Minions with AGRESSIVE/Defensive stances
ok the best solution i would think would be to make availeble 2 3 skills for minions that make there mood’ either Agressive or defensive with one atacking the 1 st enemy on sight and one atacking your target as it is now
It would SOLVE ALOT OF trouble MOSTLY IN PVP and it would make minion master a viable built and much much easierConsider mm clones they atack the 1 st enemy they see why couldn’t necro pets be the same ?
It would add more buttons and it won’t happen. Let’s clear this up Ranger Pets, and Mesmer Clones are class definining skills. Minions are utility skills designed solely as a method of improving your own survival or damage. Clear up your misperception and you will realize they aren’t supposed to be Clones or Pets. We have deathshroud, they have Pet and shatter.
ok the best solution i would think would be to make availeble 2 3 skills for minions that make there mood’ either Agressive or defensive with one atacking the 1 st enemy on sight and one atacking your target as it is now
It would SOLVE ALOT OF trouble MOSTLY IN PVP and it would make minion master a viable built and much much easierConsider mm clones they atack the 1 st enemy they see why couldn’t necro pets be the same ?
It would add more buttons and it won’t happen. Let’s clear this up Ranger Pets, and Mesmer Clones are class definining skills. Minions are utility skills designed solely as a method of improving your own survival or damage. Clear up your misperception and you will realize they aren’t supposed to be Clones or Pets. We have deathshroud, they have Pet and shatter.
ranger pets run back and duno the mechaninc but come back rly fast with full health
mm clones die and 1 atack later there back ours die and 30 60 sec later there back (if you live that long)
as for improving our survival ?in pvp for example vs a skilled player there just a nuisance nothing more and a postponed death sentance + respawn to the nearest point ,true there usefull vs some tipes of builts of other clases but those are rare cases and far between
(edited by alex.7364)
ranger pets run back and duno the mechaninc but come back rly fast with full health
mm clones die and 1 atack later there back ours die and 30 60 sec later there back (if you live that long)
as for improving our survival ?in pvp for example vs a skilled player there just a nuisance nothing more and a postponed death sentance + respawn to the nearest point ,true there usefull vs some tipes of builts of other clases but those are rare cases and far between
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Class defining skill versus utility. Despite the little intro that Anet says, minions are not our Necro thing. We are a condition manipulation class that has the option of using our utilities for Minions.
Against a skilled player Minions can win depending on the build the player is playing and whether they are better than me. In team fights, which is where the Necro is strongest the MM is ridiculously effective. Bone Minion Explosions, Flesh Wurm boom, and Flesh Golem Charge as well as the bone fiend immobilize. Continuous damage plus continuous healing in a team fight = win.
We are not a solo class we are a team class.
When I want to solo against people. I bring a ranger, thief or elementalist. When I want to control a fight and help my team out, I bring the necro. Every single build we have is stronger in a group setting.
Class defining skill versus utility. Despite the little intro that Anet says, minions are not our Necro thing. We are a condition manipulation class that has the option of using our utilities for Minions.
Against a skilled player Minions can win depending on the build the player is playing and whether they are better than me. In team fights, which is where the Necro is strongest the MM is ridiculously effective. Bone Minion Explosions, Flesh Wurm boom, and Flesh Golem Charge as well as the bone fiend immobilize. Continuous damage plus continuous healing in a team fight = win.
We are not a solo class we are a team class.
When I want to solo against people. I bring a ranger, thief or elementalist. When I want to control a fight and help my team out, I bring the necro. Every single build we have is stronger in a group setting.
yea took me a while to realize that we shine more in team fights with conditions that trully melt away great numbers of enemys but that dosent mean you are permanently in team fights and as for minions no mater waht built u are most clases have good aoe and easely take u down or your minions witch are verry weak even with traits and the second thing is its depresing u have to switch from necro to another class just to combat some enemyes
(edited by alex.7364)
yea took me a while to realize that we shine more in team fights with conditions that trully melt away great numbers of enemys but that dosent mean you are permanently in team fights and as for minions no mater waht built u are most clases have good aoe and easely take u down or your minions witch are verry weak even with traits and the second thing is its depresing u have to switch from necro to another class just to combat some enemyes
The only classes that really wreck MM are specific builds
1) Grenade engineers
2) Shatter Mesmers
3) Trap Rangers
4) Burst Ele’s
5) Smart Epidemic spread Necro
Those builds wreck MM, The following builds we are strong against
1) BM Ranger
2) Any Guardian
3) Any thief
4) Any engineer that isn’t grenades
5) necro’s that don’t use epidemic correctly
6) Warriors (but everyone is currently good against them)
5) Bunker Guardians
Those builds wreck MM, The following builds we are strong against
1) BM Ranger
2) Any Guardian
3) Any thief
4) Any engineer that isn’t grenades
5) necro’s that don’t use epidemic correctly
6) Warriors (but everyone is currently good against them)
5) Bunker Guardians
1. true
2.not always they do have alot of stats you have to be prepared for them to turn there boons into conditions
3.just ds conditions and fear usualy is enought but stealth + heal is still a problem
4.can’t rly comment
5.that so depresing but so true i fought a lvl 60 warr in mists pvp and even with his leaps + knockbacks it was just a immobalize evade cripple game didnt even hurt me much and didnt even take much they have like no condition removal skill exept the one we have
5.same as point 2 u have to be prept for them
Just make their current AI a bit more reliable (fix whatever is glitching them out on the rare occasion), and they’ll be solid. It is already one of the single strongest builds in the game, the only ones that can beat them 1v1 are a few very select high AoE burst damage builds.
In team fights they get a bit weaker as there is going to be more AoE and a harder time hitting the target. For example a soldier MM will murder any glass build that can’t instantly kill off your minions, but those glass builds in a team fight have a better chance from allied support and presence of AoE. Like an epidemic Necro; they have no chance in a 1v1 but can really hurt me in a team fight where I can’t just single them out.
2.not always they do have alot of stats you have to be prepared for them to turn there boons into conditions
5.same as point 2 u have to be prept for them
Guardians are a cake walk for minions. I ignore their boons and just let me pets hammer away at them. Kite them around, and use boon stripping to slowly wittle them down. They don’t do anywhere close to enough damage to kill your minions, and if you time your Bone minion poison to their heal than strip and fear you can immobilize and kill them off pretty quickly.
If you run Minions you can transfer boons to conditions :P. As a minion mancer you should be running Axe/Focus or Dagger/WH and STaff or some variation of that group.
3) Any thief
Stealth bugs minion behavior like nothing else and thieves can repeatedly abuse them for easy CnD. Against a good thief minions quickly become a liability.
Dark Pact, Wail of Doom, Charge, Rigor Mortis, and Doom. If he’s still alive by the end of that then you messed up somewhere and it’s your fault you lost.
3) Any thief
Stealth bugs minion behavior like nothing else and thieves can repeatedly abuse them for easy CnD. Against a good thief minions quickly become a liability.
I faced a really good D/D thief who tried to use this bug. It’s a little overblown. Plus it only resets if they flee the scene. I killed the thief a few times before he realized it was much better if he used stealth escaped than came back and killed me just before the ooc heal hit.
Now Mesmer’s bug out Minions like crazy. Because all their phantasms can hit the minion and if the stealth hits they tehn turn and attack the phantasms.
Dark Pact, Wail of Doom, Charge, Rigor Mortis, and Doom. If he’s still alive by the end of that then you messed up somewhere and it’s your fault you lost.
Little bit overboard on the your fault part :P. Someone needs to get some more sleep.
Other than that, the abilities he stated are really strong against them, though he forgot that after doom or rigor mortis you immediately hit DS than life transfer as they will be stealthing soon, and channelled skills follow stealth.
Okay, I’ll concede that he might still be alive; but I’ll retain that if you lose the fight its your fault with an easy 10 seconds of free wailing on him. I usually axe 2 at the end also, more damage that way and I can save my DS for when he comes to burst me, Doom→life transfer.
Dark Pact, Wail of Doom, Charge, Rigor Mortis, and Doom. If he’s still alive by the end of that then you messed up somewhere and it’s your fault you lost.
I’m not seeing how that is even tangibly related to my comment. I merely pointed out that minions are not ideally used against thieves since they can use them for CnD which is a simple fact. If you’re going to go dagger and warhorn for that combo there are far better utilities than minions.
You were saying that minions become a liability, you can easily burst down a thief with the above combo, big parts of which are based on minion CC, and also using minions allows you to go full Soldier gear while retaining the burst; something you can’t do with any other utility.
You were saying that minions become a liability, you can easily burst down a thief with the above combo, big parts of which are based on minion CC, and also using minions allows you to go full Soldier gear while retaining the burst; something you can’t do with any other utility.
Indeed, I suggested that the minions would become a liability since they’d stand around dumbfounded offering the thief free CnD opportunities. How exactly is rigor mortis going to benefit you against a stealthed opponent? Even if you’ve got the thief pinned in stealth your minions aren’t going to suddenly start hitting him. You’d be whacking away at him alone with your utility slots effectively wasted.
You seem to be living in a dream world here.
You were saying that minions become a liability, you can easily burst down a thief with the above combo, big parts of which are based on minion CC, and also using minions allows you to go full Soldier gear while retaining the burst; something you can’t do with any other utility.
Indeed, I suggested that the minions would become a liability since they’d stand around dumbfounded offering the thief free CnD opportunities. How exactly is rigor mortis going to benefit you against a stealthed opponent? Even if you’ve got the thief pinned in stealth your minions aren’t going to suddenly start hitting him. You’d be whacking away at him alone with your utility slots effectively wasted.
You seem to be living in a dream world here.
And apparently you live in a world where everything else always functions perfectly except minions. I mean the fact that minions are the sole reason you lose to thieves is quite impressive. I must say that the fact that you never miss with a single corruption skill or always have people stand inside your wells, and never see a missed CD with your elites is quite impressive.
I mean the fact that every single other skill we have is perfectly viable, and all minions due 100 percent of the time is nothing but watch you die is totally a fact. Thank you for bringing to our attention that minions do nothing and every other skill we have works perfectly.
Your world is so much more fascinating.
((in case you missed the obvious. I was simply talking like every poster who posts negatively about minions and yet pointed it at every other skill we have. I did this to reflect how ridiculous you guys sound when you paint this broad stroke against myself, bhawb, or anyone else who points out that they aren’t as bad as you think they are))
And apparently you live in a world where everything else always functions perfectly except minions. I mean the fact that minions are the sole reason you lose to thieves is quite impressive. I must say that the fact that you never miss with a single corruption skill or always have people stand inside your wells, and never see a missed CD with your elites is quite impressive.
I mean the fact that every single other skill we have is perfectly viable, and all minions due 100 percent of the time is nothing but watch you die is totally a fact. Thank you for bringing to our attention that minions do nothing and every other skill we have works perfectly.
Your world is so much more fascinating.
Minions do not attack stealthed opponents. Full stop. This is not debatable, this is simply how the game is coded. Putting down a well on the other hand will effectively damage the thief even when in stealth and it’s thankfully not influenced by the laggard AI. Of course I’m assuming he is immobilized which is kind of the entire goal when using dagger and warhorn against one, yeah?
Look, I get that you two are on this constant crusade to defend the viability of minion masters and whatnot but even you have to realize that at this point it’s just kind of getting silly. But I digress.
Minions do not attack stealthed opponents. Full stop. This is not debatable, this is simply how the game is coded. Putting down a well on the other hand will effectively damage the thief even when in stealth and it’s thankfully not influenced by the laggard AI. Of course I’m assuming he is immobilized which is kind of the entire goal when using dagger and warhorn against one, yeah?
Wait, so your thief stealths but never moves making wells a great drop. Full Stop. Nope, only bad thieves stay in a location long enough for you to throw down a well. Please let me know where your stationary thieves play so that I might face them.
Look, I get that you two are on this constant crusade to defend the viability of minion masters and whatnot but even you have to realize that at this point it’s just kind of getting silly. But I digress.
I could care less about the viability of Minions in tournaments. I know their shortcomings and their positives. I don’t play Minions when I play tournaments, because they don’t fit my role on the team. Plus with the current meta favoring AOE spamming engineers berzerker minions die too quickly.
We aren’t defending viability. We have freely admitted that they lose effectiveness at certain levels. What we are defending is trumped up assumptions and ridiculous over exaggerations that stretch the truth in an attempt to blackball anyone who thinks differently.
Wait, so your thief stealths but never moves making wells a great drop. Full Stop. Nope, only bad thieves stay in a location long enough for you to throw down a well. Please let me know where your stationary thieves play so that I might face them.
Depends on if the thief is using a shortbow or not. Even so wells provide far better utility than minions incapable of dealing with stealth outside of charge and that’s assuming it actually hits. Zone control should never be underestimated and we can excel at it with the right traits and utilities.
I could care less about the viability of Minions in tournaments. I know their shortcomings and their positives. I don’t play Minions when I play tournaments, because they don’t fit my role on the team. Plus with the current meta favoring AOE spamming engineers berzerker minions die too quickly.
We aren’t defending viability. We have freely admitted that they lose effectiveness at certain levels. What we are defending is trumped up assumptions and ridiculous over exaggerations that stretch the truth in an attempt to blackball anyone who thinks differently.
What exaggerations? It’s common knowledge that thieves exploit pets for CnD and that it’s really not ideal to bring minions along when facing one. You’re just making it easier for the thief by doing that. What’s the point?
Do note that I think minion masters are capable of besting a lot of opponents. I just don’t view them as an ideal fit against thieves due to this glaring weakness.
Depends on if the thief is using a shortbow or not. Even so wells provide far better utility than minions incapable of dealing with stealth outside of charge and that’s assuming it actually hits. Zone control should never be underestimated and we can excel at it with the right traits and utilities.
Do note that I think minion masters are capable of besting a lot of opponents. I just don’t view them as an ideal fit against thieves due to this glaring weakness.
Honest question (because I don’t know thieves very well) how many thieves actually don’t run SB in tournies?
Giving necromancers some sort of control over their minions is definitely needed. Especially the Flesh Golem (which is our only decent condition build elite skill as plague is only useful for aoe blind) could use it. An elite skill that doesn’t attack or simply runs off to some other player is pretty useless. Adding some control over minions can’t really be considered a buff imo as it doesn’t increase their damage, it just makes them more reliable. I’d like my Flesh Golem to be passive with a pet attack/return button (f2, f3, f4).
Giving an experienced Necromancer full control of minions would be a mistake. When I do use minions I understand their limitations. The majority of minions are utility based, and as it has been stated all our utilities have downsides. When I am solo roaming in WvWvW I will never use pets, when I am keep defending I load up on wells and stick strictly to marks. When I am tagging along with a Zerg I am running Epidemic and such. When I am grinding I use minions. The entire point of our class is condition control. Let us see them build on that instead of minions. My only gripe about necromancer pets is they are ugly. I enjoy the way the class is played, and find it fitting that summoning a pieced together minion is a small part of the class, though I would like to see our underwater elite be something other then plague =(
Giving necromancers some sort of control over their minions is definitely needed. Especially the Flesh Golem (which is our only decent condition build elite skill as plague is only useful for aoe blind) could use it. An elite skill that doesn’t attack or simply runs off to some other player is pretty useless. Adding some control over minions can’t really be considered a buff imo as it doesn’t increase their damage, it just makes them more reliable. I’d like my Flesh Golem to be passive with a pet attack/return button (f2, f3, f4).
that the resson i started the post for example a thief enters stealth atacks u then again enters stealth and the minions instantly become usless cuz they dont atack again untill u hit them again ,and again and again if they keep using stealth thats the main problem and its a giant liability,the sin focuses on us, gives you some dmg enter s stealth heals comes out again and so on ,it makes minion built completly usless ,futher more they dont stop atacking untill u are rly FAR AWWWAAAYYY.in that time they can easely get killed and all u get is another cd
its not like a buff or increase in dmg its just a bit more controll over a built you are playing
last thing i wana make a note of is what the point of them having traits for dmg and health explosion siphone condition removal etc if all u do is heard them along to your next battle/enemy where they usualy get killed and u folowing them shortly(whats a minion master without its minions ? its dead…)
i dont want complete control over all its actions but a little more than just using atack and there skills to kill a enemy would not hurt
Just fix up the few glitches in their AI and we’re set. They aren’t supposed to be fully controllable (seriously, if you played GW1 you’d realize how nice being able to focus a target is), just make their current controls work 100% of the time.