(edited by leman.7682)
Making Warhorn even more cool
I like locust swarm and according to the devs, we necros don’t need no boons from the design perspective heh. I currently use warhorn in sPVP with banshees wail and a 15% stun duration sigil for 4 second aoe daze which is really nice. I hear that locust swarm used to siphon health in beta or something, I have no idea how much it was but it would be nice to have some good life siphoning on it. There’s also this thing where locust swarm gives you swiftness and locust signet increases your movement speed and heals you upon the activation. Seeing as how both have the word locust in them would be nice for the swarm to heal us, underwater shrimps heal us and that’s a similar ability.
Our warhorn is actually zero compared to the other 2 proffesions that can use a horn.
Warrior horn:
“Cure chill,cripple,immobilize and give 10s swiftness for you any any ally in 1200 range” 20s cd
“Vigor for you and your allies(10s),weakness for enemies(6s)” 600 radious,blast finisher,20s cd
Ranger horn
4th skill, single target burst,900 range,25s cd
5th skill "grant fury might and swiftness(15s) to you and your allies(600 range) 35s cd
What do we get for the horn? One slow casting daze(2s) on a 30s cd and a slow casting self swiftness skill that adds a bit lifeforce(only useful in certain situations) and a cripple to enemies in melee range. I won’t even mention the “damage” .
Our horn is pretty selfish, and it is still not very good for a selfish weapon(no damage, easily avoided daze on long cd and a bad hunting skill)
Give horn some love.
Officer of Spartians GR[SPGR]
Gandara EU
Horn is just for swiftness and daze. It was a critical tool in wvw before locust signet was buffed from 10% to 25% but now it seems less important. I cannot remember the last time I ran dagger/war horn. I am sure it still is good for solo roaming and spvp but, for its general utility, it is not as convincing as it was simply because other weapon and utility skill loads were buggered and have since been improved.
Hitting warhorn 5 and then going into Lich or Plague form is fairly amusing though.
Beatrice The Bloody, Norn Engineer
Gate of Madness
[snip]
Now, I have two main problems with the weapon:
- It does not provide any party-wide buffs
- Locust Swarm tends to be annoying and counter-productive.
Both Ranger and Warrior warhorns provide AoE buffs for allies. Why should Necromancer’s version be different?
[snip]
Doing this would allow us to have some useful party utility in WvW from warhorn, as well as retain the current (and very strong) utility in form of locust swarm. It would also let us decide whether we want the cripple effect, which as I mentioned before, is sometimes counter-productive (aggroing mobs you just want to run by).
I’d like to know what you’re thinking. What other ideas would you have for our warhorn?
From my experience playing a necro, this is by design. Very few of our skills (sans combo fields) provide party-wide buffs. The only ones that immediately come to mind are Deathly Invigoration, Ritual of Protection, Transfusion, and Well of Blood.
Our’s is a “selfish” profession. This doesn’t mean we can’t benefit a party, but we do so indirectly. It’s easy to see how a Guardian buffs a party when they use a skill and you witness a boon icon pop up on your character.
For Necromancers, it’s more subtle. I “buff” my party by aggroing a boss with my high toughness, taking pressure off my party members in a dungeon. I help my server by outlasting in a fight in WvWvW until reinforcements arrive to wipe the invaders. I hold an opposing team’s focus on a single point in sPvP while the rest of my team caps the other points. To accomplish this requires a skill set that is more self-focused than party-focused. Thus the emphasis on skills and traits which predominantly benefit the Necromancer alone; at least, ostensibly.
Consequently, I’m happy with the current warhorn skills. As a blood necro, it’s a natural compliment to the dagger for locking down opponents. Daze with Wail of Doom. Immobilize with Dark Pact while they’re dazed. Locust Swarm to close the gap, grant me swiftness while crippling my opponent, give me Life Force with each pulse that hits that opponent, and damage with each pulse (the amount of damage isn’t the important point; it’s the opportunity to deal a critical hit – triggering Vampiric Precision – that’s key).
I do agree that Locust Swarm is terrible as an open-field speed buff. I don’t think that was ever it’s intended purpose, though. It’s meant as an offensive melee combat skill; not an out-of-combat swiftness boon. For open-field running in WvWvW, use Signet of the Locust, instead (then swap to a more offensive utility skill as you approach a fight, if you prefer). Despite the Necromancer’s reputation as one of the slowest professions in combat, Signet of the Locust gives us respectable cross-country speed.
[snip]
What do we get for the horn? One slow casting daze(2s) on a 30s cd and a slow casting self swiftness skill that adds a bit lifeforce(only useful in certain situations) and a cripple to enemies in melee range. I won’t even mention the “damage” .
Our horn is pretty selfish, and it is still not very good for a selfish weapon(no damage, easily avoided daze on long cd and a bad hunting skill)
Give horn some love.
To the best of my knowledge, Wail of Doom is a 1/2 second cast.
As mentioned above, Necromancy is a “selfish” profession. The warhorn’s “selfish” skills are in keeping with that spirit. That said, I agree warhorn could use a little love. A reduction in the cooldowns to 20 or 25 seconds would be welcome along with a reduction in the cast time of Locust Swarm from 1 second to either 1/2 second or even 1/4 second. It is – among other things – a swiftness skill; it would be nice to be able to cast it swiftly, as well. I believe the devs mentioned in the SotG video that they were taking a look at Necromancer cast times. Maybe there’s hope of seeing some changes to warhorn in this regard.
I believe they said cast times on necro CC skills and then mentioned minions specifically.
+1 for Kraag. He has the right of it. Necro party support is in condition management, mostly on the opponents. Necro’s were not intended for party heals or boons and what there is are just under-powered tokens of that. WoB is weak for everyone but the Necromancer and Life Transfer is generally patheti-sad.
I have been trying to use warhorn now in conjunction with banshees wail/sigil of para while running a terror build and conditions…. it is strange to say the least trying to get used to the warhorn in place of the dagger in the offhand.
It seems to be an okay trade off. It gives a little better life force generation in a build that has almost none, the 4 second daze is very nice if it hits, though it seems to be so much less effective than fear. I am not quite yet used to the pattern of what the cone covers.
I have started using sigil of generosity on the sceptor, and now I can use blood is power, without concerning myself about the self bleed (as it will transfer in a few seconds).
I will keep trying to make it work… At least in WvW if I was used to it, I think it could be worth while.
I always felt it would be neat if locust swarm was a toggled ability and used lifeforce. swift duration stays the same when you toggle it on, but swarm would keep generated as long as lifeforce in the pool.
Oh wait.. no one wants the necromancer to have weapon abilities that use the DS bar.. because its suppose to be the gimmick.. right.. darn.
I use the offhand warhorn with Banshee’s Wail (instead of Hemo) and Spectral Mastery (for Spectral Walk). It’s giving me good results in PvP/WvW with the mobility.
I need to get better at using the horn daze to interrupt heals, but 3 seconds on daze instead of 4 seems like enough for me. I primary use the daze on top of fears and golem charge as a long CC to bleed someone out. I’m using Corruption and Earth Sigils.
Ziffy Snidehide, Zadie Hawkkin, Zannie Oakley, Zuulja
[ODIN],[NaCl] – Tarnished Coast
Our daze should be instant!
As a attrition class we should be able to interrupt heals. His would help .
The daze is good but it could do some damage for pve purposes, the locust swarm in the other hand is sometimes annoying: example in battle of khylo there are some crates that you can destroy with the trebuchet and passing by with the locusts puts you in combat lowering your speed by 50% i.e. counter productive, i use horn 5 for the swiftness, not to get slowed
As the Op said, haing the locusts on a second activation would be better and also i’d increase the damage on the locusts, the base damage is pityful, also the scepter’s burst damage is better and hits faster. As it is i would never use the warhorn in PvE and i use it in pvp just because i ned the swiftness to get fast to the points.
The cast time on the daze is already quick enough to interrupt heals, you just need to recognize them all. The daze skill is fine as is. Would it be better with a shorter CD or lower cast? Sure, but I would be more happy with locust swarm giving swiftness to allies (giving them locust swarm as well if you had the trait would be a laugh, but sadly I doubt this would happen), as we seem to be needlessly selfish – my wvw build has zero combo finishers, one combo field, and the only way I can directly help allies is if focus 4 bounces off them for a few seconds of regen.
That’s another thing, now that I mention it, focus 4 does some half decent damage and 4 stacks of vuln for a decent duration when it hits foes, but only 3s of regen when it hits allies – it seems to me that you actually want it to not hit allies as it currently stands.