Guild Wars 2

So I have been testing and found out that if you run full melandru runes it will take 50% of the duration off of your fear because it treats it both as a stun and a condition.
This is ridiculous, I say just make it a condition and not a stun because these runes totally negate us. I will most certainly be bringing this up in the next But of Corpse because to have such a strong counter to one of Necromancer’s main perks is absurd. I have also noticed that it is bugged a bit more and practically makes fear do nothing.

This issue needs to be addressed.

So, Melandru is this week’s rune flavor of the month? Er, favor of the week. Weak. Flav.

Well, it makes them harder to kill, but does nothing to amp up the pain they can cause. Less threatening, harder to kill. *shrug*

Lol, another kitten up on making stability/defiant work vs fear…

shrug

I’ve been maining a condition necro with Terror lately.

Can’t say I give many kittens about Melandru. Let’s be reasonable here – CB will entirely counter and quite probably kill anyone using Lyssa’s 6 run elite bonus, so I figure it’s fair enough there are rune combos we struggle with.

WyldKat.4712:

So, Melandru is this week’s rune flavor of the month?

I doubt that. You can’t counter something you don’t play against. I mean it’s not like there are so many necros around in tpvp (quite the opposite). But ye this is stupid and must be fixed.

Could you please also add a suggestion to make stability not block the damage part of terror while you’re at it as well? Funny how these terror vs anti CC issues are truly unique.

Im actually surprised by this, but not surprised in seeing the use of Melandru runes. It’s pretty much been the all around talked about rune in WvW for months by mesmers and even warriors after Dogged March trait was released for them. Hell, my warrior actually runs this set mainly. luckily in sPvP, people can’t stack food. In WvW its condition duration decrease makes fear just not happen much since it can stack up to 65% -duration, and 98% for Warriors when it comes to movement impairments like chills or cripples. Overall, condition duration decrease can be stupid strong against more than just fear.

Ok Altroll, I know you dislike me, this wasn’t an angry letter or anything like that. Just to inform. But until you become a competent player I really don’t value your opinion at all. By the looks of it you just misunderstood the purpose of the thread and took it as an opportunity to make a scene. It was just to inform, obviously not many people are running Melandru runes but it is still a bug and something the Necromancer community (being the profession with the most access to fear) should be something they are aware of. Don’t think making fear just a condition would be intelligent either now that I thought about it, but maybe just make the runes work as intended.

Impressive passive aggressiveness Gibbly. “Until you become a competent player” That’s really good. I like that.

The Runes work as intended, and they are fine. “This is ridiculous, I say just make it a condition and not a stun because these runes totally negate us.”

That’s QQ, the QQ is unnecessary when we’re about to receive a large buff. I actually use Melandru runes on many of my bunkers so I am not feared off point.

Ya and I said after it was not the best idea to make it just a condition and that just the runes should be fixed.

And I’m saying that the runes are perfectly fine. I’m against changing the entire game in favor of Necromancers, thank you very much.

I actually like the idea of making Terror a pure condition, but it’s not going to happen. I also like the idea of our Wells on a 10 second cooldown (Mind Wrack), but that also is not going to happen.

The runes by themselves are fine, comboing the runes with the food (and traits if they are available) is OP against condition builds however, of any class.

Things that don’t matter when it comes to this thread:
- Whether or not Runes of Melandru are used
- Food buffs
- Who dislikes whom personally
- How good you are at the game.

Topic of thread:
Runes of Melandru count Fear as both a condition and a stun. Should this be the case?

Fear is regarded as both a condition and a control effect. That’s why you can cleanse it as well as remove it with a stunbreaker. So technically, since the runes give you -25% condition duration and -25% stun duration, both should apply, according to the way fear currently is implemented in the game.
It is a powerful effect though, and I doubt it’s entirely intentional. Seeing as it could possibly hamper the Necromancers come-back to the sPvP metagame, definitely bring it up during the next BoC podcast.
Cool that you’re testing all of this!

That is crazy.

BadJas.5178:

Fear is regarded as both a condition and a control effect. That’s why you can cleanse it as well as remove it with a stunbreaker. So technically, since the runes give you -25% condition duration and -25% stun duration, both should apply, according to the way fear currently is implemented in the game.

You are not completely correct.
Going by what you yourself are saying the runes should reduce the duration of the CONDITION by 25% and reduce the duration of the CC effect by 25% – they shouldn’t add up. They should reduce each effect (condition and CC) by 25% thus resulting in an overall effect duration reduction of 25% since they overlap.

Bennet.2954:

You are not completely correct.
Going by what you yourself are saying the runes should reduce the duration of the CONDITION by 25% and reduce the duration of the CC effect by 25% – they shouldn’t add up. They should reduce each effect (condition and CC) by 25% thus resulting in an overall effect duration reduction of 25% since they overlap.

Yeah I thought this at first as well, but there is no disconnect between the condition and the CC. Fear is not two things in parallel, it is one thing that counts as two things. So anything that applies to conditions applies to fear, as well as anything that applies to CC.

Now that I reread the wiki page on the Runes of Melandru again, it says -10%/-15% stun duration, not control effect duration or something. Maybe stun duration shouldn’t effect fear. Control Effect duration should, I guess.

Unclear about what exactly my opinion is? Great, so am I.

Food Buffs + This = Immune to most CC+Fear. No joke.

It also makes you immune to our BLEED proc, because it makes it less then a second, therefore 0.

In fractals there are certain bosses which you can fear – they don’t run away but they do take dmg. So it seems to be like the CC and the condition parts are in fact separated.

Of course I could be wrong but “double dipping” runes just doesn’t seem right… somehow.

Wouldn’t it be funny if they are simply bugged in the way they affect fear and all our math and calculations are basically redundant?

Is that because of the way Fear and Defiant interact or are you talking about something else? Because I have used Fear on bosses with Defiant stacks, where the boss loses a stack of Defiant and the Fear lasts its full duration. Personally, I always thought of this as a “defiant is weird”-thing rather than a “fear is weird”-thing. Although honestly both are weird.

I would completely understand if this was a bug, by the way.

Daecollo.9578:

Food Buffs + This = Immune to most CC+Fear. No joke.

It also makes you immune to our BLEED proc, because it makes it less then a second, therefore 0.

That isn’t how conditions work.

Bhawb.7408:

Daecollo.9578:

Food Buffs + This = Immune to most CC+Fear. No joke.

It also makes you immune to our BLEED proc, because it makes it less then a second, therefore 0.

That isn’t how conditions work.

It is.

If I have 98% Cripple Reduction, and I have a 2 second cripple. It will lower it down to 0.04, which would round down to 0, basicly no cripple.

Daecollo.9578:

Food Buffs + This = Immune to most CC+Fear. No joke.

It also makes you immune to our BLEED proc, because it makes it less then a second, therefore 0.

Daecollo.9578:

Bhawb.7408:

That isn’t how conditions work.

It is.

If I have 98% Cripple Reduction, and I have a 2 second cripple. It will lower it down to 0.04, which would round down to 0, basicly no cripple.

For cripple, yes. But not for a bleed, which was the condition you specifically pointed out the first time.

Conditions work kind of unintuitively. The first damaging condition applied to a target sets when the damage ‘tick’ is checked. Every second after that moment in time, it will check what conditions are active on that target. Every stack of bleed, even if its total duration is less than a second, will trigger if it’s still active when that once-a-second moment passes.

People have been obsessing over this behavior since shortly after Terror was introduced, if not sooner, since it allows you to squeeze two procs of that damage without having the full +100% duration. That’s Fear, of course, but it works on bleeds too.

As a note, you’ll never get ‘extra’ procs on the damaging condition you apply, since it will be the one to set the timer (akittens exact start). Also: the exact timing for the damage proc within each second appears to reset if a target passes that proc moment without having any damaging conditions active on it.

Edit: And it may seem obvious, but this proc timing is not synchronized between targets.

Gibbly.5480:

So I have been testing and found out that if you run full melandru runes it will take 50% of the duration off of your fear because it treats it both as a stun and a condition.

Clearly a bug. Runes of Melandru are only supposed to take off 15% of conditions and stuns, so they must be in error if they’re combining to reduce Fear by 50%. Of course it’s ridiculous that they should get to double-dip like that. And I say that speaking as someone who runs them on his ranger (to avoid having to use Signet of Renewal).

Blaine Tog.8304:

Gibbly.5480:

So I have been testing and found out that if you run full melandru runes it will take 50% of the duration off of your fear because it treats it both as a stun and a condition.

Clearly a bug. Runes of Melandru are only supposed to take off 15% of conditions and stuns, so they must be in error if they’re combining to reduce Fear by 50%. Of course it’s ridiculous that they should get to double-dip like that. And I say that speaking as someone who runs them on his ranger (to avoid having to use Signet of Renewal).

The number 2 and number 4 effects also decrease condition and stun duration by 10% respectively.

roamzero.9486:

The runes by themselves are fine, comboing the runes with the food (and traits if they are available) is OP against condition builds however, of any class.

Yeah I duel time to time in WvW after winning some people comeback with combos like this. lol gg

There are no rune + food combos that totally negate direct damage builds why is there such a combo condition builds?

Xom.9264:

roamzero.9486:

The runes by themselves are fine, comboing the runes with the food (and traits if they are available) is OP against condition builds however, of any class.

Yeah I duel time to time in WvW after winning some people comeback with combos like this. lol gg

There are no rune + food combos that totally negate direct damage builds why is there such a combo condition builds?

Any perma protection build pretty much.

BadJas.5178:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Gibbly.5480:

So I have been testing and found out that if you run full melandru runes it will take 50% of the duration off of your fear because it treats it both as a stun and a condition.

Clearly a bug. Runes of Melandru are only supposed to take off 15% of conditions and stuns, so they must be in error if they’re combining to reduce Fear by 50%. Of course it’s ridiculous that they should get to double-dip like that. And I say that speaking as someone who runs them on his ranger (to avoid having to use Signet of Renewal).

The number 2 and number 4 effects also decrease condition and stun duration by 10% respectively.

I was under the impression that bonuses like that didn’t stack, that (like the increasing stat boosts) only the biggest one applied. Is this not the case with Runes of Melandru?

Andele.1306:

Xom.9264:

roamzero.9486:

The runes by themselves are fine, comboing the runes with the food (and traits if they are available) is OP against condition builds however, of any class.

Yeah I duel time to time in WvW after winning some people comeback with combos like this. lol gg

There are no rune + food combos that totally negate direct damage builds why is there such a combo condition builds?

Any perma protection build pretty much.

Protection – 33% DD reduction, takes pretty much full investment to have 100% duration

Runes + Food – >50% condition damage reduction, takes armor and a snack to have 100% duration

I would say that this is not quite the same.

It was stupid when they made Fear susceptible to stun reduction and stun breaks and it still is now. This is another perfect example as to why. It is also stupid that Necro’s have the shortest duration fears of any class at base duration when it is the only condition that is even a little bit “Necro flavored” due to our traits that are specific to this condition.

Melandru + Food = -65% Condition Duration, not 50%, that 15% is what brings things down to 0. I will tell you why.

The reason why its so much more powerful is because it does not simply decrease the base, it takes all of it and decreases it fully!

I have a 2 second cripple and 100% condition duration, now I have a 4 second cripple. However my enemy has -65% Condition Duration, that cripple is now a 1.4 cripple, which rounds down to 1 second. It takes the “FULL” and lowers it, not the “BASE”.

Condition Duration = Base Condition + X%.
- Condition Duration = Full Condition – X%.

The difference is huge.

It does not round down to 1 second. This has been posted a bunch of times, it has been explained over and over, conditions are rounded in tooltips only, a 1.3 second condition will be applied for 1.3 seconds.

Bhawb.7408:

It does not round down to 1 second. This has been posted a bunch of times, it has been explained over and over, conditions are rounded in tooltips only, a 1.3 second condition will be applied for 1.3 seconds.

Wrong, a bleed will only hurt you once every second. If you have 1.4, it will round down to 1, because the other 0.4 won’t matter because you can only bleed once a second.

That is wrong, stop trying.

Daecollo.9578:

Bhawb.7408:

It does not round down to 1 second. This has been posted a bunch of times, it has been explained over and over, conditions are rounded in tooltips only, a 1.3 second condition will be applied for 1.3 seconds.

Wrong, a bleed will only hurt you once every second. If you have 1.4, it will round down to 1, because the other 0.4 won’t matter because you can only bleed once a second.

You keep switching back and forth between cripple and bleeding, making you invulnerable to information. Kinda cool, but annoying to people who are trying to explain things to you. Also not very constructive.

A 1.4 second CRIPPLE lasts 1.4 seconds. it doesn’t tick, so it reduces movement speed by 50% for the full duration.
A 0.4 second BLEED lasts 0.4 seconds (not 0). The condition ticker timer starts ticking on an enemy when you apply it’s first condition. If that 0.4 seconds of bleed cover the 1 second mark it deals damage.
Say you apply 0.4 second bleeds every 0.7 seconds. You encounter an enemy, bleed it for 0.4 seconds. The condition timer starts. The bleed ends before 1 second is over so it doesn’t deal damage. The next bleed starts at 0.7 seconds on the condition timer and lasts until the 1.1 second mark. It deals one tick of damage.

Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Just a note to what Badjas said, the condition timer will restart whenever there is not a condition (and I believe it has to be a ticking condition), so actually it would continuously restart the timer in that situation.

However if we assumed that on the first application a 10 second bleed (or any other ticking condition) was applied, then the 0.4 bleeds could tick, when they matched up.

Ah, thanks. I didn’t know that.

Bhawb.7408:

Just a note to what Badjas said, the condition timer will restart whenever there is not a condition (and I believe it has to be a ticking condition), so actually it would continuously restart the timer in that situation.

However if we assumed that on the first application a 10 second bleed (or any other ticking condition) was applied, then the 0.4 bleeds could tick, when they matched up.

Condis have a set tick time, doesnt matter when the condi is applied in Badjas case if he managed to hit (bleed applied by necro on enemy 1 will tick at the same time as burning and bleed applied by enige on enemy 2) kinda the reason why terrors with 1% bonus condi duration cant but dont often get the second tick, if it would reset on a enemy without a tick condition each fresh terror would cause 2 ticks.

Blaine Tog.8304:

BadJas.5178:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Gibbly.5480:

So I have been testing and found out that if you run full melandru runes it will take 50% of the duration off of your fear because it treats it both as a stun and a condition.

Clearly a bug. Runes of Melandru are only supposed to take off 15% of conditions and stuns, so they must be in error if they’re combining to reduce Fear by 50%. Of course it’s ridiculous that they should get to double-dip like that. And I say that speaking as someone who runs them on his ranger (to avoid having to use Signet of Renewal).

The number 2 and number 4 effects also decrease condition and stun duration by 10% respectively.

I was under the impression that bonuses like that didn’t stack, that (like the increasing stat boosts) only the biggest one applied. Is this not the case with Runes of Melandru?

Uhh… that isn’t how either of those work. Each effect on a rune set is added to the previous effects: for instance my centaur runes add 165 power, in total.

LameFox.6349:

Uhh… that isn’t how either of those work. Each effect on a rune set is added to the previous effects: for instance my centaur runes add 165 power, in total.

Huh, I didn’t know that. Thanks!