Guild Wars 2

Before we start here are my credentials:
1. A lot of necro games on PvP, made ruby in season one with necro.
2. Cleared all raid bosses with necro(66 insights), including a full clear of wing 2 on release week of that wing.
3. Lots of experience with both power and viper necro.

As of now you can go into the DPS testing room and see exact DPS. Under ideal situations, standard raid buffs + max boons, a power berserker necro can only hit a 10k dps on average.

To put things into comparison, a viper necro with 1 set of horror can average 17.5k DPS without food. With food, that number can climb to 20k very easily. Also under the right circumstances, viper necro can quadruple the DPS of a power necro when more horrors are spawning in raid fights. With 4 sets of horrors up in some raid fights, you can hit at least 40k DPS easily. On another note, power necro has almost zero group utility. Viper necro offers massive aoe control and group condition control, which is the reason why they are a top tier pick in raid wing 2 as of this moment.

Keep in mind, the DPS golem can not measure epidemic bounces and transfer damage. If you want to consider epidemic bounces and transfer damage, with 1 set of horrors, a viper necro can go above 25k DPS very very easily. Now compare that to the pathetic 10k dps of a power necro.

As of now power necros are COMPLETELY NOT VIABLE. Frankly if you play it, you are gimping yourself of the class. When people ask for meta builds only for a fractal or dungeon, they have the right to kick you because it’s not good and not meta. So please don’t be surprised if people kick you for playing power necro when the group leader asked for specificly meta builds only.

Now frankly, I do not like this and I believe both power and condition should both be viable. Please brainstorm ideas on how to make power not suck.

dont know what you were testing but my power necro did around 24k dps yesterday

Post screenshot of your 1 million hp golem results. It’s general consensus among the entire raid community that 10k give or take is the number, and maybe 15k-16k peak if fight is short and wells are up. Unless I see proof, your 24k dps on a power necro is full of crap. That’s number is approaching DH and thief tier.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

Refer here for more numbers. Notice my condi necro number matches up very nicely. 20k vs 20k. Well mine is 17.5k without food, they used food, but with food 20k is very easily attainable.

power necro has lacked viability since day one. dont hold your breath.

It’s pretty sad that even after an entire class revamp and specialization focusing on a Power Weapon (Greatsword) that Power Necro is still bad.

I am salty to, be honest, because I main a Power Necro and a Condi Berserker. Guess what? Can’t raid with either.

Julius Seizure.4985:

It’s pretty sad that even after an entire class revamp and specialization focusing on a Power Weapon (Greatsword) that Power Necro is still bad.

I am salty to, be honest, because I main a Power Necro and a Condi Berserker. Guess what? Can’t raid with either.

The really sad thing is meanwhile power necro is completely garbage, condi necro is a top tier PvE pick anywhere in the game; they are insanely good at raids and high fractals. It’s just a total polar opposite in terms of viability. Even look at the DPS, a condi necro has the potential to reach 30-40k+ DPS even. Look where a power necro is stuck at, 15k-16k peak max.

Im a bit surprised, theres something bothering me.

Raids are 10-man.

Why is power necro suddenly “the right to kick you because it’s not good and not meta” in old 5-man content??

I respect your PVE Raid experience, for pvp using the division system as a metric is more of a minus but lets ignore that…. did you simply overlook or forgot about the old stuff?

Power necro is and has been medium mehish there but certainly not kick worthy.

If the group leader specifically asked for META BUILDS ONLY, and you show up with a power necro build (which is not meta at all), he can kick you. If group leader didn’t ask for anything, play whatever you want.

Oh Snapalope.1378:

If the group leader specifically asked for META BUILDS ONLY, and you show up with a power necro build (which is not meta at all), he can kick you. If group leader didn’t ask for anything, play whatever you want.

Then you should check some of the necro in pve drama that was around just before HoT.
But i think its a global missunderstanding of the term “meta”.

In pvp, a “anti-meta” is always present and even usually the one which wins the finals in a tournament. Its a description of playstyle.

in PVE, the meta = “DPS it down ASAP….and maybe bring a reflect”

So, and it has been proven, that in 5man power necro ISNT TERRIBLE and its doing the same role of dps just a bit worse… its not antimeta to have a power necro in a LFG fractal….and its far from kick worthy.
Some pros even: its super easy and consistent so you should get better results with LFG guys and if youre waiting +5min youre better of 4maning the thing in meantime…..just saying

A real PVE antimeta would be the cleric bunker guard you occasianly find. AND it still gets the job done

Disclaimer: this is all for dung/fractal ofc as theyre easy or just take 10s longer, for raids you do need to be strict as its all or wipe with nothing.

Flumek.9043:

Im a bit surprised, theres something bothering me.

Raids are 10-man.

Why is power necro suddenly “the right to kick you because it’s not good and not meta” in old 5-man content??

I respect your PVE Raid experience, for pvp using the division system as a metric is more of a minus but lets ignore that…. did you simply overlook or forgot about the old stuff?

Power necro is and has been medium mehish there but certainly not kick worthy.

If you are clocking 10k as a power necro, then you are doing 1/3 less than my thief while bringing no party utility besides hard CC for breakbars, which my thief brings as well.

10k is absolute bottom tier DPS, even less than mesmers who bring alacrity.

I agree with the OP. It’s pretty bad.

MadRabbit.3179:

Flumek.9043:

Im a bit surprised, theres something bothering me.

Raids are 10-man.

Why is power necro suddenly “the right to kick you because it’s not good and not meta” in old 5-man content??

I respect your PVE Raid experience, for pvp using the division system as a metric is more of a minus but lets ignore that…. did you simply overlook or forgot about the old stuff?

Power necro is and has been medium mehish there but certainly not kick worthy.

If you are clocking 10k as a power necro, then you are doing 1/3 less than my thief while bringing no party utility besides hard CC for breakbars, which my thief brings as well.

10k is absolute bottom tier DPS, even less than mesmers who bring alacrity.

I agree with the OP. It’s pretty bad.

youre doing 30k in the raid testing dummy with everything….youre doing i think 25k in a real raid…..and youre doing 15-20k in a 5man group…..a power necro i think nemesis had 14k but it has aoe capabilties

im saying dont mix 5man power necro with ideal testing zone planets allign 10man buffs

Reduce vuln stacking across the board on other classes, give power necro some sort of monopoly on it, also give necs a trait in spite which adds a debuff upon applying vuln after 25 stacks are hit which lasts until x hits are dealt and increases damage dealt further (basically bonus vuln stacks). Would already go a long way making a power-necro more desirable since vuln would be more scarce, the bonus dps is wanted and power necro can add even more to it while sticking to the “debuffer”-theme necro has.

Imo, vuln-stacking in PvE is… well, kittened as it is now. In group content it’s pretty much almost capped, no matter what, simply because there’s so much vuln thrown around passively from traits on multiple classes, that’s before actual skill-usage.

Sadly, Anet still refuses to create seperate PvP and PvE-balance so that’s not really going to happen as it is balanced in PvP.

Flumek.9043:

youre doing 30k in the raid testing dummy with everything….youre doing i think 25k in a real raid…..and youre doing 15-20k in a 5man group…..a power necro i think nemesis had 14k but it has aoe capabilties

im saying dont mix 5man power necro with ideal testing zone planets allign 10man buffs

I run power for traditional 5 man content because its pretty chill to play but we need to keep in mind that you could run pretty much anything there and still faceroll it.

And even with optimal buffs on both, power is really far behind condi. And keep in mind you can’t get those sweet epi pings in the dps test area so the Necro dps in pic is lower than it should be.

Power Nec definitely needs some kind of buff both for PvE and PvP.

Aktium.9506:

Flumek.9043:

youre doing 30k in the raid testing dummy with everything….youre doing i think 25k in a real raid…..and youre doing 15-20k in a 5man group…..a power necro i think nemesis had 14k but it has aoe capabilties

im saying dont mix 5man power necro with ideal testing zone planets allign 10man buffs

I run power for traditional 5 man content because its pretty chill to play but we need to keep in mind that you could run pretty much anything there and still faceroll it.

And even with optimal buffs on both, power is really far behind condi. And keep in mind you can’t get those sweet epi pings in the dps test area so the Necro dps in pic is lower than it should be.

Power Nec definitely needs some kind of buff both for PvE and PvP.

OK, for dungeons, tell me 1 boss that lives longer than 30seconds….thats 50% of the 5man content… condi only has the spin2win as a move with no ramp up…

Now fractals….i havent played them at all since update….how long do bosses last? for all the under 1min ones power should win imo…

How many live long enough for condi to be worth it?

Aaaand, dont forget:

1) YOURE resorting to LFG, so were talking LFG quality ppl, not your guilds speedrun group
2) if you wait longer than 5min, youd be better of 4maning it
3) instead u kicked a 13k dps necro over a 17k thief that spend half the boss in downstate

Yes, i set the standards very low, but thats often reality.

Well tbh, I never use the lfg unless there is no other option.

Flumek.9043:

MadRabbit.3179:

Flumek.9043:

Im a bit surprised, theres something bothering me.

Raids are 10-man.

Why is power necro suddenly “the right to kick you because it’s not good and not meta” in old 5-man content??

I respect your PVE Raid experience, for pvp using the division system as a metric is more of a minus but lets ignore that…. did you simply overlook or forgot about the old stuff?

Power necro is and has been medium mehish there but certainly not kick worthy.

If you are clocking 10k as a power necro, then you are doing 1/3 less than my thief while bringing no party utility besides hard CC for breakbars, which my thief brings as well.

10k is absolute bottom tier DPS, even less than mesmers who bring alacrity.

I agree with the OP. It’s pretty bad.

youre doing 30k in the raid testing dummy with everything….youre doing i think 25k in a real raid…..and youre doing 15-20k in a 5man group…..a power necro i think nemesis had 14k but it has aoe capabilties

im saying dont mix 5man power necro with ideal testing zone planets allign 10man buffs

Are you aware of how percentages work?

Because so far, based on the numbers you are just making up out of thin air, you don’t.

Flumek.9043:

3) instead u kicked a 13k dps necro over a 17k thief that spend half the boss in downstate

Yes, i set the standards very low, but thats often reality.

You mean, you made up a fictitious reality with fictitious numbers to justify power necros not being bad DPS?

Julius Seizure.4985:

It’s pretty sad that even after an entire class revamp and specialization focusing on a Power Weapon (Greatsword) that Power Necro is still bad.

I am salty to, be honest, because I main a Power Necro and a Condi Berserker. Guess what? Can’t raid with either.

Because the revamp was PVP revamp. Useless PvP shouts that are garbage in PvE.

Useless PvP chill/fear traits that are useless in PvE.

Useless reaper shroud that already does less DPS than greatsword autochain, which is already mediocre to begin with.

Hideously long aftercasts and cast times to every greatsword skill and no damage compensation to boot.

When Robert Gee designs classes, much like with the chrono, he makes their traits and abilities with PvP in mind and PvE is an afterthought.

Aktium.9506:

Flumek.9043:

youre doing 30k in the raid testing dummy with everything….youre doing i think 25k in a real raid…..and youre doing 15-20k in a 5man group…..a power necro i think nemesis had 14k but it has aoe capabilties

im saying dont mix 5man power necro with ideal testing zone planets allign 10man buffs

I run power for traditional 5 man content because its pretty chill to play but we need to keep in mind that you could run pretty much anything there and still faceroll it.

And even with optimal buffs on both, power is really far behind condi. And keep in mind you can’t get those sweet epi pings in the dps test area so the Necro dps in pic is lower than it should be.

Power Nec definitely needs some kind of buff both for PvE and PvP.

Are these figures using all the buffs and boons the goldem test provides or did you just do this vanilla?

Mitch.4781:

Are these figures using all the buffs and boons the goldem test provides or did you just do this vanilla?

All of them on both. Goal was to see how each performed under optimal circumstances.

Power is THAT low? Wow. I’ll need to test that myself today. I raid in Vipers now but I started with Power. Using the clunky dps-meter on occasion I don’t remember DPS beeing that close to the bottom. Not great either ofc.

What was the rotation?

MadRabbit.3179:

Flumek.9043:

MadRabbit.3179:

Flumek.9043:

Im a bit surprised, theres something bothering me.

Raids are 10-man.

Why is power necro suddenly “the right to kick you because it’s not good and not meta” in old 5-man content??

I respect your PVE Raid experience, for pvp using the division system as a metric is more of a minus but lets ignore that…. did you simply overlook or forgot about the old stuff?

Power necro is and has been medium mehish there but certainly not kick worthy.

If you are clocking 10k as a power necro, then you are doing 1/3 less than my thief while bringing no party utility besides hard CC for breakbars, which my thief brings as well.

10k is absolute bottom tier DPS, even less than mesmers who bring alacrity.

I agree with the OP. It’s pretty bad.

youre doing 30k in the raid testing dummy with everything….youre doing i think 25k in a real raid…..and youre doing 15-20k in a 5man group…..a power necro i think nemesis had 14k but it has aoe capabilties

im saying dont mix 5man power necro with ideal testing zone planets allign 10man buffs

Are you aware of how percentages work?

Because so far, based on the numbers you are just making up out of thin air, you don’t.

I used old last known to me numbers for 5man.

I repeat. 5man. not your full raid buff and certainly not all the buffs which everyone said you cant even replicatein raids, so its an estimate and you need to always consider how reliable it is…. alacrity will boost fresh air ele, but not a thief autoatack rotation for example…
For raids reddit says 22k for all buffed power necro, so i think we estimate it safely as 2/3 not 1/3 of thief. So i shouldve said 12/18k for the 5man numbers, but i remember specificaly nemesis doing several 12ks with non perfect timewarp and with good timewarps he was over 14k.

And in a shorter fight the number will be higher with wells and the point of power necro is 5x target aoe and it has aoe blind every 20s – so as a direct example you can have a power necro replace a thief for the ascalon fractal where u kill those groups of guards inside walls.

Its not better, but it gets the job done and often safer.

Flumek.9043:

MadRabbit.3179:

Flumek.9043:

MadRabbit.3179:

Flumek.9043:

Im a bit surprised, theres something bothering me.

Raids are 10-man.

Why is power necro suddenly “the right to kick you because it’s not good and not meta” in old 5-man content??

I respect your PVE Raid experience, for pvp using the division system as a metric is more of a minus but lets ignore that…. did you simply overlook or forgot about the old stuff?

Power necro is and has been medium mehish there but certainly not kick worthy.

If you are clocking 10k as a power necro, then you are doing 1/3 less than my thief while bringing no party utility besides hard CC for breakbars, which my thief brings as well.

10k is absolute bottom tier DPS, even less than mesmers who bring alacrity.

I agree with the OP. It’s pretty bad.

youre doing 30k in the raid testing dummy with everything….youre doing i think 25k in a real raid…..and youre doing 15-20k in a 5man group…..a power necro i think nemesis had 14k but it has aoe capabilties

im saying dont mix 5man power necro with ideal testing zone planets allign 10man buffs

Are you aware of how percentages work?

Because so far, based on the numbers you are just making up out of thin air, you don’t.

I used old last known to me numbers for 5man.

I repeat. 5man. not your full raid buff and certainly not all the buffs which everyone said you cant even replicatein raids, so its an estimate and you need to always consider how reliable it is…. alacrity will boost fresh air ele, but not a thief autoatack rotation for example…
For raids reddit says 22k for all buffed power necro, so i think we estimate it safely as 2/3 not 1/3 of thief. So i shouldve said 12/18k for the 5man numbers, but i remember specificaly nemesis doing several 12ks with non perfect timewarp and with good timewarps he was over 14k.

And in a shorter fight the number will be higher with wells and the point of power necro is 5x target aoe and it has aoe blind every 20s – so as a direct example you can have a power necro replace a thief for the ascalon fractal where u kill those groups of guards inside walls.

Its not better, but it gets the job done and often safer.

Sorry in advance for picking on you, but I just don’t have much patience for people completely misinterpreting numbers and stretching the truth out of a bias to make their preferred build or class look stronger than it is.

First, the Reddit comments said an average of 20k; 22k was just the upper boundary. And that’s at unrealistic full buffs. (We’ll go with that number as the standard, instead of the OPs, since later posters provided screenshots)

Then, the numbers for the unrealistic full buffs for thief were quoted as 30k, when they were actually 35k on the Reddit.

THEN, that was reduced number down to 25k for the raid buffs when it was actually 29k (I rounded up to 30k).

THEN, that number was reduced down to 15-20k for 5 man groups (for….reasons?).

THEN, none of this factoring down was applied to the necro numbers and was just arbitrarily decreed to be 14k in 5 man groups, because some dude once burst for 14k in a group (or was that 12k?). This dude apparently achieved this number in a group with time warp, but it’s not being compared or weighted to what a thief in that same group would have achieved with time warp. It’s being compared to numbers for thieves that were created by a factoring down process that uses inaccurate numbers with the percent reductions just being made up by you on the fly.

THEREFORE, making a comparison of 15-20k thief DPS to 14k DPS makes it look like power necros do competitive DPS to a thief, when they aren’t even in the same ballpark. (A 7%-40% range of thief damage over necro damage)

Because using the numbers from reddit from unrealistic buffs, if I am doing 35k DPS and you are doing 20k, then I am actually doing 75% more.

If we put us both in the same 5 man party, where we are both sharing the benefits of the same party boons and vulnerability stacks, I am still going to do 75% more DPS (with some variation) than you.

That variation isn’t going to be like the 7%-40% range you just made up on the fly.

To make it even worse, false comparisons of the pros and cons of each class are included.

Necro’s AoE power is cited, but yet with no mention of the fact that thiefs are achieving this DPS with just staff auto attacks (which all hit cleave to hit 3 targets).

Well of Suffering is mentioned, but is not compared to Vault, which is a 5 man AoE staff skill with a weaker coefficient, but no cooldown.

AoE blinds are mentioned, but with no mention of thief AoE blinds in the form of Dust Strike and Black Powder, both also which have no cooldown.

On top of that, unrealistic scenarios that favor necros are brought up, such as thieves being in down state all the time while necros are not. That’s even close to reality, at least, not my reality. Being pretty good at my class and being able to leverage all the blinds, evades and dodges in daredevil, most of my DPS loss comes from reviving other players in down state (including necros a fair portion of the time). You are basically playing on the stereotype of thiefs being pure glass cannons with no defense, which is far, far from the truth when it comes to daredevils.

Finally, the issue of alacrity is moot, because alacrity isn’t enough to cover a 75% difference in DPS. They also posted the numbers where everyone had 100% alacrity along side the numbers where they did not and thieves were still in the 2nd best slot. The fact that we still achieve such high numbers without needing alacrity is a pro for thieves, not a con.

At the end of the day, I should not be doing that much more damage than you with my rotation when we bring the same thing in terms of utility (break bar damage, AoE, vulnerability, blinds). Power necros need to be buffed by Anet. Even a 75% difference over a 200% difference is still unacceptable.

But that won’t ever happen if people cloud the issue by arguing with, being straight with you, bullkitten numbers and weak arguments that just serve to try and make power necros look more powerful than they are at the moment.

I don’t see the need of that. Power necro is in decent place in dungeon and probably the easiest build in game for HoT. Every classes have builds that isn’t perfect. Condi war is worse. Condi guard is worse. Yes, in utopia, everything is balanced and nice. But this isn’t. We have a viable build for raid and another viable build for dungeon/open world. Yes, build changing sucks in this game but it is what it is.

Afya.5842:

I don’t see the need of that. Power necro is in decent place in dungeon and probably the easiest build in game for HoT. Every classes have builds that isn’t perfect. Condi war is worse. Condi guard is worse. Yes, in utopia, everything is balanced and nice. But this isn’t. We have a viable build for raid and another viable build for dungeon/open world. Yes, build changing sucks in this game but it is what it is.

Wrong. Power necro has too much survi and too little dps. (i can maintain 100% hp in full zerk in fractals 80+, that is not that much helpful even for rezzing (infusing terrror has longer cd now so we cant interrupt fractal avengers so often)
Condi guard is worse, condi war is worse. Exception is, Warr has a viable ps build for EVERY aspect of the game, same thing for hammer guardian, AND they bring so much group support (banners, might, aegis, protection, reflect etc.) necro cant even compete with them (because that weakness, capped vulnerability and pulling condi’s from allies – not included on any build anyway – is sooo helpfull)
And just to be clear, condi on necro isnt so good. Its a broken mechanic, just like it was in case of burnzerker’s fire fields. Keep your horrors from elite alive for massive bleed stack. I wouldnt be suprised if anet finally made them disappear after a certain amount of time like in case of shambling horrors.
Need more proof how bad we are atm ? We need HoT specific gear (viper) to have 1- just ONE build viable for anything group related, while let’s say engi can pretty much do the same in sinister.
Now when deathly chill was changed our class will fall in ranks even more, not mentioning the loss of one of the biggest “flavors” of the reaper (next time you will remove terror because its unfair in pvp or some other bull, while engineer’s putting 10 condi’s at once every few seconds is legit and balanced).

OanSur.4590:

We need HoT specific gear (viper) to have 1- just ONE build viable for anything group related

Disregarding the fact that getting ascended Vipers is really easy to get since all you need is the insignias and inscriptions for the MF, as much as I think Power Nec needs to be buffed I wouldn’t call it unviable. It’s just not optimal. My group was among the first dozen or so to clear the first raid back when it came and I was on Power Nec for that. That’s something at least.

OanSur.4590:

Now when deathly chill was changed our class will fall in ranks even more

Oh come now. Deathly Chill nerf affected PvP because you lost the instant and really reliable damage from it. It was more or less always ticking for a decent amount despite players dodging around and kiting. This ain’t an issue in PvE. At worst in an optimal setting you lost about 800~ dps, you lose a lot more than that just by screwing up your rotation.

I was super surprised when i tested zerk reaper for the first time,yesterday in PvE lobby testing zone.

With all numbers going on-on my screen,i thought my dps is epic,and i was all proud and chin up,until i ran test.

When i saw 6 k dps without buffs,and 7 k with 25 might stack,i was disappointed and sad actually.

Cant wait to get condi gear,to test it myself.Missing some s2 story achi jewels,but ill get there.

Now,in my opinion,i think zerk is more useful for trash and fast dying bosses,because until you develop damage with condi,boss is on low hp,and even then,if you miss click spell,you need to do full rotation again,so 25-40 k dmg has no point unless high end fractals.Not even talking about dungeons,where people can even solo bosses,40 k dmg,condi dmg is useless.

For those meta events,where mobs dying before you even do 1 k dmg,condi is useless as well.Only place where condi is useful are 50 + lvl fractals and raids.

MadRabbit.3179:

No worries man, just tear it apart
Sorry for using too old numbers. 20/35k is pretty low, especially since one is built for autoatacks…

I havent done any fractals in a while and i just cant be bothered with that content anymore. Id just ask if the LFG players got better, i mean the whole pool of random 100ppl.

If you get 25might/vuln always
100% dps uptime on the few ranged parts
nobody being a real scrub and dying often
If you wait less than 5min on lfg

So from here its personal opinions how often that hapens on the low end. Power necro is just great training wheels for the lowerst of clickers to actually do a lot.
IMO fractals and dungeons are/were easy enough and having lower but safer dps didnt extend the overall thing by much since a lot is still running around, as much as a wipe or extra LFG wait times did.
I repeat, this is only my opinion, for the low end when you must take a person from lfg. Not a guild speed or god forbid record run and raids also have no benefit from safety as theyre mostly wipe or nothing.

They just need to trim away the aftercasts on greatsword and buff the power coefficients of our greatsword skills and reaper shroud #1.

Quite honestly, well of suffering should be a 15 sec base cd, the other wells should not exceed 25 sec cd’s.

Alternatively, they can buff minions to be meaningful DPS increase utilities with increased power scaling coefficients.

Shouts will continue to be worthless garbage until they do more than just apply short duration debuffs that any mob with a breakbar is immune to.

Reaper traits need damage modifiers and offensive increases. Shivers of Dread is absolutely worthless, as are the adept and grandmaster tiers for PvE.

It sucks not being able to use greatsword in PvP/WvW.

It’s just too slow and cumbersome – now that they have nerfed chill, perhaps they could speed this up to be more in line with the Guardian greatsword.

Avigrus.2871:

It sucks not being able to use greatsword in PvP/WvW.

It’s just too slow and cumbersome – now that they have nerfed chill, perhaps they could speed this up to be more in line with the Guardian greatsword.

You can’t even use greatsword in PvE in HoT because unlike a thief’s 7k backstab, a HoT champ will wreck you for 15k+ damage while you’re mid-animation with greatsword.

They made a melee specialization for necro on one of the most melee-unfriendly expansion content.

And the worst part is that there’s no payoff for the risk given that condi necro with scepter auto spam does way more DPS than a power necro at melee.

Sorry to necro this thread, but I had a weird feeling and i re-read the first post – which is what trigered me in the first place.

1) the OP post is claiming that in raid like buffed scenarios – a power necro does much less damage than condi.

2) it is because of raid like scenarios – that you should be kicked from a fractal/dungeon

My main point
Dungeon/Fractal have different mechanics. Theyre filled with constant low hp trash mobs and even bosses die fast.
*That makes power instant dmg easier to land and condi dmg doesnt always ramp up fast enough. *

The dps i got was 10k ish for both, without quickness or horrors and with 2x banners only. Aka 15k with quickness, and them some more party buffs and about +5k for each set of horros to get over twenties.

But in a dungeon, if u dont have mesmer, you will kill a boss in 15s instead of 10s.. And then u walk 2min till next 15s boss agai….

So my claim is, in dungeon/fractals dps is often so out of roof its irrelevant. What matter is players dodging and not dying and invul/reflect/teleport skip mechaincs to move faster.

Again, this i claim to be true for all the faceroll dungeons and at least lower half of fractals.

You wouldn’t really take a power necro into dungeons in the first place due to rather bad mobility and still low damage + basically no utility only a nec can bring. Might as well get another class which can do something special. For fracs it’s the same.
I mean sure, you can run a power necro there, just like you can run one in raids and still clear just fine, doesn’t mean it needs no buffs because it surely does; not even that much dps-wise, but in terms of “what makes a power necro actually desireable over other classes?”, a.k.a. good buffs only a necro can bring (rip the +150 Ferocity buff dream)

Power Necro always brings Blood Magic to dungeons, and thus Vapiric Presence. Now this isn’t great for your “1337 zerk-meta only” runs— which by the way you are automatically excluded from anyways. However, this skill is great for the average pug, adding significant damage and noticible sustain. On top of that, dropping a well of blood when a player is downed is invaluable for the average pug.

Have you brought a power Reaper running Dagger/Focus + Greatsword to dungeons? Damage is fine, and utility is still there. Protection is spammed when needed, vuln stacks are maintained (and yes this can be an issue), and blinds are pulsed often.

Besides, current power creep means you can bring any elite spec and face roll dungeons. And anyone that doesn’t want a Necro with blood magic against Mai Trin or Jade Maw probably doesn’t know what’s up with that siphon…

Zenith.7301:

Julius Seizure.4985:

It’s pretty sad that even after an entire class revamp and specialization focusing on a Power Weapon (Greatsword) that Power Necro is still bad.

I am salty to, be honest, because I main a Power Necro and a Condi Berserker. Guess what? Can’t raid with either.

Because the revamp was PVP revamp. Useless PvP shouts that are garbage in PvE.

Useless PvP chill/fear traits that are useless in PvE.

Useless reaper shroud that already does less DPS than greatsword autochain, which is already mediocre to begin with.

Hideously long aftercasts and cast times to every greatsword skill and no damage compensation to boot.

When Robert Gee designs classes, much like with the chrono, he makes their traits and abilities with PvP in mind and PvE is an afterthought.

well he make the reaper but the “balance team” nerf us hard and give us 1 bleed in return lol

The way I always figure is power necro has intentionally low-ish dps just due to the nature of power weapons usually having better LF gen.. and giving necro more survival.
Necromancer as a class seems far more chill than say thief for the average player… you just don’t die. Technically two health bars and usually more hp than the average thief even without investing into vit.
Don’t get me wrong, condi necro has a butt ton of survivability too … but last I checked, power weapons just have more. The dagger 2 with blood magic is essentially a shorter cooldown second heal skill.
I’m pretty sure power necro was designed to be selfish/self sufficient and so won’t offer much to group play.

Of course I could be wrong. I have nothing to back this up other than my own guesswork and what I’ve personally seen.

Im in a way saying that condi necro is equally bad, probalby worse.

So necro should not be allowed to dungeon/fractal at all.

kapa123

Julius Seizure.4985:

Power Necro always brings Blood Magic to dungeons, and thus Vapiric Presence. Now this isn’t great for your “1337 zerk-meta only” runs— which by the way you are automatically excluded from anyways. However, this skill is great for the average pug, adding significant damage and noticible sustain. On top of that, dropping a well of blood when a player is downed is invaluable for the average pug.

Have you brought a power Reaper running Dagger/Focus + Greatsword to dungeons? Damage is fine, and utility is still there. Protection is spammed when needed, vuln stacks are maintained (and yes this can be an issue), and blinds are pulsed often.

Besides, current power creep means you can bring any elite spec and face roll dungeons. And anyone that doesn’t want a Necro with blood magic against Mai Trin or Jade Maw probably doesn’t know what’s up with that siphon…

The problem here is, again, not that necro is incapable of doing anything, but they are not exactly bringing much to a decent party which another class couldn’t do better.
If you balance the game around “the average pug”, then rip balance as the average pug doesn’t know what the dodge key is for and prefers to stay at range with “special snowflake”-builds, which wouldn’t even be that much of a problem (since it’s pugging after all) if those builds at least had decent synergies within themselves/with other partymembers, but more often than not they’re lacking them and are simply wildly thrown together.
Oh and, they fixed most siphon-based “exploits” and while having some bonus sustain is nice to have, it really isn’t a major thing imo.

As a matter of fact, I main a power reaper despite everything and I solo dungeons/fractals with that setup from time to time still, even run it in groups every now and then, but there’s so much better options as it stands.

Greatsword and shouts feel, to me, like they were designed for PvE. Greatsword is a slow, melee, AoE weapon and shouts seem like they are all about sustain, not dps. Reaper traits also work well enough in PvE and some are only good in open world events. It is not as if BB is less useful in PvE.

Without shroud and rise, would Reaper be any good in PvP?

Anchoku.8142:

shouts feel, to me, like they were designed for PvE?

u wot lad?

Gosh after reading this, I feel so much depressed by the state of necro. Does anyone feel necro is the least polished class?

If only necro could bring something unique for pve like dps buff aura/skill instead of the stupid vampiric aura. Necro has been bad for pve for a long time. I wish I could trade the sustain of necro for dps buff.

maybe if you wait another 3 years, the next elite spec brings a broken gm trait again that makes power nec viable for 1 week before they turn it into something utterly useless.

What is funny is that people with threads like this don’t understand how the game and the classes in it are developed. Devs aren’t sitting around going “Oh noes, power necros not getting enough raid time!, buffs inc”.

No matter how badly you want power necros to be ‘viable’ for instanced content, it’s simply not a compelling argument in the view of the devs to do anything about it.

Not sure what you did wrong on your power necro spec but a berserker power necro build still does more AoE spike damage than any other necromancer build, easily, hands down, no discussion behind it.

It is extremely viable in pve and wvw. The only thing that keeps it out of spvp meta is that (A) wells are easy to dodge and (B) it doesn’t benefit so much boon corrupt, condi bouncing or minion play to soak cleaves.

If you insist on running it in spvp, try this:

• blood/soul reaping/reaper – make sure to take trait that does protection on well use.
• AXE/warhorn – you’ll need the mid range capabilities. Dagger doesn’t work anymore. Air & Blood.
• Staff on swap of course. Air & Leeching.
• Consume Conditions/Both DPS Wells/Spectral Armor/Chilled To The Bone.
• Berserker/Pack

If you try to get bunkier as a power well, your gains in defense are small compared to the loss in DPS. It isn’t worth it. To make it work, it needs absolute raw DPS pressure. Run Berserker/Pack.

May I refer you to:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/44o33x/zerker_necro_viable_30k_dps_sabetha_video/

With attached video:

And another who claims to be doing 27k DPS as a Greatsword Reaper Necromancer:

I am personally new to the game, so I don’t have much credentials to speak off. With my main as a Necromancer, I am currently trying to figure out myself whether to play a Viper-Condi Necro or a Power Necro. So far, I have seen videos with damage output that demonstrate both as being viable, with some advocating for the former and some advocating for the latter.

You made the assertion that the Power Necro is not viable for raid. To do so, you relied on this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

If you check the source, the video for the Condi Necro is here:

NOTE: For those who don’t want to check the videos themselves, they basically show the DPS rotation by a Power Necro Build managing to hit massive amount of DPS, once in a raid setting (i.e. against Sabetha) and once against a dummy robot. The average DPS shown seems to be around 27k to 30k, which is extremely, extremely competitive.

It seems like the Power Necro actually deals significantly more damage. Is there something wrong with the Power Necro videos? Are they lying or doing something wrongly/differently? Because I have spoken with veterans who play Necromancers as their mains for years, and a few have mentioned that a Power Necro is actually capable of more DPS and survivability than a Condi Necro.

It would be great if you could shed light on this, since I myself am trying to figure out between the two and constantly oscillating between preferring Condi or Power.