Guild Wars 2

Going with the nature of a warhorn, buffing allies.

My suggestion:
Change warhorn skills to [Order of Vampire] and [Order of Undeath].

Or something like that.

I can give more detail if this even makes it to devs

The warhorn is actually in a very good place, it is selfish, but that is fine because it is effective. It gives one of our only sources of scaling defense in the LF regen of locust swarm. Wail of doom is also really useful. They could add a blast finisher to wail of doom, but otherwise I wouldn’t change this weapon. Necros could get group support from other places, traits, and utilities for instance.

They have no party support utilities.

The Human Stick.9310:

They have no party support utilities.

That’s why we’ll most likely get shouts.

Well, there’s always the odd chance that those shouts are engineered to harm enemies rather than buffing allies, given our overall theme. It’s still a form of support, though, just not straight forward like the other classes.

I’m betting we get slow/taunt shout, a resistance/stability shout, a quickness shout maybe etc

The Human Stick.9310:

They have no party support utilities.

You didn’t get it, necro warhorn is already good, so changing it to give group support when we have utilities and traits that are bad and need reworks isn’t productive. Anet’s effort would be better spent to buff utilities and traits to give support instead of reworking two skills that are already quite good in their respective roles.

Shouts can be made to buff allies’ ability to harm enemies, which is very likely because of Orders, and would be great support.

As for warhorn, the only change I’d really make to it is maybe a blast finisher on 4, and changing the locusts to not deal damage unless you are already in combat (so they don’t put you in combat when you run past some boxes).

Oh snap, it would be so baller if we got shouts but they were spun to be like GW1 Orders. Order of the Vampire, Order of Pain… That would be awesome.

Bhawb.7408:

Shouts can be made to buff allies’ ability to harm enemies, which is very likely because of Orders, and would be great support.

As for warhorn, the only change I’d really make to it is maybe a blast finisher on 4, and changing the locusts to not deal damage unless you are already in combat (so they don’t put you in combat when you run past some boxes).

This.

So your saying you would rather have a silence and a bs pbaoe skill, than 2 ally buffs that could buff minions and allies with lifesteal and more damage?

lol

The Human Stick.9310:

So your saying you would rather have a silence and a bs pbaoe skill, than 2 ally buffs that could buff minions and allies with lifesteal and more damage?

lol

So your saying you’d rather change two skills that work perfectly well, instead of buffing stuff that is bad.

LOL

The only thing that is “BAD” is the AI of minions. Nothing else is bad cause bad is subjective. Im asking for skill changes like they did back in gw1. Im not asking for buffs and nerfs. I want balance. Thats what makes a good game. Balanced classes.

Most of the stuff I see on these forums are just kids wanting to be the most powerful thing on earth. Just op op op.

I want balanced classes. Skill changes. If they do this change, which I doubt, I would want them to make it a fair change.

The Human Stick.9310:

The only thing that is “BAD” is the AI of minions. Nothing else is bad cause bad is subjective. Im asking for skill changes like they did back in gw1. Im not asking for buffs and nerfs. I want balance. Thats what makes a good game. Balanced classes.

The Necromancer’s Warhorn skills are balanced in their current form. If you truly only want balance, then you’ll take everyone else’s cue when we say that Warhorn shouldn’t change.

I’m so tired of the, bad is subjective argument. Sure it is subjective, but my subjective opinion on what is bad is based on objective facts. It is an objective fact that many necro utilities underperform in comparison to others when you attribute performance to variables like dps, hps, boon uptime, and condition uptime.

I would also argue good games are not made because of balanced classes. Games are far more successful for being fun than for being balanced.

Sure there are a bunch of people who just want blatantly OP stuff, but there is also a lot of people that want really dumb changes to things that already work, while ignoring things that don’t.

Our argument came about because you want changes to skills that both fit the necromancer theme, and work effectively in mid to high tier play. I want stuff to be reasonably balanced too, but your asking for changes to something that is balanced and works reasonably well already. Maybe if everything else on necros worked well than that would make sense, but there are a ton of necro traits, weapons skills, and utilities that are objectively bad. They are objectively bad because they underperform numerically in comparison to what other classes in this game can do. I would much rather see the developers invest time into these things, that don’t work currently, than putting their time into fixing something that already works.

@The Human Stick: Are you being serious? Because judging from the stuff you wrote and the way you present it here, I doubt you´ve thoroughly read even half of what people have been suggesting in all of those threads (note: “suggesting”, nothing proposed here is definite…).
Besides that, you claim you are not asking for “buffs and nerfs” but “balance”. That doesn´t make sense at all, unless we have a radically different understanding of what the words “balance, buff and nerf” mean in a video-game context =P

Anyways, back on topic.

I think Warhorn is in a very good spot as is. Both skills have clear functionalities and are utilized effectively in all kinds of builds (condi, power and everything in between).
A buff to the #4 skill wouldn´t hurt of course. Tweaking the cone-like shape of the attack so that you can hit people right in front of you more consistently and adding a blast finisher, as already suggested multiple times, seem reasonable to me.

Other than that I consider the weapon to be absolutely fine.

No, things can be objectively bad, save all this subjective crap for tumblr.

Bhawb.7408:

Shouts can be made to buff allies’ ability to harm enemies, which is very likely because of Orders, and would be great support. ).

This already exists. It’s called venoms and it’s terrible.

Warhorn 4 could use a blast finisher.

Warhorn 5 is ok as long as the Devs realize that Warhorn 5 sucks as mobility and they still need to address mobility for necromancer even though Warhorn 5 exists.

Bhawb.7408:

Shouts can be made to buff allies’ ability to harm enemies, which is very likely because of Orders, and would be great support.

As for warhorn, the only change I’d really make to it is maybe a blast finisher on 4, and changing the locusts to not deal damage unless you are already in combat (so they don’t put you in combat when you run past some boxes).

Imho shouts, if necro gets them, should have both an effect on allies aswell as on enemies, like the mesmer wells. Eg. “Rending Shriek” : Damage + Bleed in a cone infront of the Necro, + give bleeding and cripple to allies within a radius of X.

The thing that annoys me about the Warhorn 5 is the DoT attached to it when it hits something while your trying to just run thru and it slows you down.

They should just make ours like the Rangers warhorn in Halloween mode. Instead of birds its bats and at the end they are covered in ectoplasm which cripples and torments. Then Warhorn 5 is a blast finisher and if the wielder is a Charr it blasts x 4 times. Why? Because Charr.

nekretaal.6485:

This already exists. It’s called venoms and it’s terrible.

And that has everything to do with the way the build works, and not the idea of offensive support.

Bhawb.7408:

nekretaal.6485:

This already exists. It’s called venoms and it’s terrible.

And that has everything to do with the way the build works, and not the idea of offensive support.

Venoms in GvG/squad/TDM are pretty good actually. It’s just not a “solo queue/roaming” spec.

Sagat.3285:

Bhawb.7408:

nekretaal.6485:

This already exists. It’s called venoms and it’s terrible.

And that has everything to do with the way the build works, and not the idea of offensive support.

Venoms in GvG/squad/TDM are pretty good actually. It’s just not a “solo queue/roaming” spec.

Also, venoms are getting a pretty big buff in the upcoming patch with some traits being made baseline.

It seems like everyones arguments from this is solely based on pvp.
Thats what always happens when I ask people about the classes is that they always bring up how skills are in WvW and PvP and GvG.

Maybe Im asking to change skills for the PvE aspect. Changing the warhorn for a more supportive role in PvE. Such as “Orders.”

But its cool. Ive lost all hope for the people in this game. All they care about is PvP and WvW, and it shows here.

The Human Stick.9310:

Maybe Im asking to change skills for the PvE aspect. Changing the warhorn for a more supportive role in PvE. Such as “Orders.”

But its cool. Ive lost all hope for the people in this game. All they care about is PvP and WvW, and it shows here.

You see, we are with you that necro needs support, even for pve. But asking for nerfs is not what necros need right now.

Just hold out until we get shouts. Maybe Anet’ll give us some decent group support with our elite spec.

/fingersCrossed

Shiki.7148:

Imho shouts, if necro gets them, should have both an effect on allies aswell as on enemies, like the mesmer wells. Eg. “Rending Shriek” : Damage + Bleed in a cone infront of the Necro, + give bleeding and cripple to allies within a radius of X.

I’m dying this is too good.

Except Warhorn is great in every game mode. It is literally almost perfect, its the closest thing to perfect we have. Its useful on condi and power builds, its great in glass cannon and tanky builds, it has a great interrupt, LF gain, damage, swiftness, it works in every gamemode both in combat and to get you around faster. Its actually amazing, why would you go and change one of our best set of skills?

Im laughing so hard right now. Cause I know some of you have never played GW1.

Im talking about a MECHANIC CHANGE so you cant say its a nerf or a buff. That argument is completely invalid.

Asking for a change of mechanics that work perfectly fine is nonsensical.

The Human Stick.9310:

Im laughing so hard right now. Cause I know some of you have never played GW1.

Im talking about a MECHANIC CHANGE so you cant say its a nerf or a buff. That argument is completely invalid.

You are asking to kitten with one of our best weapons in the game, which is stupid. If it isn’t broken don’t kitten with it.

The Human Stick.9310:

Im laughing so hard right now. Cause I know some of you have never played GW1.

Im talking about a MECHANIC CHANGE so you cant say its a nerf or a buff. That argument is completely invalid.

GW1 doesn’t matter this is GW2. Your being really dumb cause you want something to change that doesn’t need changing. There is a plethora of skills on necro that do, but these aren’t them. Warhorn is a great weapon in every single gametype, but you want to change it so you can get a few skills you want. That’s really dumb, and really selfish when there are tons of reworks that ACTUALLY NEED TO HAPPEN.

Better idea would be to suggest your new skills on a brand new weapon. :P

Leave warhorn alone!

out of all our weapons, this weapon is our most solid, as it does what it needs to do, and does it well. I use it on power builds, and sometimes on condi builds. I cannot see it getting any better other than “maybe” giving it a blast on #4 (woudl be useful, along with axe 3).

If you wanted to make things interesting, it would be cool if they allowed warhorn 5, with a trait (maybe the power focused curses trait) allow 5 allies to become covered in a plague as well, granting them regen, while we were granted an additional spike increase in life force regen.

Bhawb.7408:

Shouts can be made to buff allies’ ability to harm enemies, which is very likely because of Orders, and would be great support.

As for warhorn, the only change I’d really make to it is maybe a blast finisher on 4, and changing the locusts to not deal damage unless you are already in combat (so they don’t put you in combat when you run past some boxes).

This is something I have been calling for from the start. I like Locust swarm aside from the incidental force into combat. In sPvP there are fewer objects to have this happen but, in PvE and WvW this skill has to be managed carefully.

If it was modified to not force us into combat on objects or non-aggro creatures unless we are already in combat, it would be a perfect skill in my opinion.

This is wishful thinking though. Hopefully the re-work for HoT will give us some of the most desired things we need to get into favor outside of WvW, but I am not confident on this at all. I have largely accepted the fate of Necros in GW2 as unloved by our parents by this point.