Guild Wars 2

Still does nothing to fix the fact that minions are made out of wet paper. And you don’t have a single way to heal them under water… nor can you use a golem under water.
And again 25 bleed cap is simply stereotypical hatred from children who can’t deal with dots… Put a cap on melee hits… its also damage source… same as dots… Too bad infinite amount of basement dwelling children will drown the world in tears if that was to happen.
Don’t get me wrong… some of those fixes are fairly good. Too bad it doesn’t change the half a year of utter neglect and nerfs.

Seetoo.9316:

On the comment about “reducing aoe” (cleaves, bounces, etc)

Warriors just got an additional cleave (banner auto) to their already long list of cleaves, yet it’s too much for necros to gain 1 through axes.

I thought that was the funniest thing about the patch notes. Non-GS warriors which is almost no one. Warriors who have the worst abilities for pvp got a buff to their banner builds (if you carry the banner around) haha. I have yet to meet one banner warrior in tournaments let alone one who uses it as a weapon in pve.

Seetoo.9316:

On the comment about “reducing aoe” (cleaves, bounces, etc)

Warriors just got an additional cleave (banner auto) to their already long list of cleaves, yet it’s too much for necros to gain 1 through axes.

… looks like I’m going to be stealing some banners

HiSaZuL.2843:

Still does nothing to fix the fact that minions are made out of wet paper.

Overexaggeration – they are fine, and routinely tank everything short of champion mobs for me.

HiSaZuL.2843:

And you don’t have a single way to heal them under water… nor can you use a golem under water.

You have a quicker summoning time underwater, but other than that I agree, though I never really noticed the not healing before. It bothers me alot that I can’t use anything except Plague underwater.

one thing that I’ll say minions are missing is OoC healing

the flesh golem does, but no other minion regens out of combat, and we have no way of dismissing them other than the zombie hamsters explosions and the blood fiend’s sacrifice. that makes it perfectly feasible for you to go into battle with 3 minions nearly dead, and 2 seconds into the battle they die and go on CD

Calcifire.1864:

one thing that I’ll say minions are missing is OoC healing

the flesh golem does, but no other minion regens out of combat, and we have no way of dismissing them other than the zombie hamsters explosions and the blood fiend’s sacrifice. that makes it perfectly feasible for you to go into battle with 3 minions nearly dead, and 2 seconds into the battle they die and go on CD

I agree, but 24 second CD’s are pretty nice. It is a bit annoying that there is no way for me to heal them or as you pointed out kill them off so I can resummon before the next fight at all outside of Life Transfer heals or Staff 2.

Power necro viable

Almost 6k Axe 2

Stay tuned for a build. Workin on one right now

As an axe focus wvw necro, yeah this is a very good thing for us. If your full power line you get 30% cond duration anyways so your auto attack will but a 9 sec Vuln on target meaning less drop off when you use axe 2 witch also got a buff, so yeah double buff for your burst attack.

Quike edit: my build 30/0/25/15/0. Use knight gear and trinkets and one knight weapon, runes of the pack, zerker wep and zerker jewels, I use +5% damage and heal on crit sigils. Before patch I could hit 6k axe two on a rebuffed target, have not been on yet to test.

Bas.7406:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Still does nothing to fix the fact that minions are made out of wet paper.

Overexaggeration – they are fine, and routinely tank everything short of champion mobs for me.

HiSaZuL.2843:

And you don’t have a single way to heal them under water… nor can you use a golem under water.

You have a quicker summoning time underwater, but other than that I agree, though I never really noticed the not healing before. It bothers me alot that I can’t use anything except Plague underwater.

Don’t get me wrong… as far as pve goes I refuse to touch anything other then full MM… it works… but cmon. Golem doesn’t even warrant being an elite. It has less damage then some clones… and on par hp with thiefs elite… which summons 3. Point is they are lacking in survivability. Mostly due to aoe killing them instantly and partually due to the fact they don’t regen so you never start combat with your minions being fully healed…If MM could provide even the slightest in combat passive healing from damage or passive it would solve it partualy or at least let them all heal ooc. And if they just plainly gave summons aoe resistance… it would solve half the problem on the spot. If they all regenerated ooc and had some resistance to aoe my gripe would be solely with underwater lack of golem and being stuck with elite that punishes MM.

MM doesn’t work in pve, not indungeons. Anyone who tells you minions live through cleave and aoe in dungeons and fractals is a terrible liar.

Zenith.7301:

MM doesn’t work in pve, not indungeons. Anyone who tells you minions live through cleave and aoe in dungeons and fractals is a terrible liar.

Bas fishing?

WTF mm in pve and fractals works… schmuck

meh.. i’d only say they’d given us a buff if they give us cleave on auto attack. That’s all.

meh.. i’d only say they’d given us a buff if they give us cleave on auto attack. That’s all.And we have really bad defensive cd (or do we have any?) and if you use any of our stunbreakers you are in for an extremely low dps. A play or two with warrior, guardian, mesmer, elementalist, thief – all makes me wanna shelf my necro, but no, she’s my main and i’m waiting for the day they REALLY get fixed. And to those who keep saying minions are worth it, well only in pvp. You don’t use it anywhere else where difficulty matters. We need useful tools to help during difficult times, not more buffs to things we are already using in normal cheezy content.

Bas.7406:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Still does nothing to fix the fact that minions are made out of wet paper.

Overexaggeration – they are fine, and routinely tank everything short of champion mobs for me.

HiSaZuL.2843:

And you don’t have a single way to heal them under water… nor can you use a golem under water.

You have a quicker summoning time underwater, but other than that I agree, though I never really noticed the not healing before. It bothers me alot that I can’t use anything except Plague underwater.

I’d love to see your minions tank 3 young karkas shooting kittens at them. YOUNG.

Yeah pretty decent patch overall! I like that axe is now more viable. I’m not sure I like how they seem to be funnelling us into very specific builds for each weapon though. It’s like they decided that MMs should be axe/focus bunker builds with soldier’s or cleric’s gear and they’re buffing just the right skills that will steer us in that direction. What happened to designing traits with proper cross-attribute synergy and letting us come up with sick, unbalanced combos on our own? That was the best part of GW1, steepling your fingers and chuckling maniacally as you gazed at your skillbar :p

I don’t think the Spinal Shivers changes are enough to tempt me to use focus. Reaper’s Touch is still pretty mediocre, if it also inflicted Weakness it would be good. The regen is nice if you’re running Cleric’s gear (although you should probably still be using Staff in your off-set anyway so you could get it from that) but won’t save your minions if there’s a lot of aoe. Frankly, I’d much rather take the condition transfer and weakness of dagger, or the interrupt from horn. Especially if you swap out Consume Conditions and use Blood Fiend – I don’t think it’s viable (even in pve) to rely on Putrid Mark for your only condition removal, so it’s either Consume or dagger offhand: I’m not leaving home without at least one of the two! I could go 30 into blood and get the minion condition removal, but let’s face it, they won’t survive in a fight long enough for it to be useful. (I’m not moaning about their survivability, it’s just a fact, there’s a lot of aoe flying around and they can’t heal themselves or dodge!)

As an aside, I personally didn’t even know Necromantic Corruption wasn’t working! I’ve never used it, I just don’t like random removals, I prefer knowing it’s coming at a specific point.

Bas.7406:

Look, now you are talking about the AI in general which was my point. The Minion AI is pretty good a majority of the time and excellent compared to other non-controlled AI. 95 percent on all minions not named Flesh Golem. Why Flesh Golem is so much worse? I don’t know. Though it’s at 70 percent of the time now.

Actually, only 86% of all minions are not named Flesh Golem :p
(Yeah I know that’s not what you meant, I’m just being a pedant)
I’m fairly certain the AI problems are due to pathfinding, and specifically a total inability to process the z-axis even for minor obstacles that don’t even block los and players would jump over. Ranged minions are indeed a lot more responsive (even though they sometimes try to attack from behind a wall, something I’ve also seen mesmer illusions do).
Incidentally I also have a ranger alt and my pet stands around quite a lot of the time! But for them it’s not a problem as you can override its behaviour with the F-keys.

Bellamy.9860:

Minion heal was at about 80 for the flesh golem, dunno if different minions heal for different amouts

Yeah 79 for the Flesh Golem, I tested in mists. Don’t remember if I tested for the others too. Logically it should scale inversely with their attack speed, but it’s not like our own siphoning does so it’s probably the same.

Rennoko.5731:

80% more healing from the blood fiend!!

Has anyone tested to see if this only affects the siphoning-on-attack it gives you? Or does it affect the base heal as well? Also, is the siphoning also affected by Bloodthirst now?

Wayfarer.2051:

Ca anyone tell me if Vampiric Rituals also affects allies?

IIRC it affects anyone standing in them.

HiSaZuL.2843:

Golem doesn’t even warrant being an elite. It has less damage then some clones… and on par hp with thiefs elite… which summons 3. Point is they are lacking in survivability. Mostly due to aoe killing them instantly and partually due to the fact they don’t regen so you never start combat with your minions being fully healed…If MM could provide even the slightest in combat passive healing from damage or passive it would solve it partualy or at least let them all heal ooc. And if they just plainly gave summons aoe resistance… it would solve half the problem on the spot. If they all regenerated ooc and had some resistance to aoe my gripe would be solely with underwater lack of golem and being stuck with elite that punishes MM.

Well you can’t really compare the Golem to a skill that only has 30" duration and 4 times the recharge. TBH I’m happy with its damage and survivability, I only have a problem with its AI.

As far as ordinary minions go, hbowever, I completely agree, they should give them ooc regen. Or at the very least allow us to dismiss and resummon! Having them clinging on by a sliver of health makes me feel like the opposite of a GW1 minionmaster, who started out pathetically weak until he got his first few minions up and then became an unstoppable juggernaut. GW2 MMs get weaker as the fight progresse, which is psychologically rather dispiriting. If I run to the next point with 2 minions almost dead and 1 on the recharge I might as well lie down and let them kill me.

HiSaZuL.2843:

Don’t get me wrong… as far as pve goes I refuse to touch anything other then full MM… it works… but cmon. Golem doesn’t even warrant being an elite. It has less damage then some clones… and on par hp with thiefs elite… which summons 3. Point is they are lacking in survivability. Mostly due to aoe killing them instantly and partually due to the fact they don’t regen so you never start combat with your minions being fully healed…If MM could provide even the slightest in combat passive healing from damage or passive it would solve it partualy or at least let them all heal ooc. And if they just plainly gave summons aoe resistance… it would solve half the problem on the spot. If they all regenerated ooc and had some resistance to aoe my gripe would be solely with underwater lack of golem and being stuck with elite that punishes MM.

I disagree with your assertion on golem, but I understand your point. They can’t give it more or they would have to extend the cooldown. Aoe Doesn’t kill all your minions instantly. It depends on the aoe used, and the minions being hit. That’s why the ranged guys are awesome, and it’s also why I constantly tell everyone “BRING THE FLESH WURM!”

AS for the underwater problems, I hate it more than you know. I have never been a fan of plague form, but I think it’s to offset the fact that we are amazingly powerful in underwater fights though no one actually fights underwater.

manveruppd.7601:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Golem doesn’t even warrant being an elite. It has less damage then some clones… and on par hp with thiefs elite… which summons 3. Point is they are lacking in survivability. Mostly due to aoe killing them instantly and partually due to the fact they don’t regen so you never start combat with your minions being fully healed…If MM could provide even the slightest in combat passive healing from damage or passive it would solve it partualy or at least let them all heal ooc. And if they just plainly gave summons aoe resistance… it would solve half the problem on the spot. If they all regenerated ooc and had some resistance to aoe my gripe would be solely with underwater lack of golem and being stuck with elite that punishes MM.

Well you can’t really compare the Golem to a skill that only has 30" duration and 4 times the recharge. TBH I’m happy with its damage and survivability, I only have a problem with its AI.

As far as ordinary minions go, hbowever, I completely agree, they should give them ooc regen. Or at the very least allow us to dismiss and resummon! Having them clinging on by a sliver of health makes me feel like the opposite of a GW1 minionmaster, who started out pathetically weak until he got his first few minions up and then became an unstoppable juggernaut. GW2 MMs get weaker as the fight progresse, which is psychologically rather dispiriting. If I run to the next point with 2 minions almost dead and 1 on the recharge I might as well lie down and let them kill me.

Yep. Every second fight is you engage every minion dies and you have 4 skills on cd with maybe golem out… Useless that is. You either run away and come back when things off cd or just tough it up and do it yourself which is utterly moronic in its base concept. And again minions are still made out of wet paper golem included.
Soon as he can survive some dungeon aoe… you can tell me hes alright. Besides its not like he regens in combat any fights that last more then 30 seconds incur a useless elite that provides nothing to the table. Past maybe 20k damage. Thats a few auto attacks from warrior/thief whoopdy doo… some elite that is.
Can you play MM… sure… is it enjoyable… I think sticking a hedgehog up your own kitten would be equally gratifying .

I’m glad to see bug fixes, but at the same time, there are still non-scaling heals like Transfusion and Deathly Invigoration. I would like to see those respect healing stats so it’s actually worthwhile. This is all just how the game was supposed to be originally rather than a shift in how it plays.

Tenebrous.2451:

Bas.7406:

The only major issue that we currently have is the DS UI issue. That’s the only major problem Necro’s have.

Cough Cough Minion AI Cough Cough

^

I’ve been using Minions for the first time and I see no issue.

Not sure what you guys are really complaining about.

Note : this is in regular PvE leveling, not in dungeons or anything like that. I feel pretty much invincible with minions.

HiSaZuL.2843:

It’s pretty disappointing seeing half your bar on cooldown, I agree. But I do think they’re SUPPOSED to die, I mean they give you quite a decent DPS boost, which if your enemy doesn’t deal with will bring him down! If they go to the trouble to throw a lot of aoe around to negate them they should be able to. This game is about countering your opponent’s moves after all. But it sucks being forced to start at less than optimal effectiveness, cause that’s just unfair (no less than starting out with 0 life force though, and we’re ok with that). I think slightly reduced cooldowns (like literally 20% less on the longest ones, 10% on the shorter ones) would balance it just right.

And I do agree that it’s ridiculous that we can’t use the Golem underwater. All the other ones work fine, so I don’t see why they arbitrarily chose Plague as our one underwater elite. It wouldn’t be so bad if the stupid thing didn’t go and literally jump in and drown itself whenever you walked within 100m of every tiny puddle in the game, so that you’re then start with a massive recharge even though you didn’t even go in the water!

Having played multiple classes at this point, I think you will continue to see buffs in upcoming patches. Necro’s are fun, but mostly due to the challenge and having to be on your game constantly.

I think in a few months people will look back on this time, and wonder how they stuck it out. Those that do will wear it like a badge of honor.

I believe Necro’s are pretty good, but they still have a ways to go to match the fluidity and synergy of the other classes.

Spartyr.6795:

I believe Necro’s are pretty good, but they still have a ways to go to match the fluidity and synergy of the other classes.

Rangers, on the other hand, took some major nerfs this patch. Especially regarding WvW. They already weren’t in a good spot.

HiSaZuL.2843:

manveruppd.7601:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Golem doesn’t even warrant being an elite. It has less damage then some clones… and on par hp with thiefs elite… which summons 3. Point is they are lacking in survivability. Mostly due to aoe killing them instantly and partually due to the fact they don’t regen so you never start combat with your minions being fully healed…If MM could provide even the slightest in combat passive healing from damage or passive it would solve it partualy or at least let them all heal ooc. And if they just plainly gave summons aoe resistance… it would solve half the problem on the spot. If they all regenerated ooc and had some resistance to aoe my gripe would be solely with underwater lack of golem and being stuck with elite that punishes MM.

Well you can’t really compare the Golem to a skill that only has 30" duration and 4 times the recharge. TBH I’m happy with its damage and survivability, I only have a problem with its AI.

As far as ordinary minions go, hbowever, I completely agree, they should give them ooc regen. Or at the very least allow us to dismiss and resummon! Having them clinging on by a sliver of health makes me feel like the opposite of a GW1 minionmaster, who started out pathetically weak until he got his first few minions up and then became an unstoppable juggernaut. GW2 MMs get weaker as the fight progresse, which is psychologically rather dispiriting. If I run to the next point with 2 minions almost dead and 1 on the recharge I might as well lie down and let them kill me.

Yep. Every second fight is you engage every minion dies and you have 4 skills on cd with maybe golem out… Useless that is. You either run away and come back when things off cd or just tough it up and do it yourself which is utterly moronic in its base concept. And again minions are still made out of wet paper golem included.
Soon as he can survive some dungeon aoe… you can tell me hes alright. Besides its not like he regens in combat any fights that last more then 30 seconds incur a useless elite that provides nothing to the table. Past maybe 20k damage. Thats a few auto attacks from warrior/thief whoopdy doo… some elite that is.
Can you play MM… sure… is it enjoyable… I think sticking a hedgehog up your own kitten would be equally gratifying .

What dungeon are you in, and what minions are you using where you lose every single one every second fight? I have done every single dungeon as an MM, and Flesh Golem almost never dies, bone fiend rarely dies, Flesh Wurm only dies if he pulls threat (rarely), and bone minions die because I tell them too.

Are you just rushing in with your head down screaming LEROY Jenkins!!!! I have no idea or concept as to how you would have to play in order for every single minion to die every single pull or even every two pulls.

Bas.7406:

HiSaZuL.2843:

manveruppd.7601:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Golem doesn’t even warrant being an elite. It has less damage then some clones… and on par hp with thiefs elite… which summons 3. Point is they are lacking in survivability. Mostly due to aoe killing them instantly and partually due to the fact they don’t regen so you never start combat with your minions being fully healed…If MM could provide even the slightest in combat passive healing from damage or passive it would solve it partualy or at least let them all heal ooc. And if they just plainly gave summons aoe resistance… it would solve half the problem on the spot. If they all regenerated ooc and had some resistance to aoe my gripe would be solely with underwater lack of golem and being stuck with elite that punishes MM.

Well you can’t really compare the Golem to a skill that only has 30" duration and 4 times the recharge. TBH I’m happy with its damage and survivability, I only have a problem with its AI.

As far as ordinary minions go, hbowever, I completely agree, they should give them ooc regen. Or at the very least allow us to dismiss and resummon! Having them clinging on by a sliver of health makes me feel like the opposite of a GW1 minionmaster, who started out pathetically weak until he got his first few minions up and then became an unstoppable juggernaut. GW2 MMs get weaker as the fight progresse, which is psychologically rather dispiriting. If I run to the next point with 2 minions almost dead and 1 on the recharge I might as well lie down and let them kill me.

Yep. Every second fight is you engage every minion dies and you have 4 skills on cd with maybe golem out… Useless that is. You either run away and come back when things off cd or just tough it up and do it yourself which is utterly moronic in its base concept. And again minions are still made out of wet paper golem included.
Soon as he can survive some dungeon aoe… you can tell me hes alright. Besides its not like he regens in combat any fights that last more then 30 seconds incur a useless elite that provides nothing to the table. Past maybe 20k damage. Thats a few auto attacks from warrior/thief whoopdy doo… some elite that is.
Can you play MM… sure… is it enjoyable… I think sticking a hedgehog up your own kitten would be equally gratifying .

What dungeon are you in, and what minions are you using where you lose every single one every second fight? I have done every single dungeon as an MM, and Flesh Golem almost never dies, bone fiend rarely dies, Flesh Wurm only dies if he pulls threat (rarely), and bone minions die because I tell them too.

Are you just rushing in with your head down screaming LEROY Jenkins!!!! I have no idea or concept as to how you would have to play in order for every single minion to die every single pull or even every two pulls.

I think the point is that minions are not useful in fights that actually matter. Which means you are no different from having just weapon skills and leaving the utilities blank (because that’s what they’ll be). I’ll give you minion bombs, but really?

abelooi.9156:

Bas.7406:

HiSaZuL.2843:

manveruppd.7601:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Golem doesn’t even warrant being an elite. It has less damage then some clones… and on par hp with thiefs elite… which summons 3. Point is they are lacking in survivability. Mostly due to aoe killing them instantly and partually due to the fact they don’t regen so you never start combat with your minions being fully healed…If MM could provide even the slightest in combat passive healing from damage or passive it would solve it partualy or at least let them all heal ooc. And if they just plainly gave summons aoe resistance… it would solve half the problem on the spot. If they all regenerated ooc and had some resistance to aoe my gripe would be solely with underwater lack of golem and being stuck with elite that punishes MM.

Well you can’t really compare the Golem to a skill that only has 30" duration and 4 times the recharge. TBH I’m happy with its damage and survivability, I only have a problem with its AI.

As far as ordinary minions go, hbowever, I completely agree, they should give them ooc regen. Or at the very least allow us to dismiss and resummon! Having them clinging on by a sliver of health makes me feel like the opposite of a GW1 minionmaster, who started out pathetically weak until he got his first few minions up and then became an unstoppable juggernaut. GW2 MMs get weaker as the fight progresse, which is psychologically rather dispiriting. If I run to the next point with 2 minions almost dead and 1 on the recharge I might as well lie down and let them kill me.

Yep. Every second fight is you engage every minion dies and you have 4 skills on cd with maybe golem out… Useless that is. You either run away and come back when things off cd or just tough it up and do it yourself which is utterly moronic in its base concept. And again minions are still made out of wet paper golem included.
Soon as he can survive some dungeon aoe… you can tell me hes alright. Besides its not like he regens in combat any fights that last more then 30 seconds incur a useless elite that provides nothing to the table. Past maybe 20k damage. Thats a few auto attacks from warrior/thief whoopdy doo… some elite that is.
Can you play MM… sure… is it enjoyable… I think sticking a hedgehog up your own kitten would be equally gratifying .

What dungeon are you in, and what minions are you using where you lose every single one every second fight? I have done every single dungeon as an MM, and Flesh Golem almost never dies, bone fiend rarely dies, Flesh Wurm only dies if he pulls threat (rarely), and bone minions die because I tell them too.

Are you just rushing in with your head down screaming LEROY Jenkins!!!! I have no idea or concept as to how you would have to play in order for every single minion to die every single pull or even every two pulls.

I think the point is that minions are not useful in fights that actually matter. Which means you are no different from having just weapon skills and leaving the utilities blank (because that’s what they’ll be). I’ll give you minion bombs, but really?

Actually there are few fights that they have issues. Only fractals lvl 10 are they completely incompatible. Name the fights, and I can tell you how it’s workable.

MM in arah lupi (or arah in general). New AC bosses. Places where mobs drop fire-well aoe, or that shaman kitten that shoot flames. Young and old karkas. Every single champion mob worth its salt. Those AC elementalist ghosts. Harathi hinterland chains with the bazillion of four-legged frak. COE alpha. TA greater nightmare. Assorted silver mobs that can wipe glassy dudes (they can wipe your minions too). Going underwater (automatically wipes your elite) (sometimes unintentionally venture into a slight swimmage). Hotw bosses whether the ones with the icy spikes, or even butcher when he spins because you have no way to control your minions. HOTW 2 final bosses of paths 2 & 3 are underwater. Places where you have to run and there are lavas around. You could argue that you swap skills as necessary anyway, but then when do you swap back to minions? They are not good for running through content, they are not good for tanking mobs that actually kill you, and they are similar to what dps utilities will do to mobs that cannot kill you.

You yourself mentioned fracs 10+. That’s simply too much content (at end game) that automatically voids the viability of MM.

These are all good changes, but they’re not that significant. A few are, but they’re not going to be as impacting as, say, a death shroud fix/overhaul would have been. Band-aids for better or for worse.

The buff to axe is good, but it’s still a mediocre weapon. You might roll people with it in sPvP or small-scale combat, but that’s not something to write home about since it’s largely single-target.

The buff (read: bugfixes) to minions are good, but minion masters will continue to be a fringe role so long as minions have their current AI, cooldowns and mediocre active abilities.

Probably the most significant change was to Spinal Shivers and its associated trait, helping bring out an otherwise-unused offhand weapon. Now, if Spinal Shivers corrupted the boons rather than removed them, I’d explode with joy.

1. Cond cap
2. DS ui
3. Minion AI
Without that…patch looks like giving a spoon to man without hands

abelooi.9156:

MM in arah lupi (or arah in general).

Fixed two patches ago, but that was an issue. I still did it

abelooi.9156:

New AC bosses.

Haven’t seen them yet, I will give you my input once I do.

abelooi.9156:

Places where mobs drop fire-well aoe, or that shaman kitten that shoot flames.

Never had an issue, with either of those. I have two ranged that I have usually spread out. I may lose Flesh golem if the damage is obscene but otherwise it may kill one at best, but never all of them at once.

abelooi.9156:

Young and old karkas.

Rarely do I lose more than one since Bone minions don’t count because I am blowing them up. I lose Bone fiend and resurrect him 24 seconds later, but that’s damage I don’t take so it’s like a free blind that means it’s a win.

abelooi.9156:

Every single champion mob worth its salt.

Again, I may lose one maybe two, but they are back up 24 seconds later, and the only one that has ever wiped them all out was a giant before I learned to use Flesh Wurm against Champions.

abelooi.9156:

Those AC elementalist ghosts.

Haha worst example so far. Those get farm killed rarely focus on my minions and if my minions are dumb enough to stand in it, it means they focused on a minion and not one of us which is a win. Usually only lose a bone fiend if it’s targeted.

abelooi.9156:

Harathi hinterland chains with the bazillion of four-legged frak. COE alpha. TA greater nightmare. Assorted silver mobs that can wipe glassy dudes (they can wipe your minions too).

CoE Fixed, TA never had an issue in fact it was a big bonus to have them on that fight. Harathi is a joke because you are there pre level 50 when you actually get the bonus health – Nice try though.

abelooi.9156:

Going underwater (automatically wipes your elite) (sometimes unintentionally venture into a slight swimmage).

So far this is your first valid complaint.

abelooi.9156:

Hotw bosses whether the ones with the icy spikes, or even butcher when he spins because you have no way to control your minions.

Never had an issue, and I would venture that well guys have it worse since they move and you immediately lose your well damage. Butcher isn’t an issue as I don’t stack my minions on top of him (again why are you stacking them in one spot?)

abelooi.9156:

HOTW 2 final bosses of paths 2 & 3 are underwater.

Same issue arises for any power necro, but nice try bringing up multiple instances of underwater problems

abelooi.9156:

Places where you have to run and there are lavas around.

Now you are just being ridiculous, if I am dumb enough to stand in a damaging lava pit (where are these by the way) thereby killing off my minions I need to stop playing and go to bed.

abelooi.9156:

You yourself mentioned fracs 10+.

So you have 2 of 12 that are correct issues. The rest seem to me like playstyle issues. if you are stacking minions on top of each other than yes you are going to lose them. If you bring shadow fiend than that’s a l2p issue as shadow fiend in dungeons is a dead guy. Bone Fiends, Bone Minions, Flesh Wurm and Flesh golem for dungeons and you will never lose more than 2 at any one time.

minions heals when they survive :P, staff auto attack 50 % + speed wud be just what we needed, i just do wvw and dungeons this doesnt help me atall.

idk what to say, minions will nvr survive to heal xd, actually be happy with it?

We r necromancers BUT warrors, thieves, mages …… lol everyone stacks more conditions n faster, we sacrifice our hp to stack conditions ……

this is not what we expected, well wvwv necros i mean, compare our minions with thieves guild ? or mages elements ? nvm just disappointing, i wont even try to replace my utility skills with minions

I really wish I had your super-minions Bas. Flesh golem and shadow fiend can’t even survive the trash that cleaves in TA on story mode or the huge veteran karka that lay eggs let alone real dungeon bosses. How exactly do you manage to spread out your ranged minions anyway? I mean you can put wurm wherever but the other 2 stand right next to each other and both eat it at the same time. Usually a few seconds after all the melees have been cleaved to death =/. So at that point you have your flesh wurm still up, and the golem often has a sliver of health left so he gets in a few more whacks before he bites it too on the next aoe.
Its not even so much that they get one shot because their health is decent, its that there are so many things that do repeated constant damage. They get torn to shreds by cleaves and just stand there burning to ashes or dissolving in poison or getting thrashed by some boss spinning attack…you can see it coming and can do absolutely nothing about it. Thats my biggest problem, its infuriating being able to have absolutely no input after you first attack a target. No matter how good you are all you can do is watch them die in the most idiotic ways possible. And then be semi useless for the next 16-48 seconds.
The whole game of guild wars 2 is designed around dodging big hits and staying out of red circles, and they can’t do either. I honestly don’t know how they could even be designed in such a flawed way.

yes u said it, i wont waste my utility skills for 2 sec heals from minions, give us some real thing else just dont give us anything, we will understand n start rolling something else,
I keep saying we r necro we supose to be master of condition, we sacrifice our hp to stack less condition in double time than war thief mages rangers even ?? we out run our auto attack….. and u give heals to the minions that if lucky will last 3 sec ? and we supose to be happy abt one focus skill?

As my friend list is getting more n more grey, the only place people are is mostly wvw, i have all lvl 80 char cept mes n engi, being a fan of necro from gw1 but mayb its time to move to my thief mage or war, cas update after update we getting nothing,

else just put a black lion item that will convert my necro to mesmer xd, that will do

BTW
Necromancer train from spite tree is bugged.

He dont increase range of skill nr 4- “reapers touch” when using focus .
It shal increase range from 900 to 1200, but this skill efective range is still 900.
(when i look on skill it reveal there is range 1200, but they stil hit target at max range 900)
So keep this in mind when usig focus

Relair.1843:

I really wish I had your super-minions Bas. Flesh golem and shadow fiend can’t even survive the trash that cleaves in TA on story mode or the huge veteran karka that lay eggs let alone real dungeon bosses. How exactly do you manage to spread out your ranged minions anyway? I mean you can put wurm wherever but the other 2 stand right next to each other and both eat it at the same time. Usually a few seconds after all the melees have been cleaved to death =/. So at that point you have your flesh wurm still up, and the golem often has a sliver of health left so he gets in a few more whacks before he bites it too on the next aoe.
Its not even so much that they get one shot because their health is decent, its that there are so many things that do repeated constant damage. They get torn to shreds by cleaves and just stand there burning to ashes or dissolving in poison or getting thrashed by some boss spinning attack…you can see it coming and can do absolutely nothing about it. Thats my biggest problem, its infuriating being able to have absolutely no input after you first attack a target. No matter how good you are all you can do is watch them die in the most idiotic ways possible. And then be semi useless for the next 16-48 seconds.
The whole game of guild wars 2 is designed around dodging big hits and staying out of red circles, and they can’t do either. I honestly don’t know how they could even be designed in such a flawed way.

He’s literally the only one who still advocates MM being a totally fine build bar fractals 10+. Obviously his minions are specially made just for him by anet, and he can even control where he wants his minions to go or be or attack. Just like using the WSAD keys for your character. Oh and his minions can dodge so he doesn’t lose them in the plethora of aoes or whatever mishaps. I tried as above.

What can you do?

You know, I’d really love seeing him post every single encounter of his with those examples I’ve given above and see how useful his minions are in those encounters. My point is simple – minions add no value to clearing trash (if they’re trash they are cleared so fast anyway), hardly noticeable in boss fights, and useless while running through an area. They are not viable.

edit – oh and yes, regarding fighting champions, yes they’re back up 24 secs later but guess what, they’ll bite the dust again coz you know, you’re fighting the same dude that wiped them earlier? They can’t learn to do differently the next time. They can’t learn to pull back, they can’t learn to dodge and heal up, they don’t have defensive cd. To say they are useful is laughable. Like I said earlier, I’d have an equally (if not an easier time due to not needing to press more buttons) effective toon playing without utilities and elite at all.

Bas.7406:

Calcifire.1864:

still no attack that may be comparable to a melee cleave though (wtb “Ghastly claws now hits up to three enemies” :<)

but ignoring that, YESS PVE MM

Remembering the fact that Anet said they wanted less cleave and less aoe abilities in game, that change will never happen.

Well necro doesn’t have a cleave so they can’t really take it off of Necro they need to look at other classes for cleave ^^.

I’m curious, should I change my scepter/dagger into scepter/focus or is offhand dagger still a better choice for dungeons dps/support?

Bas does have a point on the minions though. They are utility bar skills, and like other utility bar skills their benefits are temporary.

I don’t think they will ever become all that durable unfotunately.

When I first played the game I used minions and gravitated towards weapons where I liked the hit feel and animation (incuding axe). It’s been a while since I played those and I learned to love conditionmancer. I’m pleased that axe has seen an improvement and the same goes for minions. It means the possibility of more build diversity, and that’s only a good thing.

I compare the necro situation to my ranger, who still has no build diversity and has been stripped of the one reason I considered taking her into in WvW compared with my other characters. So really, I don’t think necros have too much to complain about.

manveruppd.7601:

Rennoko.5731:

80% more healing from the blood fiend!!

Has anyone tested to see if this only affects the siphoning-on-attack it gives you? Or does it affect the base heal as well? Also, is the siphoning also affected by Bloodthirst now?

Only affects the siphoning. But the number doesnt fit in anywhere. Siphon was somewhere at around 260 and is now at 926. The siphon part is unaffected by healing power. The activate is roughly the same at somewhere around 4k healing.
The Blood fiend attacks roughly once every 3 seconds and the healing can be increased with vampiric master and bloodthirst by another 114. So the vampiric master is only a choice if you go all in on minions.

I’m ignoring everyone that is still yet complaining. This patch nearly made me cry in joy. This is the most attention we’ve gotten in months! I hope they’re not done tweaking our class, we still have a few things left to iron out but holy crap am I happy! Thank you Dev Team!

manveruppd.7601:

Rennoko.5731:

80% more healing from the blood fiend!!

Has anyone tested to see if this only affects the siphoning-on-attack it gives you? Or does it affect the base heal as well? Also, is the siphoning also affected by Bloodthirst now?

Wayfarer.2051:

Ca anyone tell me if Vampiric Rituals also affects allies?

IIRC it affects anyone standing in them.

I didn’t check on vamp rituals, but I was under the impression that was self only. Someone can verify for me, but I did state the opposite of this so if I get a chance to check I will.

The on-hit heal from the blood fiend was healing me for just short of 1000 damage in wvw last night. The activated heal (popping the balloon) was still weak, around 4.5k or so. It is amazingly good now, but the problem still remains that if he gets popped at a bad time, you are sitting with no heal for 20 seconds. Not sure it is worth using in WvW still, but that is the worst place for him in general. I plan to use him in PVE for sure now. Oh and NOT effected by Bloodthirst, I did check that. (The blood fiend attack life-steal)

Sadness also that they fixed enfeeble trait, and ignored that MOB on dodge roll still only gives 2 bleeds instead of 3.

@Rennoko: As far as the Blood Fiends pop heal, I agree it’s a little on the weak side but considering that it takes only 2 attacks for the Blood Fiend to recoup the loss to equal Consume Conditions’s base healing, I’d say it’s finally acquired the status of ‘useable healing skill’.

Anyways, I’ve finally tried out the Axe again after my long hiatus from it after the Betas. I gotta say, it’s a kitten good weapon, especially for parties. I also tried running an MM spec on my new P/T/V armor and was VERY happy with the results. I ran AC Path 1 and 2 using it, and though I was having some survival issues against the howler king one of my minions was ALWAYS alive during the Ghost Eater allowing me to tank him while the rest of the party focused on activating the traps.

Also this should be noted that I still don’t have the armor optimally spec’d yet. Was probably gonna go with Rune of the Pack and Zerker or Cleric trinkets, but all in all, was happy with the build. I think the least responsive pets were Bone Minions, but if I was close enough in combat, popping them by me still dead damage so it wasn’t a biggie.

This is also coming from somebody who generally dislikes MM roles.

EDIT: Also should note that I never dipped below 80% hp against Ghost Eater and my blood fiend and golem were usually the longest living minions of the lot.

Retraited for axe/minions and ran them last night; nothing heavy, just light farming to work the new story. I was not sure I could tell the difference in minions, yet, but axe seemed to make quicker work of the low level PvE mobs. I definitely think that, while the profession got buffed, the improvements were more to bring a minion build near to par with a conditionmancer or hybrid build. I plan on going back to running more minions where dps matters more than condition control and also re-evaluating the vitality trait line. How I play Necromancer will certainly change and I foresee a lot of retraiting and armor changes.

Last week I was trying out chillomancer in CM where crowd control and boss skill cool down rate is important and found it has its merits. I like Necromancer specifically for its flexible build and play style options.

Honestly, I hope Arenanet’s next balance patch does something to improve spectral builds. Spectral could be a tank build with lower aggro risk and improved mobility and escape, though with naturally lower damage, if the developers can figure it out.

Those of you wondering about Bas and his minions.

Why not contact him and run a dungeon with him?

Bellamy.9860:

manveruppd.7601:

Rennoko.5731:

80% more healing from the blood fiend!!

Has anyone tested to see if this only affects the siphoning-on-attack it gives you? Or does it affect the base heal as well? Also, is the siphoning also affected by Bloodthirst now?

Only affects the siphoning. But the number doesnt fit in anywhere. Siphon was somewhere at around 260 and is now at 926. The siphon part is unaffected by healing power. The activate is roughly the same at somewhere around 4k healing.
The Blood fiend attacks roughly once every 3 seconds and the healing can be increased with vampiric master and bloodthirst by another 114. So the vampiric master is only a choice if you go all in on minions.

Woah, 926 per hit? That is WAY more than 80%, it sounds more like 600% if it really was 260 before! I assume that’s just its own innate siphon, and the Vampiric Master siphon is separate (the 114 you mentioned), right?

I think that more than makes up for its low base heal. Getting it killed before you can use it is still an issue but you just have to keep your eye on its health bar and pop it before they drop it. The only downside is losing the condition cleansing of Consume.

Anchoku.8142:

Honestly, I hope Arenanet’s next balance patch does something to improve spectral builds. Spectral could be a tank build with lower aggro risk and improved mobility and escape, though with naturally lower damage, if the developers can figure it out.

You see that’s the problem with this game, that every skill fits a particular build best and is suboptimal in every other build. In GW1 you had skills that were mediocre if you actually focussed on the attribute line they came from, but if you took them as a secondary they suddenly became the lynchpin of your skill bar! Like Offering of Blood -no blood necro took it as their elite, but boon prot monks loved it! Or thumperbunnies with all their warrior hammer skills. I know this game is never gonna be THAT customisable, but would it kill them to make skills that can fulfil multiple roles? Or which can be given different effects using traits? I think necromancer staff is a good example of a flexible weapon that can be used in many builds, I’ve seen both power and condition necros using it. Also Blood Is Power, great skill. And I like how Death Shroud can be specced to be used either offensively or defensively (even though, tbh, it’s probably my least favourite class mechanic of any profession in GW2 – transform skills just aren’t that interesting!). But these are the only examples I can think of in necro, most other skills only fit one kind of playstyle.

@Ratphink – Thank you for testing minions out for a logical period of time before erupting in a fit of rage because they died. It sounds like you had a good experience with them. Their siphon health ability is amazing even as a Berzerker geared MM I have a much easier time staying over 20k health a majority of the time. All I ask people is to take the time to test them with an open mind. What minions did you use?

@anchoku – You should give minions a test, run multiple versions, and give them a fair shake. They aren’t perfect, but they are better than some people give them credit for. I have been trying a ds build and it’s a blast, but I die so quickly.

@abelooi – I don’t have super minions. What i have is a basic understanding of what their purpose is and how they do their job. Are they perfect no? Do they work effectively? yes. They are as effective as every other build we have in the situation you described. In fact in a lot of cases they offer more ability. From your comments it seems that it’s more a playstyle issue than a build issue. Those of us who enjoy minions and have spent 100’s of hours messing with them find them to be the better alternative to condition builds, and less need to be perfect as with well builds.

@Rennoko – I used Blood Feind in tournaments last night. It is significantly better than what it was, but I am not sure it’s worth losing Consume Conditions. The bigger heal used when I need it combined with the condition cleanse is very strong. I did survive significantly longer with 3 people hitting on me.

@Manuver – The original base heal was 185 it is now 926. 185 to 926 is a 80 percent jump. As a sales guy, I know my profit margins. Think of it this way, you are selling something for 926 that cost you 185 you just made an 80 percent profit margin. It’s very simple take 926 and multiply it by .20 that gives you 185 all they did was take 185 divide it by .2 and that gave them an 80 percent jump.

You know we have been complaining of limited availability of viable builds….I think this patch is a good start to make some of the previously less attractive builds more viable…

BUT…..

is it a prelude, just so we have at least some viability, to diminishing the condition/AoE builds in their toning down of AoE in the future?

I don’t know, and it is maybe the skeptical auditor in me, but I am always wary of “free” gifts. I hope I am wrong.

It comes down to communication again…these little “surprises” make it seem like Christmas each month, but where are we actually going? especially on the AoE front.

@Bas: My dislike for MMing stems a bit from GW1 where MM’s were really just glorified babysitters. Spamming enchantments on yourself and sporadically remembering to cast death nova one of your meat sacks was tedious and boring for me. Sure it looked cool as hell, but it was also annoying as all hell if you died or couldn’t respec into something else when it came to endgame boss fights (Lich, Shiro, Abbadon, Urgoz, Kanaxai, Grape Ape Mallyx, Dhuum… all of these boss fights were impossible to MM in due to no corpse to rebuild/build. So between being a largely ‘niche’ PvE role, and one I’ve found dubiously boring, well… you can imagine why I’d be unthrilled about the prospect of ever doing it in GW2. All things considered, AI can still get tweaked a little, but all in all, it’s a decent build.