Guild Wars 2

If we get a defiance bar as one of our GM traits it would be a no-brainer for any game mode except PvE I’d think.

KaosNinja.4967:

is it too much to ask for a Necro that practices Necromancy? you know, raising the dead, minion mastery, the stuff it’s supposed to do? condis r nice, and its a niche no other class fills, but it’s not the niche i made this class to be forced into.

You do know that Necromancy is more than simply raising the dead (which by the way necromancers in gw actually dont do, they only build flesh/bone constructs)? Things like soul reaping, deathmagic etc. also fall under necromancy and those to fit the reaper rather well.

well time to bow down to interrupt mesmers

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Issues with current Necros:

1. No group support
2. slow casting
3. no mobility
4. no power based AOE
5. low DPS

Issues Solve by specialization:
1. AOE GS
2. DPS???

Well it is a start I guess… I’d rather have the support and mobility instead though…

dark path is becoming a dash and on top of having wurm and spectral walk your in fight mobility is at least better then greatsword warrior.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Zetsumei.4975:

Yeah ofc :S don’t see why trooper won’t work

Trooper runes specifically say they remove a condition from each affected ally… And if the Necromancer shouts affect no allies, then it will logically remove no conditions. They may change Trooper runes in anticipation of this elite spec, however, so who knows. I’ll try to ensure it gets asked during the live stream tomorrow.

Its a lazy tooltip it works with fear me and on my mark.

Well this certainly sounds like it will resolve the problem we had with no viable 3rd line to invest in for our power builds.

I’m eager to see the video tomorrow. From what little we’ve seen so far, it seems like our lack of stability and how vulnerable we are to blind is really going to hurt now.

Hopefully ANet thought about this and will give us at least some options to handle these things.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This seems odd to me… you want to maximize chill usage, yet this is clearly a power based build. I’ll probably pass on this, but maybe some of the shouts are useful to condition users. I’ll reserve final judgement until I see the live stream. Not even a mention of the elite skill, wonder what it does…

A little disappointed that they didn’t do more with the DS, they made it sound like they are just replacing the effects and ranges of the skills, but again I guess we will have to see what the other skills are.

I wonder if this build would be good with sinister gear…

there is no stat for chill, condi duration isnt on gear.
DS is totally different now? changing every skill in DS is about as much as something can be changed.

yes its not heavily condi based, but necro already has conditions down, condi changes should happen in the existing specs, not the one thats supposed to provide a different type of gameplay.

choucs.4507:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Issues with current Necros:

1. No group support
2. slow casting
3. no mobility
4. no power based AOE
5. low DPS

Issues Solve by specialization:
1. AOE GS
2. DPS???

Well it is a start I guess… I’d rather have the support and mobility instead though…

dark path is becoming a dash and on top of having wurm and spectral walk your in fight mobility is at least better then greatsword warrior.

Um no. Unless I missed the sarcasm this is not even close to true.

Im excited for the class. Already thinking of possible builds with the little that we know XD can’t wait to get all the info tomorrow to really play around with the traits! Even though ill probably end up making a subpar build anyways x.x but it looks like I might be able to take more advantage of Death Nova!

Also video looked great. Couldn’t just watch it once.

Slow (GS) skills , problem that necro has little to no stab, it will still be a CC fest on the necro. Ofcourse we haven’t seen alot yet….

Atherakhia.4086:

Well this certainly sounds like it will resolve the problem we had with no viable 3rd line to invest in for our power builds.

I’m eager to see the video tomorrow. From what little we’ve seen so far, it seems like our lack of stability and how vulnerable we are to blind is really going to hurt now.

Hopefully ANet thought about this and will give us at least some options to handle these things.

they will probably be the class with the defiance bar trait.

makes sense for the unstoppable force reaper they are going for.

HOLY kitten LOOK AT THAT WE GET DEATH GRIP!!!

WE DEATH KNIGHTS!!!! WOOT!!!

ronpierce.2760:

In before “Frostbite”: Chills deal additional damage over time, modified by power."

I’d use it.

I suggested this a little before Dhuumfire was first added to the game. I’m still waiting….

I’m reserving my opinion for tomorrow. I admit there is some potential.

Dark FQ.1038:

Slow (GS) skills , problem that necro has little to no stab, it will still be a CC fest on the necro. Ofcourse we haven’t seen alot yet….

I hope the Reaper gets a trait like “Gain stability when using a shout”.

Not to bash, but I’ll probably move to Revenant after what I saw.

No calls of resource management, interesting utilities (shouts ;/ ), risk-reward cast concept which just doesn’t work in PvP and Chill which is still broken on Thieves.

Might play it for some lulz or PvE/WvW still, but still Revenant looks far superior and fun with Mallyx conditions and energy management.

Havent addressed any of the core issues from what we can see. Only hope is for the damage to be higher than a staff ele. Which is kind of unlikely.

Vizardlorde.8243:

choucs.4507:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Issues with current Necros:

1. No group support
2. slow casting
3. no mobility
4. no power based AOE
5. low DPS

Issues Solve by specialization:
1. AOE GS
2. DPS???

Well it is a start I guess… I’d rather have the support and mobility instead though…

dark path is becoming a dash and on top of having wurm and spectral walk your in fight mobility is at least better then greatsword warrior.

Um no. Unless I missed the sarcasm this is not even close to true.

ehhh no, big damage on greatsword warrior is all on the mobility/evade skills, either you use the skill to do the damage, or you save it for mobility, if you used it the damage you have very little mobility, if you use it for positioning/evade then you have little damage.

on top of wurm and walk are horizontal and vertical, which is 100 times better then on ground mobility. and dark path has a really low cooldown

Depending on which game mode you look at blind might become more of a problem than low-to-no stability access. Especially since melee shroud and melee GS might make staff more of a must have, leaving no room for warhorn OH.

But yay for dovahkiin Giantdad! Really awesome. Looks like a beast!

Rym.1469:

Not to bash, but I’ll probably move to Revenant after what I saw.

No calls of resource management, interesting utilities (shouts ;/ ), risk-reward cast concept which just doesn’t work in PvP.

Might play it for some lulz or PvE/WvW still, but still Revenant looks far superior and fun with Mallyx conditions and energy management.

Necro has always been the simplest and easiest-to-use light armored class.

KaosNinja.4967:

is it too much to ask for a Necro that practices Necromancy? you know, raising the dead, minion mastery, the stuff it’s supposed to do? condis r nice, and its a niche no other class fills, but it’s not the niche i made this class to be forced into.

You should look into A different game then.

@shifu just because necros are less spammy when it comes to 234567890 doesn’t mean they are easier To play. it depends on the players skill level.

choucs.4507:

Vizardlorde.8243:

choucs.4507:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Issues with current Necros:

1. No group support
2. slow casting
3. no mobility
4. no power based AOE
5. low DPS

Issues Solve by specialization:
1. AOE GS
2. DPS???

Well it is a start I guess… I’d rather have the support and mobility instead though…

dark path is becoming a dash and on top of having wurm and spectral walk your in fight mobility is at least better then greatsword warrior.

Um no. Unless I missed the sarcasm this is not even close to true.

ehhh no, big damage on greatsword warrior is all on the mobility/evade skills, either you use the skill to do the damage, or you save it for mobility, if you used it the damage you have very little mobility, if you use it for positioning/evade then you have little damage.

Rush is the damage seriously ??? and with the low cooldown on WW its not even a choice if you have to run you pop it on cooldown and no one but a thief will be able to catch up.
lets compare 10 and 20 second cooldowns vs a skill that requires you to land a slow moving projectile while death shroud on a 15 sec cooldown, wurm and walk both take up utility slots and 45+ sec cooldown so I’m assuming you also count bulls charge. hey while we are at it let’s throw in rage signet, savage leap and charge.

Sounds cool so far. 0/0/0/6/6/6

misterdevious.6482:

Sounds cool so far. 0/0/0/6/6/6

you Mean Spite, Soul Reaping, Reapermancy?

I’m… excited. Chill was already my favorite CC, and now it helps even more. I can see why they left “Chilling Darkness” alone as a trait, because Well of Darkness is going to be pretty strong if you can start with someone in, then pull them back in with GS. No only are they blinded, but they stack more Chill so they do less damage.

I’m really curious what the numbers around this are going to be, but I’m not phased one bit by not having as much mobility as other classes. I like the idea of pulling people back into a fight as they try to flee than fleeing just so I live for some invisible KDR. I can’t laugh maniacally while I run away in admittance of defeat. I can, however, laugh maniacally as someone tries to run away and they just keep getting pulled/slowed in range of everything.

I would still like to see other changes to the class in general, but the spec looks super cool to me.

spoj.9672:

Havent addressed any of the core issues from what we can see. Only hope is for the damage to be higher than a staff ele. Which is kind of unlikely.

its probably going to hit like a truck.

Its probably not going to be the party supporter, but it will likely be one of the highest dps fighters.

anyhow, based on what i have been seeing with all these elites, and some changes to the core, i think monster behaviors are going to shake things up.
i dont think the meta will be the same regardless.

Shifu.4321:

Rym.1469:

Not to bash, but I’ll probably move to Revenant after what I saw.

No calls of resource management, interesting utilities (shouts ;/ ), risk-reward cast concept which just doesn’t work in PvP.

Might play it for some lulz or PvE/WvW still, but still Revenant looks far superior and fun with Mallyx conditions and energy management.

Necro has always been the simplest and easiest-to-use light armored class.

Not in PvP.

Hitting hard is only part of the equation though.

Having a 2.00 coefficient with a 2 second interval between attacks really isn’t going to win any dungeon runs.

This class really does have a lot of room to make up for in the DPS department. We’re pretty far behind Elementalists and Thieves. And then when you consider that this class has absolutely no utility a group wants at all? The gap between Eles and Necros should be what it is now, but in the Necros favor.

Rym.1469:

Shifu.4321:

Rym.1469:

Not to bash, but I’ll probably move to Revenant after what I saw.

No calls of resource management, interesting utilities (shouts ;/ ), risk-reward cast concept which just doesn’t work in PvP.

Might play it for some lulz or PvE/WvW still, but still Revenant looks far superior and fun with Mallyx conditions and energy management.

Necro has always been the simplest and easiest-to-use light armored class.

Not in PvP.

Well it is the easiest new player pvp light armored class power necro or minion master both rip newbies apart with ease.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Omocha.4931:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Issues with current Necros:

1. No group support
2. slow casting
3. no mobility
4. no power based AOE
5. low DPS

Issues Solve by specialization:
1. AOE GS
2. DPS???

Well it is a start I guess… I’d rather have the support and mobility instead though…

Say what now?!
Low dps?! with or without weapons?
Slow casting?! Did you consider other weapons beside staff? or you want a spam-style game, possibly with skills like Ranger’s LB skill 2 without any cd?
No group support?! ofc, if you don’t wanna offer any. Otherwise, wells that clear condi, aoe heals, and the cc’s of the necro are, if I dare say so, desireable group support. You can’t give portals and Icy Bows to all classes, hm?!
No mobility… Sure! Must give them some portals?! some shadowsteps maybe? (not that it’s a properly functioning mechanic anyway) Or precisely what?!
You have speed signet, you have a tp, you have swiftness skills, you have multiple hp pools, summons, fast attacks, strong dps, strong conditions, decent group support. I don’t know what you’re smoking, but I really want some of that stuff!

While I agree with you on most, the support that necros are lacking is offensive support. The ability to blast or provide fire fields, the ability to grant might and/or fury to allies, unique buffs like spotter, empower allies etc. Their damage is on par with everyone else they just dont bring anything to the party that someone else already has without hindering the party ( wells overwritting firefields, 2 target cleave, fear moving stuff etc)

They’ve also been near or at the bottom of power-based sustain DPS for a while now. While it’s true a Necro in Lich Form can put out more damage to a single target than AFAIK literally anything else, that is 20 seconds every 3 minutes, not enough uptime to counterbalance the low damage done even when spamming Dagger AA and/or staying in DS as much as possible. Condition damage is a bit different. Technically, they are top tier in Condition damage (though Engineers might edge all-so-slightly ahead in that regard) but condi damage isn’t viable in PvE outside of a handful of fights: too many ways your non-stacking condition can get overridden by someone else’s incidental conditions, especially in open world content when dozens of players can be attacking the same target. The Condition overhaul that is apparently coming might change that though. Plus there is the fact that, unless you count staff piercing and marks, the most targets Necromancers can reliably and consistently (as an AA or with a short cooldown) hit with any of our weapons… is 2, and that has only been true since last September.

The GS attacks may be slow, but a full set of shouts means an instant heal and an instant elite. Instant AOE that you can just dodge roll out of. Plus old DS was super slow and easy to blind/dodge/evade/CC, so it isn’t all bad.

I just hope it is effective and not just a noob killer.

I’m reserving final judgement until tomorrow. But so far so good.

Did you all see that AoE Stun that the Reaper has in the video?

He stun three monsters in place!!!

Necro doesnt have anywhere near top condi damage. Not enough burn to do that. We can get might from signet mastery. But classes like warrior and engi can stack just as much bleed or more while also maintaining perma burn and having much higher damage on all relevent skills in a condi build.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Rym.1469:

Shifu.4321:

Rym.1469:

Not to bash, but I’ll probably move to Revenant after what I saw.

No calls of resource management, interesting utilities (shouts ;/ ), risk-reward cast concept which just doesn’t work in PvP.

Might play it for some lulz or PvE/WvW still, but still Revenant looks far superior and fun with Mallyx conditions and energy management.

Necro has always been the simplest and easiest-to-use light armored class.

Not in PvP.

Well it is the easiest new player pvp light armored class power necro or minion master both rip newbies apart with ease.

I could rip newbies with my off hand only.

When I talk about PvP, it’s about playing on competitive level.

And meta powermancer is just a terrible, lazy design spec which happens to be somehow effective because it has powerful procs. Yet shares all problems with Condition Necromancer, apart from LF generation.

Roe.3679:

The GS attacks may be slow, but a full set of shouts means an instant heal and an instant elite. Instant AOE that you can just dodge roll out of. Plus old DS was super slow and easy to blind/dodge/evade/CC, so it isn’t all bad.

I just hope it is effective and not just a noob killer.

I’m reserving final judgement until tomorrow. But so far so good.

Just as a word of caution, not all shouts are instant cast. Guard has a cast time.

The only thing it has going for it is that it looks cool. And fun for the flavour. But thats always been the only redeeming quality of necro. I was hoping for a bit of an attempt to address core issues. Guess we really do have to hope for core spec fixes and future elite specs for that.

Omocha.4931:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Issues with current Necros:

1. No group support
2. slow casting
3. no mobility
4. no power based AOE
5. low DPS

Issues Solve by specialization:
1. AOE GS
2. DPS???

Well it is a start I guess… I’d rather have the support and mobility instead though…

Say what now?!
Low dps?! with or without weapons?
Slow casting?! Did you consider other weapons beside staff? or you want a spam-style game, possibly with skills like Ranger’s LB skill 2 without any cd?
No group support?! ofc, if you don’t wanna offer any. Otherwise, wells that clear condi, aoe heals, and the cc’s of the necro are, if I dare say so, desireable group support. You can’t give portals and Icy Bows to all classes, hm?!
No mobility… Sure! Must give them some portals?! some shadowsteps maybe? (not that it’s a properly functioning mechanic anyway) Or precisely what?!
You have speed signet, you have a tp, you have swiftness skills, you have multiple hp pools, summons, fast attacks, strong dps, strong conditions, decent group support. I don’t know what you’re smoking, but I really want some of that stuff!

Sarcasm? trolling? never actually played a necro?

I’m assuming it is one of those, I can’t imagine you are serious. If by some bizarre twist you actually believe the things you typed I would suggest browsing around these forums for a more detailed analysis of the points I mentioned. A few starting points: we have a max number of target of 2, compared to 5 for every other class, power necros only do 75-80% the dps of top tier classes, and condition necros only do 30-40% the dps of top tier classes (in PvE).

My biggest concern is that Reaper will essentially be free points in PvP. Large slow attacks are easily dodged, blocked, blinded, CC’d, or interrupted in PvP. The only hope is that we get the defiance bar and that it also works on blinds. I thought I heard something about defiance and blinds, does anyone know the details or am I just imagining it?

spoj.9672:

The only thing it has going for it is that it looks cool. And fun for the flavour. But thats always been the only redeeming quality of necro. I was hoping for a bit of an attempt to address core issues. Guess we really do have to hope for core spec fixes and future elite specs for that.

Well they didn’t explain any of the sword’s 5 attacks, only told us about 1 shout, and didn’t go over any of the major traits.

I’ll be right there with you tomorrow afternoon probably, but I’m trying to remain positive until I’ve seen the overview

Roe.3679:

The GS attacks may be slow, but a full set of shouts means an instant heal and an instant elite. Instant AOE that you can just dodge roll out of. Plus old DS was super slow and easy to blind/dodge/evade/CC, so it isn’t all bad.

I just hope it is effective and not just a noob killer.

I’m reserving final judgement until tomorrow. But so far so good.

oh yeah people forgetting about the Shout Heal skill which likely will be support.

Rym.1469:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Rym.1469:

Shifu.4321:

Rym.1469:

Not to bash, but I’ll probably move to Revenant after what I saw.

No calls of resource management, interesting utilities (shouts ;/ ), risk-reward cast concept which just doesn’t work in PvP.

Might play it for some lulz or PvE/WvW still, but still Revenant looks far superior and fun with Mallyx conditions and energy management.

Necro has always been the simplest and easiest-to-use light armored class.

Not in PvP.

Well it is the easiest new player pvp light armored class power necro or minion master both rip newbies apart with ease.

I could rip newbies with my off hand only.

When I talk about PvP, it’s about playing on competitive level.

And meta powermancer is just a terrible, lazy design spec which happens to be somehow effective because it has powerful procs. Yet shares all problems with Condition Necromancer, apart from LF generation.

What I meant was if both players are equally bad/new the one playing the power necro or MM will win.

Knighthonor.4061:

Roe.3679:

The GS attacks may be slow, but a full set of shouts means an instant heal and an instant elite. Instant AOE that you can just dodge roll out of. Plus old DS was super slow and easy to blind/dodge/evade/CC, so it isn’t all bad.

I just hope it is effective and not just a noob killer.

I’m reserving final judgement until tomorrow. But so far so good.

oh yeah people forgetting about the Shout Heal skill which likely will be support.

We already have 2 support healing skills… I dont think we need a 3rd…

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Issues with current Necros:

5. low DPS

lol yeah sure, like spamming 6.5k deathly claws all over the place and your wells aren’t the best source of dps in the game.

Atherakhia.4086:

Roe.3679:

The GS attacks may be slow, but a full set of shouts means an instant heal and an instant elite. Instant AOE that you can just dodge roll out of. Plus old DS was super slow and easy to blind/dodge/evade/CC, so it isn’t all bad.

I just hope it is effective and not just a noob killer.

I’m reserving final judgement until tomorrow. But so far so good.

Just as a word of caution, not all shouts are instant cast. Guard has a cast time.

You might want to update the wiki then, because there are no cast times on shouts there. Maybe Ranger shouts have a cast time, but I’m sure that guard and warrior shouts do not.

Xillllix.3485:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Issues with current Necros:

5. low DPS

lol yeah sure, like spamming 6.5k deathly claws all over the place and your wells aren’t the best source of dps in the game.

Lava font? Ice Storm? Meteor Shower? Glyph of Storms?

Roe.3679:

Atherakhia.4086:

Roe.3679:

The GS attacks may be slow, but a full set of shouts means an instant heal and an instant elite. Instant AOE that you can just dodge roll out of. Plus old DS was super slow and easy to blind/dodge/evade/CC, so it isn’t all bad.

I just hope it is effective and not just a noob killer.

I’m reserving final judgement until tomorrow. But so far so good.

Just as a word of caution, not all shouts are instant cast. Guard has a cast time.

You might want to update the wiki then, because there are no cast times on shouts there. Maybe Ranger shouts have a cast time, but I’m sure that guard and warrior shouts do not.

He meant the ranger shout called “guard”. I admit i was confused for a second.

Knighthonor.4061:

Roe.3679:

The GS attacks may be slow, but a full set of shouts means an instant heal and an instant elite. Instant AOE that you can just dodge roll out of. Plus old DS was super slow and easy to blind/dodge/evade/CC, so it isn’t all bad.

I just hope it is effective and not just a noob killer.

I’m reserving final judgement until tomorrow. But so far so good.

oh yeah people forgetting about the Shout Heal skill which likely will be support.

The article mentioned that the shouts serve as attacks. All of them, which should include the heal. I’m guessing the heal will scale on number of enemies hit, allowing a Necro to survive longer against a group by the simple fact that it’s a group. They also say the shouts are more geared towards harming foes than bolstering allies.

Don’t expect group support/might sharing. I personally wouldn’t expect anything at the moment, because the shouts could be anything. They could steal boons from every target hit, they could taunt (giving the slow wind-up abilities a chance to land), one summons little minions (that give what, 10% LF when they die?). Possibilities are open right now.

And if GS cleaves, and shouts do even moderately good damage, their AoE power capabilities could be very high.

spoj.9672:

Xillllix.3485:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Issues with current Necros:

5. low DPS

lol yeah sure, like spamming 6.5k deathly claws all over the place and your wells aren’t the best source of dps in the game.

Lava font? Ice Storm? Meteor Shower? Glyph of Storms?

These are aoe skills that do about 33%-50% less damage per target than the necro counterpart. They also do not apply condis.

I feel like I am slowly understanding their trait changes.

Going Spite/Curses/Reaper could be a possible build, though it’s viability remains to be seen.

Bitter Chill/Chill of Death/Close to Death
Chilling Darkness/Path of Corruption/Terror

Then we’ll have Shivers of Dread and Cold Shoulder in the Minor tree. While Terror’s damage will likely be lack luster, it’ll be addition DPS on top of everything else. However I still remain skeptical of whether or not it would be worth dropping Death Perception for. :/

Roe.3679:

Atherakhia.4086:

Roe.3679:

The GS attacks may be slow, but a full set of shouts means an instant heal and an instant elite. Instant AOE that you can just dodge roll out of. Plus old DS was super slow and easy to blind/dodge/evade/CC, so it isn’t all bad.

I just hope it is effective and not just a noob killer.

I’m reserving final judgement until tomorrow. But so far so good.

Just as a word of caution, not all shouts are instant cast. Guard has a cast time.

You might want to update the wiki then, because there are no cast times on shouts there. Maybe Ranger shouts have a cast time, but I’m sure that guard and warrior shouts do not.

Meditations are all instant except for the healing skill and the elite. Just a heads up so you are not disappointed tomorrow. There are no instant heal skills in the game with the exception of the mesmer mantra if you ignore the pre cast.

Atherakhia.4086:

spoj.9672:

The only thing it has going for it is that it looks cool. And fun for the flavour. But thats always been the only redeeming quality of necro. I was hoping for a bit of an attempt to address core issues. Guess we really do have to hope for core spec fixes and future elite specs for that.

Well they didn’t explain any of the sword’s 5 attacks, only told us about 1 shout, and didn’t go over any of the major traits.

I’ll be right there with you tomorrow afternoon probably, but I’m trying to remain positive until I’ve seen the overview

Also remember with the whole new trait rework the core necro should look different then it is now. And looking at the video we can have a few ideas of what the GS skills will be. We are for sure getting a pull and I think a leap or sword spin if I saw the last animation correctly since most GS have some form of dash I’m leaning towards it.