Guild Wars 2

Yeah I didn’t list minor traits cause I was a bit lazy. Some are terrible, some are okay, and some are great.

Might would proc more often if the threshold was higher. That would be a good boost for a minor.

Still, it would be better if it was vigor.

djooce, how can u say such a mistake? the trait is rubish by stats and design, with being a global worst GM minor candidate

NeXeD.3042:

reapers might, signet mastery, and spiteful spirit. all better.

Reapers might: Damage reduces to get a significant boost while using a condition build, ends up both wasting time and lowers the damage.

Signet Master: I use 0 signets on my build. Useless to my build as I will not replace any of my skills for a signet considering none of them are particularly useful. for my build. Maybe Plague signet and I could see an argument for that but still would much rather take well of power. I’ve used both interchangeably and WoP proved to be the better option time and time again.

Spiteful Spirit: An extra 100 damage here or there, or 0 damage depending on the situation. Having extremely low power, a condi set can’t take much advantage from it.

Considering that I use corruptions and sometimes can’t afford to remove them using skills, spiteful removal is still the best choice for a condition set.

On Spiteful Marks, perhaps a suitable change would be to have Marks apply 2 seconds of retaliation to allies in the blast area? I chose 2 so that the uptime isn’t nigh permenant with just Mark of Blood and Staff mastery.

But, given Retaliation is a common theme among “spiteful” traits (minus spiteful removal), could it work? At least it would be unique and also work as some group support in a necro method.

Well if your trying to be so efficient then get off your kitten condi build in pve =)

But I guess you are right about trash mobs having extremely dangerous conditions, and are also right that wvw zerging is just so faceroll. It’s nothing compared to standing in a corner and dpsing. I mean it’s not like you need to watch out for the hammer train and the peripheral gank squad all while attacking targets and staying with your driver or blasting waters or any of those other extremely easy wvw zerg things.

Pve = pro.

To Drarnor’s suggestion, I would like retaliation, too, or add one different boon to each mark instead of 10% mark damage increase.

I would also like the trait to boost Grasping Claws damage to help in ranged PvE combat but that is probably a tall order.

NeXeD.3042:

Well if your trying to be so efficient then get off your kitten condi build in pve =)

But I guess you are right about trash mobs having extremely dangerous conditions, and are also right that wvw zerging is just so faceroll. It’s nothing compared to standing in a corner and dpsing. I mean it’s not like you need to watch out for the hammer train and the peripheral gank squad all while attacking targets and staying with your driver or blasting waters or any of those other extremely easy wvw zerg things.

Pve = pro.

You do realize we where strictly talking PvE right? I mean, I see how you can get easily confused and all. But I mentioned it a half a dozen times.

Also, I do player power as well in PvE. I don’t prefer it because it doesn’t scale as well as conditions and you are much more frail, but its still useful in a lot of situations.

You might be talking a out pve when you talk. This thread is not in the necromancer pve discussion it’s just in the necromancer discussion and there are other game modes. I know since anet doesn’t force you to play those game modes you can easily forget that plenty of people play them. So when the vast majority of necromancers look at traits we look at them from multiple perspectives. The problem we are facing here is Your defending a trait because it fits in to a tiny niche in a build that you admit isn’t as effective as others because it’s fun. I’m glad you like to have fun with your build. I like to do dungeons without traits and in green armor because that’s fun.

Well he said that just as a condi necro in pve (open world) he finds it more useful than the rest..it’s also not a minor so you dont have to pick this trait anyway, unlike spite 25^^

Might have been true until the “we” was used.

NeXeD.3042:

Might have been true until the “we” was used.

Except this part of the conversation was started on PvE. Not the whole thread mind you, but this back and forth most defiantly was.

You are the only one who has been saying pve most of us were talking about traits as a whole. But I’m glad you like the trait that fits into your niche build that is suboptimal for pve rock on.

NeXeD.3042:

You are the only one who has been saying pve most of us were talking about traits as a whole. But I’m glad you like the trait that fits into your niche build that is suboptimal for pve rock on.

At least I actually experiment with builds and traits… Unlike you who follows the crowed. Besides, I wasn’t defending this trait for PvP or WvW. Just said it wasn’t as bad you you fools think.

Lily.1935:

NeXeD.3042:

You are the only one who has been saying pve most of us were talking about traits as a whole. But I’m glad you like the trait that fits into your niche build that is suboptimal for pve rock on.

At least I actually experiment with builds and traits… Unlike you who follows the crowed. Besides, I wasn’t defending this trait for PvP or WvW. Just said it wasn’t as bad you you fools think.

It’s been a long time since the last balance patch actually affected Necros meaningfully, the time to experiment is long past.
Your build IS suboptimal, just accept it and stop thinking that just because you are playing something different you are better, the opposite is more likely.

Be kind, folks. Experimenting with sub-optimal builds and skills to both find niche situations where they might be useful and describing why the trait or build is deficient in other situations is important feedback to the dev’s and the community. Be specific.

I don’t just follow the crowd, I have posted a few builds that I use that are not just the standard. I really haven’t found one as far as condi goes though. Power has more options condi really only has 2 or 3.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Lily.1935:

NeXeD.3042:

You are the only one who has been saying pve most of us were talking about traits as a whole. But I’m glad you like the trait that fits into your niche build that is suboptimal for pve rock on.

At least I actually experiment with builds and traits… Unlike you who follows the crowed. Besides, I wasn’t defending this trait for PvP or WvW. Just said it wasn’t as bad you you fools think.

It’s been a long time since the last balance patch actually affected Necros meaningfully, the time to experiment is long past.
Your build IS suboptimal, just accept it and stop thinking that just because you are playing something different you are better, the opposite is more likely.

Stop projecting.

Ive used Vampiric Wells since launch and i love it. In pve, your Wail of Doom is an aoe stun (daze, but in pve daze = stun) to keep enemies in it. Its not the most damage, but i like the sustain from it in extended fights in PvE. Its a good substitute for lack of Vigor.

Warcry.1596:

Ive used Vampiric Wells since launch and i love it. In pve, your Wail of Doom is an aoe stun (daze, but in pve daze = stun) to keep enemies in it. Its not the most damage, but i like the sustain from it in extended fights in PvE. Its a good substitute for lack of Vigor.

You ever try using Sigil of energy? I tend to use that allot.

The question isn’t if a trait can be used in a build and find some use. The question is if a trait is strong when compared to other traits at that level. 3 conditions removed on an enemy death is just really really bad compared to other adept traits. Vampiric rituals is the same way. It might be kind of useful sometimes, but compared to traits from other classes in the same spot it is just not up to par. Stop trying to say, I find this trait useful sometimes so it isn’t bad. Just because it is useful to you sometimes doesn’t mean it is good.

trololololololol, sigil of energy in pve is suboptimal.

i use em for tpvp and wvw though.

If you want vigor we can actually get a ton with WoP on bleeds.

I think WoP + bleeds is a bit more suboptimal than sacrificing 1 sigil.

I can think of one situation where a sub-optimal build and goofy, otherwise lame traits are not so horrible: solo farming trash mobs. I gather a group of mobs and wipe them all together. It is because we have no cleave and conditions take a bit to kick in. Power/critical is still where I want to be but some skills that are usually less attractive help with sustain and the trait skills become important in speed farming.

Ps: I just burned a bunch of mats crafting again so I need to farm and I kind of like the mindless toil. Too bad the bag rate seems lower than it was.

zapv.8051:

The question isn’t if a trait can be used in a build and find some use. The question is if a trait is strong when compared to other traits at that level. 3 conditions removed on an enemy death is just really really bad compared to other adept traits. Vampiric rituals is the same way. It might be kind of useful sometimes, but compared to traits from other classes in the same spot it is just not up to par. Stop trying to say, I find this trait useful sometimes so it isn’t bad. Just because it is useful to you sometimes doesn’t mean it is good.

Considering the necromancer is poor at escaping and avoiding combat, allowing yourself to drop combat quicker by having this automatic condition removal is useful for roaming and mapping. Not to mention some fractals. And before anyone complains about me using a condi build in fractals, I’m not the only one on this forum who does. This trait becomes especially effective against the Grawl Shaman during the second part when the lava elemental start to immobilize you and your party in mass. Far more then a few times it allowed me to re-position myself and get the upper hand.

I Never said the trait was great. Just not that bad. The thread is called “List of Useless traits” And I have clearly made a case for the trait not being useless. You can disagree if you’re so inclined, however Not a single one of you have presented a relevant argument to suggest it is actually useless, or even bad.

I really only use that trait if running un-optimized or over optimized MM but it can be useful, except now we can retrait for free out of combat

Anchoku.8142:

I really only use that trait if running un-optimized or over optimized MM but it can be useful, except now we can retrait for free out of combat

oh, Grenth yes! It was about time they let us do that. Now all they need to do is add build saving because I switch build frequently.

The trait isn’t really helpful with escaping….. It helps after you’ve won.

WoP is a fantastic skill. It is suboptimal in the pve zerker let’s all stack in a corner nonsense. It is very useful in pvp though.

Using your argument none of the traits are in fact useless since they all do “something” I really don’t understand why you seem to be hell bent on defending a trait that is seriously just kittening bad, other than just to argue for the sake of arguing.

NeXeD.3042:

The trait isn’t really helpful with escaping….. It helps after you’ve won.

WoP is a fantastic skill. It is suboptimal in the pve zerker let’s all stack in a corner nonsense. It is very useful in pvp though.

Using your argument none of the traits are in fact useless since they all do “something” I really don’t understand why you seem to be hell bent on defending a trait that is seriously just kittening bad, other than just to argue for the sake of arguing.

Because I don’t think its bad. on a rating of 1-5 I’d give it a 3.

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NeXeD.3042:

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See the difference between us is I don’t expect a Grandmaster trait in an Adept slot.

You exaggerate.

NeXeD.3042:

You exaggerate.

Okay, master trait but still, you’re expecting too much from an adept trait.

The issue with the trait isn’t so much what it does but how often it does it and when it does it. Cleansing conditions after killing something might have some extremely niche use, but when it doesn’t proc in most difficult combat situations (when you need it), its not an issue of expecting the trait to be more powerful, its just expecting the trait to function.

Bhawb’s point, exactly.

The trait is useful in milti-target speed farming on a partial MM or a wells build w/ WoB. Blood fiend w/o minion condi draws or wells with WoP for NPC support but too many mobs. Basically, situations where you kill lots of things at the same time, continuously. Still, it is not that compelling but not useless.

Bhawb.7408:

The issue with the trait isn’t so much what it does but how often it does it and when it does it. Cleansing conditions after killing something might have some extremely niche use, but when it doesn’t proc in most difficult combat situations (when you need it), its not an issue of expecting the trait to be more powerful, its just expecting the trait to function.

After using the trait for over a year, I can say with confidence that It does proc when I need it most.

Yeah the more I think about it the more I think it’s op. They should swap it with dhuumfire.

NeXeD.3042:

Yeah the more I think about it the more I think it’s op. They should swap it with dhuumfire.

You’re sarcasm isn’t welcome.

And the more I think about it. Changing it slightly would lend itself better to the builds that want it. Say rather then 3 conditions on deaths, 2 conditions are converted into boons on deaths. Same cool down. But now you have a mini well of power effect. I’d actually really like that.

Your proposed changed would increase the significance of this trait greatly.

NeXeD.3042:

Your proposed changed would increase the significance of this trait greatly.

finally, we agree on something.

Yes, finally! Let us all agree on making a minor adept awesome.

I’m fairly certain that was sarcasm, if not I’ll go ahead and say it’d still be awful.

On-death traits are just bad. I put up with Death Nova because it was amazing before they added Reanimator into it, and so its just a little w/e addition sometimes. But purely on-death traits are not a good mechanic for this game. Notice how the few on-death sigils are literally never used. If the thing is procing often enough to matter you’ll win anyway without it, and if they don’t proc… well yeah. Its the same reason people don’t take stacking sigils in PvP, or why people don’t buy Mejai’s or Sword of the Occult in League, its too high risk if it doesn’t work (wasted slot) and the reward is a slightly faster win.

On death either needs to greatly increase what it can proc on, or simply be reworked.

Bhawb.7408:

I’m fairly certain that was sarcasm, if not I’ll go ahead and say it’d still be awful.

On-death traits are just bad. I put up with Death Nova because it was amazing before they added Reanimator into it, and so its just a little w/e addition sometimes. But purely on-death traits are not a good mechanic for this game. Notice how the few on-death sigils are literally never used. If the thing is procing often enough to matter you’ll win anyway without it, and if they don’t proc… well yeah. Its the same reason people don’t take stacking sigils in PvP, or why people don’t buy Mejai’s or Sword of the Occult in League, its too high risk if it doesn’t work (wasted slot) and the reward is a slightly faster win.

On death either needs to greatly increase what it can proc on, or simply be reworked.

Or you need to play with it instead of speculate about it. Because what works on paper doesn’t always work in practice, and what doesn’t look like it will be good on paper is actually better in practice.

I’ve tried on death because you are forced to by certain trait trees. I’m forced to play with Parasitic Bond in most builds I play, I used to be forced to use Reanimator. It hasn’t changed my opinion.

The Siphon traits are just so… pointless.

It’s just weird to have so many traits devoted to healing, which is nice, but then have a class mechanic where these things don’t work anyways.

Login.5102:

Some traits that need to be looked at.

Spite

(III) Spiteful Removal
(VII)Spiteful Marks
(XIII)Parasitic Contagion

Curses

(V)Reapers Precision
(XII)Withering Precision

Death Magic

(XII) Necrotic Corruption
(XIII)Unholy Sanctuary

Blood Magic

(II)Bloodthirst
(V)Vampiric precision
(IX)Deathly Invigoration
(XII)Vampiric Rituals
(XIII)Unholy Martyr

Soul Reaping

(V)Speed of shadows
(XIII)Renewing Blast

Mostly PvE based opinions of mine.

• Spiteful Removal, usable in PvE, kill mobs to remove conditions, also good for condition manipulation, if the mobs inflict heavy conditions, some extra breathing room is nice.
• Spiteful Marks, quite weak as it appears, never used it on PvE
• Parasitic Contagion, excellent with Epidemic, more mobs suffer from DoT conditions, more healing ticks, even if small.

• Reaper’s Precision, yea, only using it with power/precision builds, which involves DS.
• Withering Precision, unfortunately weakness is only good for reducing damage in PvE, and can inflict AoE weakness with Enfeebling Blood already.

• Necrotic Corruption, useless trait, as minions are not the most responsive additions, including the 10% is very unreliable for removing boons. I read one topic suggesting turning Minion master traits into active traits, there it was suggested that the Subsequent-minion skill is instead modified by this trait.
• Unholy Sanctuary, haven’t used this one either, mainly because majority of PvE content being too simple to find use for this trait. Perhaps for CQC Corrupter builds, if there were more boons used in most PvE content.

• Bloodthirst, while there isn’t any other good trait for increasing dmg dealt, this one is then used, to boost minion dps or make life-siphoning melee-necromancer.
• Vampiric Precision, well, since my life-siphoning melee-necromancer uses berserker gear anyway.
• Deathly Invigoration, used it on my healer necromancer, it has quite little use tho, due to simplicity of PvE content.
• Vampiric Rituals, combine with every possible lifestealing skills, traits and foods, then there’s monstrous lifesteal from on hit, on crit and per pulse…
• Unholy Martyr, well, according to description, 1 condition from 1 ally on each 3 seconds, not like Plague signet, that draws 1 condition from 5 allies in range on each 3 seconds. (Perhaps more useful if it drew from 2-3 nearby allies on each 3 seconds?)

• Speed of Shadows, well, if I don’t have space for Signet of the Locust on utility and I have DS build, then I might, but mostly favoring Vital Persistence over this.
• Renewing Blast, unusable, hopefully it’s updated to create healing blast on hit, instead of healing only when hitting allies…

ArchonWing.9480:

The Siphon traits are just so… pointless.

It’s just weird to have so many traits devoted to healing, which is nice, but then have a class mechanic where these things don’t work anyways.

Vampiric Master trait is a must have for Minion Masters. I use it. It adds 80 damage to each minion attack, the actual siphon healing is just incidental.

Bhawb.7408:

I’ve tried on death because you are forced to by certain trait trees. I’m forced to play with Parasitic Bond in most builds I play, I used to be forced to use Reanimator. It hasn’t changed my opinion.

You don’t even like condition builds. What would you know about what is useful to us? You favor minions, which I would say are very niche in PvE, far far more so then my own condi build.

I am known for playing and liking minions, it doesn’t mean I only play minion builds or only like them. I don’t like condi builds for group PvE because its awful, it doesn’t mean I never play condi.

I think the best why to buff the lifesiphon traits (including parasitic contagion) would be to allow them to work while in DS. Then ajusting numbers will probably not be nesseccery.