Guild Wars 2

I played a power necro, and the leveling process was both fun and easy, but now I want to have fun leveling a condi necro. However, I’m having some issues, and some things feel too awkward. What I’m feeling is that power is pretty straightforward, while condition simply does not work well for leveling..

So I’m using Scepter+Dagger and Staff. Also using Corruptions as utility, which are great. My first trait line is Curses, which also seems great, and my plan as second line after lvl 45 is going Spite to get the free self might buffs.

My main problems with this character is related to equipment and Death Shroud..

For example, when going power necro, using Minor Sigil of Bloodlust at 25 stacks could more than double my dps at lower levels. Now with Minor Sigil of Corruption I don’t see that much increase to overall dps. What it seems is that power simply scales much better at lower levels than condition.

Also, before lvl 20 I have to choose between power or condition equipment. Going power was really straightforward, but now if I choose to go full condition I simply don’t have enough dps, and trying to destroy turrets or other event objects is a pain. After lvl 20 I can have access to two stats on equips, but seems power+condition simply is not available at Auction House. Then again I have to go with something like precision+condition, which is out of place.

Finally, Death Shroud. When going power, DS seemed great, and #1 skill can deliver a good punch, specially with the piercing. But as condition, DS seems to be only useful to get some AoE torment through #5, and in fact staying longer in DS is pretty bad since I stop outputting my conditions.

TL;DR:
I would like some tips for leveling as condi necro, specially related to equipment and the use of DS.
- How can I get power+condition equipment at lvl 20? And Sinister for later?
- Should I mix power equips with condition equips instead of going full condition?
- Should I delay the Spite line and hurry to Dhuumfire to make better use of DS?
- Other tips?

Using soul reaping spec and dhuumfire is definitely the best choice if you’re condi and want to use DS. Burning is the highest condi dmg.
Scepter/dagger and staff are also the best weapon choices.
Power does scale better at lower level but once you got dhuumfire you’ll do much better dmg in DS.

I would get Rampager gears, they give you the most condi dmg cause it has precision too. If you feel like you need some toughness you could switch some gears with Rabid.
But to be honest, before lvl 45 just pick up what you think is best it doesn’t really matter.

As far as tips, the thing with condi builds is, Sinister is the best stat but you can only get it at 80 and you have to craft it yourself. So you probably won’t feel like condi is really worth it until you get there, but that’s not because it’s bad.

You are better of leveling with Spite first. Then maybe Blood Magic followed by Soul Reaping and Curses. I’d level Death Magic last.

And don’t bother with condi sub 80. Power is leaps and bounds better (not anywhere near perfect) for low levels.

I love condi, and I’ll freely admit it’s not as easy to level with. You will have problems with objects until you hit the three stat gear. There is no power/condition two stat gear, so that’s not an option. If you want to level condi, I would do a mix of power and condi gear until you hit the level where you can get carrion gear (condi/power/vitality) and that should get you through to lvl 80. Don’t worry about crafting gear until then, unless you are leveling your crafting professions at the same time as you are leveling (which is a good way to level yourself too, especially with boosters).

The weapons you picked are spot on. I’m leveling a condi necro now. One thing that can help is to pick up some minions, they add to your direct damage and provide targets for the enemies while you throw out conditions. I’m also doing Curses first, and so far it’s working out pretty well. (at level 23 now).

Condi is actually fine for leveling. You’ll be able to find Rampagers and Carrion stats eventually which are ideal.

Power is generally better when you are already “above” the mobs you face. Being downscaled, of the mobs being lost level then you will end up with them literally exploding on touch. However, you can get a lot more experience per kill when you start fighting things much higher level than you. Condi is perfect with kiting, and you’ll need to kite when the mobs can 1-2 shot you at 9 levels above your own. In addition, those higher levels have a weakness effect, where much of your damage is going to be glancing. Condi doesn’t suffer from that.

I’ve leveled 18+ characters almost entirely without tomes, so I’m familiar with the leveling process via pve/eotm. Hybrid is the best of both worlds, but you won’t really start getting those pieces until later like you’ve mentioned. Until then, pick either power+prec or prec+condi and run with it. Also, having the capability for frequent aoe placement is ideal for quickly grouping up and annihilating mobs. You’ll almost always have sufficient 1v1 capabilities for things like champs in any build.

Spite is fine, because might enhances both Power and condi, so you’re on the right track there. Spite also has a lot of vuln, which does the same as might. Death might also be a decent option because your minions can provide protection, aggro control, condition damage later on, and supplement power damage immediately. If you do go Death, then Blood is a good pairing because of the life steal adding pretty decent additional damage and healing. Soul Reaping is more of a long term investment unless you go power, because you’ll only be adding appreciable condition damage once it’s fully unlocked.

Remember, your leveling build doesn’t have to, and probably shouldn’t look like a level 80 build. Grab what gives you the most benefit the soonest.

For leveling I generally go with what ever gear has the highest Stats for DPS or Armor.

So if you are leveling with a Scepter that does 100 DPS/Sec but all of a sudden an Axe drops that does 150 DPS/sec I may switch weapons until a new Scepter drops for me.

As for Armor I normally Tank in games and that is why I go for highest ARM start most of the time, but if you have pets to take hits for you then go with what ever has a higher DPS Stat for you, Condi, Power, etc..

But really leveling, stay away from the Auction Hall and use whatever gear you get from Drops, Quests, or Crafting. You can level so quickly that that level 20 Dagger you just picked up will get replaced in a day by that level 22 Dagger that dropped.

The only time I really look at Gear Stats is at level 80 and then you pretty much want to go either all Berserker or Sinister/Viper (whatever you can get)

Condi low level is terrible due to how level/condi stats change depending on the level.
Power/minion mancer is best (minion for most fun) low level with condi coming into play mid- higher leveling.

Thing is, there is no such thing as a pure Condi PvE Necro build in this game. Condition Necromancers use Power and Precision in addition to Condi and Ex. So yes, if you go Condi-only you will get very bad results. At 55+ you are golden since that’s where 3-stat gear comes into play. You craft or buy Rampager gear and you are set. Before that tho you probably need to mix some gear. Let’s say Power/Prec with Condi/Prec. Should be fine. Spite should be your first tree pick. It debuffs opponents with Vulnerability and gives you Might. Both give ton of DPS. Cursers should be your second tree, Soul Reaping or Death Magic your third. Scepter+Dagger should be your weapons of choice. Staff on the switch should be fine. Start the fight by landing some circles and then change to Scepter.
Use “Blood is Power” and “Corrosive Posion Cloud” on the utility bar and send the Condis with Dagger 4 to your targets. Epidemic is also nice for AoE coverage.

Sun Lian.4075:

As far as tips, the thing with condi builds is, Sinister is the best stat but you can only get it at 80 and you have to craft it yourself. So you probably won’t feel like condi is really worth it until you get there, but that’s not because it’s bad.

This is in no way true on lv 80. Necromancers do not use Sinister at all, we use Vipers.

I use some viper but I don’t think full viper is the best, stacking a lot of duration but less condi dmg can’t be good imo. Besides if you use the scepter trait you already got +50% duration on your good skills.

Sun Lian.4075:

I use some viper but I don’t think full viper is the best, stacking a lot of duration but less condi dmg can’t be good imo. Besides if you use the scepter trait you already got +50% duration on your good skills.

As very often recently on this subforum you are wrong again mate. And it’s so obvious that it does not even needs explaining why. Any sane Necro will support what I wrote. Wow, the things you write sometimes actually make me question if you even play Necro at all (yeah, yeah, I’ve seen pictuers you got a Necro, don’t bother). You very often sound like someone that has absolutelly no idea about his own class.

No, Sinisters are not the way to go. There is a Viper/Sinister variant (the main reason beeing that asc Viper trinkets are only obtainable from raids) but it’s worse than a full Viper.

Ok, if you say so. Obviously there is once again only one correct playstyle, I get it.

Sun Lian.4075:

Ok, if you say so. Obviously there is once again only one correct playstyle, I get it.

This is not a playstyle thing, this is a dps thing. In pve longer condis = better dps since there is nothing that removes them from mobs/bosses. This isn’t something you can once again put under playstyle. Viper gear > Sinister.

Sun Lian.4075:

Ok, if you say so. Obviously there is once again only one correct playstyle, I get it.

How you play is none of anyone’s concern mate. You can be a healing, support necro in Cleric’s if that’s your thing. If it makes you happy? Fine, be happy. The difference is that your personal quirks are your own business untill you start to give out advice. People come to these forums often for exactly that. If you give bad advice you somewhat “hurt” the one that asks the question. If you tell someone to get wrong gear it will waste their time and gold. If you tell them to take wrong skills during leveling, they can’t take that back. Etc. etc.

And be certain that there will always be somoene to call you out on writing bs. Me today, someone else tomorrow.

What bs? Lets get into detail then.
I know for a fact that the higher you stack something like expertise, the less valueable it becomes.
You’re gonna reach a point where you have enough duration and won’t really increase your dps by making it higher. And then its better to put more into condi dmg.
Maybe you’re the one thats inexperienced.

Sun Lian.4075:

What bs? Lets get into detail then.
I know for a fact that the higher you stack something like expertise, the less valueable it becomes.
You’re gonna reach a point where you have enough duration and won’t really increase your dps by making it higher. And then its better to put more into condi dmg.
Maybe you’re the one thats inexperienced.

Unless you go over 100% it is always better to have duration than damage. Always. Especially with necro when we have no modifiers to lengthen our condi duration with traits (yeah lingering curse lengthens scepter condis but only scepter so shroud and traits nono). And by going all out Viper’s and best in slot foods and utils, you get to about +76% condi duration for scepter condis and +66% for anything else.

So there is no way you could get better damage with Sinister. That is just not possible.

And here is the best in slot condi build for you to check out
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJBrhNyQDV3YzN4dDc4YxYwi+ZBgDQcOcIeEl6AfgNAA-TxhbABldQAoUnAAKBJV9HaV+R2DAoy9HIFAMLrA-e

Edit: And actually for situations where epidemic is useless, you take Rise!.

Sun Lian.4075:

What bs? Lets get into detail then.
I know for a fact that the higher you stack something like expertise, the less valueable it becomes.
You’re gonna reach a point where you have enough duration and won’t really increase your dps by making it higher. And then its better to put more into condi dmg.
Maybe you’re the one thats inexperienced.

And again, dead wrong. Full ascended Viper gear (excluding the Back which should be either Sinister or Rampager) gives a total of +40% of Condition Duration. Ofc, exotic gear will give around 5% less. You know what the max is? Surprise, surprise, 100%. The rest you cover with Runes/Sigils and Food. It is absolutely impossible to reach 100% with gear only.
Second, “Lingering Curse” does not add to the Condition Duration cap. It improvers the base duration of the conditions on the scepter skills themselves. Those skills are then further improved by the Experitise on Viper, increasing the damage immensly.

So basicly a 5 1/2 second Bleed from Scepter 1 becomes 7 3/4 second Bleed that is further increased by Expertise stacking the damage to absurd levels sometimes. Same principle for Sc2 Bleed and Sc3 Torment.

So yeah, sorry to pop your bubble again mate. “I know for a fact” that what you wrote is complete tosh. Better luck next time.

You both missed the point.

Sun Lian.4075:

You both missed the point.

What point? I thought your point was that Sinister is better and I just proven to you that, that is not the case, ever. Viper is always superior for pure condi and hybrid builds. End of discussion.

If you are intent on leveling Necromancer using a bleed build, I suggest doing so as a MM. The minions will hold aggro so you do not need to kite nearly as much. Minions also do directly damage to supplement your slow condition damage ramp-up. Making them explode is fun, too, in addition to the poison fields.

1. You can level with condi just fine. I’m doing it right now. It hasn’t been a problem.

2. While power works pretty well at all levels, precision does not. because of scaling, you can forget getting much in the way of crits unless you take soul reaping and snag Death perception, and even then only while in shroud.

3. I appreciate that people have figured out the most effective stat block for pumping out damage. However, that isn’t necessarily everyone’s goal in making a build. For some people, that doesn’t necessarily make it the most fun or natural for them build to play, and if you aren’t having fun, what’s the point?

4. Minions are helpful while leveling condi as they act as a useful distraction while your conditions have time to work. You don’t have to go into Death Magic (I’m still doing Curses first), you just need them for a distraction. And I’ve only had them die against vets/champs (and even then usually only one has to be replaced). My utilities are a mix of minions and corruption skills.

5. As far as equipment, I’m snagging all the condi stuff. Again, it’s working out fine, and I haven’t even grabbed the GM trait for scepter that adds more condi damage (I will, just don’t have enough HP just yet). And if there is something condi doesn’t work on (like objects), I hit it a couple times and the minions take care of it for me.