Main Hand Dagger Condi
The suggestion to add condi on dagger is such a blatant attempt at power creep that I can’t even believe anyone would think this a serious suggestion.
The problem with redditors like you is your strange, and slightly bewildering idea that this is a)power creep and b)bad. No idea why you guys even have this power creep meme, because it’s really, really silly.
If something is bad and unused, buffing it is not “power creep” or whatever word salad you want to shout, it’s bringing it up to par.
Just because the weapon is unused does not mean this is not power creep. The funny thing is that no one acknowledges that the performance of a condition-upgraded dagger, even in Scourge, will still be pretty poor compared to a optimized Scepter Condi setup … and then tell me this isn’t a bad idea? Please tell me what a condi-upgraded dagger Scourge setup even looks like … it looks like a non-optimized condition setup using Viper armor and missing out on the best condition traits while relying on a power weapon to deliver damage. That’s garbage … and that’s the best solution for LF regen on Scourge you are going to support … GG.
This suggestion solves no problem, other than giving dagger a little more DPS in a completely useless way; no power build can do anything with that addition outside of Scourge and I’m doubtful it’s better DPS than Scepter will be on Scourge. It’s just more damage tacked onto dagger, just because people can’t be bothered to swap weapons while using Scourge. If that’s not the definition of power creep, then power creep doesn’t exist.
Power builds need damage increase, power builds can have 750 condition damage coming from might plus other party buff, so a damaging condition isn’t useless.
Dagger it’s a bad PvP weapon.
This could lead to powercreep compared to what exactly?
The funny thing is that no one acknowledges that the performance of a condition-upgraded dagger, even in Scourge, will still be pretty poor compared to a optimized Scepter Condi setu
We are asking to Dagger’s buff not to match scepter dps but to not lose dps.
Scourge need life force generation and/or a better dps on life force generation phase.
Our dps isn’t great (burst =/= dps) and our support isn’t needed in PvE. This could change if they’ll chose to give to a certain rune an effect like “increase damage and condition damage by x% to allies affected by your barriers”
(edited by Vitali.5039)
Power builds need damage increase, power builds can have 750 condition damage coming from might plus other party buff, so a damaging condition isn’t useless."
Thoughtlessly throwing conditions on a power weapon to achieve more damage is not ever going to be a sensible way to achieve more damage on a power build. Period. Not saying that Anet could be nonsensible and do that … but as players, we shouldn’t be promoting that kind of … experiment.
You can have 750 Condi damage from might and other party buff? Wow … that’s almost worth remembering you even have conditions on a weapon ><
We are asking to Dagger’s buff not to match scepter dps but to not lose dps.
To not lose DPS? Are you saying you are willing to trade some of the power damage that dagger has to get a few conditions on it? That’s the worst idea I’ve seen yet. If Scourge needs LF regen, why the hell would I give up some damage for a condition to get it when I can just use vanilla dagger … let’s be absolutely clear here. Dagger does not need a condition for you to equip and use it to get LF on Scourge, so compromising it’s current function to something it already does is not even worth talking about.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
To not lose DPS? Are you saying you are willing to trade some of the power damage that dagger has to get a few conditions on it?
No.
Dps it’s dps (even the old FOTM radiance DH was running Amplified Wrath) no matter where it comes.
Learn to read.
No, DPS matters where it comes from in this game …. if you don’t see this, you don’t understand how traits and skills interact with damage sources.
No, DPS matters where it comes from in this game …. if you don’t see this, you don’t understand how traits and skills interact with damage sources.
“Edit”: Learn to read and to understand the context
Scourge LF isn’t much of an issue if you run spectral armor. Once you get a full tank you get a lot of mileage from it. I wouldn’t want to rely on dagger to get my LF as a scourge.
Life Force isn’t an issue PvP wise.
^^ It only gets better … so you want an unnecessary and marginally effective change on dagger to accommodate people doing PVE that don’t want to swap to improve their LF regen on Scourge. It’s making lots of sense now :/
Yeah but life force isn’t an issue PvE wise either, things die left right and center. Even in raids they find the time to give you trash mobs for LF gain. What’s more the optimal rotation is usually only stepping into shroud to RS4 and RS5 anyways.
Yeah but life force isn’t an issue PvE wise either, things die left right and center. Even in raids they find the time to give you trash mobs for LF gain. What’s more the optimal rotation is usually only stepping into shroud to RS4 and RS5 anyways.
You realise we’re talking about Scourge, which has a much larger life force sink than base necro or reaper.
Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.
Yeah but life force isn’t an issue PvE wise either, things die left right and center. Even in raids they find the time to give you trash mobs for LF gain. What’s more the optimal rotation is usually only stepping into shroud to RS4 and RS5 anyways.
You realise we’re talking about Scourge, which has a much larger life force sink than base necro or reaper.
I’ve responded to the ‘Scourge LF issue’ in a few responses above already. Seeing as we’ve never had the chance to use Scourge in PvE and/or raids, why would I be talking about it in terms of optimal rotations? Whats more, its PvE, why is LF even an issue?
Here is some maths to refute your claim btw:
As a control, lets say, viper gear (no increase in vitality).
A reaper with no vital persistance (therefore having the lowest degeneration possible) has 13256 LF. The reaper loses 398 LF to base degen, even if he isn’t taking any damage at all.
Now assuming the scourge has the same life force pool (arenanet has made no indication that it is calculated any differently)
A scourge, with vital persistance (reduces cooldown .’. increasing LF expenditure) spamming shade2, will be using 346 LF per second. At 4 seconds this is near optimal for triggering demonic lore.
Yes, you can make the argument that you can blow all your shade skills at once to use more LF, but that would not be optimal. But you should remember shroud will consume LF upon taking damage.
TLDR: You can spam Shade2 for lower LF expenditure than just sitting in shroud.
(edited by Ramoth.9064)
Shade 2, but you will also be using Shade 3 and 5 frequently, with Shade 5 being on-cooldown.
How do your numbers look now?
Shade 2, but you will also be using Shade 3 and 5 frequently, with Shade 5 being on-cooldown.
How do your numbers look now?
How do your numbers look when you get smashed in the face while in shroud, while a scourge can still gather LF and use shade skills?
Shade 2, but you will also be using Shade 3 and 5 frequently, with Shade 5 being on-cooldown.
How do your numbers look now?
How do your numbers look when you get smashed in the face while in shroud, while a scourge can still gather LF and use shade skills?
Since there’s a 30 second interval before I’m in Shroud again for PvE, things are rather different. In PvP, I’m not aiming for spamming my Shade skills off cooldown.
^^ It only gets better … so you want an unnecessary and marginally effective change on dagger to accommodate people doing PVE that don’t want to swap to improve their LF regen on Scourge. It’s making lots of sense now :/
#peopleswhodon’twanttouseweaponswap meme boy, if you’ll text me your address I’ll be happy to send you a free english-x language dictionary.
Shade 2, but you will also be using Shade 3 and 5 frequently, with Shade 5 being on-cooldown.
How do your numbers look now?
How do your numbers look when you get smashed in the face while in shroud, while a scourge can still gather LF and use shade skills?
Since there’s a 30 second interval before I’m in Shroud again for PvE, things are rather different. In PvP, I’m not aiming for spamming my Shade skills off cooldown.
Then what’s your argument? That in a realistic situation any number of things can happen? I’m just saying in response to Lahmia, the idea that Scourge has a larger sink when using LF is misleading, its relatively the same, with pros and cons afforded to shades and shrouds in terms of utility and LF gain.
Shade 2, but you will also be using Shade 3 and 5 frequently, with Shade 5 being on-cooldown.
How do your numbers look now?
How do your numbers look when you get smashed in the face while in shroud, while a scourge can still gather LF and use shade skills?
Since there’s a 30 second interval before I’m in Shroud again for PvE, things are rather different. In PvP, I’m not aiming for spamming my Shade skills off cooldown.
Then what’s your argument? That in a realistic situation any number of things can happen? I’m just saying in response to Lahmia, the idea that Scourge has a larger sink when using LF is misleading, its relatively the same, with pros and cons afforded to shades and shrouds in terms of utility and LF gain.
I believe the main focus here is raid scenarios regarding Scourge life force. With Condi Reaper, even if you take damage in Shroud, it doesn’t matter much because you only enter once every 20-30 seconds. With Scourge, spending life force constantly is a large amount of damage in a condi build. Scepter/Dagger or Scepter/Torch just can’t produce enough life force to fuel the Shade skills, and no utility skills are sufficient for generating life force either, due to long cooldowns and/or low gains.
The suggestion to add condi on dagger is such a blatant attempt at power creep that I can’t even believe anyone would think this a serious suggestion.
The problem with redditors like you is your strange, and slightly bewildering idea that this is a)power creep and b)bad. No idea why you guys even have this power creep meme, because it’s really, really silly.
If something is bad and unused, buffing it is not “power creep” or whatever word salad you want to shout, it’s bringing it up to par.
Just because the weapon is unused does not mean this is not power creep. The funny thing is that no one acknowledges that the performance of a condition-upgraded dagger, even in Scourge, will still be pretty poor compared to a optimized Scepter Condi setup … and then tell me this isn’t a bad idea? Please tell me what a condi-upgraded dagger Scourge setup even looks like … it looks like a non-optimized condition setup using Viper armor and missing out on the best condition traits while relying on a power weapon to deliver damage. That’s garbage … and that’s the best solution for LF regen on Scourge you are going to support … GG.
This suggestion solves no problem, other than giving dagger a little more DPS in a completely useless way; no power build can do anything with that addition outside of Scourge and I’m doubtful it’s better DPS than Scepter will be on Scourge. It’s just more damage tacked onto dagger, just because people can’t be bothered to swap weapons while using Scourge. If that’s not the definition of power creep, then power creep doesn’t exist.
We aren’t asking for this to not weapon swap. Weapon swapping is already a thing for many Professions. This is about having to switch to Mainhand Dagger every 9 seconds for a burst of quick Life Force to maintain, and a good flow of Shade skills. We literally have to. Also it would be the same Traits with just a Mainhand Dagger. It would be Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch.
The suggestion is for the loss of DPS with having to switch to a Power weapon to be smaller.
I don’t get how people don’t understand this simple suggestion. This thread is filled with a bunch of people arguing over a reasonable and smart suggestion. If you don’t get why this is needed then you’re just bad at the game I guess. This is needed for PvE.
All these suggestions about using Dessicate or Spectral armor in PvE instead are laughable too. Doing that would lower DPS even more than just camping Scepter. It’s like you guys saying this didn’t even test Scourge, and actually know nothing about it.
^^ It only gets better … so you want an unnecessary and marginally effective change on dagger to accommodate people doing PVE that don’t want to swap to improve their LF regen on Scourge. It’s making lots of sense now :/
We don’t want Mainhand Dagger to be the main weapon. Read the thread and replies. If you’re not swapping when Condition, then you’re losing out on Geomancy.
This forum is really starting to make me think people on the official forums don’t know their Profession’s mechanics well.
Shade 2, but you will also be using Shade 3 and 5 frequently, with Shade 5 being on-cooldown.
How do your numbers look now?
How do your numbers look when you get smashed in the face while in shroud, while a scourge can still gather LF and use shade skills?
Since there’s a 30 second interval before I’m in Shroud again for PvE, things are rather different. In PvP, I’m not aiming for spamming my Shade skills off cooldown.
Then what’s your argument? That in a realistic situation any number of things can happen? I’m just saying in response to Lahmia, the idea that Scourge has a larger sink when using LF is misleading, its relatively the same, with pros and cons afforded to shades and shrouds in terms of utility and LF gain.
I believe the main focus here is raid scenarios regarding Scourge life force. With Condi Reaper, even if you take damage in Shroud, it doesn’t matter much because you only enter once every 20-30 seconds. With Scourge, spending life force constantly is a large amount of damage in a condi build. Scepter/Dagger or Scepter/Torch just can’t produce enough life force to fuel the Shade skills, and no utility skills are sufficient for generating life force either, due to long cooldowns and/or low gains.
Hmm, you know, glad we had this debate, I’m going to crunch the numbers to see what kind of HP values are most optimal. For scepter alone to maintain Sh2, Sh3 and Sh5 constantly being used, you’d need a life force pool of 67k, which is…way too much HP to comprehend.
However, it got me thinking, staff might be viable, if it meant constant shade uptime, since that might out dps whatever your scepter can provide.
Constantly using Sh2, Sh3 and Sh5 is about a 5.7% consumption to a viper scourge, with VP and Gluttony. Staff auto is about 2.5% per second
Sh2 and Sh5 alone is just 3.4% per second!
(edited by Ramoth.9064)
Someone said that dagger is no longer power weapon cause of self bleeds on 3.
Those actually make it even more power weapon.
These are used to make #2 skill stronger. Stronger life drain if self bleeding, stronger power damage if enemy bleeds.
This is truly a great move from a-net – making a power necro who was outta loop in terms of condition gameplay, actually care and benefit from manipulating condies on himself ane enemies.
Necro’s own DPS sucks, that is true. But i am seeing and liking what they’ve been doing recently with him on other fronts. How they attached unique gameplay and roles for his weapons (dagger, axe gs).
Axe is now a ranged execute weapon that grows in power the more vulnerable the foe is. Greatsword received sustain option worthy of a reaper (the health regen).
And dagger now encourges paying attention to self condies and those on enemy on a power build for increased damage and life steal.
As Obtena pointed out – LF generation on scourge is a scourge issue, not a dagger issue. Dagger has a very good spot to sit on. Also i use it a lot in spvp and got no complaints, for those saying it’s subpar in spvp setting.
(edited by ZeftheWicked.3076)
Someone said that dagger is no longer power weapon cause of self bleeds on 3.
Those actually make it even more power weapon.
And to me Dagger mainhand isn’t a 100% power weapon anymore since Dark Pact’s changes.
Somoeone should really learn to read.
And with my quote I was clearly saying to tho ones opposed to give to dagger a direct damaging condition that dagger isn’t a condition weapon but neither a power only one.
Then you were saying that to me. I’m one of those opposed. Because if they add damaging condi (a real one, not self bleed to feed life siphon’s force), then they will gut something else. And dagger occupies a very needed and practical spot of best weapon for sustain, and swift striking, something necro doesn’t get with every weapon set he chooses.
Then you were saying that to me. I’m one of those opposed. Because if they add damaging condi (a real one, not self bleed to feed life siphon’s force), then they will gut something else. And dagger occupies a very needed and practical spot of best weapon for sustain, and swift striking, something necro doesn’t get with every weapon set he chooses.
So what about the “in pve only” suggestion?
Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.
(edited by Lahmia.2193)
Then you were saying that to me. I’m one of those opposed. Because if they add damaging condi (a real one, not self bleed to feed life siphon’s force), then they will gut something else. And dagger occupies a very needed and practical spot of best weapon for sustain, and swift striking, something necro doesn’t get with every weapon set he chooses.
Dagger’s Life Siphon it’s one of the most easy skill to interrupt and when the necromancer is channeling the skill it’s more vulnerable, usually ending to take more damage than the restored hp (our poor’s man “evade”), it could be a problem to give it a damaging condition (torment) per pulse with the caster affected by bleeding?
To make dagger deal significant damage we have to stay melee, life force isn’t hard to build in PvP where you have to wait 10 seconds after exiting shroud to have the skill ready, cutting AA’s aftercast to deal more damage and build enough life force PvE “Scourgewise” it’s so strong to nerf another aspect of the weapon? Not to me.
I suspect Scourge will be noticeably more dependant on well-timed dodges, healing support from others, and LF generation rate in PvE. You can already see how much more mechanical Scourge is versus core and Reaper.
Then you were saying that to me. I’m one of those opposed. Because if they add damaging condi (a real one, not self bleed to feed life siphon’s force), then they will gut something else. And dagger occupies a very needed and practical spot of best weapon for sustain, and swift striking, something necro doesn’t get with every weapon set he chooses.
Dagger’s Life Siphon it’s one of the most easy skill to interrupt and when the necromancer is channeling the skill it’s more vulnerable, usually ending to take more damage than the restored hp (our poor’s man “evade”), it could be a problem to give it a damaging condition (torment) per pulse with the caster affected by bleeding?
To make dagger deal significant damage we have to stay melee, life force isn’t hard to build in PvP where you have to wait 10 seconds after exiting shroud to have the skill ready, cutting AA’s aftercast to deal more damage and build enough life force PvE “Scourgewise” it’s so strong to nerf another aspect of the weapon? Not to me.
The problem is that the premise you have makes no sense … Anet’s willingness to change something, and the justification to ask for it are not related to the idea that it’s not a significant buff or shouldn’t require the weapon to be nerfed if conditions get added to it. The suggestion to add conditions to dagger is a conceptual consideration, not a strength one.
I keep seeing the comments from everyone that LF regen on Scourge isn’t actually a problem … but you’re going to go to the lengths of arguing that dagger should have a condition on it anyways because of LF regen on Scourge. This is a nonsensical argument and a nonsensical solution to a non-existent problem; you don’t solve a Scourge-related issue with a buff to a widely available weapon outside of it’s conceived purpose, just because it’s not that big a deal. If Anet didn’t want you to make significant choices between what weapons to swap around in combat, you wouldn’t have weapon swapping. It’s not hard to understand why this will never happen or why it’s a poor idea.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
The suggestion to add conditions to dagger is a conceptual consideration, not a strength one.
Could you explain?
I keep seeing the comments from everyone that LF regen on Scourge isn’t actually a problem …
Link plz, but only if it’s about organized PvE
but you’re going to go to the lengths of arguing that dagger should have a condition on it anyways because of LF regen on Scourge. This is a nonsensical argument and a nonsensical solution to a non-existent problem; you don’t solve a Scourge-related issue with a buff to a widely available weapon outside of it’s conceived purpose, just because it’s not that big a deal.
Why isn’t a big deal? Any suggestion to solve Scourge’s PvE life force issues?
If Anet didn’t want you to make significant choices between what weapons to swap around in combat, you wouldn’t have weapon swapping. It’s not hard to understand why this will never happen or why it’s a poor idea.
Dear weaponswap2k17, we are not asking to buff dagger at the point of outdps scepter but to have a better dps with it. We don’t want to camp dagger like the old core power build but to not lose too much dps while building the needed life force to do our future rotation.
It’s surprising that someone can scream powercreep even when we’re not talking about the duration of the damaging condition, a crucial thing that won’t be implemented by us but by Anet.
I don’t really care what element of the game you want to discuss because the concepts of the especs are not developed to focus on any particular element; some especs work good for somethings and not so good for others; that’s normal and therefore, it’s expected. If Scourge isn’t good in organized PVE, then don’t use it. #choice.
You want a suggestion to solve non-existent Scourge LF regen issues? Here is the best one … making build choices that optimize your LF regen. That doesn’t allow you to optimize other parts of Scourge espec? OK .. that’s not a problem anyways; that’s how MMO’s work … #choice.
Do not pretend that there is a LF regen problem on Scourge in ANY aspect of the game; the perception of this existent problem is simply because of a blatant self-imposed constraint of wanting to take advantage of condition damage while simultaneously applying shades AND gaining LF. If you can’t acknowledge why that’s already quite a significant improvement (and why this condi-buffed dagger idea is completely unwarranted), then you aren’t qualified to talk about changing it. Anyone that thinks they need a condition-buffed dagger to get good LF regen on Scourge is just being obtuse. The tools to make a good LF regen Scourge build already exists.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I don’t really care what element of the game you want to discuss because the concepts of the especs are not developed to focus on any particular element; some especs work good for somethings and not so good for others; that’s normal and therefore, it’s expected. If Scourge isn’t good in organized PVE, then don’t use it. #choice.
You want a suggestion to solve non-existent Scourge LF regen issues? Here is the best one … making build choices that optimize your LF regen. That doesn’t allow you to optimize other parts of Scourge espec? OK .. that’s not a problem anyways; that’s how MMO’s work … #choice.
Do not pretend that there is a LF regen problem on Scourge in ANY aspect of the game; the perception of this existent problem is simply because of a blatant self-imposed constraint of wanting to take advantage of condition damage while simultaneously applying shades AND gaining LF. If you can’t acknowledge why that’s already quite a significant improvement (and why this condi-buffed dagger idea is completely unwarranted), then you aren’t qualified to talk about changing it. Anyone that thinks they need a condition-buffed dagger to get good LF regen on Scourge is just being obtuse. The tools to make a good LF regen Scourge build already exists.
What are your qualifications btw? You often speak like you are the herald of Arenanet yet time and time again your opinions have been refuted. While I don’t agree MH dagger should be applying DoT conditions, the weapon itself is considerably hamstrung in almost every game mode. Axe outperforms dagger in almost every aspect, and the idea that dagger is usable as some sort of life-leeching sustain is paltry. The recent changes by Anet to double down on this idea has seen little improvement to the weapon. You don’t want to use it in PvP because kiting is already an issue, and you don’t want to use it in raids either because power specs have no standing.
So, if you are so qualified to speak your opinions regarding weapon choices and such, what good is the MH dagger now? The latest change to quickening thirst was almost a slap to the face to MH dagger since now you can reap the full benefits of the trait without equipping double dagger. And I refute your claim that certain weapons are more desirable for certain e-specs as being intentional. Thieves are actually incredibly well designed in terms of weapon choices. E-specs on the thief are supplementary to their core gameplay, therefore relying more on the core specializations rather than their E-specs.
Over the beta weekend I was able to capitalize on deadeye builds using every weapon combination. The same cannot be said about the Scourge.
Bad troll Obtempt, criticize and not discuss. Remarkable.
Look guys this is really simple: There is no way you are going to convince anyone that a condi-buffed dagger is going to solve a LF regen problem on Scourge because a condi-buffed dagger will do LF regen just as well as the vanilla dagger does it. That’s just fact.
The problem you are solving is making dagger more appealing to use in Scourge. That’s NOT the same problem at LF regen. The worst part is that somehow, you push this idea like it is the BEST and ONLY way to solve whatever LF regen issue you believe Scourge has. That’s just not thoughtful and makes no sense.
I won’t deny I’m full on criticizing this idea because it does absolutely nothing to solve LF Regen issue you claim it’s solving. You’re going to ask Anet to make a change and waste their time giving you something that doesn’t address the problem. That’s not smart.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Look guys this is really simple: There is no way you are going to convince anyone that a condi-buffed dagger is going to solve a LF regen on Scourge because it does LF regen just as good as vanilla dagger does it. That’s just fact.
The problem you are solving is making dagger more appealing to use in Scourge. That’s NOT the same problem at LF regen. The worst part is that somehow, you think this is the BEST and ONLY way to solve whatever LF regen issue Scourge has. You’ve just decided this HAS to be the way it’s done. That’s just not thoughtful and makes no sense.
The OP wanted conditions on dagger to open up more options, you’re firing off on tangents and you’ve still yet to show how ‘qualified’ you are on all this discussion.
I’ve answered to the OP, the MH dagger is lacking build options, even in the role it is designed for it performs poorly at. What’s your reasoning other than the age old ‘Arenanet knows best’.
Options? What option does a conditon-based dagger give you that you don’t already have with the current dagger stats? The option to have a minuscule amount of damage added to a Scourge build that uses dagger? Wow … I’m totally overwhelmed by the significant increase in options that gives me.
The fact is that this game has never really been giving us overwhelming options IF you are looking for optimal performance. Adding a condition to dagger will not address that problem. I’ve already addressed this in a previous post; performance players will not think a condi-buffed dagger a viable option any more than vanilla dagger; style players will not care and use whatever weapon they want regardless of what you add to it.
Since you want to steer the conversation in that direction, then I will say that condi-buffed dagger will not fix LF regen issues OR significantly address ‘options’ on a Scourge-based build. This is a poorly thought out suggestion.
The suggestion simply makes dagger more appealing to use because of the increase in damage, in a not very significant or thoughtful way either. That’s not even related to Scourge necessarily, which is why I think the whole idea is just a ruse to buff dagger.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Options for what? What option does a conditon-based dagger give you that you don’t already have? The option to have a miniscule amount of damage added to a Scourge build that uses dagger? Wow … I’m totally overwhelmed by the significant increase in options that gives me.
The fact is that this game has never really been giving us overwhelming options IF you are looking for optimal performance. Adding a condition to dagger will not address that problem. I’ve already addressed this in a previous post; performance players will not think this a a viable option; style players will not care and use whatever they want regardless.
Um, as a melee weapon, poison would be excellent for starters. Power dagger, on top of being kited, does so little damage numerous classes can out heal it easily. Look at the thief dagger design, capable of both power and condition.
You have no vulnerability, insufficient snare, and no pressure. Axe has great spike potential, scepter has pressure, staff has utility and zone control. Dagger has what again? And if you have to supplement dagger with warhorn to make it work, that’s even more laughable.
Other conditions? Blindness would be good, it’d actually give dagger options to run with curses for chill, and actually make dagger/dagger a viable comprehensive weapon set.
As suggested earlier by me, cripple? The thing is, you see life force generation by dagger as some sort of added benefit; its not. It just happens to be a staple across all weapon sets. Just because it generates LF does not mean that it is the core function of the dagger. If you think Arenanet’s intentions are correct as to that in itself being sufficient for a weapon, then they have no used the dagger sufficiently in practice. As it stands now, the dagger has no core function.
By the way, your qualifications please?
Oh and torment on 3rd auto would be great too. See how that will create synergy with scourge’s demonic lore? Synergy = options. Tada!
And even without scourge, you’re adding the one condition that punishes people from kiting you, which is the main issue with dagger in the first place. Which gives you the option of running power condition hybrid amulets. Options! Tada! Whodafunkit?
I mean, to be fair, my first post in this thread agrees that dagger could use a buff, but at least do it in a honest and useful way. Any weapon can get a condition that could be useful with Scourge … but let’s not pretend that a dagger condi buff is in any way specific to Scourge. You want Anet to go buff dagger because of Scourge? Let me tell you about what happens when game devs buff something for the wrong reasons … how often do you get a solution you wanted?
But whatever, you guys go ahead and continue the ruse that Scourge needs a condi-buffed dagger because of options. Maybe you will get daze or taunt …
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I mean, to be fair, my first post in this thread agrees that dagger could use a buff, but at least do it in a honest and useful way. Any weapon can get a condition that could be useful with Scourge … but let’s not pretend that a dagger condi buff is in any way specific to Scourge. You want Anet to go buff dagger because of Scourge? Let me tell you about what happens when game devs buff something for the wrong reasons … how often do you get a solution you wanted?
But whatever, you guys go ahead and continue the ruse that Scourge needs a condi-buffed dagger. Maybe you will get daze or taunt …
Lol, no one here is under the impression Arenanet actually reads the profession forums, or listens to player suggestions. Doesn’t stop people from discussing it.
Someone said that dagger is no longer power weapon cause of self bleeds on 3.
Those actually make it even more power weapon.These are used to make #2 skill stronger. Stronger life drain if self bleeding, stronger power damage if enemy bleeds.
This is truly a great move from a-net – making a power necro who was outta loop in terms of condition gameplay, actually care and benefit from manipulating condies on himself ane enemies.
Necro’s own DPS sucks, that is true. But i am seeing and liking what they’ve been doing recently with him on other fronts. How they attached unique gameplay and roles for his weapons (dagger, axe gs).
Axe is now a ranged execute weapon that grows in power the more vulnerable the foe is. Greatsword received sustain option worthy of a reaper (the health regen).
And dagger now encourges paying attention to self condies and those on enemy on a power build for increased damage and life steal.As Obtena pointed out – LF generation on scourge is a scourge issue, not a dagger issue. Dagger has a very good spot to sit on. Also i use it a lot in spvp and got no complaints, for those saying it’s subpar in spvp setting.
Pls great move? only in pvp you have the chance to keep self bleeding. On pve this is useless especially that the skill includes one goal… And there is not even a transfer for allies on Life siphon.
(edited by Silmariena.6205)
I mean, to be fair, my first post in this thread agrees that dagger could use a buff, but at least do it in a honest and useful way. Any weapon can get a condition that could be useful with Scourge … but let’s not pretend that a dagger condi buff is in any way specific to Scourge. You want Anet to go buff dagger because of Scourge? Let me tell you about what happens when game devs buff something for the wrong reasons … how often do you get a solution you wanted?
But whatever, you guys go ahead and continue the ruse that Scourge needs a condi-buffed dagger. Maybe you will get daze or taunt …
Lol, no one here is under the impression Arenanet actually reads the profession forums, or listens to player suggestions. Doesn’t stop people from discussing it.
Who’s asking you to stop? I got no problem discussing what ideas are bad, especially in the case where Anet might even be thinking about doing something as far out as these suggestions are.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I mean, to be fair, my first post in this thread agrees that dagger could use a buff, but at least do it in a honest and useful way. Any weapon can get a condition that could be useful with Scourge … but let’s not pretend that a dagger condi buff is in any way specific to Scourge. You want Anet to go buff dagger because of Scourge? Let me tell you about what happens when game devs buff something for the wrong reasons … how often do you get a solution you wanted?
But whatever, you guys go ahead and continue the ruse that Scourge needs a condi-buffed dagger. Maybe you will get daze or taunt …
Lol, no one here is under the impression Arenanet actually reads the profession forums, or listens to player suggestions. Doesn’t stop people from discussing it.
Who’s asking you to stop? I got no problem discussing what ideas are bad, especially in the case where Anet might even be thinking about doing something as far out as these suggestions are.
Why not tell why ideas are goordd or bad instead of point what ideas seems bad to you?
To me: any changes that make faster LF generation and damage buff could be great.
Increasing power dps at the point of outdps greatsword is bad, same for scepter with condition. Giving a damaging condition to Life Siphon (very rarely used in PvE) it’s a good idea to make MH dagger more versatile and increase builds variety
I did explain myself, many times … it’s not like I respond in a few incoherent sentences like most other people. I can’t be asked to continually repeat my points just because you want to ignore them.
Not sure, maybe you just don’t care or understand what I’m saying. Clearly you are of the idea that a weapon just just a random assortment of things that can be ‘rerolled’ whenever it suits players desires. I don’t think that’s a realistic way to view weapons concepts in any MMO.
I think it goes without saying that adding ‘stuff’ to any weapon makes it more versatile and increases build variety … yet all the weapons we have are limited to certain ‘stuff’ … that’s because weapons are bound by a concept. Simply making a weapon more versatile is not a good reason to buff a weapon; that’s evident by examining how the game works. Instead of a few versatile weapons, Anet has given us a range of Weapon choices and swapping to address versatility. Not only that, but they continue to add more weapons with each Espec. Clearly any suggestion that we should have more versatility through weapon buffs is a stark contrast to Anet’s idea of how to delivery versatility. The suggestion that dagger condi buff would increase versatility, while true, doesn’t align with how Anet gives us build versatility and therefore, doesn’t actaully make it a good idea to do so for that reason.
So again, LF regen, versatility, options … whatever reasoning has been presented so far … none of these things are best and only solved by condi-buffed dagger … or even make sense with the current approach Anet takes to develop the game.
To be completely fair, the original suggestion is so poorly presented, it’s not even clear why the OP wants a condition of dagger; “Opening up options” is terribly vague … It’s just a half hearted attempt to grab more damage IMO. I mean, what ‘option’ is being opened with a small condi buff on dagger auto? Are we going to be able to make good condi builds with that? Not kitten likely. Can I contemplate alternate stats? Not for a smattering of a few damage conditions.
Seriously … WHAT does the class gain? What are these “options opening up” for versatile builds? Do not confuse increased function as an open floodgate for some magical vault of builds that we didn’t have access to because dagger didn’t have a condition on it!!! It’s a farce.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Seems like for someone swap is really good.
Dagger is a fast life force building weapon and one of our worst PvP weapon (where balance should be guaranteed), have it buffed have sense, but not on power level.. it shouldn’t be more damaging than a e-spec weapon such greatsword. If our weapons will not have some changes and, again, our profession will have a bad organized PvE build the only required swap in raid will be “to another profession”.
Again.
#swapchoices
So your point is … if we don’t get weapon changes, the class will remain bad for organized PVE (I assume you mean raids?)
So you’re going to tell me that a condition-buffed dagger is the answer to that? Is that seriously what you are saying? That makes no sense. Getting a few condition applications on a dagger will NOT make necro any better an ‘organized raid’ class than it is now, or might be in the future with Scourge. It’s just too insignificant a change for that.
Even if weapon buffs ARE the answer to that, why have you concluded that the Dagger is the best weapon for that and that condi buffs are the best method on it? That again, makes no sense.
So your point is … if we don’t get weapon changes, the class will remain bad for organized PVE (I assume you mean raids?)
So you’re going to tell me that a condition-buffed dagger is the answer to that? Is that seriously what you are saying? That makes no sense. Getting a few condition applications on a dagger will NOT make necro any better an ‘organized raid’ class than it is now, or might be in the future with Scourge. It’s just too insignificant a change for that.
Even if weapon buffs ARE the answer to that, why have you concluded that the Dagger is the best weapon for that and that condi buffs are the best method on it? That again, makes no sense.
The enteire thread it’s about that.
As for my conclusion you can read it above.
I mean, to be fair, my first post in this thread agrees that dagger could use a buff, but at least do it in a honest and useful way. Any weapon can get a condition that could be useful with Scourge … but let’s not pretend that a dagger condi buff is in any way specific to Scourge. You want Anet to go buff dagger because of Scourge? Let me tell you about what happens when game devs buff something for the wrong reasons … how often do you get a solution you wanted?
But whatever, you guys go ahead and continue the ruse that Scourge needs a condi-buffed dagger. Maybe you will get daze or taunt …
Lol, no one here is under the impression Arenanet actually reads the profession forums, or listens to player suggestions. Doesn’t stop people from discussing it.
Who’s asking you to stop? I got no problem discussing what ideas are bad, especially in the case where Anet might even be thinking about doing something as far out as these suggestions are.
Um, you are. Not literally, but the implications are definitely there, of which many people here will attest to that.
I did explain myself, many times … it’s not like I respond in a few incoherent sentences like most other people. I can’t be asked to continually repeat my points just because you want to ignore them.
Not sure, maybe you just don’t care or understand what I’m saying. Clearly you are of the idea that a weapon just just a random assortment of things that can be ‘rerolled’ whenever it suits players desires. I don’t think that’s a realistic way to view weapons concepts in any MMO.
I think it goes without saying that adding ‘stuff’ to any weapon makes it more versatile and increases build variety … yet all the weapons we have are limited to certain ‘stuff’ … that’s because weapons are bound by a concept. Simply making a weapon more versatile is not a good reason to buff a weapon; that’s evident by examining how the game works. Instead of a few versatile weapons, Anet has given us a range of Weapon choices and swapping to address versatility. Not only that, but they continue to add more weapons with each Espec. Clearly any suggestion that we should have more versatility through weapon buffs is a stark contrast to Anet’s idea of how to delivery versatility. The suggestion that dagger condi buff would increase versatility, while true, doesn’t align with how Anet gives us build versatility and therefore, doesn’t actaully make it a good idea to do so for that reason.
So again, LF regen, versatility, options … whatever reasoning has been presented so far … none of these things are best and only solved by condi-buffed dagger … or even make sense with the current approach Anet takes to develop the game.
To be completely fair, the original suggestion is so poorly presented, it’s not even clear why the OP wants a condition of dagger; “Opening up options” is terribly vague … It’s just a half hearted attempt to grab more damage IMO. I mean, what ‘option’ is being opened with a small condi buff on dagger auto? Are we going to be able to make good condi builds with that? Not kitten likely. Can I contemplate alternate stats? Not for a smattering of a few damage conditions.
Seriously … WHAT does the class gain? What are these “options opening up” for versatile builds? Do not confuse increased function as an open floodgate for some magical vault of builds that we didn’t have access to because dagger didn’t have a condition on it!!! It’s a farce.
And no. I blew you out of the water in regards to how conditions on dagger will open more options. Do you want me to do it again? You had no reasonable reply for my examples other than agreeing with me that dagger is bad and nay nay nay.
You would be exactly the kind of guy who says ‘corrupt boon’ on scepter auto won’t do anything useful!!!!
And look at revenant, the buffs to the condition traits made sword, a power weapon, usable for condition builds. Staff, a support weapon, is usable for power builds.
Thieves can almost use any weapon for power or condition. How does that go for your “weapon concepts”. You know very little about this game from what you’ve indicated in your arguments.
(edited by Ramoth.9064)
Go ahead and do it again … You would simply be demonstrating that you don’t know the difference between increased functionality vs. having more build options. I mean, if you think a condition applied on dagger AA makes it open to some kind of new builds we don’t already have with the current dagger, go ahead and post what those new builds we haven’t seen look like and explain why we can’t make that build with the current dagger … shouldn’t be hard because obviously you’re telling me you have tons to choose from.
I’m on vacation until Tuesday … I can’t wait to see all these awesome condition dagger builds you’re going to post because of the new options a condition dagger opens up for us.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Lol chill on auto attack. Now viable with reaper. Thanks, you’re done.