Guild Wars 2

Phenn.5167:

This is how the Weakening Shroud nerf evolved:

1. Initial proposal was to increase the CD to match the /D skillfact—the Devs felt that Necros had too good an uptime on Weakness.
2. (Rightful) complaints about the change turning WS into a RNG skill.
3. Devs conceded the change was misguided, instead removed the ICD and decreased the duration and stacks of Bleed/Weakness.
4. When (rightful) complaints came this time, they were shot down by good ol’ Jon saying, “With 100% ConD duration and Near to Death, this is a 57% uptime on AoE Weakness, which is borderline OP.”

So there you have it: A trait balanced around an incredibly specific situation (I’m unaware of any build that has both 100% ConD duration AND NtD), and then called OP in that incredibly specific situation.

Never mind that a Thief with a SB can maintain perma-Weakness with 15 traitpoints and SB’s own self-combos.

But hey, we Necros get to sit on the bench with the Thiefs and commiserate. You know—the whole misery and company thing.

Basicly because weakening shroud helped 100% condition duration terrormancers everyone else including berserk builds got shafted.

jalmari.3906:

Phenn.5167:

This is how the Weakening Shroud nerf evolved:

1. Initial proposal was to increase the CD to match the /D skillfact—the Devs felt that Necros had too good an uptime on Weakness.
2. (Rightful) complaints about the change turning WS into a RNG skill.
3. Devs conceded the change was misguided, instead removed the ICD and decreased the duration and stacks of Bleed/Weakness.
4. When (rightful) complaints came this time, they were shot down by good ol’ Jon saying, “With 100% ConD duration and Near to Death, this is a 57% uptime on AoE Weakness, which is borderline OP.”

So there you have it: A trait balanced around an incredibly specific situation (I’m unaware of any build that has both 100% ConD duration AND NtD), and then called OP in that incredibly specific situation.

Never mind that a Thief with a SB can maintain perma-Weakness with 15 traitpoints and SB’s own self-combos.

But hey, we Necros get to sit on the bench with the Thiefs and commiserate. You know—the whole misery and company thing.

Basicly because weakening shroud helped 100% condition duration terrormancers everyone else including berserk builds got shafted.

Weakening shroud was crazy strong ever since the weakness change, but yes the nerf was more aimed at condi and power took the hit too.

Anyway Nemesis, i don’t want to keep going back and forth. Play around with the changes and see how it is. You’re a strong player so im sure you’ll adapt. I just want the skill ceiling increased for our class again like it used to be, that’s all. Condi or the class we love wont die this easily.

We were lucky weakening shroud wasn’t heavily nerfed when they changed weakness. Really everyone upset about the change should be thankful you can now have it every time you enter DS, because the duration on weakening shrouds weakness could have been reduced a long time ago. This could be solid for dancer builds now.

Infect.2738:

jalmari.3906:

Phenn.5167:

This is how the Weakening Shroud nerf evolved:

1. Initial proposal was to increase the CD to match the /D skillfact—the Devs felt that Necros had too good an uptime on Weakness.
2. (Rightful) complaints about the change turning WS into a RNG skill.
3. Devs conceded the change was misguided, instead removed the ICD and decreased the duration and stacks of Bleed/Weakness.
4. When (rightful) complaints came this time, they were shot down by good ol’ Jon saying, “With 100% ConD duration and Near to Death, this is a 57% uptime on AoE Weakness, which is borderline OP.”

So there you have it: A trait balanced around an incredibly specific situation (I’m unaware of any build that has both 100% ConD duration AND NtD), and then called OP in that incredibly specific situation.

Never mind that a Thief with a SB can maintain perma-Weakness with 15 traitpoints and SB’s own self-combos.

But hey, we Necros get to sit on the bench with the Thiefs and commiserate. You know—the whole misery and company thing.

Basicly because weakening shroud helped 100% condition duration terrormancers everyone else including berserk builds got shafted.

I just want the skill ceiling increased for our class again like it used to be, that’s all.

I think you have a romanticized idea of what the class should be while people are running around with diamond skin, stealth and other poorly implemented mechanics/traits. I love competition, I love a good fight and if things continue to progress as they have with the mechanics I mentioned above, I’m not gonna think twice when they introduce another overpowered and skilless trait/ability.

I’m going to thank anet kindly and abuse it until another hardcounter is created.

The nerfs generally makes no since above all. Some argue that the nerf in damage was necessary but what prospective are you saying in as. If you’re speaking in terms of Meta builds then that would be some what understandable. But for those who does not run/use Meta see it as a potential nerf. Others views such as Necromancer in Team Play and Individual play also have different views. Personally i think in Team Play it may not effect them as much in terms of damage (assuming that they run Meta build) and survival as they play in Teams your weakness is compensated with your Team Players. As a individual player there are a lot of nerfs that maybe consider (If not using Meta). As most of the nerf are felt necessary because of Meta builds. Which then make non-meta suffer along with Meta which seems to be the problem on top other classes getting improved condition removal just seems to bog down the condition overall.

But if you look at the necromancer as a whole it is a potential nerf that we received. Anet just buffed something that necromancer was good at to begin with then nerfing it down if not worse (some may say) which just left necromancer where we left of whilst other classes are getting different nerfs/buffs.

Sepreh.5924:

My worry is that the nerf to Enfeebling Blood is absolutely going to kill my berserker necro. It was the main source of defense for this build and I can only imagine how quickly I will get burst down now.

Well if it makes it any easier for you…you werent the only one using it for self defense in a power build :/

Might as well run A/F D/D and pick up dagger mastery or ritual of protection. Can’t say the new weakening shroud is worth using for power necros anymore when it comes to self defense.

Enfeeble from two stacks 10sec bleed and 6sec weakness down to 1 bleed for 6 sec and 2sec weakness. omfg… a 2/3 nerf would have been enough. useless, but hey, there are soo many alternatives for 10 points…

I agree that weakining shroud needed a nerf, but i think this is too much… i mean 2 sec? Unless you time perfectly for a burst, it will be useless. I think 3 or 4 sec would have been better.

And i think that the necro isnt weak, its more that many of his skills contradict each other (e.g. ds and life siphons), and other skills not reliable enough to compesate our lack of mobility (mainly or ways to stick to an enemy).

I…well… I am not impressed with the changes. More than that I’m flabbergasted by the LACK of changes. So many things need work. I’m certain Anet is scared to death of buffing us out of fear that we will somehow get out of control. I can understand the sentiment, but when you can’t name one thing we can do better than another profession something is wrong. We are clearly only average in attrition situations and even then, most builds can opt to leave the fight if they don’t care to die. Be it in duels or small 3v3 etc type skirmishes.

More than anything I’m just confused. If Anet has some super secret special changes up their sleeves, great, but every time there is “something in the works” it ends up being paltry compared to some of the drastic changes (see diamond skin) that other professions get. I’d really love to see a Necro gameplan/roadmap/etc…

All I can say is that Anet really has no clue on building up this Necromancer class. When they introduce the game, they said u can play any kind of build in each classes, that makes you comfortable. Which means, you can be a zerk, condi, or so.. but now they are pushing us into 1 corner… sustain… But our sustain doesn’t really work fine at all!
okay, fine, but somehow they still messed up with every of their patch.
They nerf lots of our good build, and push the blame to EPIDEMIC.

If you look back to the 10th DEC skill balance preview post last month, they had mentioned lots of times that because of EPIDEMIC, they have to reduce some of the skill time, condi stack and stuffs… BUT NOT ALL NECRO RUNS EPIDEMIC… PLS DONT ASSUME!!!

and now they’ve really messed up the whole class… Anet y not just remove this class totally from the game and save your time to focus on your favourite child like warrior and guardian?

You guys said you are listening to the players feedback…C’mon!!! Lies!!!

HaseKent.1843:

All I can say is that Anet really has no clue on building up this Necromancer class.

I share that feeling. First I had faith in anet and there were some nice thing changed and improved, but when you read the dev posts – I’m glad you guys post here – you can read between the lines and I dont think there is a plan or vision for this class. It feels like a leftover from the first gw ;-( I doubt that there will be diversity any time soon. Maybe in 1-2 years, but right now it’s up and down – like the stock markets :/ at least I have more faith in anets balancing team than in traders ^^

the only ones i have faith in when it comes to anet is the art team

Bawi.9541:

the only ones i have faith in when it comes to anet is the art team

they have very very bad fashion designer team, for both armor and weapon… they even reuse their existing armor set and sell in TP….
compare to those game which doesn’t even prioritise in fashion, other games do better job.

the only team I have faith in Anet is their in-game sales team.. they are very good at selling their in game product. like I said above, they can re-use the existing armor, add some flames and sell it in TP… Great Job!!!

and the most amazing part is, there’s still lots of players bought it!!!

HaseKent.1843:

and the most amazing part is, there’s still lots of players bought it!!!

Because at least the light armor was amazing

Bhawb.7408:

HaseKent.1843:

and the most amazing part is, there’s still lots of players bought it!!!

Because at least the light armor was amazing

haha , in some ways, yea, its amazing…

so… I made a necromancer based on Nemesis hybrid build.. literally jus finished gets the gear and now im reading how hes bashing the necro…

…. hello mesmer

I keep thinking that the devs have a well-thought-out plan behind these changes over time, and that one day we’ll all have an “aha” moment when where it’ll all click and the Necro will be in a great place.

And then we get patches like this where the devs let us know full in advance that they were screwing our class over.

Oh well. I’ll keep hoping it’s an elaborate double-bluff.

i was just a few rings away from getting the hybrid and conditionmancer finished and nemesis is leaving the game….. maybe its time to try out battlefield 4.

Just to add to what Nemesis said: Corrupt Boon also got hammered since Dhuumfire.
In the entirety of this game, all I have seen for every patch as far as Necros are concerned are multiple large nerfs, bug fixes, one or two “real” buffs, and more bugs that end up remaining permanent since they’re “working as intended.”

because Anet ASSUME, there are multiple necros running around and equip with EPIDEMIC with them, and spread all the love around…

Please always refer to this thread where they did mention quite few times bout few necros running together with epidemic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview-Updated-Nov-6th/page/28#post3153495

that’s y we get all the nerfs…

but too bad… in the real case, its totally the other way round… not all necros use epidemic, and not all necros are condi build…

too bad.. necros are the long lost child that has already been forgotten by the parents… what a sad wintersday…

Azure.8670:

so… I made a necromancer based on Nemesis hybrid build.. literally jus finished gets the gear and now im reading how hes bashing the necro…

…. hello mesmer

PvE necromancer didn’t change… hybrid is as it always was, actually it got buffed a bit since i made the hybrid…

It’s the PvP necromancer that i have a problem with… as much as i tried over and over and over again to get involved in PvP.
As much as i kill people and almost never die… PvP is just unbalance and dead…

I’ll just stick around PvE until a new game comes along…

Try not to be to upset nemesis, I love your builds and the work you put in for the necro community and I would hate to see you leave completely. Maybe take a break for awhile and see where we stand after the next major balance patch. Regardless of what you do tho thanks for all your contributions to the necro community

For me personally this patch isn’t to bad aside from the nerf to mark of Blood which really hurts in WvW and further proves how broken duumfire is. The changes to weakening shroud (PvE wise anyway) and vital persistence open up more options for deathshroud users. The reduced cooldown on repears protection when paired with well of power finally gives us a defence against the ping pong effect and Chill of death can now benefit any build while fitting with the attrition Idea. Overall I find there is more to like then hate.

Its things however like Diamond skin (which all but kills off solo-roaming necromancers), Anets refusal to deal with duumfire while nerfing our dmg and the mess that is the blood tree (Or any non-well based sustain in general) that have got me infuriated. So many Good ideas made by the community which with the exception of the Weakening shroud fix/nerf have largely been ignored. Honestly I can see why your frustrated nemesis. But I’d say give it 1 more balance patch. I am

Nemesis.8593:

Azure.8670:

so… I made a necromancer based on Nemesis hybrid build.. literally jus finished gets the gear and now im reading how hes bashing the necro…

…. hello mesmer

PvE necromancer didn’t change… hybrid is as it always was, actually it got buffed a bit since i made the hybrid…

It’s the PvP necromancer that i have a problem with… as much as i tried over and over and over again to get involved in PvP.
As much as i kill people and almost never die… PvP is just unbalance and dead…

I’ll just stick around PvE until a new game comes along…

Bro think back to last wintersday (well a bit before), guess/remember who was the person that said dont go into pvp with anything but a thief or guardian or you will hate a-net.

Andele.1306:

Nemesis.8593:

Azure.8670:

so… I made a necromancer based on Nemesis hybrid build.. literally jus finished gets the gear and now im reading how hes bashing the necro…

…. hello mesmer

PvE necromancer didn’t change… hybrid is as it always was, actually it got buffed a bit since i made the hybrid…

It’s the PvP necromancer that i have a problem with… as much as i tried over and over and over again to get involved in PvP.
As much as i kill people and almost never die… PvP is just unbalance and dead…

I’ll just stick around PvE until a new game comes along…

Bro think back to last wintersday (well a bit before), guess/remember who was the person that said dont go into pvp with anything but a thief or guardian or you will hate a-net.

I remember… but we did had a place until now, not a very fun place but…
We did well in 1v1 vs 6 out of 8 classes as long as they remained to fight… and we died vs 2/3 90% of the time with no chance of escaping.

So at least we were good for something… now we no longer do well vs 6… we barely can kill 5 out of 8… die even faster vs multiple…

I just did a bit of PvP, died twice, killed 9 players… but they were so beneath my skill level, it’s disgusting…
Not only does it anger me when i see that two kittens, that just started the game last week, spam 3 buttons and can kill me… every time i kill someone, it’s because i clearly saw how bad he was… and even when they make the most stupid mistakes ever, i don’t always get the chance to finish them off, because they run away…

So there’s that… but i am thinking about the rest of you… the necromancers that are at the skill level of the people i am fighting, you know… 1-2 week old necromancers… vs 1-2 week old other class, i feel sorry for you… for them… for the casuals…

I refuse to play this game even if i am owning, i am owning because i severely outskill… and it’s only a matter of time before i find people my skill level and then it won’t be a fair fight, since i am fighting with a handicap…

Nemesis.8953

Not only does it anger me when i see that two kittens, that just started the game last week, spam 3 buttons and can kill me… every time i kill someone, it’s because i clearly saw how bad he was… and even when they make the most stupid mistakes ever, i don’t always get the chance to finish them off, because they run away…

This x1000. As much as I want to say “it’s just a game”, when you put hours upon hours into something, try to learn the mechanics in and out, record and review gameplay to see where you went wrong then modify your play style based on it, etc, it is infuriating when you come up against a class with a broken mechanic or a class that is a hard counter to the necro and get rolled.

I am not near the skill level of nemesis but am not terrible either. I love the power necro play style. But getting face rolled by someone who is invisible 90% of the time or has multiple CC or kitten, even a build of our own class that can condi burst more quickly than I can power burst in a full berserker build is just infuriating

HaseKent.1843:

When they introduce the game, they said u can play any kind of build in each classes, that makes you comfortable. Which means, you can be a zerk, condi, or so..

Thats what i thought. I was thinking it was going to be like the AMAZING “talent” system of Rift, sure the rest of the game was a bit lackluster but the talent system was and still is my favorite in any game i have played.

It is/was (havent played it in a while) amazing, you could make a Rogue/Thief and have it as a “tank” or “healer” you could pretty much do what ever role you wanted with what ever class you wanted. I was hoping the game was going to be a mix between that and Guild Wars 1 Talent system where you could pick a 2nd class and gain more skills and such.

In my opinion, they went away from that into the casual area and just dumbed it down as much as they could. Which is a real shame.

Funny how not one dev has commented on how monumental of a blunder this is.

Just sayin’.

Kitedyou.1720:

Funny how not one dev has commented on how monumental of a blunder this is.

Just sayin’.

Its simple – They dont care.

Kitedyou.1720:

Funny how not one dev has commented on how monumental of a blunder this is.

Just sayin’.

They haven’t commented on any of the other blunders from before. Like removing the DS ability to survive insta-kills. So they are being fairly consistent.

Do you guys read the warrior forums?

They know that the nerf didn’t touch them: that their whining worked. That they juggle their traits and do the same damage with the same builds as before and that, contrary o descriptions, skill animations aren’t really different than before.

Now they are whining about rifle warriors.

Necromancer damage were never the problem. Conditions were never the problem.

The problem was always and will be always that melee brutes don’t like skirmisher characters and prefer to face others in melee where they have a built in advantage.

The end.

It’s a shame that ths class can’t have any surviability skills because of this, but it will be fun to watch OP warriors whinge about OP warriors countering them.

Eventually there will only be warriors versus warriors, and everyone will be happy.

nekretaal.6485:

Do you guys read the warrior forums?

They know that the nerf didn’t touch them: that their whining worked. That they juggle their traits and do the same damage with the same builds as before and that, contrary o descriptions, skill animations aren’t really different than before.

Now they are whining about rifle warriors.

Necromancer damage were never the problem. Conditions were never the problem.

The problem was always and will be always that melee brutes don’t like skirmisher characters and prefer to face others in melee where they have a built in advantage.

The end.

It’s a shame that ths class can’t have any surviability skills because of this, but it will be fun to watch OP warriors whinge about OP warriors countering them.

This so much. Same with Guardians.

i got quite a lot of guild mates playing heavies who constantly whine about dem evil conditions and how they kill them in a split second in WvW. Despite having insane amount of cleanses and all this broken -cond.duration-stuff they still manage to cry and whine about necs.
For some fukcing reason they just expect that they are supposed to be completely free of conditions most of the time so they can mash their #1 undisturbed and at the same time theyre wondering why we barely have any necros/engis anymore but more than 50% heavies in our guildzerg.

But of course it’s never the warrs/guards and boons in general that are OP…

Kitedyou.1720:

Funny how not one dev has commented on how monumental of a blunder this is.

Just sayin’.

They won’t. It is there typical mode of operation to drop a crap patch then hide till they announce the next release announcement in hopes the new set of lies distracts us from the last set. I’ll take my next infraction now…

It’s simply amazing how clueless Anet has become in terms of class balance.

I truly believe they want every one to roll warriors.

I’ve give up hope on the class I have played since release. They haven’t gotten it right yet history would prove it an exercise in futility to think they will ever get it right.

Add into the fact now with the new release of ascended gear and it being soulbound – they are pretty much forcing most player’s to pick one character and stick with it as the time investment it far to great to gear multiple character’s now.

Before this I would just go to another toon and wait it out. But, I really don’t think I’ll be coming back to my necro at this point and it’s a shame.

Grind wars has now become something just to pass time until something better comes out.

Nemesis.8593:

PS: they gave us damage, when we asked for attrition and survivability vs focus fire… and now… now they nerfed our damage so many times, that we actually have less damage then before “the buffs”… especially if you chose not to use Dhuumfire…

Killed all build diversity… killed the class…

I’m out…

I’ve been out for a few months, now. Aside from the endless PvP balancing, I was most disappointed that all the gems I purchased with real money went toward turning the game into a giant grind instead of creating much new RPG content. Lost Shores is not really done and is the only substantial new area, IMO. The rest of what was released is either PvP or very grindy with a short story progression.

I am playing other RPGs, instead.