Necromancer
•Putrid Mark: Changed the description to match the actual functionality of this skill.
•Marks: Fixed an issue that caused staff marks to go on full cooldown when aborted/interrupted.
•Shadow Fiend—Haunt: Updated the blind skill fact to display the proper duration.
I was hoping for just the bug fix and THEN to start debates on balancing it. But the tool-tip fix realy seems like the final nail in the coffin…..
I mean Anet rarely reverts/admits changes, they rather make up for it with a buff on something else.
Nevertheless,
- Great job on the bug fix
- I hope to see many good ideas about staff , since the dev team DID open up lately and proved they do care and listen to us
So putrid mark was indeed stealth nerfed. They are only now updating the tool tip for the nerf.
Given that Mark of Blood is being nerfed too, and staff was never overpowered to begin, they really need to up the coefficients on the attacks or something.
I thought Bhawb had refuted this being a stealth nerf and it being a bug?
“Bhawb.7408
[i]Phenn.5167:
It’s really supposed to be fixed? That’s encouraging. The last I heard/read the devs were saying, “Marks are the best skills evar and the ‘bug’ is working as intended.” I’m glad that’s not the case.[/i]
That was in reference to Putrid Mark, and that dev got shot down by another dev who said they have a fix for it and it should be in on the 26th patch (but he wasn’t sure)."
As a idiot mod fused my topic, they still didnt fix the 3 condi “cleanse” nor did they fix the incomplete transfer of conditions, making 1/5 targets immune to the skill (if you hit 5 enemies that is).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Was there any reasoning given to why this change was necessary?
I fail to see how this would be OP except when the opposition is throwing out many conditions? I say if you are playing against a necro you should adjust you game play and be wary of dishing out conditions in the chance they get shoved right back in your face.
As a idiot mod fused my topic, they still didnt fix the 3 condi “cleanse” nor did they fix the incomplete transfer of conditions, making 1/5 targets immune to the skill (if you hit 5 enemies that is).
Well, since it’s 3 conditions per target hit, and there are only 12 conditions in the game, a 5th person hit will never get conditions from this skill (barring any “on-crit” procs). Not so much that 1/5 of the targets are immune, just that there is nothing left to give them.
As a idiot mod fused my topic, they still didnt fix the 3 condi “cleanse” nor did they fix the incomplete transfer of conditions, making 1/5 targets immune to the skill (if you hit 5 enemies that is).
Well, since it’s 3 conditions per target hit, and there are only 12 conditions in the game, a 5th person hit will never get conditions from this skill (barring any “on-crit” procs). Not so much that 1/5 of the targets are immune, just that there is nothing left to give them.
I think it would be better if it duplicated 3 conditions on all 5 targets, as is implied. All 5 targets are hit at the same time, would make sense to me. I guess that is a double edged sword, as that would be less removal, but more damage potential…. possibly bad.
Looking at the skill vs. dagger 4, it is now weaker in terms of cooldown, has a worse side effect (blind vs. nothing), it hits harder, but wasting a condition transfer for damage is pretty silly. Both still transfer a max of 12 conditions with 4+ targets.
My guess is they will look at dagger now with this change and change it back to what it used to be, 1 condition per target.
Deathly Swarm was actually always supposed to be 3 conditions per target, but they had a bug where it only transferred 1 condition and copied two more. It was…weird, to say the least. They fixed the bug and now it works as we have it today.
Also, the Blast finisher (x2) should not be forgotten on Putrid Mark, plus it doesn’t require facing and ignores projectile hate.
As a idiot mod fused my topic, they still didnt fix the 3 condi “cleanse” nor did they fix the incomplete transfer of conditions, making 1/5 targets immune to the skill (if you hit 5 enemies that is).
Well, since it’s 3 conditions per target hit, and there are only 12 conditions in the game, a 5th person hit will never get conditions from this skill (barring any “on-crit” procs). Not so much that 1/5 of the targets are immune, just that there is nothing left to give them.
You know that if you had all (back then 11) condis on you and you hit 5 people, all of them got the full force of em, right?
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
As a idiot mod fused my topic, they still didnt fix the 3 condi “cleanse” nor did they fix the incomplete transfer of conditions, making 1/5 targets immune to the skill (if you hit 5 enemies that is).
Well, since it’s 3 conditions per target hit, and there are only 12 conditions in the game, a 5th person hit will never get conditions from this skill (barring any “on-crit” procs). Not so much that 1/5 of the targets are immune, just that there is nothing left to give them.
You know that if you had all (back then 11) condis on you and you hit 5 people, all of them got the full force of em, right?
Pretty sure only one enemy got the conditions (all of them, including those from allies), but if you have video evidence to support your claim otherwise, I’d be happy to see it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter at all now.
And no, if you had all 11 conditions on you back then, no enemy would get anything because the Blind made you miss.
As a idiot mod fused my topic, they still didnt fix the 3 condi “cleanse” nor did they fix the incomplete transfer of conditions, making 1/5 targets immune to the skill (if you hit 5 enemies that is).
Well, since it’s 3 conditions per target hit, and there are only 12 conditions in the game, a 5th person hit will never get conditions from this skill (barring any “on-crit” procs). Not so much that 1/5 of the targets are immune, just that there is nothing left to give them.
You know that if you had all (back then 11) condis on you and you hit 5 people, all of them got the full force of em, right?
Pretty sure only one enemy got the conditions (all of them, including those from allies), but if you have video evidence to support your claim otherwise, I’d be happy to see it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter at all now.
And no, if you had all 11 conditions on you back then, no enemy would get anything because the Blind made you miss.
Well true but at least youd get em cleansed, also look up the BoC necro tournament vids.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Was there any reasoning given to why this change was necessary?
I fail to see how this would be OP except when the opposition is throwing out many conditions? I say if you are playing against a necro you should adjust you game play and be wary of dishing out conditions in the chance they get shoved right back in your face.
It used to remove every single condition off you, and any ally in the radius, and transfer all of those conditions to enemies inside the mark radius.
Just having a full self-wipe of conditions on the CD that Putrid Mark is is actually very strong. But being able to remove that many conditions on that low of a CD was just too strong.
So putrid mark was indeed stealth nerfed. They are only now updating the tool tip for the nerf.
Given that Mark of Blood is being nerfed too, and staff was never overpowered to begin, they really need to up the coefficients on the attacks or something.
This has always been a problem with almost every balance change. They don’t take a holistic approach.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Inscribe a mark that transfers conditions from yourself to foes when they trigger it.
So much for my AOE condition removal. RIP a really great group utility once and for all.
I know the new condi removal function for ourselves is a big issue for this, but the group removal is a massive hit on this skill and effectively kills a large chunk off of necro group utility, of which we already had so little to begin with compared to other classes. It’s little things like this that are slowly whittling our class down to nothing.
DS can’t soak hits anymore, staff can’t cleanse condis from allies, plague signet still bugs out and won’t pull condis reliably, our well protections (traited) do not stack, our rez signet has a very small radius long cast time and ridiculously long recharge making it unreliable in anything other than small fights and even then situational, one of our biggest (group)defensive mechanics is our blinds and they are pretty pointless on bosses….our only saving grace is the revamped life transfer heal which I will admit is a whole lot better than it used to be and is nice to bring along. But healing alone in this game is a poor support tool.
Our list of reasons to make it desirable to bring necros along for much of anything is growing shorter with each patch.
Well at least they could have picked one of the two nerfs, still be a cleanse for everyone in in but only for 3 or give us our proper full cleanse we are used to that transfers all our conditions to all enemies hit (thats is ofc unless the main target/person to trigger dodges into it).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
As a idiot mod fused my topic, they still didnt fix the 3 condi “cleanse” nor did they fix the incomplete transfer of conditions, making 1/5 targets immune to the skill (if you hit 5 enemies that is).
Well, since it’s 3 conditions per target hit, and there are only 12 conditions in the game, a 5th person hit will never get conditions from this skill (barring any “on-crit” procs). Not so much that 1/5 of the targets are immune, just that there is nothing left to give them.
I think it would be better if it duplicated 3 conditions on all 5 targets, as is implied. All 5 targets are hit at the same time, would make sense to me. I guess that is a double edged sword, as that would be less removal, but more damage potential…. possibly bad.
I’ll take the full cleanse over just 3 conditions any time.
You know that if you had all (back then 11) condis on you and you hit 5 people, all of them got the full force of em, right?
Before the nerf you could only transfer 9 condition from yourself: torment didn’t exist yet, it missed when blinded and of course it wouldn’t work if you’re feared.
However, you could cleanse all 11 conditions from your allies.
What is not true though is that you could hit all targets with all conditions. Everything was transfered to just one enemy.
Before the nerf you could only transfer 9 condition from yourself: torment didn’t exist yet, it missed when blinded and of course it wouldn’t work if you’re feared.
However, you could cleanse all 11 conditions from your allies.
What is not true though is that you could hit all targets with all conditions. Everything was transfered to just one enemy.
You could transfer Fear. The mark just had to be placed before you got feared and triggered when you were. It was (and still is) the most hilarious answer to thieves stealing from us.
I just think it is sad that decisions based around SPVP had to go and ruin one of our best PVE utilities. I realize PVE is not a big part of this game for most of us, but I still would like people to look at me in a group setting and know I have their back for removal like they would a guard. That just isn’t the case anymore, and it bothers me.
One day if they ever do craft more difficult content, we will wish we had more PVE group utilities like this.
a) 3-5-full cleanse on self , (per target hit)
b) 3-5-full cleanse on allies within circle , (per target hit)
c) 3-5-full transfer to enemy , (per target hit)
This are the boundaries I see them choosing from. Maybe make it like dagger (3 condi trans) but it works for 5 allies/enemies hit. Or like said before, go along the selfish full cleanse route..
You know that if you had all (back then 11) condis on you and you hit 5 people, all of them got the full force of em, right?
Before the nerf you could only transfer 9 condition from yourself: torment didn’t exist yet, it missed when blinded and of course it wouldn’t work if you’re feared.
However, you could cleanse all 11 conditions from your allies.
What is not true though is that you could hit all targets with all conditions. Everything was transfered to just one enemy.
Bleed, Burning, Immob, Confusion, Cripple, Chill, Fear, Poison, Vuln, Weakness, Blind – all of them were removed from you on trigger, yes 1 of these could stop the actual physical damage and transfer, but not the cleanse and if you had the rest it applied the conditions to every target hit by it (not sure if it worked with greater marks since i think we had a bug report about it but i know it did normally). Hell that was the best use of PM in pve, dropping it on gravelings and slimes and risen when they stacked up stuff with you in dungeons.
Also my vote goes for either 3 pre target hit form every ally to each enemy in it and from you or full transfer from you (if its to 1 enemy or all 5 i really dont care if its full transfer).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
…and if you had the rest it applied the conditions to every target hit by it
Definitely not. I’m 100% sure, with or without Greater Marks, it was just one target.
And blindness made the mark miss, therefore the whole cleanse wouldn’t work. Drarnor is right about fear and a precast mark though (but I can’t remeber ever doing that..).
…and if you had the rest it applied the conditions to every target hit by it
Definitely not. I’m 100% sure, with or without Greater Marks, it was just one target.
And blindness made the mark miss, therefore the whole cleanse wouldn’t work. Drarnor is right about fear and a precast mark though (but I can’t remeber ever doing that..).
Nope, watch any of the tournaments with necros, all targets within aoe on trigger got all condis applied to them and no, blind prevents skills from hitting a target, not from working on you (it functions as a targetless cast).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
- Wanna come with us for the last fractal?
- Which boss?
- Mai Trin. So you can clean us with your necro.
/long explain how we got nerfed to oblivion/
- Oh, have you got a guardian?
- Wanna come with us for the last fractal?
- Which boss?
- Mai Trin. So you can clean us with your necro.
/long explain how we got nerfed to oblivion/
- Oh, have you got a guardian?
PvE in a nutshell.
You still have WOP… on an incredibly long cooldown for 5 total removal if they all get cast in the 5 seconds the well is up.
Aternatively you can get fancy and use plauge signet to pull all the bleeds and things onto you, and use DS removal, dagger removal, and staff removal as needed with the WOP. Just don’t use the active on PS and you will keep pulling.
AND you can add in some pets with condi removal per 10 to pull the conditions back off, of course your signet will pull them back off the pets onto you……
There is really lots of fun condi-moving with necro…. its just sad the heavy hitter is gone. A bad timing on the PS pulse can literally kill you.
I’m disappointed that one of the only decent Necromancer team support options got nuked from orbit like this.
I’m insulted they went about it the way they did with the stealth nerf and tooltip “fix”.
It insinuates that they think we are stupid and won’t notice when one of the few team support options we had other than “loldps” gets gutted, no, not gutted, completely removed.
This is why the Devs get so much contempt in this section of the forums; they went about this in a contemptible manner.
That’s how playing other classes is starting to feel versus playing Necromancer. Nice to see from the upcoming balance preview that my decision to swap to Mesmer months ago was well justified.
That’s how playing other classes is starting to feel versus playing Necromancer. Nice to see from the upcoming balance preview that my decision to swap to Mesmer months ago was well justified.
Just a sidenote. Many months ago i get bored with condi builds so i swaped to dagger / warhorn power builds. And i was like “whaaaaaaaat i can do da damagez?!” … Soon after i created a warrior, running around, leveling and when it felt at lvl30 that i outdamage my necro … I cried inside. Im overwhelmed of shame that i still like this class for no reason.
Putrid Mark is another one of those changes that really puzzles me as to the thinking of the developers. That along with the change coming in December I must frequent a different set of forums from what they do.
Or maybe I just glossed over the forum and missed the numerous posts by other classes asking to nerf staff Necro’s as they are really overpowered. I have yet to see such a post and I would really like to know the thinking behind the changes. For me I don’t think that PM was an overpowered skill, its a very situational skill that helped us provide a support role that at the moment our class is lacking.
The Necro class is feeling like a pretty selfish class in group play, we have little to bring to the table that really helps out the group compared to other classes. What we do have is either on long timers or hinders the group i.e. light field on WoB as just one example.
If the aim is to destroy our range by making staff useless then give us something that will help us be sustainable in close quarters. Siphons at the moment are a joke and if you expect a cloth class to be front line like Warriors and Guardians then give us the tools so we can achieve that role.
…and if you had the rest it applied the conditions to every target hit by it
Definitely not. I’m 100% sure, with or without Greater Marks, it was just one target.
And blindness made the mark miss, therefore the whole cleanse wouldn’t work. Drarnor is right about fear and a precast mark though (but I can’t remeber ever doing that..).
Nope, watch any of the tournaments with necros, all targets within aoe on trigger got all condis applied to them and no, blind prevents skills from hitting a target, not from working on you (it functions as a targetless cast).
Would you mind posting a link with timestamp?
I watched some old footage of mine to find a moment when I cast Putrid while blinded, no success so far…
Btw those old clips confirmed what I already knew for sure: everything got transfered to just one target.
Always been one recipient target from my memory. In fact, there was a bit of an issue a while back shortly before the stealth nerf where Putrid Mark was messing up the total number of stacks in pve (possibly wvw too) if there was someone hostile to both the caster and the chosen target/trigger within the transfer effect radius.
Given the timing of that bug thread and what happened shortly after it feels like they took the lazy way out of fixing that bug.
messing up the total number of stacks in pve (possibly wvw too)
that reminds me, today I saw a warrior in WvW who was afk apparently. I didn’t kill him but occasionally drop Mark of Blood on him just to check if he would react. Here’s the twist: like 2 out of 5 times I did that MoB only applied 2 stacks of bleeding, there were no other skills, no Barbed Precision or other conditions involved. The icon under his portait said 2 and the damage was 2xx/tick, the next mark said 3 stacks and 3xx damage… then later another mark: 2 stacks.
Is this a warrior mechanic that I’m not aware of? Could anyone else keep an eye out for that?
- around 3 min with the fight against the thief, twice he removes condis from self when blinded by dropping putrid on the enemy ( i think it was once on thieves guild). There are other vids of it too in wvwvw roam but thats the one from the guru thread from like 5 months ago talking about thief blinds.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Umm… there is one Putrid Mark around the 3 min mark… but there is no other condition on the necro besides blindness which he “cleanses” by missing with the scepter auto attack before the mark gets triggered.
Umm… there is one Putrid Mark around the 3 min mark… but there is no other condition on the necro besides blindness which he “cleanses” by missing with the scepter auto attack before the mark gets triggered.
Around the 3 min mark not exactly 3 min, just watch it. Either way you can still test it by using mark of blood while blinded, the skill misses enemies but its regen goes off because the skill has 2 components (just as every transfer), the offensive and the self effect (same applies to corruption skills with bip having the condition to actually target someone with the projectile it shoots off for it to apply the self bleed so (apply 10 might to self, shoot projectile, if targeted apply self bleed 2, on hit apply 2 bleed).
BTW wvwvw counts as pvp for bleed reductions in 99% of cases.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
BTW wvwvw counts as pvp for bleed reductions in 99% of cases.
?
Remember pvp nerf, Mob from 3->2 yeah, buggy nature of wvwvw (same thing with dhuumfire from time to time).
*btw i really got no time and am too lazy to roll trough youtube videos, if you wanna inquisition my statements (which i wont blame you for being scientific by itself), go trough em yourself. If not i think that by the run line of me being correct on things in the past (from DS, Fear functions, Mark triggers, Dagger > Axe, WH being amazing, how a lot of cond durations dont uptate, transformation bugs, etc) I think that you could just once put some blind faith in this one.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Interesting... didn’t know that. But the MoB nerf isn’t live yet, is it? And 2 glitches like that within a minute?
Happens post patch, with a lot of other little "tests" things *cough my rangers sun spirit applying 2 1/4 instead of 3 3/4 second burns in wvwvw*... i think that the people that implemented the wvwvw map implemented other little things from the test realms. Thank god that its like 1/99 times. Might be enemy condition reduction trough but a lot of people reported that and complained before proceeding to whoop buttocks.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Great. They’re like “Oh, necros always use staff. let’s just nerf it til they pick other options”. Of course, without realizing that our other swap items are pretty useless anyways… but that’s what you get for balancing crap around that other mode.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
