Guild Wars 2

Like, really, i thought with this patch maybe lich would not have been screwed over by anyone running boonstrip (like any random thief) but 1 stack? for real? this is even worse than it used to be now.

Well at least it stops one ping-pong every three seconds…

YAY they only need two CC’s to knock us around.. Cmon Guardians lets play LICH Ball!

It looks iffy, but we’ll see how it plays out. The positive is that getting your stability stripped from you no longer leaves you open to CC for the entire duration of the elite, but the negative is that since people don’t even need dedicated boon strip to remove stability anymore… Well, anyone whose build has heavy CC probably won’t be inconvenienced at all.

Holl!

Was using your spectral terror build – with FITG just one stack of stability reckon I might have to think again.

What do you reckon?

1 stack is laughable…

You don’t need boonstrip or corruption to remove stability now.. Thusly even a more subtle nerf to those skills..

Get out your fear walls maybe you can erode it away on someone I don’t know.. Perhaps in WvW

Was using FITG for WvW – but anyone who is not completely new to GW2 knows to spam CC on a Necro so with just 1 stack it now has no use at all.

Gonna go back to my 6/6/0/2/0 build I think.

RipInPepperoni’s (R.I.P.) to FitGrave…. WHY ANET, WHYYYYY?!

just go greater marks or reaper’s protection now

Was fun when cc spamming hammer warriors got confused when I wasn’t ping-ponging around – oh well, just sweet memories now

Rav.9475:

Was fun when cc spamming hammer warriors got confused when I wasn’t ping-ponging around – oh well, just sweet memories now

:(

They just want us necro’s in downstate more now, since they fixed those 16 traits.

Necromancer: Master of Death the Downed State

If I had the same down state as that practice Necro in the PvP waiting area I would gladly spend my entire time downed…

Holl.3109:

They just want us necro’s in downstate more now, since they fixed those 16 traits.

Necromancer: Master of Death the Downed State

LOL again…

This is a buff in any situations where you would have lost stability, which was pretty much any time you would have used Lich against competent players. Yes new stability is relatively easy to get through, but to chain CC Lich you end up “wasting” a lot of extra CCs, whereas before you would have just removed stability and done it better.

So lets get this straight, one MoDistraction charge on a mesmer can completely negate a Necromancers grandmaster trait… slow clap Wow anet, probs to you. probs. to. you.

(this is not even taking into account that 3 seconds is way too low and can be out-waited -.-)

whelp time to bow to our new Engi and Mesmer overlords

Mesmers with every daze on the table will turn this into a joke….unless they turn you into a moa first

This is complete BS Anet. All other elites AND even normal skills get multiple stacks (3 average) of stability. You give Lich 1? WTF?! Why do you hate us so much. You did fix a lot of downstate traits…95% of those are for MM’s and don’t matter….but thanks.

GhOst.4019:

This is complete BS Anet. All other elites AND even normal skills get multiple stacks (3 average) of stability. You give Lich 1? WTF?! Why do you hate us so much. You did fix a lot of downstate traits…95% of those are for MM’s and don’t matter….but thanks.

Tornado is only 1 stack/3 seconds as well.

I think anet actually enjoys trolling necros. What good have they done to this class other than set us up to loose even more power. It’s like 1 step forward, two steps back for the necros. Everyone goes forward or advances and we go backwards will getting crapped on. Guess In this game you need a class that unskilled players playing anet’a favorite classes can kill – necros. Thanks anet you get a gold star for trolling a percentage of your population.

Bhawb.7408:

This is a buff in any situations where you would have lost stability, which was pretty much any time you would have used Lich against competent players. Yes new stability is relatively easy to get through, but to chain CC Lich you end up “wasting” a lot of extra CCs, whereas before you would have just removed stability and done it better.

I agree with this. Whenever I went against another Necro in pvp that I knew was power/lich form, I always kept by boon strip(s)/blinds handy. When they popped lich I would just strip them, chain cc and they would usually die, run away in panick and/or pop out of lich form.

Although it’s not as important to get that first boon strip off from the get go, It will definitely be harder to solo-counter lich pressure over 20 seconds (6-7 pulses of stability). Having to boon strip or cc a lich every 3 seconds to remove stability, in addition to keeping them cced and not DPSing, is definitely a buff overall against players that actually know/knew how to counter it.

Of course it’s a nerf in all those situations where players never try to strip lich stability and just take lich DPS in the face until they hit the dirt. Now players will be able to “accidently” strip lich stability through use of cc skills.

Meanwhile, Dolyak Signet – a 60-second CD UTILITY, gets 10 stacks!

Wat.

cyanidecapsule.3926:

Meanwhile, Dolyak Signet – a 60-second CD UTILITY, gets 10 stacks!

Wat.

lol

i would say that the old stability on lich was more reliable but new stability will be you cant completely counter with 1 skill
it must suck to have ele’s tornado
lich has range
tornado doesnt have range
both only get 1 stab every 3 second
side note can you even interrupt the tornado?

Tadsoul.6951:

side note can you even interrupt the tornado?

Nope. Just like Plague in that regard.

The trait was bad before, it’s just as bad (a little worse) now.
They probably decided this because lich form already has passive damage mitigation,
adding a nearly-permanent-stability effect to it would be a bit too much.
If you could gap the duration with the shroud cooldown, you get some nasty rotations..
While i think this trait is terrible and should be fixed or replaced, i somewhat understand their decision regarding the stacks.

It’s better than it was.

I’d say that Power necro is now more viable than Terror. Corrupting got a hit, since we can’t really throw away our CCs besides golem charge to rip stacks, it’s just a nerf to corrupting Elites like RaO.

Corruptions are less valuable than before. D/P Thief strips stability better than Necro now.

Rym.1469:

It’s better than it was.

I’d say that Power necro is now more viable than Terror. Corrupting got a hit, since we can’t really throw away our CCs besides golem charge to rip stacks, it’s just a nerf to corrupting Elites like RaO.

Corruptions are less valuable than before. D/P Thief strips stability better than Necro now.

Uhm… if you corrupt stab it corrupts the whole thing, not just one stack of it.

Shiki.7148:

Rym.1469:

It’s better than it was.

I’d say that Power necro is now more viable than Terror. Corrupting got a hit, since we can’t really throw away our CCs besides golem charge to rip stacks, it’s just a nerf to corrupting Elites like RaO.

Corruptions are less valuable than before. D/P Thief strips stability better than Necro now.

Uhm… if you corrupt stab it corrupts the whole thing, not just one stack of it.

And then Stability reapplies, so you just bought yourself 3 more seconds with 40 second cooldown instead of shutting down the elite.

Its better against players with boon strip. Its worse against players with CC. Im not really sure about this change. On the one hand i dont think its completely unjustified due to how powerful Lich can be. On the other hand i think it might be shut down a bit too easily for an elite in some situations.

Rym.1469:

Shiki.7148:

Rym.1469:

It’s better than it was.

I’d say that Power necro is now more viable than Terror. Corrupting got a hit, since we can’t really throw away our CCs besides golem charge to rip stacks, it’s just a nerf to corrupting Elites like RaO.

Corruptions are less valuable than before. D/P Thief strips stability better than Necro now.

Uhm… if you corrupt stab it corrupts the whole thing, not just one stack of it.

And then Stability reapplies, so you just bought yourself 3 more seconds with 40 second cooldown instead of shutting down the elite.

Actually, nope, as stability doesn’t reapply as long as you are CC’d, at least it shouldn’t if they managed to code it correctly. Meaning : corrupt it, chain cc, RIP. Just like before. Fear->Fear->Fear-Daze->Immob. Thats a looooong time that they get CC’d before STAB reapplies, and, let’s be honest, after that you are out of CC’s as a Necro, anyways. The difference is now it takes more skill to chain the effects to get the most time out of it. Oh and you might even get a fourth fear after STAB has reapplied.

spoj.9672:

Its better against players with boon strip. Its worse against players with CC. Im not really sure about this change. On the one hand i dont think its completely unjustified due to how powerful Lich can be. On the other hand i think it might be shut down a bit too easily for an elite in some situations.

Honestly, Lich Form is so strong in PvP that I am worried that this will make it too strong and will necessitate a nerf elsewhere. In general it will depend on the team comp, but a CeleEngi and CeleDD will have to focus fire a Lich to even get one CC off, and then he gets his stability back in 2-3 seconds. To lock it down will require at least two classes burn a lot of cooldowns, and that’s especially dangerous given how strong the Lich’s attacks are.

I think people should stop talking theory and go try it. It’s bloody strong and very resilient to CC.

Yeah i agree. I think people are exaggerating the problem at the moment.

By the way, folks, Well of Corruption loooooves the pulsing stability elites.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

By the way, folks, Well of Corruption loooooves the pulsing stability elites.

Yes it does, yes it does :p

Lich form is really strong right now because of how difficult it is to shut down in a fight compared to before. Also, with how strong downed state is now, its not even like focusing the necro into downed state is that big, since they do more damage in downed state than normally.

Bhawb.7408:

Lich form is really strong right now because of how difficult it is to shut down in a fight compared to before. Also, with how strong downed state is now, its not even like focusing the necro into downed state is that big, since they do more damage in downed state than normally.

That is how Anet’s balances, lol

+50% damage while downed trait will really shien now, i could already deal over 2k damage with necro downed skill 3 (per tick), downed necro newmeta

cyanidecapsule.3926:

Meanwhile, Dolyak Signet – a 60-second CD UTILITY, gets 10 stacks!

Wat.

Why are you still surprised by Anet’s lovechild getting all the goodies for zero effort? At least one class has to wear the mantle of spamtastic meathead.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

cyanidecapsule.3926:

Meanwhile, Dolyak Signet – a 60-second CD UTILITY, gets 10 stacks!

Wat.

Why are you still surprised by Anet’s lovechild getting all the goodies for zero effort? At least one class has to wear the mantle of spamtastic meathead.

Nevermind the fact the SoD is a defensive utility skill, while Lich is arguably the strongest offensive utility in the game.

The pulsing is an enormous buff against boonstrips. Prior patch, it was popping Lich, dashing out a few AAs, losing Stab, panic and pop out of Lich into DS, get CC’d, get rekt.
With the new changes, Lich became a much more fearsome elite than it’s used to be, but not an auto-win, hence the 1 stack of stab.

Learn to dodge certain skills in Lich if you think it’s necessary to prevent lockdown.
Although, 3s is not such a long window, despite that many people imply it is.

Overall, it made Lich a lot harder to counter, thus more meaningful in PvP.

This change to lich form is only a buff when boon removal is in the picture. It’s a big nerf in any other situation.

Was fighting some ice wurms in PvE yesterday, and they kept slinging rocks at me, knocking me around. I hardly noticed that one stack of stability.

I can imagine it being worse in PvP, but I’ve not used Lich Form in PvP since the stability patch.

It’s a big WvW nerf too, was ping ponged about mercilessly last night during our raid. Our necros all agreed it was a(nother) big nerf to Lich in this game mode.

PvE necro is another issue, essentially non-existent as far as I know, and is tied to other problems. Let’s stick with PvP as most of the thread is about concerns towards that gamemode.

Prior patch, popping Lich was essentially useless whenever an enemy:

• mesmer
• thief
• necromancer

was involved in that fight. It meant a guaranteed counter to Lich, making a 180s cd skill completely useless when those counters were present – quite often.

However, if these classes and thus boonstripping were not present, popping Lich was an easy auto-win skill (easy snipe, easy on point pressure), with absolutely no counterplay.
It was “run or die” with a bit of oversimplification, which is quite bad design in my opinion.

Now, this “default” advantage – from both sides – is gone.

One has X amounts of CC. A control class (a hambow warrior for example) can make a decision to use one of his CC abilities to burn through the stab stack, leaving himself with X-1 CC skills at the end of the process and only a 3s window to follow up with his chain (that has one less CC skill) before the next pulse is up again.

Not many classes have enough CC skills on their own to burn through the stab and still lock you down with a rotation afterwards. Obviously, Focus fire is a different case, but then again, Lich was essentially weak against FF prior patch, it still is post pach. So I see no nerf in that area.

Shiki.7148:

Rym.1469:

Shiki.7148:

Rym.1469:

It’s better than it was.

I’d say that Power necro is now more viable than Terror. Corrupting got a hit, since we can’t really throw away our CCs besides golem charge to rip stacks, it’s just a nerf to corrupting Elites like RaO.

Corruptions are less valuable than before. D/P Thief strips stability better than Necro now.

Uhm… if you corrupt stab it corrupts the whole thing, not just one stack of it.

And then Stability reapplies, so you just bought yourself 3 more seconds with 40 second cooldown instead of shutting down the elite.

Actually, nope, as stability doesn’t reapply as long as you are CC’d, at least it shouldn’t if they managed to code it correctly. Meaning : corrupt it, chain cc, RIP. Just like before. Fear->Fear->Fear-Daze->Immob. Thats a looooong time that they get CC’d before STAB reapplies, and, let’s be honest, after that you are out of CC’s as a Necro, anyways. The difference is now it takes more skill to chain the effects to get the most time out of it. Oh and you might even get a fourth fear after STAB has reapplied.

Stability reapplies even when CC’d. I think what you’re thinking is that it doesn’t break the stun, which it doesn’t. But you can’t just continually chain cc and prevent them from getting any stab, what would be the point of that with this change?

As has been mentioned, this is a buff against boon strip classes and a nerf in almost every other situation. Looks like lich won’t be much use in any bigger fights if the other team has a brain or enough people.

Palmski.6419:

It’s a big WvW nerf too, was ping ponged about mercilessly last night during our raid. Our necros all agreed it was a(nother) big nerf to Lich in this game mode.

Unfortunately WvW balance is way out of hand at this point, with all the damage modifiers and foods/oils/stones in the game.
I agree, it’s a sad state, that the gamemode has been in nearly since launch.

Roe.3679:

[…]
Looks like lich won’t be much use in any bigger fights if the other team has a brain or enough people.

…which was the case up until now being extremely susceptible to boonstrips.

People expected Lich to be turned into an extremely overwhelming auto-win by this patch.
It didn’t happen, and the skill currently is only overwhelming , which is why people are disappointed.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

GhOst.4019:

This is complete BS Anet. All other elites AND even normal skills get multiple stacks (3 average) of stability. You give Lich 1? WTF?! Why do you hate us so much. You did fix a lot of downstate traits…95% of those are for MM’s and don’t matter….but thanks.

Tornado is only 1 stack/3 seconds as well.

But it’s….tornado. 1st: No one uses it and therefore doesn’t effect builds. 2nd: It has mass CC by throwing people around. If Lich had AOE throws while active, I would be cool with 1 stack. Should have been 2, as 3 would have been a bit OP.

Honestly? Having personally played a ton of mid-high ranked PvP since patch, and having watched the Abjured wipe the board with a power Necromancer repeatedly since patch, I can safely say that the pulsing Stability was a major buff and that Lich Form does not need more stacks.

The change to Lich Form is a trade-off for sure, but I don’t feel it was unreasonable.

FitG is another discussion completely, since the stability change did nothing to fix this already underpowered skill. For a GM trait that requires giving up 50% crit rate, the single short duration stability is laughable.

Lich is far stronger now than it was before. The pulsing stability is a buff whenever boon ripping is present, aka almost all of PvP where Lich is worth popping. The only time this won’t be a buff is in WvW against hammer trains, which were also nerfed.