I know right? It’s going to be so much fun transferring even MORE conditions to enemies! And with the synergy between the new Spite grandmaster + Curses master, we’ll automatically do so instantly every 24 seconds or so, on top of self-might stacks and boon conversion on enemies!
Glad I’m not the only one who looks at the synergy between traits and skills and doesn’t complain about nerfs that are actually buffs when you know how the necromancer class works ^^.
And what stops you from transferring the vuln (or converting it to protection with well of power) after using your heal? Hmm… I guess there is always the warrior for passive condition builds…
And what stops you from transferring the vuln (or converting it to protection with well of power) after using your heal? Hmm… I guess there is always the warrior for passive condition builds…
let’s see evades, dodges, blocks, invulns, reflects,…
Because obviously what necro needed on top of his long cast times on heal skills is to take 10% more damage after using said skill if he doesn’t have an offhand dagger or staff equipped, and for that heal to have a 5 second longer cooldown.
And what stops you from transferring the vuln (or converting it to protection with well of power) after using your heal? Hmm… I guess there is always the warrior for passive condition builds…
You pay via opportunity cost. For one, it forces you into using a staff or offhand dagger to not make yourself take 10% more damage. Not all builds will use those weapons, especially power builds.
And the problem is that those builds that won’t use offhand dagger orstaff won’t use the other heals because the other heals are terrible. Well of Blood is a crappy Healing Spring with a longer cooldown that doesn’t clear conditions. The minion dies immediately to cleave and has terrible AI, and signet of vampirism is the worst necromancer heal by far.
And what stops you from transferring the vuln (or converting it to protection with well of power) after using your heal? Hmm… I guess there is always the warrior for passive condition builds…
let’s see evades, dodges, blocks, invulns, reflects,…
Good thing you can guarantee a transfer by flashing doom followed by #4 dagger or plague signet. Heck, most builds these days use passive AI you could abuse. But yeah, those dodge spam turrents and invuln clones Q.Q.
Because obviously what necro needed on top of his long cast times on heal skills is to take 10% more damage after using said skill if he doesn’t have an offhand dagger or staff equipped, and for that heal to have a 5 second longer cooldown.
If only we had an option to counterbalance this risk with the new death magic traits. 10% less damage from poisoned foes + 300 toughness and 20% less damage from conditions using the new grandmaster would be lovely. Life is hard :C.
You pay via opportunity cost. For one, it forces you into using a staff or offhand dagger to not make yourself take 10% more damage. Not all builds will use those weapons, especially power builds.
And the problem is that those builds that won’t use offhand dagger orstaff won’t use the other heals because the other heals are terrible. Well of Blood is a crappy Healing Spring with a longer cooldown that doesn’t clear conditions. The minion dies immediately to cleave and has terrible AI, and signet of vampirism is the worst necromancer heal by far.
And they counterbalance this risk through the new traits introduced, which do not force you into said weapon sets and give you the option to go another route to use it to your advantage.
Yes it is a buff but now I can’t go anywhere I want except the path that they already chose for me.
Consume Conditions? CD 30sec > Trait to 20sec > you get Chill when you trait it so it went back to 25sec.
You just got tricked by Anet.
It gives you chill? Good to know we have some Devs left here in the necro forums… I almost lost hope!
Point still stands. Well of power or simply transfer it if it is that game breaking for you. Converting chill turns it to resistance, and you won’t even have to worry about the corruption downsides.
Consume conditions was the goto skill for 3 years. Nothing else came even close to the condition removal utility it offers.
We might finally see some other skills beeing used and that would be nice.
Maybe vamp signet is finally an ok skill.
Is it enough? Not sure but time will tell.
Thank you. It’s nice to have someone else who isn’t a Naysayer and cries nerf before we actually get numbers and basic information on everything. Could this turn out to be terrible? Of course; doesn’t mean it will tho.
Ignoring the obvious tools anet gave us to deal with it doesn’t make it any worse of a change. It only makes you a worse player.
Favorite part:
-can’t realiably escape
-gonna hurt myself with my heal
-procing the heal to lower cd hurts myself even more
That is some Anet logic right there.
-How does this have to do with corruption skills in any way? We sucked at escaping beforehand.
-Can also buff yourself with that heal by turning it into protection or making your enemy take 10% more damage.
-^ Read above.
I didn’t say it changed or was related. It was there just to show that this cripples us even more since healing ourselves makes us even more vulnerable to burst. 4 secs is more than enough to boost enemys burst ’cause of aftercast and our cast times. There is nothing left to convert or transfer.
I didn’t say it changed or was related. It was there just to show that this cripples us even more since healing ourselves makes us even more vulnerable to burst. 4 secs is more than enough to boost enemys burst ’cause of aftercast and our cast times. There is nothing left to convert or transfer.
Vulnerability doesn’t make you slower. If you couldn’t outrun that thief, 10% less damage wasn’t going to magically cause you to live. 4 seconds is also more than enough time to deal with the debuff it gives you, so there’s that. And what do you mean “there is nothing left to convert or transfer”? It will put 10 stacks of vuln on us so we can transfer/convert it.
I know right? It’s going to be so much fun transferring even MORE conditions to enemies! And with the synergy between the new Spite grandmaster + Curses master, we’ll automatically do so instantly every 24 seconds or so, on top of self-might stacks and boon conversion on enemies!
Glad I’m not the only one who looks at the synergy between traits and skills and doesn’t complain about nerfs that are actually buffs when you know how the necromancer class works ^^.
/s
If you have a tranfer skill up… WHY DON’T YOU kittenING TRANSFER THE BULK OF CONDIS INSTEAD ANYWAY?!
Instead of, yknow, removing the conditions and then reapplying others to yourself. Seriously, this change SUCKS.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
If you have a tranfer skill up… WHY DON’T YOU kittenING TRANSFER THE BULK OF CONDIS INSTEAD ANYWAY?!
Instead of, yknow, removing the conditions and then reapplying others to yourself. Seriously, this change SUCKS.
Hey! That’s an even better idea! We could transfer huge amounts of conditions onto our foes, heal, and not have to worry about them bursting us because they have 5-6 different conditions on them! We could also convert that vuln to protection as well, and negate any of the condis they put back onto us! COUNTERPLAY!@
the other heals did not suddenly become good because another skills was made useless, please the logic….
Nope, but it does give you viable options without taking the same thing in every single build because it was crazy strong for what it did. Also, I guarantee that you and the other people complaining about this change will still be using this “useless” heal despite it being so “useless”. Please, the logic.
If you have a tranfer skill up… WHY DON’T YOU kittenING TRANSFER THE BULK OF CONDIS INSTEAD ANYWAY?!
Instead of, yknow, removing the conditions and then reapplying others to yourself. Seriously, this change SUCKS.
Hey! That’s an even better idea! We could transfer huge amounts of conditions onto our foes, heal, and not have to worry about them bursting us because they have 5-6 different conditions on them! We could also convert that vuln to protection as well, and negate any of the condis they put back onto us! COUNTERPLAY!@
Uhm no. cause then we heal for less and are STILL stuck with friggin conditions. 10 stacks of vuln is bullkitten. I guess we are shoehorned into taking Death Magic for shrouded removal now, huh.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
the other heals did not suddenly become good because another skills was made useless, please the logic….
Nope, but it does give you viable options without taking the same thing in every single build because it was crazy strong for what it did. Also, I guarantee that you and the other people complaining about this change will still be using this “useless” heal despite it being so “useless”. Please, the logic.
You now need to bring more condi removal/transfer in some other way (traits or utilities) that you needed before. How is that making other not buffed heals better or viable that weren’t that even before?
OMG! ZERG INC! Get this chill/cripple/immob off so that I can get out of combat! Yay Consume Conditions!
Wait, I’m still not out of combat because of the vulnerab——dead.
Because you would of totally won that 1v20 if you didn’t have 10 vuln stacks on you. Also, when did they make vulnerability cripple players? You are the second player who has mentioned this undocumented change…
And if you had cripple/chill/immob on you, I can guarantee that you have at least 1 player attacking you at that given moment since necros can’t escape without these conditions on them anyways. Good try tho, you put the most effort into your response so I’ll give you that.
OMG! ZERG INC! Get this chill/cripple/immob off so that I can get out of combat! Yay Consume Conditions!
Wait, I’m still not out of combat because of the vulnerab——dead.
Because you would of totally won that 1v20 if you didn’t have 10 vuln stacks on you. Also, when did they make vulnerability cripple players? You are the second player who has mentioned this undocumented change…
And if you had cripple/chill/immob on you, I can guarantee that you have at least 1 player attacking you at that given moment since necros can’t escape without these conditions on them anyways. Good try tho, you put the most effort into your response so I’ll give you that.
And this is why the 10 stacks or vulrn hurts! Seriously you said it yourself.
You now need to bring more condi removal/transfer in some other way (traits or utilities) that you needed before. How is that making other not buffed heals better or viable that weren’t that even before?
Why is this? Transfers move just as many conditions as they did before. The only thing changing is the timing of said skills. Heck, you could pop a few corruption skills, get loads of condis on yourself, heal for massive amounts of health since consume conditions heals per condition, and then transfer/convert the vuln that apparently makes necro unplayable for you.
Other heals become viable because if you didn’t take consume conditions, your complaints wouldn’t mean anything anyways. Unless every other necro heal also puts 10 vuln stacks on you… kitten , it must be nice being a dev who has inside info Q.Q.
Their whole idea with corruption skills is just terrible. They’re just utilities that pigeonhole you into certain weapons in order for them to not hurt you.
Their whole idea with corruption skills is just terrible. They’re just utilities that pigeonhole you into certain weapons in order for them to not hurt you.
Except now we have even more traits to deal with this, not pigeonholing you into said weapons.
Im more bothered about the stat changes actually. since we are free to take whatever we want now opposed to getting stats from lines im wondering how its going to change the builds effectiveness alone with traits rather than just the traits themselves.
Can take curses/spite/blood on a power build for like bloodbond, weakening shroud and barbed precision synergy and the signet trait for more synergy along with plague sending and lesser signet of vamp from bloodbond.
No wonder stream suddenly broke down right before necros turn, grouch read the notes and decided it was too much to present this bullkitten to us on live stream.
Uhm no. cause then we heal for less and are STILL stuck with friggin conditions. 10 stacks of vuln is bullkitten. I guess we are shoehorned into taking Death Magic for shrouded removal now, huh.
Nah, it just gives you a high risk high reward skill that will need to be timed to your advantage, while also being able to turn that risk into even more reward through additional tools.
You now need to bring more condi removal/transfer in some other way (traits or utilities) that you needed before. How is that making other not buffed heals better or viable that weren’t that even before?
Why is this? Transfers move just as many conditions as they did before. The only thing changing is the timing of said skills. Heck, you could pop a few corruption skills, get loads of condis on yourself, heal for massive amounts of health since consume conditions heals per condition, and then transfer/convert the vuln that apparently makes necro unplayable for you.
Other heals become viable because if you didn’t take consume conditions, your complaints wouldn’t mean anything anyways. Unless every other necro heal also puts 10 vuln stacks on you… kitten , it must be nice being a dev who has inside info Q.Q.
Seriously dude. I could remove my condis with CC and save the condi transfer for later. Now I need to use it right after even if I don’t want to since it’s affecting me right after I just cleansed the condis. So to counter this needed condi tranfer/remove I need to get an extra to get that condi transfer to use when I need it. There is no heal in this game that hurts you. Except this!
And no if heal one heals for 3k and heal two 2k it doesn’t make the heal two viable to make the first heal to hurt you in the process. It makes them both useless.
Im more bothered about the stat changes actually. since we are free to take whatever we want now opposed to getting stats from lines im wondering how its going to change the builds effectiveness alone with traits rather than just the traits themselves.
Can take curses on a power build and such.
Exactly, build diversity is that much better and you aren’t forced into a line just because it gives x amount of condition damage. You can build around your weaknesses without a huge penalty for doing so.
Seriously dude. I could remove my condis with CC and save the condi transfer for later. Now I need to use it right after even if I don’t want to since it’s affecting me right after I just cleansed the condis. So to counter this needed condi tranfer/remove I need to get an extra to get that condi transfer to use when I need it. There is no heal in this game that hurts you. Except this!
And no if heal one heals for 3k and heal two 2k it doesn’t make the heal two viable to make the first heal to hurt you in the process. It makes them both useless.
Or, you could, you know… go into deathshroud and counter pressure whoever is on you effectively forcing them to play defensively instead of offensively. Transferring/converting is just an option for those who feel the need to complain about a trivial ‘downside’.
Also, consume conditions heals for 5.2k + 724 PER condition on you. How is it useless exactly? People will always find a reason to complain, but this is just silly.
the more i look at it the better it seems to get beides consume conditions getting wrecked but i could see that coming a mile off. Lots of synergy though.
Can take curses/spite/blood on a power build for like bloodbond, weakening shroud and barbed precision synergy and the signet trait for more synergy along with plague sending and lesser signet of vamp from bloodbond.
something like that will end up having siphons doing a ton of damage for you and a lot of boon removal and weakness.
No wonder stream suddenly broke down right before necros turn, grouch read the notes and decided it was too much to present this bullkitten to us on live stream.
I thought it was due to the excess of player tears short circuiting the twitch servers… Guess you aren’t always right, huh.
the more i look at it the better it seems to get beides consume conditions getting wrecked but i could see that coming a mile off. Lots of synergy though.
Can take curses/spite/blood on a power build for like bloodbond, weakening shroud and barbed precision synergy and the signet trait for more synergy along with plague sending and lesser signet of vamp from bloodbond.
something like that will end up having siphons doing a ton of damage for you and a lot of boon removal and weakness.
I’m not saying consume conditions is end all amazing with no downside. I was simply stating we do have the tools to deal with the threat, and can even turn the risk into reward. The only way we can tell for sure is to test it out next week, but until then I don’t think we should ignore the new additions Anet has given us ^^.
the more i look at it the better it seems to get beides consume conditions getting wrecked but i could see that coming a mile off. Lots of synergy though.
Can take curses/spite/blood on a power build for like bloodbond, weakening shroud and barbed precision synergy and the signet trait for more synergy along with plague sending and lesser signet of vamp from bloodbond.
something like that will end up having siphons doing a ton of damage for you and a lot of boon removal and weakness.
I’m not saying consume conditions is end all amazing with no downside. I was simply stating we do have the tools to deal with the threat, and can even turn the risk into reward. The only way we can tell for sure is to test it out next week, but until then I don’t think we should ignore the new additions Anet has given us ^^.
Im not, just need a build calc to be updated to start throwing my builds together. Spite/curses/blood magic is going to be one i play for sure. Like i said there is so much synergy in there that its going to be a lot of fun to play around with but im more interested in how they are changing stats because they are the other half of a build. Traits can be as OP as you like but with how amulets are locked stat wise then it may not be as strong as it seems.
Uhm no. cause then we heal for less and are STILL stuck with friggin conditions. 10 stacks of vuln is bullkitten. I guess we are shoehorned into taking Death Magic for shrouded removal now, huh.
Nah, it just gives you a high risk high reward skill that will need to be timed to your advantage, while also being able to turn that risk into even more reward through additional tools.
It would be fine… if not every single other kittening class would have tons of high reward, low/no risk skills ,that is.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
Im not, just need a build calc to be updated to start throwing my builds together. Spite/curses/blood magic is going to be one i play for sure. Like i said there is so much synergy in there that its going to be a lot of fun to play around with but im more interested in how they are changing stats because they are the other half of a build. Traits can be as OP as you like but with how amulets are locked stat wise then it may not be as strong as it seems.
Yup, we need more in-game information before any conclusions can be made. The synergy is definitely there, but Anet can’t tweak numbers if people simply ask for something interesting to be removed completely. We need to be open-minded and willing to try something out.
I am sorry if I come off harsh in my responses, but I just believe it would be completely disappointing if Anet took away something that can possibly reward skillful game play just because people don’t like how it looks on paper. :/
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