Guild Wars 2

http://sickestguild.com/forum/m/31644179/viewthread/25151391-spirit-vale-condi-necro

Ascended Sinister trinkets actually provide more for condition damage than Exotic Viper’s do, especially if you have Curses line. Given how poorly staff and scepter scale with Power, that’s your route to optimal damage.

Viper’s weapons, amulet (how do you get this, by the way?), and armor, Sinister Rings and trinkets, Rabid backpiece. All Ascended. If you have the legendary backpiece, go Vipers on that, but currently, that’s your only option to have anything but Rabid for condition Ascended in that slot.

Any chance i can see your spreadsheets behind the builds?

Yeah the only differences from my raid build are -
1) If I’m not using CPC I use Epidemic
2) Sinsiter trinkets because I’m able to get bleed/chill to 100, everything else to high 80’s.
3) Sigil of Malice instead of earth
4) Augury of Death instead of Chilling Nova unless I really need the aoe chill (maybe Sabetha? Just starting that fight)
5) 2 Trapper / 4 Nightmare for the condition duration (since using sinister trinkets)

Well also Lich, but that is mentioned in the post. I notice a huge dps increase whenever I’m using it, my minions rarely die off before I get another set out.

Moritz.4056:

Any chance i can see your spreadsheets behind the builds?

rickay will release them soon

Sigil of Earth + Vipers > Sigil of Malice + Sinster. The build originally started out with Malice and Sinister but during optimization the Vipers set topped out on DPS.

If you refuse to use anything except Sigil of Malice, the next best set-up is Vipers gear + Berzerker Runes.

Scootabuser.4915:

Moritz.4056:

Any chance i can see your spreadsheets behind the builds?

rickay will release them soon

Sigil of Earth + Vipers > Sigil of Malice + Sinster. The build originally started out with Malice and Sinister but during optimization the Vipers set topped out on DPS.

If you refuse to use anything except Sigil of Malice, the next best set-up is Vipers gear + Berzerker Runes.

Thanks for the answer.
Where do i have to look for them?

Moritz.4056:

Scootabuser.4915:

Moritz.4056:

Any chance i can see your spreadsheets behind the builds?

rickay will release them soon

Sigil of Earth + Vipers > Sigil of Malice + Sinster. The build originally started out with Malice and Sinister but during optimization the Vipers set topped out on DPS.

If you refuse to use anything except Sigil of Malice, the next best set-up is Vipers gear + Berzerker Runes.

Thanks for the answer.
Where do i have to look for them?

Reddit or our forums.

Quick question: does red seeker orbs death/despawn count for the trait Death nova, where you spawn jagged horror on enemy’s death? If it works will be huge! I’ll probably test it out tomorrow.

Lynnie.7213:

Quick question: does red seeker orbs death/despawn count for the trait Death nova, where you spawn jagged horror on enemy’s death? If it works will be huge! I’ll probably test it out tomorrow.

You get life force from them when they die at least, so I would assume they count as a unit? So that would mean it would spawn a jagged horror, right? I do not know for sure though, let us know about the outcome of your test

What about Sigil of Geomancy instead of Sigil of Earth? If you swap whenever you can, shouldn’t that amount to more bleeding stacks?

Depends if you are swapping every 10 seconds. If you ever miss a swap on cooldown Earth is probably slightly better.

If you look at the base numbers its 3 stacks for 10 seconds on a 10 second cooldown. Versus 5 stacks everys 10 seconds with 5 second duration. So you could equate that to 6 stacks with 5 second duration for geomancy verses 5 stacks with 5 second duration for earth.

And geomancy doesnt work at range whereas earth does.

“Power Reaper is very special because it has the highest execute (below 50%) DPS in the game.”

I honestly doubt that. Will your spreadsheed have proof for this?

Molch.2078:

“Power Reaper is very special because it has the highest execute (below 50%) DPS in the game.”

I honestly doubt that. Will your spreadsheed have proof for this?

Yes

Good point. So whichever works the best probably varies a bit from encounter to encounter.

So.. with the Sigil of Earth being a 60% chance to proc, how realistic is it to get all 5 stacks of bleeding with it?

I doubt you would/should swap at all.. wouldn’t it be a DPS-drop to spend 10sec on any other weapon with this build (condi)?

Yeah i tried using focus on second set for extra chill. But found it was unnecessary. But you could still use a swap sigil and just run scepter in 1 set and offhand dagger in the other purely for swap sigils. But generally yes you always want to be on scepter dagger or scepter something.

Shroud also procs weapon swap sigils. So you can use that even if you dont separate your scepter and dagger across two weapon sets.

OlliX.1705:

Good point. So whichever works the best probably varies a bit from encounter to encounter.

So.. with the Sigil of Earth being a 60% chance to proc, how realistic is it to get all 5 stacks of bleeding with it?

The equation for determining damage for sigil of earth and other chance on crit proc effects is:

Damage = (Time/(((Critchance * Successrate) * InternalCooldown)+((1-(Critchance*successrate)) * SecPerHit)) * Crichance * Sucessrate *Damageperproc

Divide that by time for DPS

So lets assume you have a 100% crit chance and your seconds per hit is .65 with a 30 second rotation

33719 = (30/(((1*.6)2)+((1-(1.6)).65))1*.6*2735

=

~1123 DPS

It’s using a weighted average to determine the average number of times in between ATTEMPTS to proc the sigil, then you multiply it by the chance at a successful attempt, then by the damage

Another question:
With CRC you inflict self-weakness, with blood is power self-tormet. “Suffer!” transfers one condition. I guess it transfers the torment because it came last and you just deal with the weakness, which doesn’t to much for condis?

Edit: Question 2:
Is soulreaping for a power-build also weaker than blood if you have a second nekro with blook already in the raid?

Yeah, putting the dagger and the scepter in two separate sets is what I’ve been doing while using the Geomancy sigil and swapping on cooldown in melee range.

Starfall.6425:

Another question:
With CRC you inflict self-weakness, with blood is power self-tormet. “Suffer!” transfers one condition. I guess it transfers the torment because it came last and you just deal with the weakness, which doesn’t to much for condis?

Edit: Question 2:
Is soulreaping for a power-build also weaker than blood if you have a second nekro with blook already in the raid?

That’s why deathly swam is part of the rotation, I’ve never had to worry about transfering condis with suffer, i just use it off cooldown.

Yes, The DPS from the current builds mainly comes from the lower cooldowns on the wells and deathly chill, in fact a soul reaping rotation wouldn’t even work as all of your high damage abilities come off at different times. People underestimate how much dps is lost by not using their high damage abilities right when they come off cooldown.

Oh I read the ‘guide’ wrong. I thought it was CPC, blood is power and then “Suffer!” instead of deathly swarm. Makes sense now.

Thank you for your answers.

Another, hopefully last question:

You mention that Vampiric aura gets on to 15 different allies. How does it work? The tooltip does not really imply it is possible to get it on more than 5 people/pets.

Does it pulse with a lower CD than the aura (9sec) lasts?

Starfall.6425:

Another, hopefully last question:

You mention that Vampiric aura gets on to 15 different allies. How does it work? The tooltip does not really imply it is possible to get it on more than 5 people/pets.

Does it pulse with a lower CD than the aura (9sec) lasts?

Pulses every 3 seconds. The aura effect lasts 9.

What are your thoughts on Power v. Condi Necro for raiding in general? Which generally will be more useful as an overall note?

Aesa.4819:

Lynnie.7213:

Quick question: does red seeker orbs death/despawn count for the trait Death nova, where you spawn jagged horror on enemy’s death? If it works will be huge! I’ll probably test it out tomorrow.

You get life force from them when they die at least, so I would assume they count as a unit? So that would mean it would spawn a jagged horror, right? I do not know for sure though, let us know about the outcome of your test

Yeah, it will spawn 1 jagger horror per enemy kill every 15 seconds. So in a 8 minutes fight you would get in the best scenario 32 extra minions. Oh man i don’t think it will work. lol

Scootabuser.4915:

OlliX.1705:

Good point. So whichever works the best probably varies a bit from encounter to encounter.

So.. with the Sigil of Earth being a 60% chance to proc, how realistic is it to get all 5 stacks of bleeding with it?

The equation for determining damage for sigil of earth and other chance on crit proc effects is:

Damage = (Time/(((Critchance * Successrate) * InternalCooldown)+((1-(Critchance*successrate)) * SecPerHit)) * Crichance * Sucessrate *Damageperproc

Divide that by time for DPS

So lets assume you have a 100% crit chance and your seconds per hit is .65 with a 30 second rotation

33719 = (30/(((1*.6)2)+((1-(1.6)).65))1*.6*2735

=

~1123 DPS

It’s using a weighted average to determine the average number of times in between ATTEMPTS to proc the sigil, then you multiply it by the chance at a successful attempt, then by the damage

Can you please explain this formular a bit more indepth (and also fix the missing parenthesis)?

My own formular for sigils with internal cooldowns goes like this:
(average seconds per proc without icd) + (icd) = (seconds per proc)
In your case: (1/0.65 × 0.6) + (2) = (2.92) resulting in 2735/2.92=936 DPS.

Since this assumes that I start attacking whenever the sigil goes of cd, this value should still be too high. So I wrote a simulation for this, and the simulated dps over 100.000 hits is ~900 dps.

programm sigil_dps
time = procs = cd = 0
do 100000 times
     time += 0.65
     cd = max(0, cd-0.65)
     if cd == 0 and random() < 0.6
          cd += 2
          procs += 1
     end if
end do
output(procs/time*2735)

Scootabuser.4915:

The equation for determining damage for sigil of earth and other chance on crit proc effects is:

Damage = (Time/(((Critchance * Successrate) * InternalCooldown)+((1-(Critchance*successrate)) * SecPerHit)) * Crichance * Sucessrate *Damageperproc

Divide that by time for DPS

So lets assume you have a 100% crit chance and your seconds per hit is .65 with a 30 second rotation

33719 = (30/(((1*.6)2)+((1-(1.6)).65))1*.6*2735

=

~1123 DPS

It’s using a weighted average to determine the average number of times in between ATTEMPTS to proc the sigil, then you multiply it by the chance at a successful attempt, then by the damage

That damage number seems extremely high. You would have to have 3354 Condition damage to get 2735 damage per proc from an earth sigil. Even if you were able to get that much damage out of each proc, the 1123 DPS number equates to averaging 4.11 stacks of bleeding at from the proc.

This seems highly unlikely given the 0.65 seconds per attack. Your average attack will come 0.325 seconds after the cooldown expires. That means even at a 100% proc rate, your maximum number of stacks would be (10 / 2.325) = 4.3 stacks of bleeding. Your math is showing that dropping to a 60% proc chance is only going to reduce the proc chance down to 95% of the rate you get at 100% chance. That doesn’t even seem reasonable.

That proc at that attack rate should come out closer to 3.25 stacks of bleeding. You may want to revisit that formula.

For reference, my personal sheet values that proc with that attack rate, and your really high damage number at 3.243 stacks of bleeding and 905 DPS.

spoj.9672:

Versus 5 stacks everys 10 seconds with 5 second duration.

This is flawed as the chance on earth is 60% and condition necro does not hit that frequently as in very little multihits, so you are far away from triggering earth every 2 seconds

Erzian.5218:

spoj.9672:

Versus 5 stacks everys 10 seconds with 5 second duration.

This is flawed as the chance on earth is 60% and condition necro does not hit that frequently as in very little multihits, so you are far away from triggering earth every 2 seconds

Assuming we get constantly 3 stacks, with 2000 condi-dmg that would be 430dps.
If we get 3,5 stacks it is 500dps with 2000 condi-dmg.

Assuming 4 constant stacks is already too high I guess. It would mean you have 8 out of 10 seconds cooldown und you need to hit 4 crits within 2 seconds.

So 3,5 stacks with 500dps for 2000 condi-dmg seem reasonable, or?

If you could constantly stay in melee Geomancy would be quite a bit better if we add the RS-proccs. But for me having the freedom to possition with range makes Earth better.

Erzian.5218:

spoj.9672:

Versus 5 stacks everys 10 seconds with 5 second duration.

This is flawed as the chance on earth is 60% and condition necro does not hit that frequently as in very little multihits, so you are far away from triggering earth every 2 seconds

I was only comparing best case scenario. The biggest reason to take earth is range and not wanting to swap weapons.

For power Reaper, what are the recommended runes? Are runes of the Scholar the only way to go or are there decent alternatives? I somewhat dislike the idea of Scholar runes as they don’t really apply to me outside Raids all that much, so I’m looking for ideas.

Atharian.7092:

For power Reaper, what are the recommended runes? Are runes of the Scholar the only way to go or are there decent alternatives? I somewhat dislike the idea of Scholar runes as they don’t really apply to me outside Raids all that much, so I’m looking for ideas.

Strengh (or Rage and Flame Legion) I see as alternatives.
Because you already have 100% crit you basically want runes that give power and ferocity and most of all a flat damage multiplier.. and that is scholar.

Starfall.6425:

Atharian.7092:

For power Reaper, what are the recommended runes? Are runes of the Scholar the only way to go or are there decent alternatives? I somewhat dislike the idea of Scholar runes as they don’t really apply to me outside Raids all that much, so I’m looking for ideas.

Strengh (or Rage and Flame Legion) I see as alternatives.
Because you already have 100% crit you basically want runes that give power and ferocity and most of all a flat damage multiplier.. and that is scholar.

If he’s using Valkyrie he might also be using Wurm runes with Furious Maintenance Oil. Gives him about 240% crit.
And if he doesn’t use Valkyrie, and don’t has the money for Strength, he could even use Ice runes. Also fits more to his question on having a gear set that also can be used outside of Raids. Although I have no exact idea of much the damage difference is between Ice and Strength.

Has anyone tried bombing the vale guardian with 3 necros and epidemic? Bouncing epidemic between the boss and the seeker orbs, if possible, should be completely broken..

Even 2 necros should be able to deal enormous damage to the red guardian with this tactic…

Ok so i havent tried double epidemic on Sabetha yet. But even without it that fight opens up the possibility for seriously broken damage. And this is from the ranged kiter who rarely gets buffs from the group.

I had 19k bleed ticks going on at times. Consistent 11-13k bleeds was easy to maintain. Then 1k chill, 2k torment, 3k poison and 3-4k burns (from jagged horrors + sun spirit).

But this is only possible on Sabetha because she doesnt move and jagged horrors stay alive. Any other fight jagged horrors would miss their attacks too frequently because of boss movement. Also we will lose the burn damage when they fix spirits.

spoj.9672:

Ok so i havent tried double epidemic on Sabetha yet. But even without it that fight opens up the possibility for seriously broken damage. And this is from the ranged kiter who rarely gets buffs from the group.

I had 19k bleed ticks going on at times. Consistent 11-13k bleeds was easy to maintain. Then 1k chill, 2k torment, 3k poison and 3-4k burns (from jagged horrors + sun spirit).

But this is only possible on Sabetha because she doesnt move and jagged horrors stay alive. Any other fight jagged horrors would miss their attacks too frequently because of boss movement. Also we will lose the burn damage when they fix spirits.

I think is about time you share the build that achieves 19k bleed + others conditions.
Finally condi necro is getting love, man. I am really happy. \o/

Aenesthesia.1697:

Has anyone tried bombing the vale guardian with 3 necros and epidemic? Bouncing epidemic between the boss and the seeker orbs, if possible, should be completely broken..

Even 2 necros should be able to deal enormous damage to the red guardian with this tactic…

I tested epidemic to see if i could kill red orbs so we don’t need so many push skills for them, but they do not die to my damage. They take the damage but the “health” isn’t affected. Idk if its intended or not …

Imo, if it was intended they should be receiving IMMUNE.

You can kill red orbs. They are just ridiculously tanky.

Lynnie.7213:

spoj.9672:

Ok so i havent tried double epidemic on Sabetha yet. But even without it that fight opens up the possibility for seriously broken damage. And this is from the ranged kiter who rarely gets buffs from the group.

I had 19k bleed ticks going on at times. Consistent 11-13k bleeds was easy to maintain. Then 1k chill, 2k torment, 3k poison and 3-4k burns (from jagged horrors + sun spirit).

But this is only possible on Sabetha because she doesnt move and jagged horrors stay alive. Any other fight jagged horrors would miss their attacks too frequently because of boss movement. Also we will lose the burn damage when they fix spirits.

I think is about time you share the build that achieves 19k bleed + others conditions.
Finally condi necro is getting love, man. I am really happy. \o/

Im actually considering dropping Reaper for it. The chill is only 1-1.5k and the sacrifices i made to get more bleeds reduced chill uptime. I suspect having tainted shackles and dark path will be more beneficial to the build.

spoj.9672:

Lynnie.7213:

spoj.9672:

Ok so i havent tried double epidemic on Sabetha yet. But even without it that fight opens up the possibility for seriously broken damage. And this is from the ranged kiter who rarely gets buffs from the group.

I had 19k bleed ticks going on at times. Consistent 11-13k bleeds was easy to maintain. Then 1k chill, 2k torment, 3k poison and 3-4k burns (from jagged horrors + sun spirit).

But this is only possible on Sabetha because she doesnt move and jagged horrors stay alive. Any other fight jagged horrors would miss their attacks too frequently because of boss movement. Also we will lose the burn damage when they fix spirits.

I think is about time you share the build that achieves 19k bleed + others conditions.
Finally condi necro is getting love, man. I am really happy. \o/

Im actually considering dropping Reaper for it. The chill is only 1-1.5k and the sacrifices i made to get more bleeds reduced chill uptime. I suspect having tainted shackles and dark path will be more beneficial to the build.

Hmm could be a viable change. Tainted shackle should hit for like 300~400 per tick if target not moving? And Dark path hits for 400ish?

I also would like to see a build that ticks with 11k bleeds and 19k bleeds spike.

This is what i suspect is better:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLRDbkh2QT1N2cDe3Gb4wxhxQNThY4FkdwHsBxfOAOAA-ThSFQB9T9nBpEEZWQAgTAAxU6pk9DaneBf9AASwBBohKDCAcAsbdjuBjP+4jP+4t7u7u7u7WKgFVWB-e

This is exactly what i used:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLRD7khGDNUdD2tJ4djxG4wBLFDm0HIE0Bi7hFxkYUAYAkAA-TBSFAB9r+DAnAAiV+p0+BtrHw3HAgVKBNeBBSBsoyK-e

You dont seem to get much extra poison out of rise + death nova. So probably better to just use CPC. Death Nova is still valuable as it spawns extra Jagged Horrors.

spoj.9672:

This is what i suspect is better:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLRDbkh2QT1N2cDe3Gb4wxhxQNThY4FkdwHsBxfOAOAA-ThSFQB9T9nBpEEZWQAgTAAxU6pk9DaneBf9AASwBBohKDCAcAsbdjuBjP+4jP+4t7u7u7u7WKgFVWB-e

This is exactly what i used:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLRD7khGDNUdD2tJ4djxG4wBLFDm0HIE0Bi7hFxkYUAYAkAA-TBSFAB9r+DAnAAiV+p0+BtrHw3HAgVKBNeBBSBsoyK-e

You dont seem to get much extra poison out of rise + death nova. So probably better to just use CPC. Death Nova is still valuable as it spawns extra Jagged Horrors.

You can only have 2 minions from death nova up at a time (unless alacrity effects the cooldown which I doubt), and those do NOT deal more DPS then even just deathly chill (1000-1400 DPS). Death Magic is trash tier for condition builds.

Here’s the newest iteration of gear, this has a massive boost in DPS from my old build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRQQJArYnM0AN3gV3AmbCs3gliBbaFMDiBx9wiYSMKAMASAA-TRSFQB9T9nBpEEAnAA3t/Q1M9UQletTPgveAANUZApAWUZF-e

Lynnie.7213:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Has anyone tried bombing the vale guardian with 3 necros and epidemic? Bouncing epidemic between the boss and the seeker orbs, if possible, should be completely broken..

Even 2 necros should be able to deal enormous damage to the red guardian with this tactic…

I tested epidemic to see if i could kill red orbs so we don’t need so many push skills for them, but they do not die to my damage. They take the damage but the “health” isn’t affected. Idk if its intended or not …

Imo, if it was intended they should be receiving IMMUNE.

I didnt intend to kill the red orbs.

Just bounce the conditions from the boss to the orbs. Second necro casts epidemic on one orb. Third necro casts epidemic on a second orb.

As a result, conditions on the boss are multiplied times four or, at least, the longer ones are….

quick question for you condi Necros out there. what is the difference in DPS btwn Malice + Earth/Geomancy and Malice + Bursting as your sigils and which set up is the best overall in actual in-game settings? thanks

spoj.9672:

This is what i suspect is better:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLRDbkh2QT1N2cDe3Gb4wxhxQNThY4FkdwHsBxfOAOAA-ThSFQB9T9nBpEEZWQAgTAAxU6pk9DaneBf9AASwBBohKDCAcAsbdjuBjP+4jP+4t7u7u7u7WKgFVWB-e

This is exactly what i used:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLRD7khGDNUdD2tJ4djxG4wBLFDm0HIE0Bi7hFxkYUAYAkAA-TBSFAB9r+DAnAAiV+p0+BtrHw3HAgVKBNeBBSBsoyK-e

You dont seem to get much extra poison out of rise + death nova. So probably better to just use CPC. Death Nova is still valuable as it spawns extra Jagged Horrors.

Why rise? As you said, CPC does more damage, imo.

Did you try and see if you get extra minions when red orb despawn by using death nova?

Lynnie.7213:

Did you try and see if you get extra minions when red orb despawn by using death nova?

I’m 99% sure it doesn’t work. It did seem to proc one from the splits dying though.

Scootabuser.4915:

spoj.9672:

This is what i suspect is better:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLRDbkh2QT1N2cDe3Gb4wxhxQNThY4FkdwHsBxfOAOAA-ThSFQB9T9nBpEEZWQAgTAAxU6pk9DaneBf9AASwBBohKDCAcAsbdjuBjP+4jP+4t7u7u7u7WKgFVWB-e

This is exactly what i used:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLRD7khGDNUdD2tJ4djxG4wBLFDm0HIE0Bi7hFxkYUAYAkAA-TBSFAB9r+DAnAAiV+p0+BtrHw3HAgVKBNeBBSBsoyK-e

You dont seem to get much extra poison out of rise + death nova. So probably better to just use CPC. Death Nova is still valuable as it spawns extra Jagged Horrors.

You can only have 2 minions from death nova up at a time (unless alacrity effects the cooldown which I doubt), and those do NOT deal more DPS then even just deathly chill (1000-1400 DPS). Death Magic is trash tier for condition builds.

Here’s the newest iteration of gear, this has a massive boost in DPS from my old build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRQQJArYnM0AN3gV3AmbCs3gliBbaFMDiBx9wiYSMKAMASAA-TRSFQB9T9nBpEEAnAA3t/Q1M9UQletTPgveAANUZApAWUZF-e

That’s funny because my record while just doing open world is 7 Jagged Horrors just from the GM.

The CD on summoning is 15 seconds but the 30 second expiry is based on health decay with no heals, life siphon and no Flesh of the Master (health decay is based on base health).

With a 5 second bleed based on player damage and duration and ~3 sec attack speed you can see the power.

Was talking about Death Mastery possibly being situationally being meta DPS a week or so ago.. The two main issues are:

1. Mob deaths spawning adds, so MOBs don’t spawn adds on death
2. Being able to constantly fight so heals are being generated.

Odeezee.7362:

quick question for you condi Necros out there. what is the difference in DPS btwn Malice + Earth/Geomancy and Malice + Bursting as your sigils and which set up is the best overall in actual in-game settings? thanks

I use malice + Bursting. For earth/geomancy works you must be constantly attacking or swapping weapons on cooldown.

What Maxzero said about Death Nova jagged horror expiry must be true because when i was using the build you just linked (blood instead of death magic). I could get up to 12k bleeds just from Lich jagged horrors. But it was only when i started using death magic did i start to see huge spikes going above 13k. Without death 10k was consistent. With death magic 12k was consistent. So from my perspective there was a consistent 2k gain with the possibility of much large spikes when rotation went well for extended durations.

And this was all done on Sabetha. The builds probably not nearly as good on Gorseval or Vale Guardian. Simply because of less adds and those bosses move more.