Adding it on staff 5 would it make it a very bloated skill though. It already forces you to move, add torment on that and that is some crazy burst potential.
Not that there aren’t other bloated skills in game though
Personally I’d like rather weak (short, few stacks) application, but on a low’ish cooldown, so we can keep it up without getting insane, medi guard burn like burst from it.
Well considering that this thread is about adding torment to help condi necros, it doesn’t seem like the right place to talk about buffing staff because staff is really the utility weapon and it would overshadow scepter too hard if it was any better at condition damage.
Scepter needs to be better at condi anyway, so that’s not an issue. And staff hasn’t been a proper utility weapon for all builds in 2 years, pushing it more towards condi isn’t an issue, because its been an awful weapon all around for too long. If they fixed Axe up and gave it 900 range we’d not need staff for power builds anyway.
And staff hasn’t been a proper utility weapon for all builds in 2 years, pushing it more towards condi isn’t an issue, because its been an awful weapon all around for too long.
Honestly i wouldnt like that. Staff shouldnt be pushed into a condition role. It should stay that what it is, an utility weapon and if it doesnt offer enough utility then that aspect should be buffed. It should be a weapon you can take both in a power and condition builds like it currently is.
And staff hasn’t been a proper utility weapon for all builds in 2 years, pushing it more towards condi isn’t an issue, because its been an awful weapon all around for too long.
Honestly i wouldnt like that. Staff shouldnt be pushed into a condition role. It should stay that what it is, an utility weapon and if it doesnt offer enough utility then that aspect should be buffed. It should be a weapon you can take both in a power and condition builds like it currently is.
Yeah exactly.
Actually it is getting buffed since we’re getting reaper traits that interact with fear and chill.
Staff is not currently a utility weapon and hasn’t been for 2 years. It just flat out isn’t utility. Regen isn’t utility, condition transfer isn’t utility. Unless we start considering “has AoE and is 1200 range utility” staff hasn’t been a utility weapon for a very long time. Power builds lose nothing if Staff becomes a condi weapon so long as axe is made 900 range, you get the condition removal from dagger OH, AoE interrupt from Dagger OH.
Range is the second reason after terrible AA why I stopped using axe I was never a fan of staff on power build I even started hating it on condition and ran staff-less pre patch with better effectiveness but since now I’m using cele I guess I have to settle down for it, staff is just there it’s like a third wheel. I doubt we will ever get more torment now that I think about it I miss old Barbed Precision condition necro is next to dead but I think condition scaling plays a major role just like the class’ weak links.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
Staff is not currently a utility weapon and hasn’t been for 2 years. It just flat out isn’t utility. Regen isn’t utility, condition transfer isn’t utility. Unless we start considering “has AoE and is 1200 range utility” staff hasn’t been a utility weapon for a very long time. Power builds lose nothing if Staff becomes a condi weapon so long as axe is made 900 range, you get the condition removal from dagger OH, AoE interrupt from Dagger OH.
The regen is applied to allies not just the necro so that makes it utility.
Condi transfer is personal utility.
Chill is utility.
Fear is utility.
Blast finisher is utility.
Why are you so intent on making staff a condi weapon? Scepter is the condi weapon. Why would we want 2 condi weapons? It would be redundant.
Staff is not currently a utility weapon and hasn’t been for 2 years. It just flat out isn’t utility. Regen isn’t utility, condition transfer isn’t utility. Unless we start considering “has AoE and is 1200 range utility” staff hasn’t been a utility weapon for a very long time. Power builds lose nothing if Staff becomes a condi weapon so long as axe is made 900 range, you get the condition removal from dagger OH, AoE interrupt from Dagger OH.
The regen is applied to allies not just the necro so that makes it utility.
Condi transfer is personal utility.
Chill is utility.
Fear is utility.
Blast finisher is utility.
Why are you so intent on making staff a condi weapon? Scepter is the condi weapon. Why would we want 2 condi weapons? It would be redundant.
Ask yourself why are we getting GS if we have dagger as the melee power weapon. You can also look at other classes…
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
The regen is applied to allies not just the necro so that makes it utility.
Condi transfer is personal utility.
Chill is utility.
Fear is utility.
Blast finisher is utility.
Why are you so intent on making staff a condi weapon? Scepter is the condi weapon. Why would we want 2 condi weapons? It would be redundant.
Calling it a utility weapon implies that it has special utility. Condi transfer is on dagger OH, chill is all over our kit, fear is all over our kit and also not a special thing for anything except Terror builds, blast finisher is extremely unreliable.
If you get rid of staff you can replace all the “utility” you lost very easily, when I run D/WH and A/D I’m not missing any of what staff brings. This isn’t true of any other utility weapon in the game, and its why calling staff a utility weapon is ridiculous. Its like calling axe a burst weapon.
Torment is the Main Condition of the Revenant. Confusion is the Main Condition of the Mesmer. Fear is the Main Condition of the Necromancer and with the introduction of the Reaper, Chill will be on par if not superior to Fear. If you give the Necro more Torment and Traits for it, you will give them a THIRD Main Condition which would be a bit over the top.
If you compare Chill to Torment, Chill is by far the better Control Condition. Reaper might be a bit insane when it comes to applying conditions. Fear into Chilled into Vulnerability with Chilled inflicting Damage when specced Reaper and Fear inflicting Damage with Terror. Necro/Reaper has quite some sources of Fear in his Traits and even more Chilled on Skills.
Even without Reaper, The Necro does not need more Torment for better control, we already have Fear and Chill for that, you just have to use it.
Torment is the Main Condition of the Revenant. Confusion is the Main Condition of the Mesmer. Fear is the Main Condition of the Necromancer and with the introduction of the Reaper, Chill will be on par if not superior to Fear. If you give the Necro more Torment and Traits for it, you will give them a THIRD Main Condition which would be a bit over the top.
If you compare Chill to Torment, Chill is by far the better Control Condition. Reaper might be a bit insane when it comes to applying conditions. Fear into Chilled into Vulnerability with Chilled inflicting Damage when specced Reaper and Fear inflicting Damage with Terror. Necro/Reaper has quite some sources of Fear in his Traits and even more Chilled on Skills.
Even without Reaper, The Necro does not need more Torment for better control, we already have Fear and Chill for that, you just have to use it.
Fear and chill are niches of Necro/Reaper like blocks are for Guardian and evades are for an S/D thief. Fear and Chill cannot take the role of primary damage condition, and even still, no class is locked into having just one. Necromancers have bleed, torment and poison (and a touch of niche burn), Mesmers have a boatload but primarily confusion and torment, and Revenant has torment, poison and confusion (mallyx).
Diversifying conditions is pretty much a standard and necessary for a condition user to deal damage due to how condition removals work. It’s called covering your conditions. Necromancer already has torment. We just need a bit more than a single long-cooldown spell (which goes away with reaper).
And again, Fear nor chill can be a class’s “primary” condition in terms of damage.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
I was refering to the “Torment as light Control” which Necro does not need because he already has enough Fear and Chill for Control. Nowhere did i say that Fear is the Primary DAMAGE Condition of the Necro, i said it is the MAIN Condition as in “most access to compared to other conditions”
I was refering to the “Torment as light Control” which Necro does not need because he already has enough Fear and Chill for Control. Nowhere did i say that Fear is the Primary DAMAGE Condition of the Necro, i said it is the MAIN Condition as in “most access to compared to other conditions”
Well torment isn’t a control, it’s still damage. However it’s incredibly fitting to the necromancer, the slowest class, to punish people for running away.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
I was refering to the “Torment as light Control” which Necro does not need because he already has enough Fear and Chill for Control. Nowhere did i say that Fear is the Primary DAMAGE Condition of the Necro, i said it is the MAIN Condition as in “most access to compared to other conditions”
Well torment isn’t a control, it’s still damage. However it’s incredibly fitting to the necromancer, the slowest class, to punish people for running away.
The Problem for punishing them for running away is, they still can run away. That’s why i said Chilled is lightyears better for a slow Profession, because they can only run away at 33% Speed
Well considering that this thread is about adding torment to help condi necros, it doesn’t seem like the right place to talk about buffing staff because staff is really the utility weapon and it would overshadow scepter too hard if it was any better at condition damage.
1 stack of torment on staff auto is abysmal. It’s not even really a buff. I say lets do it!
I was refering to the “Torment as light Control” which Necro does not need because he already has enough Fear and Chill for Control. Nowhere did i say that Fear is the Primary DAMAGE Condition of the Necro, i said it is the MAIN Condition as in “most access to compared to other conditions”
Well torment isn’t a control, it’s still damage. However it’s incredibly fitting to the necromancer, the slowest class, to punish people for running away.
The Problem for punishing them for running away is, they still can run away. That’s why i said Chilled is lightyears better for a slow Profession, because they can only run away at 33% Speed
chilled + torment is what necro’s need to punish runners
I was refering to the “Torment as light Control” which Necro does not need because he already has enough Fear and Chill for Control. Nowhere did i say that Fear is the Primary DAMAGE Condition of the Necro, i said it is the MAIN Condition as in “most access to compared to other conditions”
Well torment isn’t a control, it’s still damage. However it’s incredibly fitting to the necromancer, the slowest class, to punish people for running away.
The Problem for punishing them for running away is, they still can run away. That’s why i said Chilled is lightyears better for a slow Profession, because they can only run away at 33% Speed
chilled + torment is what necro’s need to punish runners
Why? In that case, it is just a damaging condition. Posion deals more damage than Torment and it does not matter for poison if the target runs or stands and the healing is reduced by 33% aswell.
Single Stack + 0 CoDa:
Poison/s on Standing Enemy: 33.5
Torment/s on Standing Enemy: 15.9
Torment/s on Moving Enemy: 31.8
Poison has the better scaling and the better Utility, you just want Torment for Fluff as it is not more punishing to a Kiter than Poison. and “Fluff” is not exactly a Balance Decision.
