MM vs stealthy thief

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: The Demonic Spirit.3157

The Demonic Spirit.3157

Today I challenged a thief into a duel. My build > http://tinyurl.com/opjsdrw
I won in the first round , he won in the second and third.
I lost because most of my minions active skills missed because of his stealth ( every 2 sec ).
My marks are useless to him as he got healed whenever he cloaked himself.
What is the best strategy against him ?
Don’t say minions are weak , bla bla bla …… as I win most 1v1 duels except stealthy thief because of my minions Al.

All 80es > MM necro is my best ,cleric
guard ,nades eng ,Trap thief \ranger ,signet\shout warrior, zerk mes\ele & shiro rev.

(edited by The Demonic Spirit.3157)

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: WhiteRose.6934

WhiteRose.6934

Thieves can’t stealth every 2 seconds (if he attacked you/a minion, reveal is 3 seconds) just gonna correct you on that.
For arguments sake, maybe the thiefs stealth is just a good counter against your set up. Considering you’re depending on your minions for damage, and he’s using his defense (stealth) to avoid them, then he’s playing smart.
The best thing you can try and do is wait until he’s out of stealth and if you’re quick enough get your golem & fiend to knockdown + Immobolize him, then just spam marks and let your minions go to town.
Just keep in mind that your minions are literally a big ‘ol sign post that says "Hey, I don’t move, come stealth off of me", and it makes it relatively easy for thieves to avoid your minions attacks.

Genesis Theory [GT] – Henge of Denravi

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

What build did he use exactly? Was it D/P, or a pistol MH condition build?

I haven’t lost a 1v1 to a thief in a long time.

Few notes:
Blood Fiend is going to put you at a severe disadvantage. He isn’t going to be hitting often, so his overall effective healing will go way down. I don’t usually bring him along.

Shadow Fiend is simply subpar atm in general situations. Flesh Wurm hits just about as hard, but is ranged (can’t be kited), and he will save you from a big burst at least once per 1v1, by stun-breaking the basilisk venom, or by getting you out of the way when he hits you with the immobilize. Plus, unless they fixed it, he ignores stealth.

You don’t have Fetid Consumption or Death Nova. If you’re going 30 into either DM or BM you just… need them. They are far too good to pass up. Drop BT, slot transfusion there, and either grab Death Nova or Fetid Consumption.

As for the rest, I’ll check in a second, since the website went down and I can’t see your build.

Generally speaking though, every time he comes out of stealth he should be fearing for his life. Dark Pact, Rigor Mortis, Charge, Reaper’s Mark, all should give him a lot of pain, and be combo’d together so that he’s forced to blow major CD’s. Thieves are majorly squishy, landing one decent combo will take him down half his HP.

Save Doom for when you get surprised by something, pop DS and fear him away. And use Dagger 2, DS 4/5 when he goes into stealth to keep up the pressure, along with dropping marks all over him.

Also, I’d suggest a new rune set (how you manage to live with one active condi removal is beyond me), and new sigils.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: The Demonic Spirit.3157

The Demonic Spirit.3157

Bhawb , what runes and sigils should I use to counter him ?

Even when he is not stealthed , most of my skills ( along with minions active attacks ) got missed , I won by luck as my golem knocked him down.

He did not kill any of my minions so Death Nova will be useless unless it works with putrid explosion ( is it fixed ? ).

About Blood fiend , should I replace it with well of blood ?

I don’t think that Fetid Consumption will be usefull too as he is a zerker ( he didn’t use conditions at all , just melee > shadow step at my feet then unleashing devasting attacks )
I heard that wurm ignores stealth , I shall give it a try.

Bhawb , can you record a video that shows MM vs stealthy thief ?

All 80es > MM necro is my best ,cleric
guard ,nades eng ,Trap thief \ranger ,signet\shout warrior, zerk mes\ele & shiro rev.

(edited by The Demonic Spirit.3157)

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: tattoohead.3217

tattoohead.3217

For your heal I recommend CC I almost never take BF (really want too though) also I totally agree with bhawb use wurm it’s just a superior pet in most situations when 1v1/1vx

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Bhawb , what runes and sigils should I use to counter him ?

Even when he is not stealthed , most of my skills ( along with minions active attacks ) got missed , I won by luck as my golem knocked him down.

He did not kill any of my minions so Death Nova will be useless unless it works with putrid explosion ( is it fixed ? ).

About Blood fiend , should I replace it with well of blood ?

I don’t think that Fetid Consumption will be usefull too as he is a zerker ( he didn’t use conditions at all , just melee > shadow step at my feet then unleashing devasting attacks )
I heard that wurm ignores stealth , I shall give it a try.

Bhawb , can you record a video that shows MM vs stealthy thief ?

Death Nova has worked with Putrid Explosion for a long time. It does not proc the extra direct damage, but blowing up both Bone Minions will apply a massive amount of poison (100% uptime if he stands in the poison field) and good weakness. And while the thief probably wouldn’t have activated Death Nova or Fetid Consumption often, that was just general advice, not necessarily against the thief.

The Runes/Sigils I use are 2x Leeching sigil one on each weapon set, then depending on what else I have: dagger MH gets bloodlust, axe MH gets hobbling. 4x Vamp Runes, 2x Melandru. Every time you swap weapons and attack, 975 healed, 975 damage dealt (which is a lot when most thieves are very low HP), every time you heal, that’s an extra 975 healed, and again deals 975 damage. And then randomly during the fight you’ll get the 2 proc for another 975/975. It adds a deceptive but very strong amount of sustained healing and damage into your kit.

Blood Fiend is generally more difficult to use, and will make you weak to stealth thieves. It seems like you are playing in WvW, so this will be a very common encounter you have, and Blood Fiend is really going to hurt you there. CC is your best option, WoB isn’t that great with such low healing power.

I could try, I’ll start trying to remember to record, I just don’t know how great my FPS is when I do it :P (I play with 20-30 normally, recording drops that to like 20).

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: WereDragon.6083

WereDragon.6083

Few basic and general tips. Make sure you dump reapers mark in the center of his shadows refuge IF he leaves it early he takes relieved.

Save flesh golems charge for when he drops BP to attempt to stealth. ((IF he’s a D/P thief)) If not, hit him with the charge as a follow up to fiends immobile.

Mark of blood should be at your feet on cooldown, not only does it give early warning it does about 2k bleed damage ((When not conditioned speccced)) and regen.

The second he’s out of stealth you want to Dagger 3 to root him and burst, he’ll most likely drop BP or shadow’s refuge at this point, reapers mark him out of refuge or have fleshy charge through his BP, at this point he should be init starved, if you haven’t burned bone minions nows the time to crush him with their amazing burst.

If he gets on you deathshroud up and fear him off, this is a life saver in dire straits. Also your 4 and 5 STILL hit him in stealth even if you don’t have a visual for it ((Tested this on my thief in WvW about a week ago and despite stealthed I still took damage from it.))

What do we say to the god of death? Not Today….
Eleshod|80 Thief|Tarnished Coast
Malsavias|80 Necromancer| Tarnished Coast

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: Laserbolt.6731

Laserbolt.6731

I have been doing well with my MM necro (Alien Captain on Jade Quarry).

But last night I had a stealth thief that just took me down with no trouble every time. like clockwork. He was a little Asura dagger pistol thief who was invisible so much of the time that my minions never hit him much, and he just wore me down steadily to a certain death. Every fight.

Very frustrating. I did use death shroud 4 and 5, but I had trouble hitting him enough to build up any life force.

Scrapper: “Frank from Research”

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: jalmari.3906

jalmari.3906

It’s really difficult to die to thief with tanky type MM. Except if you get stuck somewhere and cannot manage your distance/hp. Just go kill some npc mobs or something before your LF drops too low he wants to wear out your LF.

Guardian 80 Necromancer 80 Ranger 80 Mesmer 80 Elementalist 80 Warrior 80

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: Laserbolt.6731

Laserbolt.6731

Jalmari, if the minions do not hit, you do no damage.

If he is in stealth, the minions stop tracking him.

When he reappears over there, the minions take a while to get to him. And he stealths again right away.

Scrapper: “Frank from Research”

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Stealth thieves are one of the harder fights for a lot of MM builds. It requires you to really play smart.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

MM vs stealthy thief

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Posted by: Laserbolt.6731

Laserbolt.6731

Bhawb,

Smart and execute everything in the chain perfectly, repeatedly, with no timing mistakes.

Scrapper: “Frank from Research”