unlikely to apply very many bleeds through precision. At that time it was actually recommended that necromancers don’t take rabid gear because of the slow attack rate of the necromancer. Comparatively, the warrior who had a functionally identical trait could trigger it multiple times in one fight, even easily capping their bleeds at 25. The difference in performance between two professions with identical traits was clear to them and the rest of the community and they upped the trigger to 66% to compensate for the necromancer’s lack of attack speed.

Now the only reason I can think of for why the chance would be dropped is because of the reaper. But when examining it more closely, that doesn’t even make sense to me because even with how much faster the reaper attacks when in comparison to the base necromancer the reaper’s shroud has only 1 damage condition on its own. With the theory crafting I was doing I still expected to lose bleed stacks for staying in reaper’s shroud. Where I expected to make up for that loss was with deathly chills and Dhuumfire. But with the other trait changes coupled with this, I don’t expect reaper’s shroud to ever compete with the core profession for condition application. Which is pretty bad considering that the current necromancer doesn’t compete with mesmer, engineer, warrior, ranger or thief in this department and with their universal buffs and our major nerfs I can’t possibly see the thinking behind any of arena net’s decisions with the curses specialization.

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Posted by: flow.6043

flow.6043

interestingly, barbed precision used to be 33% with 2 second duration.

That’s not true, it’s always been 66%.
They did however buff the duration a long time ago, it used to be just 1 second originally.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

interestingly, barbed precision used to be 33% with 2 second duration.

That’s not true, it’s always been 66%.
They did however buff the duration a long time ago, it used to be just 1 second originally.

Oh, sorry my mistake.

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Posted by: DEATHsCLAW.1978

DEATHsCLAW.1978

soo since this is a thread to improve the Curse line I just wanna throw out there my idea of it.

I thought instead of that Fury you could simply put Path of Corruption in Minor2 since it helps ANY build, boon corruption of for example protection helps a power build too.
so it would look like this:

Minor1 Barbed Precision (maybe with 66%proc on crit)
Minor2 Path of Corruption (with or without Fury)
Minor3 Target the Weak

Adept:
Terrifying Descent
Plague Sending *
Chilling Darkness

Master
Terror
Master of Corruption *
(free slot)

Grandmaster
Weakening Shroud *
Parasitic Contagion
Lingering Curse

everything marked with an (*) is usable as a Powerspec too,
especially MoC since the addtitional conditions dont bother you too much since you have a low condi damage, especially with the formula changes they deal even less than before when not focused on condi. So you can still have your Consume Conditions at 20s by getting some vulnerability and idk maybe bleed for 5 seconds or so…

the condimancer can use all traits since they would all fit in a condi build.

any thoughts on this? =)

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Didnt say it in the other threat but MoC isnt “really” usable by a power spec.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

soo since this is a thread to improve the Curse line I just wanna throw out there my idea of it.

I thought instead of that Fury you could simply put Path of Corruption in Minor2 since it helps ANY build, boon corruption of for example protection helps a power build too.
so it would look like this:

Minor1 Barbed Precision (maybe with 66%proc on crit)
Minor2 Path of Corruption (with or without Fury)
Minor3 Target the Weak

Adept:
Terrifying Descent
Plague Sending *
Chilling Darkness

Master
Terror
Master of Corruption *
(free slot)

Grandmaster
Weakening Shroud *
Parasitic Contagion
Lingering Curse

everything marked with an (*) is usable as a Powerspec too,
especially MoC since the addtitional conditions dont bother you too much since you have a low condi damage, especially with the formula changes they deal even less than before when not focused on condi. So you can still have your Consume Conditions at 20s by getting some vulnerability and idk maybe bleed for 5 seconds or so…

the condimancer can use all traits since they would all fit in a condi build.

any thoughts on this? =)

One of the issues I have with the traits is allot of them are just underwhelming or out right bad. Such as parasitic contagion, which also doesn’t fit the theme of the trait line. Lingering curse is also not good enough to be using up a Grand master slot in its current version and terror is competing with a trait the terrormancer needs.

Going on the terrormancer problem, the build wants Spectral skills in order to work. properly. And it also favors the staff. Spectral Mastery, Vital Persistence and Fear of Death are all competing for the same spot on the terrormancer’s setup. combining one of these, Fear of Death, with terror and moving it up to the grandmaster slot while dropping parasitic contagion frees up allot of space for this build while at the same time letting something like Lingering curse increasing duration of all conditions to exist in the same space without making one or the other too powerful.

Keeping with the precision theme is also important. So keeping path of corruption a master is perfectly valid as it doesn’t function as a precision trait.

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Posted by: DEATHsCLAW.1978

DEATHsCLAW.1978

Didnt say it in the other threat but MoC isnt “really” usable by a power spec.

not really usable yes, but it helps a little bit just like Spinal Shivers or the in the would help a condi a little bit.
but spite is a power focused line and curses is focused on condi so it cannot and shouldn’t provide amazing support for power specs..

the main focus should be to improve Condi builds or am I wrong?

and @Lily yes you are right the Terrormancer needs to be adressed by Anet but its main problem is in the Soul Reaping Line.. the Idea of merging fear of death with terror sounds pretty amazing =)

about the precision, I dont mind leaving the fury in there but it just has to be merged with something in my opinion.. it can be Weakening shroud since it provides something on crit or so.. but the fury alone leaves the minor as probably the weakest in the line for a Condimancer

(edited by DEATHsCLAW.1978)

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Didnt say it in the other threat but MoC isnt “really” usable by a power spec.

not really usable yes, but it helps a little bit just like Spinal Shivers or the in the would help a condi a little bit.
but spite is a power focused line and curses is focused on condi so it cannot and shouldn’t provide amazing support for power specs..

the main focus should be to improve Condi builds or am I wrong?

and @Lily yes you are right the Terrormancer needs to be adressed by Anet but its main problem is in the Soul Reaping Line.. the Idea of merging fear of death with terror sounds pretty amazing =)

Condi + critical strikes. You keep forgetting the other half of the line. Also on terrormancer, there are builds on other classes that have been changed in the exact same way what makes terror any different? You guys make it sound like the only condi spec that there will be.

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Posted by: DEATHsCLAW.1978

DEATHsCLAW.1978

As for pvp the Terrormancer is right now and it shouldnt be too much of a difference I think.. Just my opinion on that though

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

Didnt say it in the other threat but MoC isnt “really” usable by a power spec.

not really usable yes, but it helps a little bit just like Spinal Shivers or the in the would help a condi a little bit.
but spite is a power focused line and curses is focused on condi so it cannot and shouldn’t provide amazing support for power specs..

the main focus should be to improve Condi builds or am I wrong?

and @Lily yes you are right the Terrormancer needs to be adressed by Anet but its main problem is in the Soul Reaping Line.. the Idea of merging fear of death with terror sounds pretty amazing =)

You’re not wrong about condi builds needing to be addressed at all. I wouldn’t say master of corruption is good for a power build considering previously you’d only bring one corruption skill on your bar. Corrupt boon. Perhaps 2 with the changes if Consume condition stays a corruption and gets fixed to a usable state. But beyond that you’re going to want to take spectral master or w/e its going to be called now. Curses really doesn’t have anything too compelling for a power build at the moment. Enfeebling shroud, maybe But even that doesn’t seem very good.

Right now Curses has okay Adepts, poorly placed Masters, and atrocious Grandmasters.

Lets fix Curse

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Posted by: Comus.7365

Comus.7365

trying to implement changes when only focused on 1 spec is never a good idea.

Lets fix Curse

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Weakening shroud is anything but weak. 50%+ upimr in weakness is huge. Weakness has 50% to fumble and -50% endurance regen. If the vigor changes are true it completely counters it.

Lets fix Curse

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

As for pvp the Terrormancer is right now and it shouldnt be too much of a difference I think.. Just my opinion on that though

Its pretty weak right now and with the greater emphasis on conditions this means its going to be further left behind than it already is. In order to get the boon conversion the terrormancer will need they’ll have to go into spite which means they’ll lose out on a couple really useful traits they’ll need in Death magic. Or in Soul reaping. Or they’ll just have to run signets which means their life force generation will be much weaker.

Personally, I see terrormancer as a rather defensive build with minor burst. And we can’t actually run it like that. I would have liked to have a lingering curse build along with a terrormancer build to really create some unique game play between the two builds. One using terror to weaken and control while their defenses build up while the other debilitates the foe giving a very different twist on each of the build’s play style. But with the changes they’ve shown us neither of those builds can exist. Instead we’re getting a sub-optimal Signet build in its place.

Lets fix Curse

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

trying to implement changes when only focused on 1 spec is never a good idea.

the suggestions have the other specs heavily in mind.

Lets fix Curse

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

Weakening shroud is anything but weak. 50%+ upimr in weakness is huge. Weakness has 50% to fumble and -50% endurance regen. If the vigor changes are true it completely counters it.

It doesn’t scale very well against multiple foes. At the moment it seems more designed for 1v1 dualing. And having it be the same but an aoe weakness on the same cool down could allow it to scale and function far better with the reaper specialization. Ultimately that means it still doesn’t change any when you’re fighting 1v1. Its not that its weak its that its lacking something, and I think that’s what its lacking considering the necromancer doesn’t have very good methods for scaling against multiple foes.

Lets fix Curse

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Posted by: flow.6043

flow.6043

Right now Curses has okay Adepts, poorly placed Masters, and atrocious Grandmasters.

I disagree on the gm tier being bad.
I know you’re disappointed by Lingering Curse, but not having a 100% duration buff to every duration is a huge bullet dodged for us, it simply would’ve been terrible for the balance of the class to have such a broken trait.
Should they have completely removed the duration increase to affect other conditions? Mabye, maybe not, but LC in this version is still a significant buff over what we have now. Couple that with the new condition damage mechanics and the better scaling damage formulas, especially with the extra 150 condition damage from LC, and you’ll see it will still be a popular trait.

As for the other two traits:

I like Parasitic Contagion and that it is in Curses, it really does fit the theme since it scales with condition damage and not power or healing power like vamp traits in Blood Magic. The only problem with it is that it doesn’t work in Shroud, but still 10% of your damage heals you seems like a nice sustain alternative and I’m sure it will be used from now on.
On a side note: apparently some people would like to see this trait in Blood Magic, but it would actually limit build diverstiy to be forced into one specialization if you want any traited healing at all. So again, Curses makes sense for Parasitic Contagion.

And Weakening Shroud seems to longer have an icd. Notice how it says “functionally identical to Enfeeblind Blood” while other traits like Spiteful Spirit, Plague Sending or Blood Bond all say “This trait benefits from the recharge bonus of …”.
So it seems like what they did is: remove the icd, make it a full Enfeebling Blood instead of Enfeeble, merge in Withering Precision, but in turn bump it up to grandmaster.
With the new system you actually can’t assume gm>master>adept, but compared to Lingering Curse and Parasitic Contagion it really needs that buff to be a viable pick over the others.

Lets fix Curse

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Posted by: Vorgryn.9145

Vorgryn.9145

I know you’re disappointed by Lingering Curse, but not having a 100% duration buff to every duration is a huge bullet dodged for us, it simply would’ve been terrible for the balance of the class to have such a broken trait.
Should they have completely removed the duration increase to affect other conditions? Mabye, maybe not, but LC in this version is still a significant buff over what we have now. Couple that with the new condition damage mechanics and the better scaling damage formulas, especially with the extra 150 condition damage from LC, and you’ll see it will still be a popular trait.

I don’t think many of us in this thread are suggesting that Lingering Curses needs the original 100% duration. Since we’ve already lost 30% general condition duration from the curses line due to the trait/stat seperation, it seems like the line could do with SOME amount of general across the board condition duration for all of our other conditions that non-scepter skills can put onto enemies. This isn’t just bleeds but is instead about some of the meager utility we bring to parties through blinds/chills/cripples/poisons/vulnerablities. What about making some amount of scepter duration increase baseline to the scepter and allowing this skill to give all conditions +50% duration? There surely must be some ways to tune this skill such that we maintain some of the exciting functionality that this trait gives.

I like Parasitic Contagion and that it is in Curses, it really does fit the theme since it scales with condition damage and not power or healing power like vamp traits in Blood Magic. The only problem with it is that it doesn’t work in Shroud, but still 10% of your damage heals you seems like a nice sustain alternative and I’m sure it will be used from now on.
On a side note: apparently some people would like to see this trait in Blood Magic, but it would actually limit build diverstiy to be forced into one specialization if you want any traited healing at all. So again, Curses makes sense for Parasitic Contagion.

I am one of those that would love to see Parasitic Contagion in Blood Magic. Blood magic seems pretty cool right now but the problem but there isn’t really a grandmaster that does anything for a condition damage based (unless you run a well I guess?). Additionally siphoning is that it’s effectiveness is based around how quickly you can attack, and condimancers running scepter attack REALLY slow. They don’t benefit from the siphoning as much but I would still love to provide the vampiric aura to my party members. Parasitic Contagion fits into the blood magic line by providing healing we’re already used to getting alongside Lingering Curses (PC was in SPITE of all places before…)

If that doesn’t convince you about Parasitic Contagion, then I guess I’ll have to refer back to the GW2 meta: a party member is valued based on the DPS and Utility (read: might stacking) they bring to a party. Currently healing and tanking aren’t worth much, and Parasitic contagion is simply a selfish healing mechanic (that I happen to like). Anyone who chooses Parasitic Contagion over Lingering Curses would be a liability to their party in PvE or PvP due to a drop in group DPS without a gain in group-wide utility.

[edit] Obviously choosing parasitic over lingering would only be a bad decision in group play if you’re a scepter based condimancer. I guess with crit procing bleeds you’d probably be able to get half decent healing out of parasitic while running daggers? My focus here is only for the traditional scepter condimancer.

(edited by Vorgryn.9145)

Lets fix Curse

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

snip

I’m upset at the flat loss of 30% condition duration with all that duration front-loaded into my scepter. 66% isn’t something that’s out of the question especially considering that other traits don’t have good use with the current build. Such as dhuumfire.

As for Parasitic contagion, it doesn’t fit Curses. It didn’t even fit spite. Blood I suppose but we’d have to drop something from blood. I’d personally make it so your condition damage heal allies around targets who are suffering from conditions. Maybe tests its healing out put but as it is I’m not a fan of it for curses.

Lets fix Curse

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Posted by: Vorgryn.9145

Vorgryn.9145

Actually, random thought: what if additional condition duration was part of Master of Corruption? That way it’d be a little more balanced because it would increase the duration of conditions that you apply to yourself as well as others? There is still some risk involved, because if you haven’t been managing your clears/transfers right then you’re stuck with a condition on yourself for an even longer duration but ultimately I think this would help out the build a fair amount while also addressing people’s concerns with MoC.