Guild Wars 2

Just wanted to see how people feel after the Curse PVP tournament. And what the general Opinion is on where the Necro stands in PVP compared to other classes!

From the tournament here are some of the teams that made it past the first elimination round

We Are Extremely Ugly – No Necros
Team Paragon – No Necros
Thats So Pish – No Necros
Team Idle – No Necros
Royal Legion – No Necros
Vengenace of the Fallen – No Necros
AKGL Phantom – No Necros

There isn’t much to say. Necromancers have no place in tpvp right now. I have almost 700 hours on my Necro pvp and pve and quite frankly, i’m shelving her and playing Guardian until we get some much needed attention. Playing other classes has made me realize how useless some of our traits and utilities really are. Reanimator (useless), Spiteful Vigor (should give vigor not retal), Target the Weak (useless in curses tree), Dark Armor (useless), Quickening Thirst(who uses this?), Deathly Invigoration (weak), and all siphon skills need to be looked at.

Unfortunately we’re just average at every role. mediocre bunker, mediocre burst, mediocre healing, flat out bad roamers, and mediocre conditions because its almost all bleed damage.

Has nothing to do with how good we are in PvP, and everything to do with how people feel we are, and the current meta. Right now the meta is heavily towards tons of condi removal, which makes it harder for necros to do well.

Bhawb.7408:

Has nothing to do with how good we are in PvP, and everything to do with how people feel we are, and the current meta. Right now the meta is heavily towards tons of condi removal, which makes it harder for necros to do well.

You’re getting all meta about semantics.

Mausser.7530:

From the tournament here are some of the teams that made it past the first elimination round

We Are Extremely Ugly – No Necros
Team Paragon – No Necros
Thats So Pish – No Necros
Team Idle – No Necros
Royal Legion – No Necros
Vengenace of the Fallen – No Necros
AKGL Phantom – No Necros

There isn’t much to say. Necromancers have no place in tpvp right now. I have almost 700 hours on my Necro pvp and pve and quite frankly, i’m shelving her and playing Guardian until we get some much needed attention. Playing other classes has made me realize how useless some of our traits and utilities really are. Reanimator (useless), Spiteful Vigor (should give vigor not retal), Target the Weak (useless in curses tree), Dark Armor (useless), Quickening Thirst(who uses this?), Deathly Invigoration (weak), and all siphon skills need to be looked at.

Unfortunately we’re just average at every role. mediocre bunker, mediocre burst, mediocre healing, flat out bad roamers, and mediocre conditions because its almost all bleed damage.

Lol the best reaction xD

lol… I never paid much attention to the EU scene. I guess there’s not much condi cleave teams in EU?

Bhawb.7408:

Has nothing to do with how good we are in PvP, and everything to do with how people feel we are, and the current meta. Right now the meta is heavily towards tons of condi removal, which makes it harder for necros to do well.

Since nobody mastered deathshroud, people have to rely on their feelings…
But there are other options besides conditions. Maybe.
Powermancer doesn’t rely on condis and packs some serious omph but suffers from chronic necro issues. No in combat mobility and a pretty hard time recovering from burst. In that regard he is like a 100b warri minus the mobility.
Then there are hybrid builds – thinking lettucemode axe, terror stuff. That are pretty fun to play and really efficient vs boon heavy builds, which are part of the meta. But they also suffer from the same problems as the power stuff.
And then comes every other of the “many viable necro builds” (apart from standard condi builds ofc).
If necro had at least better sustain you might see more of them but with the way the class plays right now, it is inferior to so many other classes and needs some serious tweaks or some really deep hidden build synergy, nobody found till now.

Its easy to see why necros are shunned. No mobility, everyone always brings condition clears out the wazoo, our sustain is a joke, our bunker builds are only average at best, our burst is mediocre, very little access to boons, our team support is a joke, we’re always targeted first because of how easy we are to kill, and we always start with 0 life force so we’re at a severe disadvantage right out of the gate. What professional team wants to deal with that?

Team Paradigm are talking about it now on their channel.. They are saying necro is the weakest because he cant disengage and other classes can do the same if not better condi damage.

Also they mention lack of vigor.

So i guess everybody agrees with the fact that necros need some big changes to be able to take a role in SPvP?!

Xaragon.3520:

Team Paradigm are talking about it now on their channel.. They are saying necro is the weakest because he cant disengage and other classes can do the same if not better condi damage.

Also they mention lack of vigor.

This was the BIGGEST issue for me when I was doing the all class tournament. It was just so easy for mesmers to intercept me between points and force a fight. Even the announcers noticed this and talked a lot about it during the match. When someone initiates combat with a necro, the necro is pretty much forced to fight it out right then and there or die. Even if you win, you’re still disabled because of how long necro cool downs are. This is mainly why necros make bad roamers.

Necros make bad roamers, and even if ANet makes us perfect in our prescribed role we always will be at best niche counter-roamers (intercepting the enemy roamer or slowing the enemy team in between points).

Why don’t you put the tournament teams on But of Corpse podcast and ask them why they don’t take Necros?

We’ve had Symbolic on there back before he was a traitor (jk). From what I’ve heard from the top Necros is basically that EU has such a strong condi removal based meta that condi necros really have trouble. Condi necros are usually based around bleeding someone out over a comparatively prolonged fight, and also applying large team pressure with our AoE. Problem being, EU has so much cleansing that the pressure just isn’t there. To my knowledge very few of them play burst condi necros. And since EU is the only place with much of a competitive scene right now, EU makes the meta.

As for why the don’t every try anything but condi Necros, I have no idea. I think it goes back to few players = stale meta.

Good idea though, that is a good thing to go over in a podcast.

Certainly Necros are bad roamers, but they are not alone in that aspect. Really, only the Thief and Ele can reliably disengage at will (you can possibly make an argument for Mesmers as well depending on the utilities they bring).

Like I said above I don’t really follow the EU scene very closely, but a cursory glance at their comps seems to suggest very little condi damage and more focus on mobility with Thieves/Eles/Mesmers being very well represented, so it is not too surprising to not see many Necros because they currently fill a fairly niche role (condi cleave and anti-boon/condi support).

I don’t think it has much to do with the abundance of condi cleanse though. Players have been running with heavy condi cleanse for ages, but you can still burn teams down with heavy condi. And some of the most popular condi cleanses in the game have been nerfed pretty hard (Empathic Bond/Cleansing Water).

I do think the old school Rabid Amulet with earth sigils and rez sig and stay at max range old school condi Necro build is a thing of the past now. Once I switched over to Carrion Amulet with Geomancy Sigils I’ve never looked back. You can get some wicked condi burst with it.

Swamurabi.7890:

Why don’t you put the tournament teams on But of Corpse podcast and ask them why they don’t take Necros?

That’s a great idea. I can tell you right now, that on the SOAC Touranment team there is no Necromancer.

For every reason Kravick said, plus here is a list and it’s by Zombify though he doesn’t know I am putting this here and he told me this a month ago.

1). Lack of Mobility in a highly mobile fight

2). Lack of Stability for stomps unless specced into our second worst trait tree.

3). Lack of boon access and a horribly healing ratio making them pointless bunkers.

4). Engineers have better condition damage, and better CC with stuns, and dazes and confusion.

5). Fear is the worst possible CC currently because it has a really short uptime and a really long downtime.

6). Every class carries two condition removals at least including aoe (Guardians and Ele’s have a ton). Which means you may get a fear off, but a shout will clear it.

7). Zero ability to burst

8). No ability to disengage and brake off (the only class who can do this)

9). Death Shroud while amazing is completely inadequate to handle Burst as it takes a long time to build up and a second to be gone. You can’t be healed in it, and you can be knocked out of it by any knockdown and ele’s, mesmer’s, guardians, and Warriors all carry knockdowns.

10) They have to be baby sat constantly by at least one class with a knockdown which means one of your roamers can’t roam.

I love the Necromancer, but these reasons are huge in the ability to live through a fight. The reason the Necromancer rolled to the semifinals in the second tournament is because they faced the Guardian (they hard counter them), and Rangers (no ability to consisitantly chain knockdowns). They got demolished by Mesmers – too much pure burst to destroy Ds, and too much condition cleanse to kill damage.

It’s only after working on these different podcasts and listening to other classes that I realized while the Necromancer has more viable builds than anyone else. It’s deficiencies are so big that there is no build that cover up our lack of mobility. Since the one tree that could Blood magic doesn’t scale well.

Don’t get me wrong. I love the Necromancer, and find it to be my favorite class, and proper use of Death Shroud is amazing, but in a high end tournament where thieves, ele’s, and mesmer’s are gunning from you from the get go, death shroud is extremely underwhelming, and so your team instead of focusing on point control is focusing on keeping you alive.

I think Arena Net thinks DS/Life Force is more valuable then it really is. Why can’t we heal while in DS? Why is LF so difficult to gain for scepter/staff if not specced into SR tree. Why must we start a match with 0 LF. I really hope they’re working on something for us. With all the tournaments coming up lately with cash prizes, anyone who has invested all of their time into their Necro is SoL. It would be nice for them to let us know that they hear our frustrations. We need an Engineer like overhaul with a bombardment of changes.

Bas.7406:

1). Lack of Mobility in a highly mobile fight

True.

Bas.7406:

2). Lack of Stability for stomps unless specced into our second worst trait tree.

True.

Bas.7406:

3). Lack of boon access and a horribly healing ratio making them pointless bunkers.

False. While we have a lack of boons like other classes, we can make incredibly sturdy bunkers, without Minions.

Bas.7406:

4). Engineers have better condition damage, and better CC with stuns, and dazes and confusion.

They do not have better condition damage. Rest is true, but they have to spec for it.

Bas.7406:

5). Fear is the worst possible CC currently because it has a really short uptime and a really long downtime.

False. Fear is incredibly strong when used properly, and it is only amplified in group fights. Granted it is short duration, and has a ridiculous CD, it is still very useful.

Bas.7406:

6). Every class carries two condition removals at least including aoe (Guardians and Ele’s have a ton). Which means you may get a fear off, but a shout will clear it.

True… but we have the tools to outlast the condition removal. If they spec for that much condition removal, outside of Thief/Ranger, they will end up losing damage, or opening themselves up for severe damage (Corrupt Boon)

Bas.7406:

7). Zero ability to burst

Blatantly false. We have some of the strongest bursting in the game, which is only amplified when players are forced to stand on point with us.

Bas.7406:

8). No ability to disengage and brake off (the only class who can do this)

You already made that point. I’m glad that we lack the ability to run, but in order to make up for this, we need stronger offensive capability.

Bas.7406:

9). Death Shroud while amazing is completely inadequate to handle Burst as it takes a long time to build up and a second to be gone. You can’t be healed in it, and you can be knocked out of it by any knockdown and ele’s, mesmer’s, guardians, and Warriors all carry knockdowns.

True, it isn’t good at handling burst and shouldn’t be used as such. It is meant to be flashed in and out of.

Bas.7406:

10) They have to be baby sat constantly by at least one class with a knockdown which means one of your roamers can’t roam.

Blatantly false. Necromancers do not need to be baby sat at all.

Oh hey everything I’ve been saying for months is now validated by ‘pros’…neat.

Doesn’t take an expert to spend a few minutes in SPVP and see the problems with Necros for yourself.

I will tell you I personally could contribute more to those teams as a siphon power necro than a condi, so some things like ‘DS is the second worst trait’ applies more to condi than power, where it is the best trait..because of crit damage, stability, and defense.

I can sustain with a full vit/ds build, and do not need to be babysat, damage comes through crit chance and crit damage from DS line.

Mobility is not too bad with locust and warhorn and shroud teleport, I can catch anyone since the ele nerf.

I can burst with a proper layering of wells, immob, golem charge etc etc.

Disengage is still the pits, nothing I can do about that but be the best possible kiter dropping marks behind me, and doing 180’s to immob or fear while still running forward, which I do.

I run 0/0/10/30/30 though which doesn’t seem too popular XD.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Bas.7406:

7). Zero ability to burst

Blatantly false. We have some of the strongest bursting in the game, which is only amplified when players are forced to stand on point with us.

Bas.7406:

5). Fear is the worst possible CC currently because it has a really short uptime and a really long downtime.

False. Fear is incredibly strong when used properly, and it is only amplified in group fights. Granted it is short duration, and has a ridiculous CD, it is still very useful.

Bas.7406:

3). Lack of boon access and a horribly healing ratio making them pointless bunkers.

False. While we have a lack of boons like other classes, we can make incredibly sturdy bunkers, without Minions.

Bas.7406:

6). Every class carries two condition removals at least including aoe (Guardians and Ele’s have a ton). Which means you may get a fear off, but a shout will clear it.

True… but we have the tools to outlast the condition removal. If they spec for that much condition removal, outside of Thief/Ranger, they will end up losing damage, or opening themselves up for severe damage (Corrupt Boon)

Bas.7406:

10) They have to be baby sat constantly by at least one class with a knockdown which means one of your roamers can’t roam.

Blatantly false. Necromancers do not need to be baby sat at all.

Agreed on the burst, we definitely have it.

Same on the fear – I could be wrong, but I can only come up with two instant cast CCs of the top of my head, the warrior shout “Fear me!” and our belowed DS #3 Doom that every necromancer has. Now here’s the funny part: both are fears. Since most CCs tend to have rather long cast times fear definitely has its place as the superior interrupting tool. Only daze gets even close to it yet fear also takes control of the enemy movement.

However, unless I’m missing something we definitely don’t have the tools to outlast anything. We severely lack ways of avoiding damage and we can’t outheal anything, so how could we possibly be bunkers? At best we can have lots of health and high toughness but it’s only a matter of time before our time runs out. Then again, I’d love to be proven wrong, so could you link us the magical build you’re using to suddenly make the impossible possible?

That everyone is carrying tons of condi removals is because there is too much condi flying all over the place.
Without constant stream of condi removal, like shout guardians or eles, you need a way to constantly stay out of the fight, and have alot of dodgerolls to overwrite the problems, the near 100% uptime of cripple gives you.
Conditions are so freaking common, that even Eles and Guardians can suffer and die from conditions.
And in terms of condition removal, or dodgerolls necro is in a bad spot. In my opinion necro is actually the worst class to deal with conditions.
Every other class can specc into condi remove, even mesmer (although no mesmer really needs it, as they can get distance between himself and the enemy without any problem whatsoever, even when stunned…).
Necro can get what…

• Shrouded Removal
• Spiteful Removal

These are his trait options.
And whatelse does he get:

• Consume Condition
• Plague Signet
• Deathly Swarm
• Putrid Mark
• Well of Power

But now lets face what actually happens with Plague Signet, Deathly Swarm and Putrid Mark when you are blinded:
They miss. Jep they removed blind.
Besides that, Deathly Swarm just removes 3 conditions if there are 2 targets to hit. It just transfers one per target hit.

Necro is the example of what would happen to the other classes if they wouldn’t have good condi removal (look at the standard zerger warrior, and how most people say it is bad and does not have survivability… they are missing condi removal!).

Seriously, face a guardian, ele, warrior or mesmer without condi removal. Not condi guardian, ele, warrior or mesmers, just straight power/bunker/crit builds. They will destroy you without condi removal, because they are in full control of the battle. They can blind you, give you vulnurability, or straight up almost constantly snare/chill you, while their damaging conditions constantly tick for low damage… but they keep on ticking.

The second huge problem is the subpar class mechanic in form of deathshroud. While this works well in PvE because stuff is constantly dying to fill up your Life Force, it doesn’t work well in PvP games.
You cannot generate Life Force fast enough, especially compared to how fast people can cut through the additional health.
On top of that, it is fairly useless for condition builds, as Dark Path has a significant cooldown, casttime and can actually put you in a bad position.
The fear is ok, although too shortlived. 5s more cooldown and double the time feared would be a huge step forward to give the necro actual hard CC.

In terms of generating lifeforce. Well it is ok in PvE, but in PvP lifeforce generating skills could without doubt be doubled, and most necros would still be below 50% lifeforce most of the time.

Third problem was already mentioned. Subpar healing. A high healthpool does almost nothing if you cannot sustain it. There isn’t much heal outside of the actual healskill. Other classes can often get a few small heals in all forms, from traits, to weaponskills or utilities. Necros have… somewhat ok access to regen if wanted. Other then that they can have minor lifestealing via traits, and Deathly Invigoration… oh look 350 health when leaving deathshroud. Now that is going to make a huge difference while those 700~800 burning ticks on you xD

The only ok skill in terms of secondary healing is Life Siphon. But this ability needs a target, and has to hit, in order to heal just about as much as Cone of Cold. You need to be almost in melee range, and it does not by default heal allies.

Last problem for me:
Lack of secondary defenses…
Bad access to protection. No access to vigor. Subpar stunbreak all over the place. Bad access to stability. Subpar access to blind (basically just well of darkness). No access to invulnurability of any kind.

yski.7642:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Bas.7406:

7). Zero ability to burst

Blatantly false. We have some of the strongest bursting in the game, which is only amplified when players are forced to stand on point with us.

Bas.7406:

5). Fear is the worst possible CC currently because it has a really short uptime and a really long downtime.

False. Fear is incredibly strong when used properly, and it is only amplified in group fights. Granted it is short duration, and has a ridiculous CD, it is still very useful.

Bas.7406:

3). Lack of boon access and a horribly healing ratio making them pointless bunkers.

False. While we have a lack of boons like other classes, we can make incredibly sturdy bunkers, without Minions.

Bas.7406:

6). Every class carries two condition removals at least including aoe (Guardians and Ele’s have a ton). Which means you may get a fear off, but a shout will clear it.

True… but we have the tools to outlast the condition removal. If they spec for that much condition removal, outside of Thief/Ranger, they will end up losing damage, or opening themselves up for severe damage (Corrupt Boon)

Bas.7406:

10) They have to be baby sat constantly by at least one class with a knockdown which means one of your roamers can’t roam.

Blatantly false. Necromancers do not need to be baby sat at all.

Agreed on the burst, we definitely have it.

Same on the fear – I could be wrong, but I can only come up with two instant cast CCs of the top of my head, the warrior shout “Fear me!” and our belowed DS #3 Doom that every necromancer has. Now here’s the funny part: both are fears. Since most CCs tend to have rather long cast times fear definitely has its place as the superior interrupting tool. Only daze gets even close to it yet fear also takes control of the enemy movement.

However, unless I’m missing something we definitely don’t have the tools to outlast anything. We severely lack ways of avoiding damage and we can’t outheal anything, so how could we possibly be bunkers? At best we can have lots of health and high toughness but it’s only a matter of time before our time runs out. Then again, I’d love to be proven wrong, so could you link us the magical build you’re using to suddenly make the impossible possible?

I’ve never went full out bunker with Necro before, but a sustain variant of a condi Necro goes 10 in blood with a shaman’s amulet. This essentially gives Necro perma-regen and makes them quite tanky (I go 0/10/20/10/20 with 10 points leftover to put how you see fit).

I’m still unsure if not being able to be healed in DS is intended or not. We’ve never heard from the devs on why this is. I’ve always assumed it was just a bug leftover from when DS used to be the Necro’s downed state, but it has remained in the game this long. If they allowed us to be healed in DS this would indirectly buff the Transfusion trait. Then make life siphoning traits scale with healing power (life siphoning skills already do) and buff deathly invigoration and I’m pretty sure it would be possible to make a bunker necro.

We can’t bunker like a bunker guardian/engi does, and unless something is changed there is no point for a necro to try (guardians fill pure-tank roles better).

If you look at the SOAC tournament (there are videos), I managed to bunker up on point against multiple opponents very well using a siphon/minion bunker build, even when eating CC like crazy, and still applying decent pressure. I would never suggest using a Necromancer (in our current form) as a generic bunker in the same role guardian fills, but they fill the “bruiser” role fairly well.

Ive had enough for now and im playing an engi, its just so much better, the cond dmg, the cc, the control, THE CONFUSION lovely lovely.kittenthiefs.
I really hope that now gw2 is getting into esports anet is FORCED to actually look at this class and buff it where its needed instead of random buffs that only a small population of necros care about.

Also @ thealimightyaltroll why are you arguing points about the necro being bad when its blatantly obvious they are bad since no team is using them.
@ bas/bhawb, why no stream?

Elvahaduken.3609:

Ive had enough for now and im playing an engi, its just so much better, the cond dmg, the cc, the control, THE CONFUSION lovely lovely.kittenthiefs.
I really hope that now gw2 is getting into esports anet is FORCED to actually look at this class and buff it where its needed instead of random buffs that only a small population of necros care about.

Also @ thealimightyaltroll why are you arguing points about the necro being bad when its blatantly obvious they are bad since no team is using them.
@ bas/bhawb, why no stream?

I haven’t been able to get any of the top teams to reply yet, but we are working on it. BTW, I was just informed by our team captain, that we will be running Necromancer haha. However, he does require someone to watch and protect him when pressure comes.

We actually had a bunch of scrim games yesterday with a team with a ranger and Engineer, and once our guys started protecting the Necro a bit more the team got better and better.

Elvahaduken.3609:

@ bas/bhawb, why no stream?

I’m not sure what you mean? SOAC has a stream (they were on last night). Unless you mean us personally streaming, which I’ve been looking into, but it might be a bit sad since I am far from a great player :P

Bhawb.7408:

Elvahaduken.3609:

@ bas/bhawb, why no stream?

I’m not sure what you mean? SOAC has a stream (they were on last night). Unless you mean us personally streaming, which I’ve been looking into, but it might be a bit sad since I am far from a great player :P

The stream was not on the SOACGaming channel which I think was what he was asking about. The stream was on silven’s individual channel. The team doesn’t want us to main stream it until they feel comfortable ;p.

The build I have is just as effective as a Bunker Guardian, if not better. However, I was not the original developer of the build, simply a modifier/improver. The original developer asked me not to post it for the fear of it being nerfed if it ever became the meta.

I assure you, such a thing is possible with Necromancer, if you do not believe me, then I would gladly demonstrate it in a tournament.

The reason why everyone thinks Necromancer is bad is because they don’t theorycraft enough, that and the popular Necromancers are generally sub-par players that lack imagination with Necromancer. I know several players ingame that don’t post on the forums and are superior to 90% of the Necros worshiped on these forums. Stay away from meta builds, experiment, come up with your own. I formed my opinion of Necromancer based upon my 36+ Necro builds that I developed or helped develop. I even developed a completely different play style from most players.

We’re not bad, we have our problems, but we are definitely not bad. That is why I get so frustrated when I see Necro teams failing to utilize the class properly and lose because of it.

wait, you get frustrated from seeing noobs using necros but aren’t willing to post your build to help them? I doubt it will get nerfed since other classes have op builds that don’t get nerfed. and hey what’s one decent build for a necro when all the rest are subpar (thats IF your build is even good)

You might aswell not post if your just gonna say “well your wrong but i have no proof to back it up because im not allowed to post builds” no teams are running necro atm, if you have a light to shine then bloody well do so.

I help new players learn Necromancer by actually helping/teaching them ingame. I’ve helped numerous people learn Necromancer. Necromancer is the only class that I do not charge Gems/Gold to teach.

As for the build, if you want to see it in action, contact me ingame. I will however tell you what the build focuses on, protection (Significant uptime of protection often nearing 60 seconds), blindness (Strongest condition in the game), and deathshroud (Constant building of Deathshroud to buffer cooldowns)

If you can replicate it from those 3 basic ideas, then you should be fine. It’s not a complicated build, but once again, I don’t share it with many people based upon the original player’s fears.

Otaking.4675:

Oh hey everything I’ve been saying for months is now validated by ‘pros’…neat.

yeah I feel ya there.

Dredlord.8076:

Otaking.4675:

Oh hey everything I’ve been saying for months is now validated by ‘pros’…neat.

yeah I feel ya there.

Dred, I have only watched one Necro in my lifetime and gone holy cow, how did he do that? Yet I saw him lost to a Ranger/Mesmer duo without really even having a shot. There was no way to get away, and no way to stop the pain.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

As for the build, if you want to see it in action, contact me ingame.

I’d love to see it, but are you EU or NA? Cross region games aren’t possible atm.

Alternatively, could you simply post some clips of you using it? You can edit out the skill bars and w/e if you are determined to keep your build hidden, but until I see the build in action I find it hard to believe it can actually bunker anything. Say, one or two tournament games would give us a good idea of what the build is capable of

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I help new players learn Necromancer by actually helping/teaching them ingame. I’ve helped numerous people learn Necromancer. Necromancer is the only class that I do not charge Gems/Gold to teach.

As for the build, if you want to see it in action, contact me ingame. I will however tell you what the build focuses on, protection (Significant uptime of protection often nearing 60 seconds), blindness (Strongest condition in the game), and deathshroud (Constant building of Deathshroud to buffer cooldowns)

If you can replicate it from those 3 basic ideas, then you should be fine. It’s not a complicated build, but once again, I don’t share it with many people based upon the original player’s fears.

You can not get 60 sec of protection.

Is this your build?

0/0/30/20/20

Greater marks/well protection
Mark of evasion/well CD
Last gasp

WOB/WOD/WOP/WOC / plague form

Shamans amulet

S/d staff

Runes of earth

i really do love my necromancer in spvp/tpvp it even has my most games played, but i don’t even play my necro in pvp anymore

i only enjoy playing a conditionmancer, but engineers can apply more conditions better and faster than a necromancer can

Login.5102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I help new players learn Necromancer by actually helping/teaching them ingame. I’ve helped numerous people learn Necromancer. Necromancer is the only class that I do not charge Gems/Gold to teach.

As for the build, if you want to see it in action, contact me ingame. I will however tell you what the build focuses on, protection (Significant uptime of protection often nearing 60 seconds), blindness (Strongest condition in the game), and deathshroud (Constant building of Deathshroud to buffer cooldowns)

If you can replicate it from those 3 basic ideas, then you should be fine. It’s not a complicated build, but once again, I don’t share it with many people based upon the original player’s fears.

You can not get 60 sec of protection.

Is this your build?

0/0/30/20/20

Greater marks/well protection
Mark of evasion/well CD
Last gasp

WOB/WOD/WOP/WOC / plague form

Shamans amulet

S/d staff

Runes of earth

Spectral Attunement + Spectral Mastery + Spectral Wall alone gives you a base 15s protection on a 32s cooldown. Spectral Attunement also increases the duration of protection on Spectral Armor.

Skyro.3108:

Login.5102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I help new players learn Necromancer by actually helping/teaching them ingame. I’ve helped numerous people learn Necromancer. Necromancer is the only class that I do not charge Gems/Gold to teach.

As for the build, if you want to see it in action, contact me ingame. I will however tell you what the build focuses on, protection (Significant uptime of protection often nearing 60 seconds), blindness (Strongest condition in the game), and deathshroud (Constant building of Deathshroud to buffer cooldowns)

If you can replicate it from those 3 basic ideas, then you should be fine. It’s not a complicated build, but once again, I don’t share it with many people based upon the original player’s fears.

You can not get 60 sec of protection.

Is this your build?

0/0/30/20/20

Greater marks/well protection
Mark of evasion/well CD
Last gasp

WOB/WOD/WOP/WOC / plague form

Shamans amulet

S/d staff

Runes of earth

Spectral Attunement + Spectral Mastery + Spectral Wall alone gives you a base 15s protection on a 32s cooldown. Spectral Attunement also increases the duration of protection on Spectral Armor.

60>15

Can’t imagine a bunker necro going 20 into curses/ or taking sa/sw over a well build

Login.5102:

Skyro.3108:

Login.5102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I help new players learn Necromancer by actually helping/teaching them ingame. I’ve helped numerous people learn Necromancer. Necromancer is the only class that I do not charge Gems/Gold to teach.

As for the build, if you want to see it in action, contact me ingame. I will however tell you what the build focuses on, protection (Significant uptime of protection often nearing 60 seconds), blindness (Strongest condition in the game), and deathshroud (Constant building of Deathshroud to buffer cooldowns)

If you can replicate it from those 3 basic ideas, then you should be fine. It’s not a complicated build, but once again, I don’t share it with many people based upon the original player’s fears.

You can not get 60 sec of protection.

Is this your build?

0/0/30/20/20

Greater marks/well protection
Mark of evasion/well CD
Last gasp

WOB/WOD/WOP/WOC / plague form

Shamans amulet

S/d staff

Runes of earth

Spectral Attunement + Spectral Mastery + Spectral Wall alone gives you a base 15s protection on a 32s cooldown. Spectral Attunement also increases the duration of protection on Spectral Armor.

60>15

Can’t imagine a bunker necro going 20 into curses/ or taking sa/sw over a well build

I have no idea what a bunker necro spec would look like because I’ve never seen one in high level tPvP, but the point I was making was that SA + SM + SW is AFAIK the only way for a Necro to maintain high uptime of Protection due to the combination of long duration and relatively low cooldown (e.g. you use SWall for 15+s of prot, chain other prot abilities like SArmor during the cooldown, then use SWall again).

Skyro.3108:

Then make life siphoning traits scale with healing power (life siphoning skills already do)

No, they don’t currently scale with healing power. Not even a little.

Tenderly.7019:

Skyro.3108:

Then make life siphoning traits scale with healing power (life siphoning skills already do)

No, they don’t currently scale with healing power. Not even a little.

There are only 4 siphon Necro skills:

Deadly Feast
Life Leech
Life Siphon
Signet of the Locust

All scale with healing power except I think Life Leech. I have tested in the past and Life Siphon and SotL scale with healing power (the healing portion of the skills), and Deadly Feast I never tested because it is an underwater skill which nobody cares about but apparently the wiki says it does.

However none of the Life Siphon traits (Vampiric, Bloodthirst, Vampiric Master, Vampiric Precision, Vampiric Rituals) scale with healing power at all and is just a flat number.

Skyro.3108:

Tenderly.7019:

Skyro.3108:

Then make life siphoning traits scale with healing power (life siphoning skills already do)

No, they don’t currently scale with healing power. Not even a little.

There are only 4 siphon Necro skills:

Deadly Feast
Life Leech
Life Siphon
Signet of the Locust

All scale with healing power except I think Life Leech. I have tested in the past and Life Siphon and SotL scale with healing power (the healing portion of the skills), and Deadly Feast I never tested because it is an underwater skill which nobody cares about but apparently the wiki says it does.

However none of the Life Siphon traits (Vampiric, Bloodthirst, Vampiric Master, Vampiric Precision, Vampiric Rituals) scale with healing power at all and is just a flat number.

Apologies, I misread your post, you said skills scale with healing power, I meant the traits do not.

Skyro.3108:

I have no idea what a bunker necro spec would look like because I’ve never seen one in high level tPvP, but the point I was making was that SA + SM + SW is AFAIK the only way for a Necro to maintain high uptime of Protection due to the combination of long duration and relatively low cooldown (e.g. you use SWall for 15+s of prot, chain other prot abilities like SArmor during the cooldown, then use SWall again).

Problem being, it doesn’t matter how much protection they have, they are very likely giving up way too much to get it. Guardians give up a lot of damage when they bunker, but they still bring a ton of CC/support, and they are immovable from point. Necromancers, on the other hand, are very movable from point.

I’ve run many different types of Necro bunkers, in our current state we will never be able to fill the role of main bunker, although with proper team composition/help Necromancers do make for great bunkers on the side.

For example last night I ran a support/damage/bunker build I have thats a variation of my minion/power hybrid build. It allowed our teams guardian to not only roam points, but also use his stability/CC to secure the buffs (on temple). I sat mid, and whenever no one was there, I would go back and forth and stack up Ferocity, so for a lot of matches our stomps were giving almost double value. That is a great niche for us, because I’m able to stay alive fairly well until backup comes, it allows the guardian to secure things that he otherwise wouldn’t be able to.

As stated, don’t believe me, I’ll gladly demonstrate. I showed the build to someone last night from here.

I’m just avenger at the moment, (playing properly not joining public games with 20 slots and touching people with my daggers to get the glory for the kills), but even when i’m not very experimented i see some major flaws,

1) Infernal cast times, against a good player with enough crowd control you will not be able to cast a single skill, this is by far the worst and drives me crazy,

2) Life force is hard to get and easy to loose, we need to start with our life force at 100%, otherwise rangers should start with their pets dead and guardians with no virtues,

3) Our trait tree is a mess bla bla bla i’m not going to discuss this because i’m sick of it,

4) Due we are slow we are not the best option to attack a position, we are not good bunkers, (ranger, guardian, engineer and elementalist are much better), perhaps we are the best class to defend an underwater point,

5) WE ARE NECCESARY to eliminate a boon based class, we excel at killing guardians due their low hp and high toughness,

In overall the necromancers are ok to public games and free tournaments, unfortunately the problem with the necro is the same problem with the warrior… even if you are a great player, a mediocre one with a better class will be more usefull,

The only “good spot” for a necro is to drop corrupt boon against a boon based class and then epidemic,

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

As stated, don’t believe me, I’ll gladly demonstrate. I showed the build to someone last night from here.

You can’t blame them can you? You mention some of this is due to lack of theory crafting and advise people to experiment on their own, yet you use SOMEONE ELSE’S build.

And of course, there is your name. :P

Please make a video.

I improved upon his design at his request. Point? Also, I have no recording software.

Zatria.5783:

You can’t blame them can you? You mention some of this is due to lack of theory crafting and advise people to experiment on their own, yet you use SOMEONE ELSE’S build.

And of course, there is your name. :P

Please make a video.

I’ve personally seen the build in action. It definitely is more tanky than the well known minion bunker build.

Kravick.4906:

Zatria.5783:

You can’t blame them can you? You mention some of this is due to lack of theory crafting and advise people to experiment on their own, yet you use SOMEONE ELSE’S build.

And of course, there is your name. :P

Please make a video.

I’ve personally seen the build in action. It definitely is more tanky than the well known minion bunker build.

That’s cool. I’m just saying, talking out of both sides of the mouth isn’t going to convince anyone. You can’t blame it on lack of studying and advise people to do more of it…then tell them you are actually using someone else’s build.

that’s all I was saying.

Zatria.5783:

That’s cool. I’m just saying, talking out of both sides of the mouth isn’t going to convince anyone. You can’t blame it on lack of studying and advise people to do more of it…then tell them you are actually using someone else’s build.

that’s all I was saying.

I completely understand why he doesn’t want to make the build public. ANet doesn’t want necros to be bunkers, at all, ever, after what happened in beta. I’m pretty sure if this build became public knowledge it would get nerfed into the ground and take what little functional traits we have with it.

Kravick.4906:

Zatria.5783:

That’s cool. I’m just saying, talking out of both sides of the mouth isn’t going to convince anyone. You can’t blame it on lack of studying and advise people to do more of it…then tell them you are actually using someone else’s build.

that’s all I was saying.

I completely understand why he doesn’t want to make the build public. ANet doesn’t want necros to be bunkers, at all, ever, after what happened in beta. I’m pretty sure if this build became public knowledge it would get nerfed into the ground and take what little functional traits we have with it.

That’s nice. But that really has absolutely nothing to do with what I am saying.