Guild Wars 2

I guess it has happened to everyone that they engage in a 1v1 against a necro and when you think you almost got him he suddenly pops his death shroud that he piled up to 100% during last fight. This mechanism should be toned down a bit IMHO.

I’d suggest limiting life force to 50% outside combat, especially since in form of bugs there are many walls/floors in Khylo, Skyhammer and the Stronghold map that you can autoattack for free life force(which should be fixed too).

On the other hand it’s very limiting in terms of rotations when necros start at 0 life force so the out of combat life force could go up to 10% min.(which is the minimum requirement to acces death shroud).

Before flaming at me for suggesting a -partial- nerf for necro, think about that 50% life force is still plenty and that warriors lose all their adren outside fights.

This is an old suggestion and i approve it but i think it should be 20% min (like it is on most dueling server) and 50% max outside of combat.

It’s 20% max on dueling servers and people have the 20% because they can abuse changing utilities.
Necro is supposed to collect life force by nature, if u make the minimum too high it becomes a revenant. Well 20% tops. But 10% is just enough to acces a few skills from ds quickly.

Kicker.8203:

It’s 20% max on dueling servers and people have the 20% because they can abuse changing utilities.
Necro is supposed to collect life force by nature, if u make the minimum too high it becomes a revenant. Well 20% tops. But 10% is just enough to acces a few skills from ds quickly.

And? I still think that 20% would be the lowest LF we should start with and not 10% but ether way i doubt it will be changed considering the fact we had this discussion in the necro forums a dozen of times already and never anything happened…

It should be at least 25% lf at the start. That way you aren’t ganked at the start of a match. Revenant’s already start out with 50% so why not? Oh, and warriors can build 3 tiers of adrenaline faster than a Necro getting LF.

Considering that life force is the reason anet won’t give us better defensives it’s like saying that your defensives should be on cool down at the start of the fight but with no benefits. Life force is really all they have.

Zalavaaris.5329:

Considering that life force is the reason anet won’t give us better defensives it’s like saying that your defensives should be on cool down at the start of the fight but with no benefits. Life force is really all they have.

more like defences on cool down with reduced duration

but if the do this to ds then they better give necro invulne evades and blocks

I strongly believe it’s not worth it at least with just starting LF which should be baseline.

Lifeforce should just regen out of combat, because with this meta, a necro with no lifeforce is a dead necro. They’ve used this “second life bar” as an excuse to not make us better time and time again. Well then, give us that 2nd life bar. It should by all means regen out of combat.

Ever tried to fight a Mesmer or Thief without lifeforce? You might as well not try, seriously.

gavyne.6847:

Lifeforce should just regen out of combat, because with this meta, a necro with no lifeforce is a dead necro. They’ve used this “second life bar” as an excuse to not make us better time and time again. Well then, give us that 2nd life bar. It should by all means regen out of combat.

Ever tried to fight a Mesmer or Thief without lifeforce? You might as well not try, seriously.

One thing I’ve never understood is, well… If it’s a second life bar……… What does your hp do outside of combat?

……….

It regens

Vydahr.4285:

gavyne.6847:

Lifeforce should just regen out of combat, because with this meta, a necro with no lifeforce is a dead necro. They’ve used this “second life bar” as an excuse to not make us better time and time again. Well then, give us that 2nd life bar. It should by all means regen out of combat.

Ever tried to fight a Mesmer or Thief without lifeforce? You might as well not try, seriously.

One thing I’ve never understood is, well… If it’s a second life bar……… What does your hp do outside of combat?

……….

It regens

well is not really a second life bar is more like a soul bar it increased with sealed (deads)souls or soul steals aka building lf by hiting enemy

Brokensunday.4098:

Vydahr.4285:

gavyne.6847:

Lifeforce should just regen out of combat, because with this meta, a necro with no lifeforce is a dead necro. They’ve used this “second life bar” as an excuse to not make us better time and time again. Well then, give us that 2nd life bar. It should by all means regen out of combat.

Ever tried to fight a Mesmer or Thief without lifeforce? You might as well not try, seriously.

One thing I’ve never understood is, well… If it’s a second life bar……… What does your hp do outside of combat?

……….

It regens

well is not really a second life bar is more like a soul bar it increased with sealed (deads)souls or soul steals aka building lf by hiting enemy

It was sold to us a life bar when they refused to give us better defenses. But ya know, we obviously aren’t playing it correctly and thats our issue.

Zalavaaris.5329:

Brokensunday.4098:

Vydahr.4285:

gavyne.6847:

Lifeforce should just regen out of combat, because with this meta, a necro with no lifeforce is a dead necro. They’ve used this “second life bar” as an excuse to not make us better time and time again. Well then, give us that 2nd life bar. It should by all means regen out of combat.

Ever tried to fight a Mesmer or Thief without lifeforce? You might as well not try, seriously.

One thing I’ve never understood is, well… If it’s a second life bar……… What does your hp do outside of combat?

……….

It regens

well is not really a second life bar is more like a soul bar it increased with sealed (deads)souls or soul steals aka building lf by hiting enemy

It was sold to us a life bar when they refused to give us better defenses. But ya know, we obviously aren’t playing it correctly and thats our issue.

yeah they sold it like that but what can we do eh? and ds drains so fast under presure X_X

You’re entirely mistaken in your perception of life force. It’s not like Warrior’s adrenaline, which he builds in combat.
It’s supposed to regenerate mainly through nearby deaths and specific skills. We can’t regenerate it efficiently in combat, unless heavily traited for it. That’s why we’re supposed to prepare it beforehand. And that’s why we can and Warriors can’t.

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

I think DS would just get burned down faster with those changes. As it is, you can get up to 9 sec of pseudo-invuln by using Spectral Armor (added 33% damage reduction and 8% LF every second when hit.) That can survive focus fire fairly well in my experience (you’re still outta luck if you don’t wear down your opponent in that time frame, but eh)

That being said, I think DS could be made more of an actual defense mechanism if it gets more of that kind of augmentation. I don’t see the point of making it less effective than it already is

Vydahr.4285:

That being said, I think DS could be made more of an actual defense mechanism if it gets more of that kind of augmentation. I don’t see the point of making it less effective than it already is

The point is that Death Shroud shouldn’t (in my opinion) be something you sit in for 60 seconds after building for a long time. You should build it quickly, and then use it instead of building up an effective HP pool of 66 thousand which is what you have with vitality-focused gear and full life force against direct damage. Instead, drop that number so that you don’t have the potential to tank massive amounts of damage in one sitting, and instead be able to build full LF extremely quickly but it also goes away somewhat fast, and at the same time give it proper defenses, like invulns, blinds, etc.

The point isn’t to nerf DS at all, it shifts the effectiveness from DS being something that is extremely hard to build and ranges from useless to insanely powerful while full, to something that is quick to build and used often, but only moderately powerful with each full bar.

i strongly disagree with this unless it applies only in pvp.
in wvw, i like running around with full life force and that is how it should be.

enemies in wvw are bigger badder and nastier. they hit harder, survive better, kite more and literally are a bigger badder nastier wolf compared to PvP.
so no i want my 100% LF in WvW.

not every build caters to easy lifeforce building.
and no i don’t want to be pigeonholed into taking a lifeforce building build.

Bhawb.7408:

Vydahr.4285:

That being said, I think DS could be made more of an actual defense mechanism if it gets more of that kind of augmentation. I don’t see the point of making it less effective than it already is

The point is that Death Shroud shouldn’t (in my opinion) be something you sit in for 60 seconds after building for a long time. You should build it quickly, and then use it instead of building up an effective HP pool of 66 thousand which is what you have with vitality-focused gear and full life force against direct damage. Instead, drop that number so that you don’t have the potential to tank massive amounts of damage in one sitting, and instead be able to build full LF extremely quickly but it also goes away somewhat fast, and at the same time give it proper defenses, like invulns, blinds, etc.

The point isn’t to nerf DS at all, it shifts the effectiveness from DS being something that is extremely hard to build and ranges from useless to insanely powerful while full, to something that is quick to build and used often, but only moderately powerful with each full bar.

If those changes really did make it balance out and (potentially) improve it with more effective defenses, I’d be perfectly happy with it. However, I don’t see why getting rid of the Not So Secret 50% damage reduction would help it. Unless it were replaced with something equally as powerful, DS would be gone in about 2 seconds (you mentioned invuln, but I’m not sure how that could be made to work)

Also, side not… A good way to make it easier to build LF would be if Spectral skills were more effective on builds other than Spectral/Spectral Well tank builds. Because, kitten . Those skills are good at LF generation (well.. SA and SWalk are. Wall… Not so much. Though SG can give you 20% on hit when traited so not bad there either)

As others have already pointed out, you cannot compare Adrenaline to Death Shroud. Necromancers use Death Shroud for both offense and defense and, on certain builds such as those that might not go into Soul Reaping to take Soul Marks, aren’t able to build lifeforce as reliably or as quickly as warriors can build adrenaline.

Admittedly though, for those that do take staff and Soul Marks, building up lifeforce is a little better compared to prepatch.

Usagi.4835:

As others have already pointed out, you cannot compare Adrenaline to Death Shroud. Necromancers use Death Shroud for both offense and defense and, on certain builds such as those that might not go into Soul Reaping to take Soul Marks, aren’t able to build lifeforce as reliably or as quickly as warriors can build adrenaline.

Admittedly though, for those that do take staff and Soul Marks, building up lifeforce is a little better compared to prepatch.

this^

lifeforce is our defense!

we dont have invulnerability
we dont have stability
we dont have block
we dont have blind
we dont have blink
we dont have invis
we dont have immune physical damage
we dont have immune condi damage
we dont have leaps
we dont have teleports
we dont have grabs

we only have life force.

Design for necro: you dont have everything because you have 2 life bars.

TWO LIFE BARS

we should start with 100% lifeforce if any changes need to be made.

Vydahr.4285:

However, I don’t see why getting rid of the Not So Secret 50% damage reduction would help it. Unless it were replaced with something equally as powerful, DS would be gone in about 2 seconds (you mentioned invuln, but I’m not sure how that could be made to work)

One of the biggest problems with current DS is that it is absolutely oppressive in a 1v1 when fully filled. There is no reason a Necro should ever lose a 1v1 unless they are just completely hard countered if they have 100% life force, it is a 120% boost to their eHP to start the fight, imagine fighting a Warrior with 40k HP. This lowers that, and while each life force bar might be 50% less, if they fill up 3x as fast you end up stronger overall.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Usagi.4835:

As others have already pointed out, you cannot compare Adrenaline to Death Shroud. Necromancers use Death Shroud for both offense and defense and, on certain builds such as those that might not go into Soul Reaping to take Soul Marks, aren’t able to build lifeforce as reliably or as quickly as warriors can build adrenaline.

Admittedly though, for those that do take staff and Soul Marks, building up lifeforce is a little better compared to prepatch.

this^

lifeforce is our defense!

we dont have invulnerability
we dont have stability
we dont have block
we dont have blind
we dont have blink
we dont have invis
we dont have immune physical damage
we dont have immune condi damage
we dont have leaps
we dont have teleports
we dont have grabs

we only have life force.

Design for necro: you dont have everything because you have 2 life bars.

TWO LIFE BARS

we should start with 100% lifeforce if any changes need to be made.

if they were 2 real life bars then it need to regen to max out of combat lol
you forgot we don’t have evades

Brokensunday.4098:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Usagi.4835:

As others have already pointed out, you cannot compare Adrenaline to Death Shroud. Necromancers use Death Shroud for both offense and defense and, on certain builds such as those that might not go into Soul Reaping to take Soul Marks, aren’t able to build lifeforce as reliably or as quickly as warriors can build adrenaline.

Admittedly though, for those that do take staff and Soul Marks, building up lifeforce is a little better compared to prepatch.

this^

lifeforce is our defense!

we dont have invulnerability
we dont have stability
we dont have block
we dont have blind
we dont have blink
we dont have invis
we dont have immune physical damage
we dont have immune condi damage
we dont have leaps
we dont have teleports
we dont have grabs

we only have life force.

Design for necro: you dont have everything because you have 2 life bars.

TWO LIFE BARS

we should start with 100% lifeforce if any changes need to be made.

if they were 2 real life bars then it need to regen to max out of combat lol
you forgot we don’t have evades

you’re right. if any changes need to be made, we should always regen to 100% lifeforce out of combat.

as long as D/D cele ele and rampage warriors are allowed to run around with the strength they have, I don’t want to see our life force get NERFED like that for no particular reason.

Not only that, but we generate life force from enemies dieing. If it returned to 50 or 20% out of combat, that entire quality of our life force generation will be meaningless and we will be nothing more than less powerful warriors mechanically.

If ANYTHING should happen, we should always spawn with 20% life force when we start a PvP match or revive after dieing.

Bhawb.7408:

Vydahr.4285:

That being said, I think DS could be made more of an actual defense mechanism if it gets more of that kind of augmentation. I don’t see the point of making it less effective than it already is

The point is that Death Shroud shouldn’t (in my opinion) be something you sit in for 60 seconds after building for a long time. You should build it quickly, and then use it instead of building up an effective HP pool of 66 thousand which is what you have with vitality-focused gear and full life force against direct damage. Instead, drop that number so that you don’t have the potential to tank massive amounts of damage in one sitting, and instead be able to build full LF extremely quickly but it also goes away somewhat fast, and at the same time give it proper defenses, like invulns, blinds, etc.

The point isn’t to nerf DS at all, it shifts the effectiveness from DS being something that is extremely hard to build and ranges from useless to insanely powerful while full, to something that is quick to build and used often, but only moderately powerful with each full bar.

My main issue is that I don’t think DS/RS should be our primary defense mechanism. I think they need to abandon the idea of DS/RS being an extra health bar and allow us to have some decent active defenses like every other profession…available at all times. I like that you will be able to trait for cold shoulder and putrid defense…in order to add some survivability to RS/DS, but the built in damage reductions need to go. It should really be like an engineer equipping a kit…damaging us should not take away life force. The only things that take life force away should be use of skills that require life force. The whole reason they refuse to give us active defenses is that they refuse to decouple our survivability from RS/DS. This also is the reason they won’t let us have access to our utilities in RS/DS. Decoupling survivability from RS/DS solves both of these issues and gives us real functionality. It would allow us to be balanced with other classes without this failed “attrition” model strangling us. It would remove the issue you were talking about with full defensive gear and full life force…versus full offensive gear with full life force…the life force wouldn’t be anywhere near as much of a factor anymore.

I do want there to be builds where you do stay in RS/DS as long as possible. I want there to also be builds where shroud is only used sparingly….build variety. I think the combination of the upcoming reaper elite spec, in combination with the existing soul reaping spec…would lend nicely to a build where your primary focus is maximizing RS and utilizing RS abilities.

Bhawb.7408:

Vydahr.4285:

However, I don’t see why getting rid of the Not So Secret 50% damage reduction would help it. Unless it were replaced with something equally as powerful, DS would be gone in about 2 seconds (you mentioned invuln, but I’m not sure how that could be made to work)

One of the biggest problems with current DS is that it is absolutely oppressive in a 1v1 when fully filled. There is no reason a Necro should ever lose a 1v1 unless they are just completely hard countered if they have 100% life force, it is a 120% boost to their eHP to start the fight, imagine fighting a Warrior with 40k HP. This lowers that, and while each life force bar might be 50% less, if they fill up 3x as fast you end up stronger overall.

You forget that it degenrates at a pace that is competely BS, so the “120% eHP” are maybe like 80% eHP depending on how long you have to stay in shroud. And against conditions, the shroud just blows up…well, as long as you do not have plague sending ready, that is.

If you made it 50% less “hp” + the other changes, you’d also need to make it NOT degenrate, start out with 50% filled, and NOT take away the 50% direct damage reduction…lest you also want them to add active defenses to a new shroud 5-0 skill.

we should start with 100% LF.
this is our only defensive tool.
we got nothing else.
and that is also how we were designed.

so 100% LF is only fair.
we don’t ask other classes to start with less blocks or less invulnerability or less vigor or less protection or shorter duration immunities etc.

SO PLEASE DON’T ASK US TO START WITH LESS Lifeforce. IT IS OUR DEFENSE!

we dont have invulnerability
we dont have stability
we dont have block
we dont have blind
we dont have blink
we dont have invis
we dont have immune physical damage
we dont have immune condi damage
we dont have leaps
we dont have teleports
we dont have grabs
we dont have vigor
we dont have evades
we dont have protection

I’m all for 100% ds. To the guy above me, we do have protection.

EremiteAngel.9765:

we should start with 100% LF.
this is our only defensive tool.
we got nothing else.
and that is also how we were designed.

so 100% LF is only fair.
we don’t ask other classes to start with less blocks or less invulnerability or less vigor or less protection or shorter duration immunities etc.

SO PLEASE DON’T ASK US TO START WITH LESS Lifeforce. IT IS OUR DEFENSE!

we dont have invulnerability
we dont have stability
we dont have block
we dont have blind
we dont have blink
we dont have invis
we dont have immune physical damage
we dont have immune condi damage
we dont have leaps
we dont have teleports
we dont have grabs
we dont have vigor
we dont have evades
we dont have protection

We have some of these things. They need refining but we have them.
Also 100% would be to much to start at. I honestly think we should start at 10 or 20%. No point in being locked out of the class mechanic which entirely holds us back.

When a Thief asks in dual to reset my LF to = I just calmly respond “sure but dont use stealth in first 10sec”… DS is our ONLY defence and on Power Necro our best offence but its NOT Invun cause we dont have any… any decent Warrior,Medi-Guard,Thief,Pew Pew Ranger and Mesm can get our full DS to zero within a rotation. If the target pops stab then go crazy we have very little time. DS is an inferior defence mechanic in gw2 cause it dosent SCALE with 1vX. Everytime I see these threads it cause some player just lost a 1v1 vs a Necro and if that Necor was Power Specced and you are NOT an Engi maybe instead of makeing a thread u should l2p first.

Sigmoid.7082:

EremiteAngel.9765:

we should start with 100% LF.
this is our only defensive tool.
we got nothing else.
and that is also how we were designed.

so 100% LF is only fair.
we don’t ask other classes to start with less blocks or less invulnerability or less vigor or less protection or shorter duration immunities etc.

SO PLEASE DON’T ASK US TO START WITH LESS Lifeforce. IT IS OUR DEFENSE!

we dont have invulnerability
we dont have stability
we dont have block
we dont have blind
we dont have blink
we dont have invis
we dont have immune physical damage
we dont have immune condi damage
we dont have leaps
we dont have teleports
we dont have grabs
we dont have vigor
we dont have evades
we dont have protection

We have some of these things. They need refining but we have them.
Also 100% would be to much to start at. I honestly think we should start at 10 or 20%. No point in being locked out of the class mechanic which entirely holds us back.

I use DS as more of a ‘oh kitten’ moment when you get stun locked and you need to enter your DS to tank the damage.

other people can depend on evade or block or invulnerability or blink or invis to get out of the ‘oh kitten’ moment but we dont have those.

we have to absorb all the damage with our DS.

That is why we should start with 100% DS.

Ravezaar.4951:

…DS is an inferior defence mechanic in gw2 cause it dosent SCALE with 1vX…

This^

This is one of soooo many reasons why they need to stop trying to have DS/RS as our defense mechanic. It is apparently too much for them to balance that properly. Strengthen it versus more than one attacker…and it is completely OP versus one attacker. They could try making it scale versus the number of attackers. They already have the code in game to do exactly that…its what they use to scale bosses in open world. The problem with that is that it would make DS/RS ridiculous in WvW. The only real solution would be to remove the second health bar function of RS/DS and have it only work like an engineer’s kit…based on life force as a resource. Take away the whole part about being attacked taking away life force. It would be like a combination of warrior’s adrenaline and engineer’s kit. Just let us have our utilities/active defenses in place of using DS/RS as a failed hp sponge.

ODB.6891:

Ravezaar.4951:

…DS is an inferior defence mechanic in gw2 cause it dosent SCALE with 1vX…

This^

This is one of soooo many reasons why they need to stop trying to have DS/RS as our defense mechanic. It is apparently too much for them to balance that properly. Strengthen it versus more than one attacker…and it is completely OP versus one attacker. They could try making it scale versus the number of attackers. They already have the code in game to do exactly that…its what they use to scale bosses in open world. The problem with that is that it would make DS/RS ridiculous in WvW. The only real solution would be to remove the second health bar function of RS/DS and have it only work like an engineer’s kit…based on life force as a resource. Take away the whole part about being attacked taking away life force. It would be like a combination of warrior’s adrenaline and engineer’s kit. Just let us have our utilities/active defenses in place of using DS/RS as a failed hp sponge.

i guess this works too.
take away its use as a 2nd health bar.

modify all our existing mechanisms to include more defensive abilities.

example:

shroud 2 should become instant cast, blink and stun break + its current chill.

spectral grasp should become instant cast, blink and stun break + its current chill.

spectral walk should become immunity to all damage for its duration and stunbreak on return.

wells should give added protection boon on cast with pulsing stability

signets should give added aegis boon on cast

corruptions should have their effectiveness amplified by at least 1.5 times.

scepter 3 should add stun for 3 seconds on hit

etc

um…are we sure we want to remove DS as a 2nd healthbar?

if we do that, there are too many things that needs to be changed for a necro.
hell everything will have to change.

EremiteAngel.9765:

ODB.6891:

Ravezaar.4951:

…DS is an inferior defence mechanic in gw2 cause it dosent SCALE with 1vX…

This^

This is one of soooo many reasons why they need to stop trying to have DS/RS as our defense mechanic. It is apparently too much for them to balance that properly. Strengthen it versus more than one attacker…and it is completely OP versus one attacker. They could try making it scale versus the number of attackers. They already have the code in game to do exactly that…its what they use to scale bosses in open world. The problem with that is that it would make DS/RS ridiculous in WvW. The only real solution would be to remove the second health bar function of RS/DS and have it only work like an engineer’s kit…based on life force as a resource. Take away the whole part about being attacked taking away life force. It would be like a combination of warrior’s adrenaline and engineer’s kit. Just let us have our utilities/active defenses in place of using DS/RS as a failed hp sponge.

i guess this works too.
take away its use as a 2nd health bar.

modify all our existing mechanisms to include more defensive abilities.

example:

shroud 2 should become instant cast, blink and stun break + its current chill.

spectral grasp should become instant cast, blink and stun break + its current chill.

spectral walk should become immunity to all damage for its duration and stunbreak on return.

wells should give added protection boon on cast with pulsing stability

signets should give added aegis boon on cast

corruptions should have their effectiveness amplified by at least 1.5 times.

scepter 3 should add stun for 3 seconds on hit

etc

um…are we sure we want to remove DS as a 2nd healthbar?

if we do that, there are too many things that needs to be changed for a necro.
hell everything will have to change.

I think your suggestions are on the right track. Some of it may be a bit much though.
Stun on ranged weapon is wrong imo.
I wouldn’t attach stability to wells…would pretty much make them mandatory
I like the aegis on signet cast, since I see necros/reapers as dark themed guardians
I think spectral walk still needs to stun break on cast, but it definitely needs the immunity
DS/RS 2 should both be instant cast just like you suggest…I would include an evade instead of stun break though…and yes…they both should leap/teleport the caster
Spectral grasp needs to be a self teleport to target …no cast time
Reflect on spectral wall
Projectile destruction on corrosive poison cloud
CD reduction on spectral armor + longer protection duration + stability
Corruptions do need to be stronger…with exception of BiP maybe
Remove the cast times on RS auto and RS 2.

I 100% say yes, to being sure about removing the second health bar function. Its the one true thing holding this profession back from improvement/balance. It may seem like a lot of work to make these changes, but its really not. Sprinkling around existing mechanics onto existing skills similar to what the other professions have would be just a repeat of what they already did with every other professions…only not having to start from scratch…pretty much a copy/paste…or better yet…forum balance like they do already and just use our suggestions.

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

chibbi.3706:

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

no you don’t normal damage is apply

chibbi.3706:

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

Yes, why do you think it takes double the time to burst a necro in DS?

But honestly currently we need that 50% damage reduction due the lack of any defense other then DS.

Muchacho.2390:

chibbi.3706:

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

Yes, why do you think it takes double the time to burst a necro in DS?

But honestly currently we need that 50% damage reduction due the lack of any defense other then DS.

Death Shroud is the necromancer’s unique mechanic providing some passive benefits and replacing the necromancer’s normal weapon skills with a fixed set of Death Shroud skills. It is fueled by life force and can be entered even while under control effects.

Death Shroud has a base 10-second recharge upon activation. Death Shroud ends either when the life force pool is completely depleted, or when manually deactivated. Leaving Death Shroud manually or due to life force depletion will trigger another 10-second cooldown before Death Shroud can be used again.
A minimum of 10% life force is required to enter Death Shroud.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer’s health is temporarily replaced by their life force pool, and all damage dealt will be inflicted to the life force pool instead of the necromancer’s normal health pool.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer naturally loses 4% of its total life force pool every second.
Necromancers cannot be healed while in Death Shroud (except for Unholy Sanctuary and Vampiric Presence). Effects that normally restore health will have no effect on either the life force pool or the necromancer’s regular health pool.
Skills and traits that refill life force will continue to function while in Death Shroud. However, the necromancer will not get life force from nearby deaths.
While in Death Shroud, upgrades, such as sigils, on the necromancer’s currently equipped weapon continue to function (with the exception of sigils that trigger on weapon swap). The weapon damage of the equipped weapon is applied to the Death Shroud skills, including any traits that affect the equipped weapon, such as Axe Training.
Traits and rune bonuses that trigger at health thresholds (such as Superior Rune of the Scholar) rely on the necromancer’s regular health pool, rather than their life force pool.

you don’t get any damage reduction try it for yourself let a thief bs you in ds and not in ds and come back
ds is affected by toughness so if trait on dm he will be hard to get out of ds

No.

. ~ .

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

chibbi.3706:

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

Yes, why do you think it takes double the time to burst a necro in DS?

But honestly currently we need that 50% damage reduction due the lack of any defense other then DS.

Death Shroud is the necromancer’s unique mechanic providing some passive benefits and replacing the necromancer’s normal weapon skills with a fixed set of Death Shroud skills. It is fueled by life force and can be entered even while under control effects.

Death Shroud has a base 10-second recharge upon activation. Death Shroud ends either when the life force pool is completely depleted, or when manually deactivated. Leaving Death Shroud manually or due to life force depletion will trigger another 10-second cooldown before Death Shroud can be used again.
A minimum of 10% life force is required to enter Death Shroud.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer’s health is temporarily replaced by their life force pool, and all damage dealt will be inflicted to the life force pool instead of the necromancer’s normal health pool.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer naturally loses 4% of its total life force pool every second.
Necromancers cannot be healed while in Death Shroud (except for Unholy Sanctuary and Vampiric Presence). Effects that normally restore health will have no effect on either the life force pool or the necromancer’s regular health pool.
Skills and traits that refill life force will continue to function while in Death Shroud. However, the necromancer will not get life force from nearby deaths.
While in Death Shroud, upgrades, such as sigils, on the necromancer’s currently equipped weapon continue to function (with the exception of sigils that trigger on weapon swap). The weapon damage of the equipped weapon is applied to the Death Shroud skills, including any traits that affect the equipped weapon, such as Axe Training.
Traits and rune bonuses that trigger at health thresholds (such as Superior Rune of the Scholar) rely on the necromancer’s regular health pool, rather than their life force pool.
you dont get any damage reduction try it for yourself let a thief bs you in ds and not in ds and come back

You dont have to explain me what DS does… i play necro since release. And DS does indeed have a 50% damage reduction but it isnt showen in the combat log. Meaning you, lets say, see 5000 damage in the log but only 2500 LF is removed.
Test it on svanir or any enemy i dont care…

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

chibbi.3706:

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

Yes, why do you think it takes double the time to burst a necro in DS?

But honestly currently we need that 50% damage reduction due the lack of any defense other then DS.

Death Shroud is the necromancer’s unique mechanic providing some passive benefits and replacing the necromancer’s normal weapon skills with a fixed set of Death Shroud skills. It is fueled by life force and can be entered even while under control effects.

Death Shroud has a base 10-second recharge upon activation. Death Shroud ends either when the life force pool is completely depleted, or when manually deactivated. Leaving Death Shroud manually or due to life force depletion will trigger another 10-second cooldown before Death Shroud can be used again.
A minimum of 10% life force is required to enter Death Shroud.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer’s health is temporarily replaced by their life force pool, and all damage dealt will be inflicted to the life force pool instead of the necromancer’s normal health pool.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer naturally loses 4% of its total life force pool every second.
Necromancers cannot be healed while in Death Shroud (except for Unholy Sanctuary and Vampiric Presence). Effects that normally restore health will have no effect on either the life force pool or the necromancer’s regular health pool.
Skills and traits that refill life force will continue to function while in Death Shroud. However, the necromancer will not get life force from nearby deaths.
While in Death Shroud, upgrades, such as sigils, on the necromancer’s currently equipped weapon continue to function (with the exception of sigils that trigger on weapon swap). The weapon damage of the equipped weapon is applied to the Death Shroud skills, including any traits that affect the equipped weapon, such as Axe Training.
Traits and rune bonuses that trigger at health thresholds (such as Superior Rune of the Scholar) rely on the necromancer’s regular health pool, rather than their life force pool.
you dont get any damage reduction try it for yourself let a thief bs you in ds and not in ds and come back

You dont have to explain me what DS does… i play necro since release. And DS does indeed have a 50% damage reduction but it isnt showen in the combat log. Meaning you, lets say, see 5000 damage in the log but only 2500 LF is removed.
Test it on svanir or any enemy i dont care…

here is the test check no damage reduction first 1 is using ds second 1 is no ds

It should be 20% min out of combat. Not sure if need a maximum value.

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

chibbi.3706:

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

Yes, why do you think it takes double the time to burst a necro in DS?

But honestly currently we need that 50% damage reduction due the lack of any defense other then DS.

Death Shroud is the necromancer’s unique mechanic providing some passive benefits and replacing the necromancer’s normal weapon skills with a fixed set of Death Shroud skills. It is fueled by life force and can be entered even while under control effects.

Death Shroud has a base 10-second recharge upon activation. Death Shroud ends either when the life force pool is completely depleted, or when manually deactivated. Leaving Death Shroud manually or due to life force depletion will trigger another 10-second cooldown before Death Shroud can be used again.
A minimum of 10% life force is required to enter Death Shroud.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer’s health is temporarily replaced by their life force pool, and all damage dealt will be inflicted to the life force pool instead of the necromancer’s normal health pool.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer naturally loses 4% of its total life force pool every second.
Necromancers cannot be healed while in Death Shroud (except for Unholy Sanctuary and Vampiric Presence). Effects that normally restore health will have no effect on either the life force pool or the necromancer’s regular health pool.
Skills and traits that refill life force will continue to function while in Death Shroud. However, the necromancer will not get life force from nearby deaths.
While in Death Shroud, upgrades, such as sigils, on the necromancer’s currently equipped weapon continue to function (with the exception of sigils that trigger on weapon swap). The weapon damage of the equipped weapon is applied to the Death Shroud skills, including any traits that affect the equipped weapon, such as Axe Training.
Traits and rune bonuses that trigger at health thresholds (such as Superior Rune of the Scholar) rely on the necromancer’s regular health pool, rather than their life force pool.
you dont get any damage reduction try it for yourself let a thief bs you in ds and not in ds and come back

You dont have to explain me what DS does… i play necro since release. And DS does indeed have a 50% damage reduction but it isnt showen in the combat log. Meaning you, lets say, see 5000 damage in the log but only 2500 LF is removed.
Test it on svanir or any enemy i dont care…

here is the test check no damage reduction first 1 is using ds second 1 is no ds

What the hell do you not understand in the damage reduction isnt shown in the combat log… Look at you LF bar…

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

chibbi.3706:

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

Yes, why do you think it takes double the time to burst a necro in DS?

But honestly currently we need that 50% damage reduction due the lack of any defense other then DS.

Death Shroud is the necromancer’s unique mechanic providing some passive benefits and replacing the necromancer’s normal weapon skills with a fixed set of Death Shroud skills. It is fueled by life force and can be entered even while under control effects.

Death Shroud has a base 10-second recharge upon activation. Death Shroud ends either when the life force pool is completely depleted, or when manually deactivated. Leaving Death Shroud manually or due to life force depletion will trigger another 10-second cooldown before Death Shroud can be used again.
A minimum of 10% life force is required to enter Death Shroud.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer’s health is temporarily replaced by their life force pool, and all damage dealt will be inflicted to the life force pool instead of the necromancer’s normal health pool.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer naturally loses 4% of its total life force pool every second.
Necromancers cannot be healed while in Death Shroud (except for Unholy Sanctuary and Vampiric Presence). Effects that normally restore health will have no effect on either the life force pool or the necromancer’s regular health pool.
Skills and traits that refill life force will continue to function while in Death Shroud. However, the necromancer will not get life force from nearby deaths.
While in Death Shroud, upgrades, such as sigils, on the necromancer’s currently equipped weapon continue to function (with the exception of sigils that trigger on weapon swap). The weapon damage of the equipped weapon is applied to the Death Shroud skills, including any traits that affect the equipped weapon, such as Axe Training.
Traits and rune bonuses that trigger at health thresholds (such as Superior Rune of the Scholar) rely on the necromancer’s regular health pool, rather than their life force pool.
you dont get any damage reduction try it for yourself let a thief bs you in ds and not in ds and come back

You dont have to explain me what DS does… i play necro since release. And DS does indeed have a 50% damage reduction but it isnt showen in the combat log. Meaning you, lets say, see 5000 damage in the log but only 2500 LF is removed.
Test it on svanir or any enemy i dont care…

here is the test check no damage reduction first 1 is using ds second 1 is no ds

What the hell do you not understand in the damage reduction isnt shown in the combat log… Look at you LF bar…

triple check my lf bar and found not a 50% damage reduction but took little less damage from hits hit for 3k were 2.5k hits on lf apply on that the 4% lf lose per second

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

chibbi.3706:

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

Yes, why do you think it takes double the time to burst a necro in DS?

But honestly currently we need that 50% damage reduction due the lack of any defense other then DS.

Death Shroud is the necromancer’s unique mechanic providing some passive benefits and replacing the necromancer’s normal weapon skills with a fixed set of Death Shroud skills. It is fueled by life force and can be entered even while under control effects.

Death Shroud has a base 10-second recharge upon activation. Death Shroud ends either when the life force pool is completely depleted, or when manually deactivated. Leaving Death Shroud manually or due to life force depletion will trigger another 10-second cooldown before Death Shroud can be used again.
A minimum of 10% life force is required to enter Death Shroud.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer’s health is temporarily replaced by their life force pool, and all damage dealt will be inflicted to the life force pool instead of the necromancer’s normal health pool.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer naturally loses 4% of its total life force pool every second.
Necromancers cannot be healed while in Death Shroud (except for Unholy Sanctuary and Vampiric Presence). Effects that normally restore health will have no effect on either the life force pool or the necromancer’s regular health pool.
Skills and traits that refill life force will continue to function while in Death Shroud. However, the necromancer will not get life force from nearby deaths.
While in Death Shroud, upgrades, such as sigils, on the necromancer’s currently equipped weapon continue to function (with the exception of sigils that trigger on weapon swap). The weapon damage of the equipped weapon is applied to the Death Shroud skills, including any traits that affect the equipped weapon, such as Axe Training.
Traits and rune bonuses that trigger at health thresholds (such as Superior Rune of the Scholar) rely on the necromancer’s regular health pool, rather than their life force pool.
you dont get any damage reduction try it for yourself let a thief bs you in ds and not in ds and come back

You dont have to explain me what DS does… i play necro since release. And DS does indeed have a 50% damage reduction but it isnt showen in the combat log. Meaning you, lets say, see 5000 damage in the log but only 2500 LF is removed.
Test it on svanir or any enemy i dont care…

here is the test check no damage reduction first 1 is using ds second 1 is no ds

What the hell do you not understand in the damage reduction isnt shown in the combat log… Look at you LF bar…

triple check my lf bar and found not a 50% damage reduction but took little less damage from hits hit for 3k were 2.5k hits on lf

I also just checked it because you made me unsure but when svanir hit me for 2k (i was wearing soldiers and no dm traits) i only lost 1k LF. So i am sure that the 50% reduction still is there.

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

chibbi.3706:

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

Yes, why do you think it takes double the time to burst a necro in DS?

But honestly currently we need that 50% damage reduction due the lack of any defense other then DS.

Death Shroud is the necromancer’s unique mechanic providing some passive benefits and replacing the necromancer’s normal weapon skills with a fixed set of Death Shroud skills. It is fueled by life force and can be entered even while under control effects.

Death Shroud has a base 10-second recharge upon activation. Death Shroud ends either when the life force pool is completely depleted, or when manually deactivated. Leaving Death Shroud manually or due to life force depletion will trigger another 10-second cooldown before Death Shroud can be used again.
A minimum of 10% life force is required to enter Death Shroud.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer’s health is temporarily replaced by their life force pool, and all damage dealt will be inflicted to the life force pool instead of the necromancer’s normal health pool.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer naturally loses 4% of its total life force pool every second.
Necromancers cannot be healed while in Death Shroud (except for Unholy Sanctuary and Vampiric Presence). Effects that normally restore health will have no effect on either the life force pool or the necromancer’s regular health pool.
Skills and traits that refill life force will continue to function while in Death Shroud. However, the necromancer will not get life force from nearby deaths.
While in Death Shroud, upgrades, such as sigils, on the necromancer’s currently equipped weapon continue to function (with the exception of sigils that trigger on weapon swap). The weapon damage of the equipped weapon is applied to the Death Shroud skills, including any traits that affect the equipped weapon, such as Axe Training.
Traits and rune bonuses that trigger at health thresholds (such as Superior Rune of the Scholar) rely on the necromancer’s regular health pool, rather than their life force pool.
you dont get any damage reduction try it for yourself let a thief bs you in ds and not in ds and come back

You dont have to explain me what DS does… i play necro since release. And DS does indeed have a 50% damage reduction but it isnt showen in the combat log. Meaning you, lets say, see 5000 damage in the log but only 2500 LF is removed.
Test it on svanir or any enemy i dont care…

here is the test check no damage reduction first 1 is using ds second 1 is no ds

What the hell do you not understand in the damage reduction isnt shown in the combat log… Look at you LF bar…

triple check my lf bar and found not a 50% damage reduction but took little less damage from hits hit for 3k were 2.5k hits on lf

I also just checked it because you made me unsure but when svanir hit me for 2k (i was wearing soldiers and no dm traits) i only lost 1k LF. So i am sure that the 50% reduction still is there.

I did the test using zerker’s and he hits me for 3k and on bar damage is 2k did it again to make sure.

Honestly, this is thread is purely a PvPer rant start by a thief that couldn’t almost instagib a necromancer because the necromancer had life force. This is sad.
There is no sense of equity or whatever, it’s just that the specific mechanism of the necromancer was up like maybe steal was up for the thief or attunement were up for the elementalist or whatever.

In a fight, nobody should assume that the enemy is an easy win, especialy in PvP. You have to accept that things can’t always be in your favor. Asking the necromancer to start a fight without LF always looked like asking other profession to start with 0 endurance. Nobody would accept it, but for proper duels, necromancer’s usually accept this handicap.

The Shroud in it’s state is supposedly the corner stone of the Anet’s design in which the necromancer “want to get hit”. Except that nobody want to get hit in this game because there are to many ability/mobs that hit way to hard to let you want to be hit. At the same time, what do the necromancer gain to be hit?

- Life force if he/she use actively some spectral skill
- low access to the Nerfed-to-the ground retaliation.

And that’s all… I think it’s important to understand that it’s part to the never-ending necromancer’s issue with it’s design philosophy. The “shroud” have to many roles and he can’t assume all of them. At the same time, the necromancer design philosophy also enter in conflict with itself in a lot of way. This is a never-ending knot with no solution because Anet is adamant on 2 things : the necromancer design philosophy and the shroud (2 things that ultimately don’t work fine together).

Although, the fact that the Shroud have an inerant 50% damage reduction is just another band aid that hid the fact that the necromancer can’t live IG to it’s own philosophy. Being able to gather more LF and faster at the cost of the damage reduction is something that seem interesting at first glance but would only generate more issues on some other sides.

We could ask them to remove the 2nd life bar just transfering damage to LF when using spectral armor/spectral walk, spending life force to use a our “Shroud kit of skill”. In a way, nobody could complain about that. Necromancer’s would have access to longer pseudo damage mitigation skills but at the same time they would be forced to take them to manage the bare minimum survivability that other classes achieve. In all honesty, with a few change on shroud skills and maybe traits, something viable could be done… But these necessary change would go against the necromancer’s design philosophy.

Necromancer’s design philosophy, I hate you!

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

Brokensunday.4098:

Muchacho.2390:

chibbi.3706:

Bhawb.7408:

I think they need to remove DS’s “hidden” power with 50% direct damage reduction, maybe even lower it to 50% of our HP, but then give us better life force generation options, maybe some extra ways to spend it, and some good generic defenses like invuln.

Wait, you take 50% less damage while in death shroud ?

Yes, why do you think it takes double the time to burst a necro in DS?

But honestly currently we need that 50% damage reduction due the lack of any defense other then DS.

Death Shroud is the necromancer’s unique mechanic providing some passive benefits and replacing the necromancer’s normal weapon skills with a fixed set of Death Shroud skills. It is fueled by life force and can be entered even while under control effects.

Death Shroud has a base 10-second recharge upon activation. Death Shroud ends either when the life force pool is completely depleted, or when manually deactivated. Leaving Death Shroud manually or due to life force depletion will trigger another 10-second cooldown before Death Shroud can be used again.
A minimum of 10% life force is required to enter Death Shroud.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer’s health is temporarily replaced by their life force pool, and all damage dealt will be inflicted to the life force pool instead of the necromancer’s normal health pool.
While in Death Shroud, the necromancer naturally loses 4% of its total life force pool every second.
Necromancers cannot be healed while in Death Shroud (except for Unholy Sanctuary and Vampiric Presence). Effects that normally restore health will have no effect on either the life force pool or the necromancer’s regular health pool.
Skills and traits that refill life force will continue to function while in Death Shroud. However, the necromancer will not get life force from nearby deaths.
While in Death Shroud, upgrades, such as sigils, on the necromancer’s currently equipped weapon continue to function (with the exception of sigils that trigger on weapon swap). The weapon damage of the equipped weapon is applied to the Death Shroud skills, including any traits that affect the equipped weapon, such as Axe Training.
Traits and rune bonuses that trigger at health thresholds (such as Superior Rune of the Scholar) rely on the necromancer’s regular health pool, rather than their life force pool.
you dont get any damage reduction try it for yourself let a thief bs you in ds and not in ds and come back

You dont have to explain me what DS does… i play necro since release. And DS does indeed have a 50% damage reduction but it isnt showen in the combat log. Meaning you, lets say, see 5000 damage in the log but only 2500 LF is removed.
Test it on svanir or any enemy i dont care…

here is the test check no damage reduction first 1 is using ds second 1 is no ds

What the hell do you not understand in the damage reduction isnt shown in the combat log… Look at you LF bar…

triple check my lf bar and found not a 50% damage reduction but took little less damage from hits hit for 3k were 2.5k hits on lf

I also just checked it because you made me unsure but when svanir hit me for 2k (i was wearing soldiers and no dm traits) i only lost 1k LF. So i am sure that the 50% reduction still is there.

I did the test using zerker’s and he hits me for 3k and on bar damage is 2k did it again to make sure.

Ahh isnt that exactly what i was saying? 4% of a zerker necro LF bar is roughly 400-500 that added to 1,5k (also the half of 3k of the damage) would be roughly 2k. So the numbers you give me roughly translate to the 50% damage reduction…