Guild Wars 2

Necro in the current state already has trouble keeping people from leaving combat after duking it out with you. That was the THEME of the entire class of making it hard to leave and slowly whittling down opponents.

With the movement decreases it allowed you to kite people at around 600-700 range while they couldnt get to you and slowly kill them off.

Medi guard alongside power rangers and good mesmers, new d/p are some of the worst matchups for condi necro and this basically hurts condi necro even more.

This tactic is ESSENTIAL versus the meditation guard in the condi matchup. Because while they have the blink mechanics to get to you, which you HAVE to endure and tank with either death shroud or spectral armor or your wurm blink. The greatsword leap will now be immune to this effect and make it even easier for them to basically destroy you in close range now.

Versus power ranger, getting into range was already difficult but them keeping them in range was easier once you got past the huge hard first step. But now with the changes light reflexes, and GS3 will make it even easier to disengage the fight and engage at 1500 range again to completely make it a horrible matchup. This is after necro probably blew a bunch of cooldowns and lifeforce to get into range.

Versus mesmer this is the same sorta deal but this is just general keeping into range. Good mesmers wont try to get into range at all versus a necro and instead constantly blink around while whittling a necro at range and only burst when they see an easy opportunity. Fear is actually an invisible projectile so it is easier to dodge fears at range. Additionally DS1 (dhuum) and DS2 are blocked by clones making it super advantageous to attack at range. Condi necros used the chill/cripple to make it easier to keep them in range and not attacking you as they try to run away.

6 0 2 0 6 D/p. THis matchup is already horrible cause of the stealth removing condis. But now once they get into range, its going to be extremely hard to crippl/chill peel them off you. This also makes the heartseeker immune to the chill/cripple making it actually EXTREMELY good now. for leaving and for chasing.

Conclusion TL;DR: Do not allow the movement decreases to change. Allow to increases to be capped and effected but decreases will nerf condi necro really badly.

Otherwise condi necros will be pidgeon-holed into a condi reaper spec in order to get DS2 to leap which will take advantage of the movement change.

I disagree in fact I think it’s a boon
As now all moment skills will function as if the player had no speed buffs passive or otherwise and won’t travel very far at all. Try some of those mobility skills without any boons or passive speed modifications and you will see.

Go read the pvp thread in the pvp forum regarding this exact issue. Almost all the players agree its a terrible change.

It’s labeled ‘Goodbye Counterplay?’

I posted this is necro forum because I wrote specific matchups on the condi necro.

They are saying warriors too, and while Rush and whirl attack are going to be outstanding and hard to catch. It’s not ‘as’ relevant to condi necros since they usually melt fast. However it is still an issue to address but in the current meta its a fairly trivial matchup for condi necros unless the warrior is exceptional.

The class I am the most worried about with this change is warriors. As a condition necromancer you can still apply bleeds and the more important skills at midrange, which is where most classes will be with the changed versions of their movement skills. Warriors running with greatsword and sword will be tough to kill (like they are already).

It only really affects warrior, ranger and engi and it actually loweres the maximum distance they can move. The more i think abou it the less this actually bothers me as a change. Also im calling the ride the lightning nerf is going to hit rush and swoop.

I understand your concerns regarding how they will inqnore soft cc. But I still see it as a plus as those skills without the speed boost never moved very far or very fast and will now only move what is on the tool tip. They wont be traveling the +100% range they do with speed mods now. As I see it enemies will have to get a lot closer now to get to you, for the most part and enemies won’t be able to get out of range now just by using a mobility skill, when they start to lose they won’t be able to get out of range at the tap of one skill anymore. Most of them without the op speed mods only went like 600 a few at 1000. Ride the lightning already functions under these rules from what ive read and it’s not op.
In any case the use of leap gap closers and the necromancers lack of them has always been a source of contention.

In all honesty after my first ne jerk reaction I realized this was actually okay. Reaper is still going to soft lock the movement of most people it catches. And it does have tools to keep foes from getting away. Ive come to realize we can actually use our chill to force htem to use there movement skills early in the fight. Making those skills have longer recharge times.

In other words there going to use there skills to get back from us. But when they reengage itl be longer before they can do that again. And the reaper is going to win nearly any attrition style fight in that form. Yeah some specific builds will be difficult to lock down. But then I feel there should be some such. Against other builds though were still going to wreck them.

Pretty sure everyone in every gametype is against this change.

Let’s be honest though, even now a shorter chilled/crippled leap still means you’re getting away from a necro.

flow.6043:

Let’s be honest though, even now a shorter chilled/crippled leap still means you’re getting away from a necro.

Too true, but at least now it is not a guaranteed skill-less escape as it will become.

Disengage, heal, reengage.. rinse repeat.

so necromance will be completly useless and reaper specialization too with this horrible slow gs when we dont have move reduction so its normal for anet nerf class with almost no mobility and buff class like war/thief with best mobility in game and make them more op so why is there 8 class we can have only war and thief after this necromancer will be free kill for thief

Taunt doesn’t so bad now does it :/?(searching for more pulls)

Reaper will suck balls.

Mentioned this a lot of times:

A.) Chill Change Next Update
B.) Chill does not affect Thieves completely

Which bring you to:

C.) Chill deals damage trait to be mandatory

its incredible pathetic make Reaper specialization on chill base and after this nerf chill i want see how many people will use in pvp gs what will be most slower weapon in game without move reduction

Pecar.1236:

its incredible pathetic make Reaper specialization on chill and after this nerf chill

Exactly and people are still deluded of this fact.

Yes reaper will have some other form or source of effectiveness.

but why would you make a lot of traits centered around chill if anet is just gonna nerf it?

It would be better if it was confusion in a sense because it is getting a revamp.

Well, there goes any desire I had to buy the expansion. The tradeoff for our terrible mobility is supposed to be that disengaging from a fight with us is hard. This has never, ever been the case, since people with the mobility to give chase are always going to be harder to get away from than slowboat Necros. However, this new change tells me that they are unaware of the above, and we can’t expect to see any changes that would address this, as they have chosen instead to make the situation worse.

So yeah. Not interested in buying or playing again, not with this BS.

i will do it easy stop play most useless class in game and start play most op class in game thief problem solved

Pecar.1236:

i will do it easy stop play most useless class in game and start play most op class in game thief problem solved

As someone who mains thief I will admit their design is the best in game at least to me, I always wanted every class to use initiative it would help with dumb cast times as well, the complete active sustain and etc etc this is a necro thread but don’t go as far as calling us OP.

I am not worried about the changes I’m worried of what comes with it.

I just don’t get their thinking. I mean do they look at their own game and think that the necro has any chance now of locking someone down? kitten we can’t catch anyone. Slow cast times, slow moving attacks, little to no movement skills a/leaps, range on one weapon that sucks for anything but a few marks, easily dodged projectiles.

Incoming reaper and I finally think hey, we can keep people near us with chill even with kittenty long cast times, but no, now someone will just leap the kitten away when we hit them with chill and likely before a stupid shout goes off or one of the long stupid cast times for cripple, chill, immob, goes off. Haha. Reaper will be a kittening pincushion and will simple get kited to death. Tat 600 range dash… So pwrful.

Lol!!!!!!

Gryph.8237:

I just don’t get their thinking. I mean do they look at their own game and think that the necro has any chance now of locking someone down? kitten we can’t catch anyone. Slow cast times, slow moving attacks, little to no movement skills a/leaps, range on one weapon that sucks for anything but a few marks, easily dodged projectiles.

Incoming reaper and I finally think hey, we can keep people near us with chill even with kittenty long cast times, but no, now someone will just leap the kitten away when we hit them with chill and likely before a stupid shout goes off or one of the long stupid cast times for cripple, chill, immob, goes off. Haha. Reaper will be a kittening pincushion and will simple get kited to death. Tat 600 range dash… So pwrful.

Lol!!!!!!

Someone mentioned in an another thread that we could be over exaggerating (not his words), even if the distance is unaffected the time it takes to travel there could still be affected thus not really negating the condition based on wording.

Sagat.3285:

Pecar.1236:

i will do it easy stop play most useless class in game and start play most op class in game thief problem solved

As someone who mains thief I will admit their design is the best in game at least to me, I always wanted every class to use initiative it would help with dumb cast times as well, the complete active sustain and etc etc this is a necro thread but don’t go as far as calling us OP.

I am not worried about the changes I’m worried of what comes with it.

To a lot of people, including myself, the thief is OP simply because of the initiative system you mentioned. I realize thieves have their own strengths and weaknesses when it comes to this system, IE you use too much and you can’t use ANY weapon skills, but the trade off is that it gives thieves the greatest strength afforded to anyone, choice. The ability to choose if you want to use a skill over again is amazing, I’d love to be able to use reaper’s mark twice in a row to double the stun duration, or stop a potential condition cleanse and let my condition tick just a bit longer. Of course I don’t really have that luxury. Also sorry, I’m not knocking thief, just seems if you mention anything that could even so much as suggest a nerf, they go nuts, and I’ve seen you in the necro forum a good bit so…yeah…guess you’re my release valve….-_-

Now with this change, if it indeed what many of us necros fear, that movement skills won’t be affected at all by chill/cripple, then yeah, reaper just got shot in the knees on the starting line. HOPEFULLY it doesn’t mean that though, but until we get a definitive answer, I don’t blame anybody for being upset at the current news.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Sagat.3285:

Pecar.1236:

i will do it easy stop play most useless class in game and start play most op class in game thief problem solved

As someone who mains thief I will admit their design is the best in game at least to me, I always wanted every class to use initiative it would help with dumb cast times as well, the complete active sustain and etc etc this is a necro thread but don’t go as far as calling us OP.

I am not worried about the changes I’m worried of what comes with it.

To a lot of people, including myself, the thief is OP simply because of the initiative system you mentioned. I realize thieves have their own strengths and weaknesses when it comes to this system, IE you use too much and you can’t use ANY weapon skills, but the trade off is that it gives thieves the greatest strength afforded to anyone, choice. The ability to choose if you want to use a skill over again is amazing, I’d love to be able to use reaper’s mark twice in a row to double the stun duration, or stop a potential condition cleanse and let my condition tick just a bit longer. Of course I don’t really have that luxury. Also sorry, I’m not knocking thief, just seems if you mention anything that could even so much as suggest a nerf, they go nuts, and I’ve seen you in the necro forum a good bit so…yeah…guess you’re my release valve….-_-

Now with this change, if it indeed what many of us necros fear, that movement skills won’t be affected at all by chill/cripple, then yeah, reaper just got shot in the knees on the starting line. HOPEFULLY it doesn’t mean that though, but until we get a definitive answer, I don’t blame anybody for being upset at the current news.

I see it I guess some of us are like that because many just suggests absurd things. Hopefully the time to travel is still affected even if the distance is not but I really wanted all classes to use initiative to me that’s the saddest thing in GW2. Upcoming patches seems more significant then we expected.

C.) Chill deals damage trait to be mandatory

Not really.

I dont think its going to be a huge bother since it effects a very small number of skills that now wont be covering an extra 2~300 range. The main skills this is going to bother are ride the lightning, if its used to get away it has a 40s cooldown, Rush , savage leap, swoop and hornets sting but then the ranger/warrior has to have swords.

Im not at all bothered because of a few other things as well as just reaper and their chill uptime. the movement speed reduction is more of a bonus. the real thing im excited about is more chill uptime and ease of application because chill triples peoples cooldowns.

Dont bring meta arguments because that is all going to change because of stat, trait and condi scaling changes.

Sagat.3285:

Someone mentioned in an another thread that we could be over exaggerating (not his words), even if the distance is unaffected the time it takes to travel there could still be affected thus not really negating the condition based on wording.

It means that they have to recode the movement skills completely, doubt it.

I read mainly 1 thing into the “dash” change… the most annoying, powerful, bs Condi is just getting even more powerful: immobolize

a kick in the nuts Anet, truly

TBH, these soft CCs are never really a thing. The best they could do are good distractions and not by any means I am insulting those as functionalities. I was running DPS chill necro for some time to test it out before… and tbh, you’re never really gonna end up holding anything in place for long. It’s not about the impairment effects, it’s the condi cleanses. Losing a volatile movement CCs while doing away with the insta-rocket-launcher-engi-on-cracks seems like a good deal to me.

DavyMcB.1603:

TBH, these soft CCs are never really a thing. The best they could do are good distractions and not by any means I am insulting those as functionalities. I was running DPS chill necro for some time to test it out before… and tbh, you’re never really gonna end up holding anything in place for long. It’s not about the impairment effects, it’s the condi cleanses. Losing a volatile movement CCs while doing away with the insta-rocket-launcher-engi-on-cracks seems like a good deal to me.

This guy knows what the he*k he is talking about.

Most people here are dreaming a Nerf in Mobile as a Buff.

DavyMcB.1603:

TBH, these soft CCs are never really a thing. The best they could do are good distractions and not by any means I am insulting those as functionalities. I was running DPS chill necro for some time to test it out before… and tbh, you’re never really gonna end up holding anything in place for long. It’s not about the impairment effects, it’s the condi cleanses. Losing a volatile movement CCs while doing away with the insta-rocket-launcher-engi-on-cracks seems like a good deal to me.

To be my brother for a few seconds:

>Implying that a few badly coded jumps that combo with super speed interactions means everything should be nerfed

>Implying soft cc not crucial part for necro, ranger and ele (and some rareish thief/engie builds) survival by kiting

>Implying its not a dumbing down of game mechanics

WvWvW zerg player detected.

I already mentioned this to Bhawb, but I suspect this change is a side-effect of normalizing leaps with Quickness and Slow. Right now, using a leap with Quickness actually reduces the distance you travel because the movement speed is the same, but the time you move at that speed is lower.

Not the best way to code things.

Sigmoid.7082:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Lord Kuru.3685:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Can we try actually PLAYING the patch before we brandish our pitchforks please?

Here we go again.

When a game does balance updates only every six months and does not player test those updates, every single update is super high stakes. Six months of broken gameplay is a very long time.

Players have no choice but to speak out on their predictions.

In past updates they typically didn’t completely change the trait system and will soon add a new soft CC. Normally I would agree with you, but in this case we have no idea how slow will affect melee characters.

Slow won’t affect melee any worse than anyone else. It increases cast time of skills, it doesn’t hinder your ability to move.

I was thinking about this on my way home from work. Slow and quickness change the cast time of a skill by -+50%. For example if you cast rush with haste will you travel 1200 distance in 1.3s or only travel 923 distance. Same with slow. Will you travel 1200 distance in 3s or travel 1800 distance.

I think the changes may have been for this as well. Means their is a difference between types of movement. You will have shadow steps, teleports, running and skills that move you.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I already mentioned this to Bhawb, but I suspect this change is a side-effect of normalizing leaps with Quickness and Slow. Right now, using a leap with Quickness actually reduces the distance you travel because the movement speed is the same, but the time you move at that speed is lower.

Not the best way to code things.

Wouldnt fixing the code then to give a pseudo speed boost and slow respectively during the casts to make sure mobility skills under quickness go for full length (more with ss/swiftness) in half the time/under slow take twice as long to get to their end distance be a more functional long term efficient fix? If condition and boon interaction with mobility skills is really the reason for the change, why are they trying to amputate the broken leg instead of turning it into a mech demon stomper/improving it and increasing gameplay depth?

Because turning it into a mech demon stomper is more difficult.

It would be a pretty big change for them to do. You’re basically asking them to completely re-do every movement skill that is affected by these things, which is a lot to do. I think its better for the game’s overall balance if they make this change and then follow up with better balance afterwards, such as giving Necromancers more/reliable/better pulls.

Bhawb.7408:

It would be a pretty big change for them to do. You’re basically asking them to completely re-do every movement skill that is affected by these things, which is a lot to do. I think its better for the game’s overall balance if they make this change and then follow up with better balance afterwards, such as giving Necromancers more/reliable/better pulls.

Spectral grasp/Reapers grasp:
Remove stability and pull your target(s) to your location. Apply XYZ affect.

Bhawb.7408:

It would be a pretty big change for them to do. You’re basically asking them to completely re-do every movement skill that is affected by these things, which is a lot to do. I think its better for the game’s overall balance if they make this change and then follow up with better balance afterwards, such as giving Necromancers more/reliable/better pulls.

haha, this is the kind of dreaming that leads to people quitting the game. this is Anet we are talking about here people, the same devs who talk about condis not being affected by vulnerability as not being fair (yet we told them about it during beta), the same people who said that the condition cap is unfair all of a sudden (like it hasn’t been an issue since beta), i could go on but you get the point. it will be 3 years minimum before any fixes to the changes they are going to make now will be addressed, unless ofc there is a huge outcry from the players or bad press about the change because Anet don’t develop systems with any foresight.

Odeezee.7362:

Bhawb.7408:

It would be a pretty big change for them to do. You’re basically asking them to completely re-do every movement skill that is affected by these things, which is a lot to do. I think its better for the game’s overall balance if they make this change and then follow up with better balance afterwards, such as giving Necromancers more/reliable/better pulls.

haha, this is the kind of dreaming that leads to people quitting the game. this is Anet we are talking about here people, the same devs who talk about condis not being affected by vulnerability as not being fair (yet we told them about it during beta), the same people who said that the condition cap is unfair all of a sudden (like it hasn’t been an issue since beta), i could go on but you get the point. it will be 3 years minimum before any fixes to the changes they are going to make now will be addressed, unless ofc there is a huge outcry from the players or bad press about the change because Anet don’t develop systems with any foresight.

I’ll liked to save another “3 more years to go” for after tomorrow unlike you I contain my realistic side to not becomes foes of the optimistic ones.