Guild Wars 2

Vydahr.4285:

What do mean by that, exactly, Bhawb? Would a soldier minion build fit the bill?

Basically, all the things you get by going “full” MM, the standard MM builds, don’t help in PvE. Condition removal doesn’t matter in the face of almost no condis, and you don’t need to be tanky to out-last player focus, since in PvE mobs are perfectly happy to maul your minions and not you. So just go the max damage you can get with two traitlines, take d/wh + f, and death magic. Basically, the same idea as the standard build, but you need death magic and minions.

This change has bolstered the MM greatly in PvP. Thanks to minions actually:
-transferring conditions
-sticking to targets
-siphoning health
-dealing damage
Properly (literally 90% of their mechanics rely on them attacking, only the active didn’t. ) even their active skills are more reliable because they stick close enough to the enemy to hit them with it.

Now that they function properly, clerics is definitely the way to go no questions asked.

striker.3704:

Now that they function properly, clerics is definitely the way to go no questions asked.

As far as I know, cleric is a no-go for necromancer. I think siphons scale terribly with healing power. Also, vitality is a bad stat for most classes because it does not help sustain, but since necro life force and its generation scales with vitality, it actually helps better. So I think soldier is the way to go.

Cleric is THE best option by far, has been for a long time, made even more dominant in the specialization changes. It isn’t about the siphons, that is a tiny fraction of what Clerics does for you, it is for Transfusion, Life Siphon, regeneration, SoV or CC, and the large variety of other heals you can grab in the one build.

Bhawb.7408:

Cleric is THE best option by far, has been for a long time, made even more dominant in the specialization changes. It isn’t about the siphons, that is a tiny fraction of what Clerics does for you, it is for Transfusion, Life Siphon, regeneration, SoV or CC, and the large variety of other heals you can grab in the one build.

Ok, good to know. I knew siphons scaled terribly so I assumed the increase life force regen from vitality beats the increase healing from the few other skills. But it seems indeed transfusion and life siphon scale well with healing power. Thanks for the tip.

What the truck. I just found out about this. Testing must be done.

I already used mm for pvp but I’m curious about its pve abilities now

Bhawb.7408:

Cleric is THE best option by far, has been for a long time, made even more dominant in the specialization changes. It isn’t about the siphons, that is a tiny fraction of what Clerics does for you, it is for Transfusion, Life Siphon, regeneration, SoV or CC, and the large variety of other heals you can grab in the one build.

This is including dagger 2 siphon, which becomes a secondary healing skill on a 9 second cooldown (with quickening thirst).

This isn’t even including how the dynamic has changed. Now that minions function, players target them more than ever before now, and minions will aggressively get into AOEs. This makes the increased power of transfusion and your other siphons and heals all the more valuable.

Before when they afk’d a lot, I would argue you got a lot more out of unholy martyr and vitality for all the increased life force generation and death shroud health. Minions were largely ignored as targets and would often never be in the line of fire, thus making and aoe heals rather pointless on them.

Bhawb.7408:

Cleric is THE best option by far, has been for a long time, made even more dominant in the specialization changes. It isn’t about the siphons, that is a tiny fraction of what Clerics does for you, it is for Transfusion, Life Siphon, regeneration, SoV or CC, and the large variety of other heals you can grab in the one build.

Can you link your build for this? I’ve never played MM, but it sounds fun.

I just wish we had better jagged horror access, I still remember using rise as a Condimancer and wracking up the bleeds. Ohhh that was so much fun!

Holy Kitten. That’s Kitten, with a capital K. Been playing nothing but a MM necro ever since got the kitten game (shortly after release). And just when I am moving to a new apparment and have yet no internet there…

However, now I would like to point to an idea that I have been thinking about for the longest time now. Now that minions are reliable (confirmation needed), it changes the posiotion of the Necromancer quite a bit? I mean, the necro was pretty much mandatory damage dealer in 50% of the cases when minions were on a coffee break, right? So now, we can realy on minion damage more. That leads necro to more of a support role that damage role in my mind. Therefore Cleric gear, staff and AXE come to question. For me, axe has always been an interesting weapon. It has a synergy with power build, but it lacks the actual damage. However, it does provide vulnerability. Slowly but surely. So, I would like to ask what does the community think of a vulnerability/healing based build? Where the necro’s role is to support your minions fully (especially when you can now rely of steady minion damage). This would be very optimal for PvE, naturally.

So now necromancers learned to summon minions with brains? Yo u silly necros, why didn’t you do it from the beginning

Bhawb.7408:

Yeah I wouldn’t wait too much, moved back to my room for university, and the internet here is complete garbage. Tried to play a game of League yesterday and would spike from 100-300 ping constantly.

I find this amusing as I don’t believe I have ever played an online game below 200 ping. Yay for Australian internet being behind the rest of the world.

Duleshna.7430:

So now, we can realy on minion damage more. That leads necro to more of a support role that damage role in my mind. Therefore Cleric gear, staff and AXE come to question.

I was actually thinking about something of the type, using axe-focus/staff. The one thing that cele signet is still better at is providing boon hate to help the team. With the lesser dependence on damage (and the hinted future improvement on the weapons), we may be able to leave dagger and warhorn and do more than just bunkering a point.

for example:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-38cZ;1kH-D0v3oI-K0;9;4689;0058036038;9;1Uwl6Uwl63t

Does nobody use Battle Ping/PingZapper/WTFast? Keep reading about people with high ping. I have Pingzapper and it works great for me since in FFXIV I play a ninja and you have to perform different orders of 0.5 second skills withing 2.5 second GCD to not clip your DPS, so lag/ping is of big importance there.

Try it out, it helps a lot. I even got a Pingzapper referral so I got their paid VPN service for just $4 for two months.

Now for the bad news….

All damage modifiers were based on crappy AI mechanics of minions. Now that Minion Master necro’s can actually do damage now will result in future nerfs.

So…

Now Rat Reaper might become actually usefull? Nice.

Bhawb.7408:

Cleric is THE best option by far, has been for a long time, made even more dominant in the specialization changes. It isn’t about the siphons, that is a tiny fraction of what Clerics does for you, it is for Transfusion, Life Siphon, regeneration, SoV or CC, and the large variety of other heals you can grab in the one build.

Could you please post a build for this, I would be interested in trying a MM now that they seem to be fixed. Thanks.

Velimere.7685:

Can you link your build for this? I’ve never played MM, but it sounds fun.

This is the base of all PvP/WvW MM builds. There are other MM builds you can run, but they’re worse. Then you have the Soul Reaping and Spite variants, which are the two main build types.

From there, decide if you want staff or not, if you’re SR pick up Soul Marks if you have staff, if not using staff use Axe/Dagger
If you are Spite choose if you are using SoV/Blood Bond (highly recommended) if so pick up the signet trait, otherwise grab Spiteful Spirit
Pick up the traits you want from Blood Magic, the bottom 2 in Adept and all 3 in Master are viable
Finally grab runes, there are a ton you can use but in my opinion Pack is the best all around, with the large swiftness boost being a big help paired with warhorn and Banshee’s Wail and a good minion damage/anti kite boost, and sigils, again lots you can choose by my favorite are leeching/renewal

At the end, the build should look something like mine.

Icetrinity.3804:

I find this amusing as I don’t believe I have ever played an online game below 200 ping. Yay for Australian internet being behind the rest of the world.

It isn’t just high ping, it is having a ping that can randomly jump from around 90 (my stable ping) to 500 in a fight, where all of a sudden I go from full HP to dead because I missed the entire combo from an enemy while I sat and did nothing because all my ability orders didn’t register due to packet loss. It means I also can’t stream because not only would the stream look choppy and crappy on my screen and stream, but I’d also probably have an awful connection in general with the packet loss.

But yeah, I’ve played with high ping before, and in GunZ there was client sided hit detection, meaning you had to lead enemies and hit them on their screen, after lag, in order to get a hit register. It sucks, I’d hate to do that all the time, but I know Aussies have a really bad internet structure on top of being ages away from everything.

Bhawb.7408:

Velimere.7685:

Can you link your build for this? I’ve never played MM, but it sounds fun.

This is the base of all PvP/WvW MM builds. There are other MM builds you can run, but they’re worse. Then you have the Soul Reaping and Spite variants, which are the two main build types.

From there, decide if you want staff or not, if you’re SR pick up Soul Marks if you have staff, if not using staff use Axe/Dagger
If you are Spite choose if you are using SoV/Blood Bond (highly recommended) if so pick up the signet trait, otherwise grab Spiteful Spirit
Pick up the traits you want from Blood Magic, the bottom 2 in Adept and all 3 in Master are viable
Finally grab runes, there are a ton you can use but in my opinion Pack is the best all around, with the large swiftness boost being a big help paired with warhorn and Banshee’s Wail and a good minion damage/anti kite boost, and sigils, again lots you can choose by my favorite are leeching/renewal

At the end, the build should look something like mine.

Icetrinity.3804:

I find this amusing as I don’t believe I have ever played an online game below 200 ping. Yay for Australian internet being behind the rest of the world.

It isn’t just high ping, it is having a ping that can randomly jump from around 90 (my stable ping) to 500 in a fight, where all of a sudden I go from full HP to dead because I missed the entire combo from an enemy while I sat and did nothing because all my ability orders didn’t register due to packet loss. It means I also can’t stream because not only would the stream look choppy and crappy on my screen and stream, but I’d also probably have an awful connection in general with the packet loss.

But yeah, I’ve played with high ping before, and in GunZ there was client sided hit detection, meaning you had to lead enemies and hit them on their screen, after lag, in order to get a hit register. It sucks, I’d hate to do that all the time, but I know Aussies have a really bad internet structure on top of being ages away from everything.

I’d have this sorta trouble when I lived on campus, I had to adjust a lot of security settings in my computer to get it to work. I’m trying to think though….there was something the IT department did for me but I can’t remember what it was…..think they opened a port? Ahhhh crud, if I remember I’ll message ya.

I tried MM with SR: minions die too fast (with flesh of the master which is crap), foot in the grave doesn’t help getting even half a transfusion (1 stack of stability is crap), minions hit like wet noodles. Their true purpose, really, is to die and trigger death nova which is, in my opinion, the best minion trait, because I find shrouded removal (adept) better than necromantic corruption. I feel that base stats of minions aren’t high enough to begin with.

The only positive point is that eles don’t like the amount of poison it generates and disengage pretty early. So, in my short and lacky experience with MM, rats + death nova are the only interesting things.

Also, flesh golem doesn’t feel like an ulti at all: it dies way too fast. Being a melee that eat 6/9 stacks of burns on each ring of fire certainly doesnt help.

Flesh golem dies so fast now. Maybe the stupid AI wasnt so stupid after all..

Knighthonor.4061:

Flesh golem dies so fast now. Maybe the stupid AI wasnt so stupid after all..

Before patch:
“I’m not touching that kitten!” (World leading AI, thinks for itself.)

Post patch:
“Duhhh, d’okay, I go hit that thingy, no problem boss!” (Simple AI, easy to kill.)

We’ve been NERFED! :P

I feel that lich does more for a minion master than flesh golem: enter lich, pop 4 jagged horrors for massive death nova, leave lich.

That’s how terrible these elite skills are…

But you know necromancers, right ? Vampires born with a silver spoon in their mouth. That’s why a plague nerf might work best: put it on the same level as lich and fleshy, like the CC nerf that made other crappy heals more desirable. #Ihavefaith

Eheh… Time to dust off good ol’ Moa.

TheLastNobody.8319:

I’d have this sorta trouble when I lived on campus, I had to adjust a lot of security settings in my computer to get it to work. I’m trying to think though….there was something the IT department did for me but I can’t remember what it was…..think they opened a port? Ahhhh crud, if I remember I’ll message ya.

Off-campus, its a 6 person shared house, so the problem is my roommates can fill up the bandwidth. I just play on campus, but I can’t stream this way.

Ara.4569:

I feel that lich does more for a minion master than flesh golem: enter lich, pop 4 jagged horrors for massive death nova, leave lich.

Lich is the old Rise! on just shy of 5x the CD. Remember how bad Rise! was? Well Lich is 5x worse, with a bit added on top since it kills your minions. Flesh Golem is literally half of your minion DPS, no way lich makes up for that.

Ara.4569:

I tried MM with SR: minions die too fast (with flesh of the master which is crap), foot in the grave doesn’t help getting even half a transfusion (1 stack of stability is crap), minions hit like wet noodles. Their true purpose, really, is to die and trigger death nova which is, in my opinion, the best minion trait, because I find shrouded removal (adept) better than necromantic corruption. I feel that base stats of minions aren’t high enough to begin with.

If your transfusion is getting interrupted it means you aren’t using it well. SR MM is just as capable of keeping minions alive as Spite, if not a bit more since you could have better Transfusion/Life from Death procing.

Ara.4569:

Also, flesh golem doesn’t feel like an ulti at all: it dies way too fast. Being a melee that eat 6/9 stacks of burns on each ring of fire certainly doesnt help.

If the 19k HP heavy armor Flesh Golem is dying through your 10k burst healing and 3s protection, that’s flat on you. Transfusion is around 6.3k, Life from Death is around 2.5k, renewal sigil is 900, and that’s if you are above 75% and aren’t getting the bonus healing power. More than enough to heal with.

I don’t see MM becoming meta anytime soon.

It’s a powerful dueling/roaming build that will get cried about until it’s nerfed much like spirit ranger.

In this game people cry for ego balancing (1v1’s), not for team fight balance.

ronpierce.2760:

Knighthonor.4061:

Flesh golem dies so fast now. Maybe the stupid AI wasnt so stupid after all..

Before patch:
“I’m not touching that kitten!” (World leading AI, thinks for itself.)

Post patch:
“Duhhh, d’okay, I go hit that thingy, no problem boss!” (Simple AI, easy to kill.)

We’ve been NERFED! :P

Die in a putrid explosion, nyahahaaaaa!

Bhawb.7408:

Velimere.7685:

Can you link your build for this? I’ve never played MM, but it sounds fun.

This is the base of all PvP/WvW MM builds. There are other MM builds you can run, but they’re worse. Then you have the Soul Reaping and Spite variants, which are the two main build types.

From there, decide if you want staff or not, if you’re SR pick up Soul Marks if you have staff, if not using staff use Axe/Dagger
If you are Spite choose if you are using SoV/Blood Bond (highly recommended) if so pick up the signet trait, otherwise grab Spiteful Spirit
Pick up the traits you want from Blood Magic, the bottom 2 in Adept and all 3 in Master are viable
Finally grab runes, there are a ton you can use but in my opinion Pack is the best all around, with the large swiftness boost being a big help paired with warhorn and Banshee’s Wail and a good minion damage/anti kite boost, and sigils, again lots you can choose by my favorite are leeching/renewal

At the end, the build should look something like mine.

Thank you very much. I’ll hopefully get around to testing this tonight.

Ara.4569:

I don’t see MM becoming meta anytime soon.

MM will never be meta as long as MOA remains the hardest counter known to man (and so kittening common holy kitten. Literally every single engineer runs it just about, and at least half the mesmers if not more run signet of humility too). I’ve never seen a single skill counter an entire build in any videogame as hard as moa counters minion master.

It doesn’t help that both moa morphs can be done out of stealth and finish their cast animation before it hits, thus leading you to getting moa’d without any counter play in the game existing.