Missing Scourge Utility Skill

Missing Scourge Utility Skill

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Posted by: Brujeria.7536

Brujeria.7536

Has been posted on reddit:

https://dd.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6tdz4v/soulbeast_and_renegade_traits/dlk09x6/

Chatcode:
[&Bo+iAAA=]

Was hoping for a nice condi skill, but 2 seconds of poison is rather underwhelming.

Barrier in the tooltip is with 155 healing power, with 0 healing power it is 1293, so scaling with healing power is 1,2389709677 ~ 1,24

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(edited by Brujeria.7536)

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Posted by: Vitali.5039

Vitali.5039

Even this skill seem so anonymous..

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

Another boon corruption skill, yeah!
Basicly, the scourge is totally useless in any PvE enviroment and if you have more than 1 in your party they will fight each other to corrupt boons and be able to do any kind of decent condition damage, fighting now also against the warrior dagger AA that corrupt boons.

The skills itself isn’t bad, inflict poison, grant a barrier and corrupt a boon; the problem is that the Poison amount and duration is really to rework because you will inflict No damage with a skill like that, the barrier amount is low and the boon corruption will never work in a PvE enviroment.

I did the demo and the monsters occasionally have a boon, but last for few seconds and they don’t spam it, making you unable to increase your dps using the enemy boons.

A bad skill, nothing more.

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Posted by: felincyriac.5981

felincyriac.5981

oh cmmon another boon-corrupt…

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

the barrier amount is low

Its got a 5 target cap so it should produce 5 bits of sand at max. Sorta like a barrier version of Fragments of Faith

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Posted by: Brujeria.7536

Brujeria.7536

All of the utilities really feel underwhelming. They just slapped a boon corrupt on all of them to make the traits work and to create some kind of connecting theme.

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Posted by: Treetoptrickster.4205

Treetoptrickster.4205

All of the utilities really feel underwhelming. They just slapped a boon corrupt on all of them to make the traits work and to create some kind of connecting theme.

Yeah not really a fan of that decision. Skills that are perfectly fine and could be stronger in other ways have to have that boon corrupt into torment and cripple on them which kinda ruins the theme of the skill, or takes from its power budget in some cases. I’m ok with the Scourge being about corrupting boons into cripple and torment, but not on everything just cuz..

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Posted by: Vitali.5039

Vitali.5039

All of the utilities really feel underwhelming. They just slapped a boon corrupt on all of them to make the traits work and to create some kind of connecting theme.

Can we call it corruption of purpose?

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

Punishmet skills have to punish you if you spam boons and that’s ok. But there’s also other ways ti punish you, other reasons.
Also, if I corrupt stability or might I want to inflict Fear or Wekness, not Tormento+Cripple.

That punishment skills are good but chained to that design that force us to don’t be able to do anything good if the enemy don’t have anything ti corrupt.
And that make this skills bad

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Posted by: Brujeria.7536

Brujeria.7536

Punishmet skills have to punish you if you spam boons and that’s ok. But there’s also other ways ti punish you, other reasons.
Also, if I corrupt stability or might I want to inflict Fear or Wekness, not Tormento+Cripple.

That punishment skills are good but chained to that design that force us to don’t be able to do anything good if the enemy don’t have anything ti corrupt.
And that make this skills bad

Yeah. if they add the boon corrupt as an extra im totally fine with it. But the skills should be somewhat interesting and strong even without the boon corrupt.

I mean the portal aside, that one is cool and most likely will be strong we get:

Swiftness for ourself or allies, 6 seconds, and we leave a trail that burns a bit.

Lifeforce lulz and might.

AOE skill with barrier and a marginal poison (most likely only for cosmetic reasons to make the “snake” work)

And our elite is basicly a 5 second pulse of slow and some boon corrupt, that, again, gives an absurdly low duration and low stack might.

I dont know man, maybe these skills would have be interesting if the game was newly released, but at the current state these seem so unbelievable boring and blunt that i dont think i will ever use any one of them, maybe i will use the portal in wvw roaming, but other than that no, thank you.

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Yo,

Im going to spend some time grabbing the healing power scaling of the barrier skills and updating the wiki.

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

Community : Hey Anet!!! please we need offensive support! we suck in PvE because we haven’t any!

Anet (1) : What? again?

Anet (2) : I don’t understand, we alredy gave them lots of corruptions!

Anet (1) : Maybe they didn’t like signet. Let’s go with a support e-spec that corrupt a lot and make sure they understand that it will be the support spec of the necromancer!

Anet (2) : So some corruptions and…?

Anet (1) : Necromancer is all about the shroud so obviously they will share it! It will be awesome! This spec will make everybody into necromancers!!!!

Anet (2) : Oh! corruption and extra life… got it! What about the extra stuff?

Anet (1) : They like torment! Give them torment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anet (2) : Oh nice! This will be great. However, what do we do about signet, they will overstep on what the spec do…

Anet (1) : Hu? what?

Anet (2) : well yes, signet corrupt on use since a bit…

Anet (1) : why not going with something like guardian signet?

Anet (2) : double effect and light aura? Light aura is kinda out of the necromancer thematic no?

Anet (1) : And elementalist signet trait?

Anet (2) : keep passive when used?

Anet (1) : Erk no!… Oh right! they wanted to benefit from signet in shroud let’s do that!

Anet (2) : You sure? The signet will be strong…

Anet (1) : No no! only when they take the trait, it should be balanced with the other GM trait.

Anet (2) : They will say that it sucks…

Anet (1) : We are giving them what they want! there is no way that they will say that! they will be blown away!

And thus the scourge was born… Changes to the signet trait were held done in order to avoid that the necromancer lose to much support before the release of the scourge.

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Decided to make a new post for this since Im half way through.
Chat links are on the wiki pages. Should be ok now.
Some interesting things.

Manifest Sand Shade works with all shroud 1 traits for when it does its strikes like we thought ( dhuumfire, reapers might, unyielding blast ) It doesn’t seem to be affected by VP for its count recharge though.

Nefarious Favour appear to work with path of corruption according to the tool-tip when traited. This one works with VP to have a 4s cooldown. Interesting thins is no-matter what my vitality the LF costs seems to be a fixed 1382.

Sand Cascade has a base of 2111 and a scaling of approx 0.76with a cost of 2478. Same as above I cant get the costs to change. VP works though.

Garish Pillar just works with VP. Fixed cost again of 4606. Nothing too special. Doesnt seemt o work with transfuse.

Desert Shroud works with on entering shroud traits as we thought. The chat link for this one for me with 0 HP has a base of 5016 and a scaling of ~0.63. Again Fixed costs of 3685. VP also works here.

Sand Flare has a base of 4208 and a scaling of ~1.51 for the barrier.

Sand Swell has a base of 1618 and a scaling of about 0.75

Serpent Siphon has been done in the op and it all checks out.

(edited by Sigmoid.7082)

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Posted by: Vitali.5039

Vitali.5039

Decided to make a new post for this since Im half way through.
Chat links are on the wiki pages. Should be ok now.
Some interesting things.

Manifest Sand Shade works with all shroud 1 traits for when it does its strikes like we thought ( dhuumfire, reapers might, unyielding blast ) It doesn’t seem to be affected by VP for its count recharge though.

Nefarious Favour appear to work with path of corruption according to the tool-tip when traited. This one works with VP to have a 4s cooldown. Interesting thins is no-matter what my vitality the LF costs seems to be a fixed 1382.

Sand Cascade has a base of 2111 and a scaling of approx 0.76with a cost of 2478. Same as above I cant get the costs to change. VP works though.

Garish Pillar just works with VP. Fixed cost again of 4606. Nothing too special. Doesnt seemt o work with transfuse.

Desert Shroud works with on entering shroud traits as we thought. The chat link for this one for me with 0 HP has a base of 5016 and a scaling of ~0.63. Again Fixed costs of 3685. VP also works here.

Sand Flare has a base of 4208 and a scaling of ~1.51 for the barrier.

Sand Swell has a base of 1618 and a scaling of about 0.75

Serpent Siphon has been done in the op and it all checks out.

^thanks for the tests man

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Posted by: KrHome.1920

KrHome.1920

Desert Shroud works with on entering shroud traits as we thought. The chat link for this one for me with 0 HP has a base of 5016 and a scaling of ~0.63. Again Fixed costs of 3685. VP also works here.

If it procs Spiteful Spirit and Weakening Shroud on top of its base functionality it is an incredible strong skill for a Power-Scourge in any PvP environment.

Does it proc the traits at the player or the sand shade location? Or even at both?

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Desert Shroud works with on entering shroud traits as we thought. The chat link for this one for me with 0 HP has a base of 5016 and a scaling of ~0.63. Again Fixed costs of 3685. VP also works here.

If it procs Spiteful Spirit and Weakening Shroud on top of its base functionality it is an incredible strong skill for a Power-Scourge in any PvP environment.

Does it proc the traits at the players or the sand shade location? Or even at both?

Hard to tell since those two skills dont add to the tooltips but since the boons from entering shroud work we can tell its coded as a shroud enter so it may proc weapons swaps and these two traits.

Im more interested in manifest sand shade. It in itself is a shade skill and as per another post i made the other day after watching WPs video more closely. Everytime you summon a shade, including the first summon, or use a shade skill it, and you, will attack. As long as these overlap you will end up putting out a ton of burning with Dhuumfire., gaining a ton of might with reapers might or putting out a bunch of vuln with unyielding blast.

Also some of the barrier skills have pretty high base numbers and with some HP they become pretty good.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Desert Shroud works with on entering shroud traits as we thought. The chat link for this one for me with 0 HP has a base of 5016 and a scaling of ~0.63. Again Fixed costs of 3685. VP also works here.

If it procs Spiteful Spirit and Weakening Shroud on top of its base functionality it is an incredible strong skill for a Power-Scourge in any PvP environment.

Does it proc the traits at the players or the sand shade location? Or even at both?

Hard to tell since those two skills dont add to the tooltips but since the boons from entering shroud work we can tell its coded as a shroud enter so it may proc weapons swaps and these two traits.

Im more interested in manifest sand shade. It in itself is a shade skill and as per another post i made the other day after watching WPs video more closely. Everytime you summon a shade, including the first summon, or use a shade skill it, and you, will attack. As long as these overlap you will end up putting out a ton of burning with Dhuumfire., gaining a ton of might with reapers might or putting out a bunch of vuln with unyielding blast.

Also some of the barrier skills have pretty high base numbers and with some HP they become pretty good.

Given the temporary nature of Barrier, anything less than 80% Healing Power scaling I will personally consider terrible.

I mean, that’s literally the lowest scaling we have on any skill Necros have (Your Soul is Mine) that’s not per-hit (Signet of the Locust is only .6/hit, for example). Even on traits, we only have one that’s lower (Spiteful Renewal). And these all give actual health!

Barrier, since it decays so rapidly, needs to scale much better than this. So far, I’m seeing a ton of disappointment from Scourge. It might be decent in WvW zerging, but that’s it. It will need massive buffs and functionality changes to work anywhere else.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)

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Posted by: Patrick.2987

Patrick.2987

I guess transfusion works with desert shroud since it is the only shroud skill with pulses. The interesting thing is if it triggers on uerself aswell or only on allies.

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Barrier, since it decays so rapidly, needs to scale much better than this.

I’m curious to see what you expect the barrier scaling to be.

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Posted by: Brujeria.7536

Brujeria.7536

Well if i trait with Transfusion it does not change the tooltip of desert shroud to include any healing. Im wondering what will happen with this, as transfusion is just fitting the support theme perfect.

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Well if i trait with Transfusion it does not change the tooltip of desert shroud to include any healing. Im wondering what will happen with this, as transfusion is just fitting the support theme perfect.

Doesn’t gain the stun-break skill-fact from FitG either so I dont think some of them are completely ..complete

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Posted by: Patrick.2987

Patrick.2987

It does not change the tooltip of any shroud.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Barrier, since it decays so rapidly, needs to scale much better than this.

I’m curious to see what you expect the barrier scaling to be.

Decided to make a new post for this since Im half way through.
Chat links are on the wiki pages. Should be ok now.
Some interesting things.

Manifest Sand Shade works with all shroud 1 traits for when it does its strikes like we thought ( dhuumfire, reapers might, unyielding blast ) It doesn’t seem to be affected by VP for its count recharge though.

Nefarious Favour appear to work with path of corruption according to the tool-tip when traited. This one works with VP to have a 4s cooldown. Interesting thins is no-matter what my vitality the LF costs seems to be a fixed 1382.

Sand Cascade has a base of 2111 and a scaling of approx 0.76with a cost of 2478. Same as above I cant get the costs to change. VP works though.

Garish Pillar just works with VP. Fixed cost again of 4606. Nothing too special. Doesnt seemt o work with transfuse.

Desert Shroud works with on entering shroud traits as we thought. The chat link for this one for me with 0 HP has a base of 5016 and a scaling of ~0.63. Again Fixed costs of 3685. VP also works here.

Sand Flare has a base of 4208 and a scaling of ~1.51 for the barrier.

Sand Swell has a base of 1618 and a scaling of about 0.75

Serpent Siphon has been done in the op and it all checks out.

Context, my friend. I also said what I consider the baseline acceptable scaling is.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Patrick.2987

Patrick.2987

Btw how did u test all this stuff alrdy?

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Barrier, since it decays so rapidly, needs to scale much better than this.

I’m curious to see what you expect the barrier scaling to be.

Decided to make a new post for this since Im half way through.
Chat links are on the wiki pages. Should be ok now.
Some interesting things.

Manifest Sand Shade works with all shroud 1 traits for when it does its strikes like we thought ( dhuumfire, reapers might, unyielding blast ) It doesn’t seem to be affected by VP for its count recharge though.

Nefarious Favour appear to work with path of corruption according to the tool-tip when traited. This one works with VP to have a 4s cooldown. Interesting thins is no-matter what my vitality the LF costs seems to be a fixed 1382.

Sand Cascade has a base of 2111 and a scaling of approx 0.76with a cost of 2478. Same as above I cant get the costs to change. VP works though.

Garish Pillar just works with VP. Fixed cost again of 4606. Nothing too special. Doesnt seemt o work with transfuse.

Desert Shroud works with on entering shroud traits as we thought. The chat link for this one for me with 0 HP has a base of 5016 and a scaling of ~0.63. Again Fixed costs of 3685. VP also works here.

Sand Flare has a base of 4208 and a scaling of ~1.51 for the barrier.

Sand Swell has a base of 1618 and a scaling of about 0.75

Serpent Siphon has been done in the op and it all checks out.

Context, my friend. I also said what I consider the baseline acceptable scaling is.

Well before you changed your post from 70% to 80% scaling pretty much all of the abilities were over the threshold bar enter sand shroud which has a much higher base value than the others. Even then the different between 0.75 and 0.8 is like 100 barrier at 2000 HP..its incredibly small. Also considering max barrier is 50% of max health one skill can cap some people and 50% others.

Just sounds like you dont want to like it. Your opinion is your own though.

Btw how did u test all this stuff alrdy?

Chat codes and math.

(edited by Sigmoid.7082)

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Yeah, I did change my number, because on reflection, it was still too low. This is effectively our block and even with heavy Healing Power investment, we will still see it vanish in one or two hits all the time and not even block it all!.

Honestly, if the rest of the spec actually pumped out serious damage, I’d be less concerned, but even discounting Deathly Chill, I think Reaper is still going to end up dishing out more condition damage than Scourge in realistic scenarios for PvE and will hold much more survivability than Scourge in PvP.

Scourge with current values is going to fail as a support spec because Barrier just isn’t strong enough and it will fail as a condi spec because it is far too reliant on boon corruption to do damage.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)

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Posted by: Brujeria.7536

Brujeria.7536

Scourge with current values is going to fail as a support spec because Barrier just isn’t strong enough and it will fail as a condi spec because it is far too reliant on boon corruption to do damage.

On a full support build the barriers are somewhat decent, the reason why it will fail is because it lacks the unique support.

IF barriers can step up to druid heals, druid still has spotter, grace of the land and spirits for good support and damage increase.

IF might for allies can step up to warriors PS, warrior still has banners and +150 power for allies, as well as dealing good damage.

IF Scourge can step up to both of these aspects the other classes are still superior, you will always pick at least one druid for grace of the land and spotter, better two. Team is still missing might then you pick a warrior, for the unique support and banners and because of the higher dps. Warrior does not even have to heavily invest in terms of gear to provide superb support.

So the solution here is really to give some means of unique buffs to necros. Solutions to this problem:

  • Give Curses a +150 expertise buff for allies, as well as a %chance on crit to cause bleed or torment
  • Give Bloodmagic’s Vampiric Presence a strong buff
  • Give Spite the possibility to stack vulnerability or might up to 35 stacks.
  • Give Scourge’s Sand Savant GM the additional effect that it shares the Minor Adept Buff with allies near the shade (15% boon duration and 15% condi duration)

That being said, i dont think Scourge is generally unplayable. It just wont get used in any decent scenario because it brings nothing unique to the table in PVE, and because it will turn PvP fights into a instant 4vs5.

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Posted by: Ravezaar.4951

Ravezaar.4951

Feed from Corruption looks better and better

Underjordens Furste 80 Necro Piken-server
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Posted by: Maxzero.4032

Maxzero.4032

Decided to make a new post for this since Im half way through.
Chat links are on the wiki pages. Should be ok now.
Some interesting things.

Manifest Sand Shade works with all shroud 1 traits for when it does its strikes like we thought ( dhuumfire, reapers might, unyielding blast ) It doesn’t seem to be affected by VP for its count recharge though.

Nefarious Favour appear to work with path of corruption according to the tool-tip when traited. This one works with VP to have a 4s cooldown. Interesting thins is no-matter what my vitality the LF costs seems to be a fixed 1382.

Sand Cascade has a base of 2111 and a scaling of approx 0.76with a cost of 2478. Same as above I cant get the costs to change. VP works though.

Garish Pillar just works with VP. Fixed cost again of 4606. Nothing too special. Doesnt seemt o work with transfuse.

Desert Shroud works with on entering shroud traits as we thought. The chat link for this one for me with 0 HP has a base of 5016 and a scaling of ~0.63. Again Fixed costs of 3685. VP also works here.

Sand Flare has a base of 4208 and a scaling of ~1.51 for the barrier.

Sand Swell has a base of 1618 and a scaling of about 0.75

Serpent Siphon has been done in the op and it all checks out.

VP not affecting F1 hurts. Directly affects the uptime of Shades. Plus point for Shade Savant.

Now the next big question is whether Sand Savant counts as 3 Shades for F1 purposes like it does for traits.

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Now the next big question is whether Sand Savant counts as 3 Shades for F1 purposes like it does for traits.

Probably not. It says “A greater shade counts as three shades for related traits.” which is very specific wording. Most likely meaning the two minors, desert empowerment, and unending corruption. Cant have it being the best trait for damage and support.

Interesting if it does though.

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Posted by: Maxzero.4032

Maxzero.4032

Now the next big question is whether Sand Savant counts as 3 Shades for F1 purposes like it does for traits.

Probably not. It says “A greater shade counts as three shades for related traits.” which is very specific wording. Most likely meaning the two minors, desert empowerment, and unending corruption. Cant have it being the best trait for damage and support.

Interesting if it does though.

I wonder. I mean Dhuumfire is a trait. So it should count for 3 there right? Thats the main one.

All that leaves is the 2 second Torment per Shade on F1 use. Technically the whole Shade system is a trait.

You are giving up Demonic Lore, smaller area coverage and less flexibility with Shade Savant so there should be some upside.

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

Now the next big question is whether Sand Savant counts as 3 Shades for F1 purposes like it does for traits.

Probably not. It says “A greater shade counts as three shades for related traits.” which is very specific wording. Most likely meaning the two minors, desert empowerment, and unending corruption. Cant have it being the best trait for damage and support.

Interesting if it does though.

I wonder. I mean Dhuumfire is a trait. So it should count for 3 there right? Thats the main one.

All that leaves is the 2 second Torment per Shade on F1 use. Technically the whole Shade system is a trait.

You are giving up Demonic Lore, smaller area coverage and less flexibility with Shade Savant so there should be some upside.

“Related traits”. I would say Dhuumfire benefits F1 but it’s not related. Always proccing three attacks from the shade would make savant the best choice for pretty much all situations.

Savant is the supportive GM based on the top line of traits before it. Has a larger radius and lower cool down to make use of those. It also covers a larger overall area and lets you cover more targets with greater ease and provide better support. If it was the best offensive choice too it wouldn’t really be fair.

We’ll see in 4 days but I hope I am right.

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

Another “problem” of this skill is that it’s Not a Minion. Summon a sand snake but it’s not a minion, only an AoE hit.

If that skill become a Minion that inflict minimal power damage and 2 sec of torment every hit (maybe every 0.50/0.75 sec), with an Active skill that corrupt a boon AoE and grant a Barrier to allies in the same AoE (CD 30 seconds), it will become more viable for a Minion Master build, that will be really good with the Scourge traits.

Blood magic and death magic with scourge an you obtain a perfect bunker/support build with minions and boon corruption.

One of the iconic skills of the necromancer are Minions and every elite should have a Minion skill.

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

Reading the description of the skill heavily implies that it fires projectiles at targets in the area.

Snake throw is a weird skill and it is difficult to peg where it might be good. WvW maybe.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: EremiteAngel.9765

EremiteAngel.9765

This skill seems rather similar to our current new Spectral Grasp in the sense that it is an AOE radius projectile? skill.
Feels rather underwhelming though and doesn’t really give us anything new.
I dislike that there seems to be so little variety in the offensive area for our new utilities.
I was hoping for a condi-transfer utility but…nope.

Talking about Spectral Grasp though, anyone can confirm it pulls invisible targets too?
I was fighting a mesmer the other day and thought I grabbed his clone with my main targeted grasp, but I think he got grabbed too while invis and appeared pulled beside me.

Can’t confirm though as it was in the heat of battle and I thought I saw it work that way, pulling him from invis even though my targeting was on his clone, and not him.

Scourge Demo Weekend Roaming Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsby6rYkxS8